https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SB06s13tj8P3cC2UewnfzXf08UQ7jwYK/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLESm6OIfHsScwYePGOs5ce3o3wpQ0CO/view?usp=drivesdk
- everything except the dragging is keyboard driven
- each bullet is a separate tiddler. Lots of different pros and cons to this approach, but was ideal for a task manager.
- this is all in wikitext, no extra JS.
Will post the file in the near future, a bit more clean up needed. Don't expect a final product, but rather a pattern to follow that would hopefully help anyone wanting to implement similar workflow.
Cheers,
Saq
- bullets can be multiline.
- you can drag and drop bullets between "bullet list tiddlers". This moves a bullet from one tiddler to another.
- you can hold down Ctrl when dragging to another tiddler to copy it rather than move it.
- holding down shift when dragging transcludes the contents of a bullet rather than moving or copying it.
- it works around some of the annoyances in the core draggable list links macro, where for each item there are two positions it can be dragged to that don't actually result in a change of position.
Currently the relationship between a bullet and its children is based on fields as per my needs in my task manager. This could definitely be simplified from what it is now.
Also note that modelling each bullet as a tiddler means thought needs to be given to tags, backlinks etc as the parent tiddler itself has no body. For my use case this was fine but for general purpose text it may limit the usefulness of filter lookups.
My goal is to add comments to the wikitext macros, as time and energy allows, and then post the file for everyone to play with. Since this is all in wikitext, it means that any TW user, developer or not, can try to make a generalized solution out of it.
Unless of course, Joshua beats us all to it :)
If its not systematic I will debug my computer/ browser.
Regards
Tony
- you can hold down Ctrl when dragging to another tiddler to copy it rather than move it.
Tiddlers with the bullet functionality are identified via the presence of a field.
If the field is present and there are no bullets, there is an text area to get you started.
[...]In fact I rarely use the classic edit mode in any of my TW.
1) You say each bullet is a tiddler. Are we seeing/editing in the present tiddler the text field of that other tiddler? Some other field?
2) Is it possible to add basic text formatting / links / html span classes, etc to the text entered in a bullet? (I understand the problem you refer to re: links. My question is about [[]] within the bullet, leading to a normal tiddler)
3) Bigger question: could your system conceivably be adapted so that instead of creating an entire new tiddler for each bullet, you would create a new field of the present tiddler? I am thinking of filesize issues and also what you mention about tagging.
4) Have you thought about making this a special tiddler type?
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Saq Imtiaz wrote:Tiddlers with the bullet functionality are identified via the presence of a field....so... how was the field added?
So, those tiddlers are reserved to be bullet lists then, right?
[...]In fact I rarely use the classic edit mode in any of my TW.For this particular feature, right? I mean, what if you want something other than bullet lists?
If this "method" could be generalized so that any item, based on a tiddler, could be presented in indentable lists we could make even cooler stuff ;-)
Imagine a checkbox list for projects (top level in list) with tasks as subitems. ...and project status (i.e checked or unchecked) could be calculated from subitem status. The super part would be your feature to easily move items among projects or even make projects into subprojects.
...and this would perhaps also open for... whatsitcalled... expandable text like in most real code editors. Instead of bullet it's the reveal type + character.
That's fine, I suppose I was happy to publish my reoccurring tasks algorithm again.
Never the less I would love to see you implement this. If you do so I would hope it included the ability to provide a template to new tiddlers, but that may be tricky.
I would also be keen if the listed items, the to do list items you click drag and drop also permitted additions to the list template. After all they are just tiddlers. What I mean is most list items in tiddlywiki eventually use the or a listitem template. Perhaps this is where you may make changes to support this method but is also a great place to extend features. For example one could add an open in new window button alongside the listed item, or click to view contents of the item.
What you illustrated is the closest I have seen to a real outliner which is a powerful way to capture structured and unstructured ideas and information. I would like to see it extensible or hackable because it can be an engine that drives alot.
Regards
Tony
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1. I would love to know, from the three or four of you working on similar ideas at the same time: what was your inspiration to do this?
You might all want to be thinking now about whether there will be a way to copy multiple nodes from one tiddler and paste them in a separate tiddler...select and right click? Select and copy?
Not sure if it was received. Let me know if you would like to collaborate and work on one plugin together, instead of duplicating effort.
... what was your inspiration to do this?
2. I would recommend not using 'Dynalist' as the plugin name.
3. Also, please avoid using 'table of contents' or 'outline' in the name. That will greatly limit the imagination of users. In fact, This has many possibilities:
David,... what was your inspiration to do this?I was inspired by TiddlyBlink that if TiddlyWiki could work like Roam Research, it could certainly mimic the much simpler Dynalist. On the other hand, while getting acquainted with the Zettelkasten method, I realized that the TiddlyWiki lacks easy handling of bullet points.2. I would recommend not using 'Dynalist' as the plugin name.
Én sem terveztem ennek a névnek a használatát, de a fejlesztés alatt megfelel, hogy valamilyen névvel tudjak hivatkozni a plugin-ra.
3. Also, please avoid using 'table of contents' or 'outline' in the name. That will greatly limit the imagination of users. In fact, This has many possibilities:Thanks for the usage ideas, I didn't even think about them, I'll definitely put them in the documentation!
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Please ask if I / we can help.
It highlights a need to increase the opportunity to "brain dump" when thinking, creating or taking notes in class, into tiddlywiki.
I think we could develop the approach of easy brain keyboard tiddlywiki in other areas as well.
Regards
Tony
5. It will be interesting to experiment on seeing how well these projects might integrate with backlinks a la Stroll. That is, will an outline node be related somehow to its parent tiddler? To its parent node? Both? Neither? Will there be benefit in opening the tiddler of a node in order to see its list of references? Might nodes serve as links in a chain between two tiddlers, like the notes in my Idea Stew do?
I've been a bit indisposed and not able to work on this for about a week, but hope to get the ball rolling again.
Regards,
Saq
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Regards,
Saq
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to it big time.
But health first
Tony
- Ability to edit an item directly (tap, type), instead of needing to open the item (tap, type, close)
- Ability to drag items around, re-nest etc.
- everything except the dragging is keyboard driven
Hi Dave,
- Enabling the edit toolbar would be quite easy. It's just that it causes more disorientation when switching to editing because of the space it takes up and makes the interface look cluttered. It could be a configurable setting though.
- Escape key cancels the edit, see Keyboard Shortcuts
- Not sure why you couldn't add a multiline code block.
- Ditto for tables. Also from "Keyboard Shortcuts": hit shift+enter for a line break
- I haven't understood the comparison to Dynalist, or dragging a system tiddler.
Cheers,
Saq
On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 9:43:00 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:Hi SaqWooww!!!I played with it and uploaded it, to give you feedback: https://giffmex.org/experiments/bulletsgifftest.html
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Hi Dave,
- Enabling the edit toolbar would be quite easy. It's just that it causes more disorientation when switching to editing because of the space it takes up and makes the interface look cluttered. It could be a configurable setting though.
- Escape key cancels the edit, see Keyboard Shortcuts
- Not sure why you couldn't add a multiline code block.
Ditto for tables. Also from "Keyboard Shortcuts": hit shift+enter for a line break
- I haven't understood the comparison to Dynalist, or dragging a system tiddler.
In Dynalist, when you want to split a line of text, you insert cursor at desired split location, and hit enter to drop the text found to the right of the cursor down to a new line.
This is a prototype. Do not use it for anything important.
Major changes are likely that will make it very difficult to migrate your content to newer versions.
No support is available for content migration.
Please take the time to read through the information provided in the demo, it will make any feedback provided more helpful.
Demo:(note that this is under active development so the demo may not always be up to date. For latest changes look at the code repository)Code:
Exciting. I only have mobile today so can't experiment but looking forward to it.
I just wanted to mention mark recently published an inline edit tool where content entered in the view template can be split into subtiddlers.
I think it could possibly inform your solution, perhaps integrate the features.
Regards
Tony
How do i indent another level under the bullet points?
refactor to use macro parameters to initialize different types of bullets: paragraphs, to do items, comments etc.
In your Roadmap you mentioned:refactor to use macro parameters to initialize different types of bullets: paragraphs, to do items, comments etc.
I wouldn't go with different types of bullet tiddlers. I'd go with "icon" and "color" fields instead. TW already knows about those elements and can nicely handle them.
- do nothing and use an external plugin like Relink (current situation, but its a non trivial plugin dependency)
- make a core pull request to get a rename tiddler hook that is usable (the current one isnt) and handle the rename updates
- rework all relationships between tiddlers to be based on UUIDs rather than tiddler titles. This is entirely doable and would be rename resilient, at the cost of longer and more complex code. The mapping from child tiddler to parent is already UUID based, the reverse could be as well, it just makes lookups harder.
- Use the "list" field and the core ability to update... except that we will at some point clash with other things (like tags) using this field as well.
I would prefer to have the option to leave the tags untouched and thus usable for other purposes.
The idea that a user is forced to give a Title to every tiddler seems to go against the principle of allowing tiddlers to be the smallest units of content.
The Name could still be the Title (if it exists within the Tiddler), or the first few words within the tiddler. The user could also change it to whatever they want.
This is just an overview of my idea... I can explain further if you'd like. As I mentioned, I'm currently mocking this up. But would be good to know what you guys think about it, so I know what makes sense and what doesn't!
For the MindMap, if you code it I will make sure it works with this part ;)I have to admit I don't have much motivation in that direction as I have never personally found such visual aids very helpful... you know how it is, we all think and learn in different ways.
One of the things I would love to get feedback on, is how to handle tiddlers being renamed.If a child tiddler is renamed, it vanishes from the bullet list as the reference saved in a field in the parent is no longer accurate.
Possible options are:
- do nothing and use an external plugin like Relink (current situation, but its a non trivial plugin dependency)
- Use the "list" field and the core ability to update... except that we will at some point clash with other things (like tags) using this field as well.
I would prefer to have the option to leave the tags untouched and thus usable for other purposes.
- do nothing and use an external plugin like Relink (current situation, but its a non trivial plugin dependency)
I agree with this strategy but wonder if a relink equivalent should be introduced to the core, as fundamental as it is, even if it is selectable.
Wouldn't making the bullet text the tiddler title make more sense?
I say this because here's the use case i had imagined for this:
I will have a single tiddler that will display a logical structure of how all my tiddlers are arranged, what is connected to what; sort of like TiddlyMap but with bulleted list. It'd also be a way better alternative to creating a contents tab.
@Birthe I am generally terrible at names. Whether it be projects, macros or methods. I'd like to avoid the use of the terms Tiddly and Tiddler as they seem overused and somewhat redundant for something that can only exist inside of TiddlyWiki. The stream part refers more to the experience of writing quickly and easily rather than the structure.. but the name was always meant to be a temporary working name. Please keep the suggestions coming.
Edited (30/05/2020)This is a prototype. Do not use it for anything important.
Major changes are likely that will make it very difficult to migrate your content to newer versions.
No support is available for content migration.Demo:Code:---When I'm under the weather I tend to prototype. Spent some time reworking code from my eternally in progress task manager in an attempt to make it more general purpose, as a bullet list note taking tool that may be of utility to others.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SB06s13tj8P3cC2UewnfzXf08UQ7jwYK/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SLESm6OIfHsScwYePGOs5ce3o3wpQ0CO/view?usp=drivesdk
- everything except the dragging is keyboard driven
- each bullet is a separate tiddler. Lots of different pros and cons to this approach, but was ideal for a task manager.
- this is all in wikitext, no extra JS.Will post the file in the near future, a bit more clean up needed. Don't expect a final product, but rather a pattern to follow that would hopefully help anyone wanting to implement similar workflow.
Cheers,
Saq