[TW5] Presenting Cards Experiment: Master- and Sub-Tiddlers (Alpha)

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi folks,

Inspired by several posts here in the group I tried something new and have an ALPHA version ready now, working on larger screens (not tuned for phones yet).

https://tid.li/tw5/test/cards.html

The original idea was to create (shareable) learning cards with an A and a B side, where a question/word could be on side A and the answer/translation on side B. For this my solution creates and administrates two linked tiddlers ... Thus the content of both sides is findable via standard search, as it is stored in the text fields of tiddlers.

Other ideas for using linked tiddlers could be presentations (slides, speaker notes) or quotes (cited text, source details) and many more.

Strengths

• simplified interface for entering content and tag-administration
  
• Try and hide the sidebar!
  
• linked tiddlers (master/slave)
• this could be expanded for more than one sub-tiddlers (e.g. for slide content, speaker notes, sources)
• several buttons that handle master- and sub-tiddlers at the same time (create, inactivate/activate, delete)
• automagically created unique titles
  
• Cards Manager (based on Listreveal plugin) to search/filter by tags
  
• packaged as a plugin (DuoCard)
  

Weaknesses

• not mobile first yet
• reference to next tiddler is only a letter (a title could make things easier)
  
• no reference to previous tiddler
• delete-button does not ask "are you sure ...?" 
  
• everything could change for the next version.
  
• tag-management-buttons in the list change ALL active/inactive cards (not only the filtered ones from the list)

Ideas, Missing features

• a button to add another side
• a view to see both/all sides at once
• a list view limited to A-sides/B-sides
  

Questions

• Do you think a tool like this could be needed? Would you use it?
• Is the caption needed? (the field pre-populated with A or B)
• does it have to be editable?
  
• Do you see things that could be better/simpler?
• Do you miss something?

Feedback is very welcome, I might be slow to respond though.

All the best!

Thomas

By the way: The demo uses a new (improved) version of my Listreveal plugin, official updates for Listreveal and ToDoNow will follow.

[David Gifford]

Cool! Put this in the toolmap under Educational aids.

[Mat]

Nice!

IMO you use two sides of a card IRL is for practical reasons, ie to ensure the answer is never lost and also so it is hidden when reading the question. IDL (In digital life) we don't need the compromises from IRL so the IRL limitation that you cannot see the question while you peek at the answer is not unavoidable. My point is; it would be better to merely have the answer slide out below the question so that is is simple to review the question as you're reading the answer.

Just my opinion.

Another thing, that goes beyond this particular application: I imagine one would want to create several Q/A's in one go. And when using them, one does typically *not* want to create new Q/As. So, maybe it would make sense to have a global edit mode where you open tiddlers that are editable right away, i.e no "click edit button". Then, turn off edit mode and everything is only viewable.

<:-)

[Diego Mesa]

Hey Thomas,

This seems intimately related to the Anki+TiddlyWiki plugin that Simon and I have been working on! 

http://anwiki.tiddlyspot.com/

Perhaps we can join/consolidate? 

What do you think?

Best,

Diego 

On Sunday, April 29, 2018 at 3:15:34 PM UTC-5, Thomas Elmiger wrote:

[Mark S.]

It's looks beautiful and suspiciously like TODONOW. Is there going to be a next stage, where it tracks whether you got it right (preferably from 1-5 scale) ?

-- Mark

[TonyM]

Thomas,

I like where this is going, however I am personally not so interested in quizes or flash cards (perhaps I should) what I am interested is building sophisticated yet simple workflow documentation or instructions, even following a recipe. Some variation of this may be well on it way to a list of steps with checkbox and information capture.

Regards

Tony

[Mohammad]

Wonderful Thomas!
For me this is great to be used as slide notes or in lecture!

Keep going on

[Jan]

Hi Thomas, hi Simon,
great to see that you two work on this issue which is extremely useful for education.
I would love to have a muuri card system that looks like this
https://codepen.io/RuudBurger/pen/bwjry

Yours Jan

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[Mark S.]

That's starting to sound like a Wizard ...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas

I'm limiting my comments here to its use as a "Learning Card" / "Flash Card" system. For that I suggest (not in anyway ruling out other apps & variations) ...

-- The "Front" and the "Back" are displayed at exactly the same size.

-- That the "Front" & "Back" are never displayed at the same time. Rather one replaces the other.

The need to flip between them enhances the learning process. The identical sizing gets distraction out of the way. 

-- That the interface of the card is minimal (perhaps an edit button, but nothing much more). "Just the facts mam" :-).

All as if they were physical (for the "Learning Card" aspect), since it is a proven method.

Thomas ...

• Do you think a tool like this could be needed? Would you use it?

1 - For language learning I would.

2 - For creating questions for film-students, I might. It looks promising.

Best wishes for what looks like the beginning of another of your great implementations.

Josiah

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hey Mark,

No wonder the Card Manager looks like ToDoNow, they are both based on Listreveal. 

I have no plans to track „right“ answers at the moment. The only thing I speculated about is to save „done“ dates as they are registered in ToDoNow (a series of timestamps in a field). But that would require an additional button (done) and I don’t want to clutter the interface. 

Another direction I imagined is to develop a writers tool where you can have text paragraphs or chapters on one side of rhe card and keep your authors notes on the other. 

There were several posts here in the group about drafts and outlines for longer texts. – I think an even more reduced story view filled with cards could be a great authors tool where you can juggle with paragraphs without thinking about unique tiddler titles. 

As you see now: other concepts seem more appealing to me than quizzes. 

But please feel free to adopt my stuff and create them yourself ;–)

Cheers,

Thomas 

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hey Diego and Simon,

I will have to take another look at Anki – but please feel free to adopt my stuff if any of it seems useful to you.

If there are specific features you need help to integrate, please ask. 

As you can see from my answer to Mark S., quizzes are not my first priority though. 

All the best,

Thomas

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[TonyM]

Yes, I would look good in a Murri lay out to gradually reeal.answers.

A bit like pick a box and other game shows.

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hello again,

There is a new version you can try on https://tid.li/tw5/test/flippy.html – inspired by feedback from this thread, mostly Jan and Josiah but also many others.

Important improvements:

– nice card design and flipping effect (thanks, Jan!)

– everything should be keyboard controllable (tab and space ...)

– optional next/previous navigation

– configuration tab (set card height, activate next/previous navigation)

Still pending (amongst others):

– global edit mode (great idea, Mat!)

– better usability on mobile

Thank you all for the kind words and the inspiring feedback! I will answer Josiah’s statements shortly too, as I agree with most of it and included some ideas in the update.

Cheers and have a great week!

Thomas

Am Montag, 30. April 2018 17:27:25 UTC+2 schrieb @TiddlyTweeter:

Ciao Thomas

I'm limiting my comments here to its use as a "Learning Card" / "Flash Card" system. For that I suggest (not in anyway ruling out other apps & variations) ...

-- The "Front" and the "Back" are displayed at exactly the same size.

They are now. And because optimal sizes can differ from user to user and from screen to screen, it is configurable.

 

-- That the "Front" & "Back" are never displayed at the same time. Rather one replaces the other.

Still the case. Although I completely agree with Mat on the usefulness of the slideout case (for other learning/writing contexts) – maybe we can cover that variant in another version.

The need to flip between them enhances the learning process. The identical sizing gets distraction out of the way. 

-- That the interface of the card is minimal (perhaps an edit button, but nothing much more). "Just the facts mam" :-).

I tried to remove the interface from the card and place it around the card. Acceptable?

Best wishes for what looks like the beginning of another of your great implementations.

A polished solution is always very time consuming and I have other hobbies :)
So anyone who has time to further develop/integrate some of my code into new variants or other solutions: Go for it!

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Thomas

Small issue. Once you in "inline edit" mode the option to "-- open full editor" is itself NOT active. The pen IS, but not text. Here is a clip that hopefully makes clearer what does NOT respond on click (the yellow). I'm on FF 52, Win 7, 64-bit.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Maybe part of that issue is about having TWO different icons? One for "inline edit" and another for "full editor"? I don't think the added text as is works. It breaks the minimalism, I think? BUT, I haven't yet thought of what two icons would work. Closest I came so far was the "pen symbol" with a plus sign next to it for the "full edit".

UPDATE: Looking at it again, why don't you use the "lock" to enable "inline edit"? even on individually displayed "cards"? And then let the "full-edit" icon inside indicate if you need it?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

It looks lovely!

It might be that I don't understand the use-case. But as a pedagogical tool, there needs to be a way to deploy a group of cards at once. Currently you have to edit, and then close each card to put it in the story (or study) river.

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

When you tag a card, it's twin doesn't get tagged. Having both tagged at the same time would be useful for exporting cards. Assuming we're thinking of an Anki-like system where sets of cards will be shared among users.

-- Mark

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hey Mark

Thank you for the feedback! See my comments below. 

Cheers,

Thomas

'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> schrieb am Mi. 9. Mai 2018 um 01:34:

When you tag a card, it's twin doesn't get tagged.

You are right. 

Having both tagged at the same time would be useful for exporting cards.

Yes: useful for export. No: not necessarily at the same time :) If you would filter cards with a certain tag for other purposes, it would be enough to find all the A-sides. 

So I made the two buttons below the „active“ list in the Card Manager to add/remove tags to/from B-sides. 

Assuming we're thinking of an Anki-like system where sets of cards will be shared among users.

We are thinking along the same lines. 

-- Mark

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