NoteSelf mobile app ( well, kind of)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

On their continuous effort to deliver cutting edge features to you, the NoteSelf team (formerly known as just me :D) is delighted to announce that NoteSelf online edition is now an offline-first experience.

This means that you will be able to use the online edition even if you are offline, isn't that mind-blowing ? 

Wait, there is more! 

Being an offline-first application allows you to use NoteSelf like a native mobile app. This mean that you can have it on your app launcher with it's own icon, that it will appear on your list of opened/recent apps and some other features restricted to native applications.

Hey, hey, hey, I want this! Fine, this is how:

1. navigate to noteself.github.io/online with a compatible browser
2. open your browsers options and select "add to home screen" (text may vary depending on language and browser version)
3. you will see something similar to the below image (sorry it is on spanish)

      4. NoteSelf can now live along with the test of your apps! (pic below)

      5. it even has a beautiful (depending on your likings) splash screen!

The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and Opera so far, Firefox is on the way. The offline capabilities should work on a wider range of of browsers.

This have several advantages over the offline version:

• Allways up to date. Don't worry anymore about updating, the online version is allways the latest version!
• Direct access from your launcher with a recognizable icon
• Easier to use: because we rely on web standards the user experience is delightful. For some reason mobile browser vendors doesn't like opening local html files and opening them can become a tedious task. Sometimes its is just not possible.

Hope you enjoy this new feature as much as I do , at the end I'm the main user of NoteSelf :)

[Mat]

Danielo kickin' ass as usual! :-D

 

The supported browsers for the native app experience are chrome and...

 

On my a-few-years-old samsung mobile the page only loads some 70% in Chrome, so nothing shows. I do get it to load fully with the native samsung browser.

 

This means that you will be able to use the online edition even if you are offline, isn't that mind-blowing ? 

I barely understand what it means.

 

app launcher with it's own icon,

That's really cool! I didn't realize browsers feature this.

<:-)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Mat,.. Was that your first time opening Noteself from chrome? Or maybe you have opened it before? Sometimes the automatic update process can get messy, I think I will disable it for the next release

Regarding the offline thing, hope the following video helps you understand the concept (please ignore the audio)

https://youtu.be/WO2iCBKvx4I

[Mat]

Hello Mat,.. Was that your first time opening Noteself from chrome?

On my phone, yes.

 

Thanks for video link. Will watch tonight.

<:-)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hey Mat, don't forget to come back with your impressions :)

[Mat]

Hey Mat, don't forget to come back with your impressions :)

Heh, a funny thing happened: To try out installing a plugin, I installed the plugin "Documentation from tiddlywiki.com". If I understand, this overwrites both the Default tiddlers and the GettingStarted tiddler... which means I can then not re-access the Noteself GettingStarted tiddler! The Revisions feature in GettingStarted also does not show anything. Had to uninstall the docs plugin to access the NoteSelf GettingStarted again.

...

In fiddling with the above, I clicked the site subtitle which opens the Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database. 

IMO the tab label should be "NoteSelf" instead of "TiddlyPouch" - I don't want to have to learn more terminology/names and the tab content is only(?) relevant for the NoteSelf context anyway.

...

There the overlapping info in 

GettingStarted

Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database

Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics

...this is a bit confusing, mostly because the same info is presented differently. 

Actually, as an end user, where the data is stored even more belongs under the Ctrlpanel>Savings tab.

...

Bigger issue:

In GettingStarted it says

 You can have as many notebooks as you want. Just change the Notebook Name , save and reload. 

This triggers the "download, save to local drive" process which does not seem correct - or? I was hoping it would just magically create and save to a new browser db. This does not work for me in chrome nor FF. (Win10.)

...actually, how is it even possible for the system to know if clicking standard save button should mean create a new selfnote db or download local copy (or even upload to a tiddlyspot if such data is filled in)?

...

E.g for FAQ:

What "browser stuff" (cache, cookies, history...) is safe to clear out without affecting my NoteSelf data?

What about browser "Incognito mode".

...

Taking a step back to evaluate the situation, I realize that I have some hesitation with using SelfNote because a lot still seems so magical.

I see super potential in this tho.

<:-)

[Josiah]

Ciao Danielo

I think its a BRILLIANT piece of work.

I don't use mobile phones much and its not my main interest. My main interest is how the PouchDB mechanism works as a potential saving mechanism across all browsers and device types. AND that PouchDB is superb for multi device syncing with a cloud IF you want that too. THAT is really exciting: (1) To see the possibility of a standard "out-of-the-box", easy local saving mechanism PLUS (2) reliable cloud based multi-device sync.

Whilst there are several current, interesting, new systems emerging for working with TW, your solution SMELLS SWEET to me :-).

In earlier threads I note that Jeremy Ruston is wary of having ones TiddlyWiki locked up inside a specific browsers data storage department. I think if his worry is addressed in a clear way with easy routes to export and backup of Tiddler content I hope he'll see the upsides to your work so far.

I do wish more people with technical skill were expressing interest in this. I note Mat's enthusiam & am glad for it. Its a lot for one person to do it all.

From other PouchDB projects I looked at, its a very clear and thought through approach that embraces the modern net well.

Mat refereed to its "magical" nature. I think that hits the spot. And is it White magic or Black magic? :-). I think part of what would be helpful to reduce the idea you are the "Fairy Godfather" :-) is to explain a bit more about what "in browser storage" is. What the UPSIDES are and what the DOWNSIDES might be.

Personally after using it a bit in Firefox I got interested in WHERE is the data kept in Firefox. I still haven't found the DB, though I know it must be there somewhere :-)

Just to let you know that I will continue to play with it. I am seriously thinking of it as a very suitable way to create and publish e-pubs for audiences who just want to read & add notes, not fiddle about with a zillion different ways they have to save etc.

The one problem I had on this release was exactly the same as what Mat described for plugins.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Josiah]

Ciao again Danielo

I was wondering, given the sophistication of the PouchDB (TW) and a possible CouchDB (Apache server) combo could this permit what I might call "A Surrogate Multi-User TW"?

What I mean is if I synced to multiple devices could I work on one could I go further than have the other version register it? For instance, I get 3 other people to work simultaneously on three other instances of the same on different computers, could it cope and harmonise them?

As far as I grasp the tech both PouchDB and CouchDB are optimised for syncing. In that sense its a kind of multi-users system, though with no hierarchy rights?

Maybe I got this wrong?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello and thanks to both Mat and Josiah.
I have read your very well exposed points, and I want to answer them properly. Now I'm writing this from my mobile phone, let me reach my home and I will try to answer both of you.

Regards

[Danielo Rodríguez]

 

Heh, a funny thing happened: To try out installing a plugin, I installed the plugin "Documentation from tiddlywiki.com". If I understand, this overwrites both the Default tiddlers and the GettingStarted tiddler... which means I can then not re-access the Noteself GettingStarted tiddler!

Never though about that! To be honest, I don't find the documentation plugin of any help. But, I think it is a tiddlywiki limitation that you have to overrride the getting started plugin. Ideally you should be able to just add things to it. Sadly, If you install another plugin that overrides one of my plugins tiddlers there is not  much I can do. But, in any case, what are you missing from that tiddler? Once you have your wiki configured you don't need it anymore.

 

The Revisions feature in GettingStarted also does not show anything. Had to uninstall the docs plugin to access the NoteSelf GettingStarted again.

Do you mean that you have clicked the revisions button of that tiddler? That is normal, you are not creating a new version of that tiddler, you are just showing a different one.

 

 

In fiddling with the above, I clicked the site subtitle which opens the Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database. 

IMO the tab label should be "NoteSelf" instead of "TiddlyPouch" - I don't want to have to learn more terminology/names and the tab content is only(?) relevant for the NoteSelf context anyway.

That tab is from the TiddlyPouch plugin, which operates under NoteSelf edition. I admit that it could be confusing. One solution would be to create a NoteSelf customization plugin that overrides those details.

There the overlapping info in 

GettingStarted

Ctrlpanel>TiddlyPouch>Database

Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics

...this is a bit confusing, mostly because the same info is presented differently.

Well, GettingStarted and Ctrlpanel>Info>Basics overlaps even on the default edition of tiddlywiki. GettingStarted is not intended to be accessed frequently, but to provide a friendly welcome to the user. That's why it overlaps with some other tiddlers. But overlapping only occurs between GettingStarted and the other two, because they do not overlap between each other.

 

Actually, as an end user, where the data is stored even more belongs under the Ctrlpanel>Savings tab.

Yes. I should override that tab. I think I discarded that idea long long time ago, while my intention was to allow TiddlyPouch live in a regular Tiddlywiki edition, but that goal is farther each day.

 

In GettingStarted it says

 You can have as many notebooks as you want. Just change the Notebook Name , save and reload. 

This triggers the "download, save to local drive" process which does not seem correct - or? I was hoping it would just magically create and save to a new browser db. This does not work for me in chrome nor FF. (Win10.)

You're right, it is confusing. Well, to be honest, it is confusing for the experienced tiddlywiki user, because you know where the save button is located. If you look closely, there is a button that reads: "save config" Once you hit that button, the rest happens automatically. I think I should be even clearer and say click Save Config button and that's all. I feel that instructions are from earlier stages of development.

 

...actually, how is it even possible for the system to know if clicking standard save button should mean create a new selfnote db or download local copy (or even upload to a tiddlyspot if such data is filled in)?

Yes too many moving parts. The system does not know nothing about uploading to tiddlyspot, I should remove those references from standard TW. If you click "Save Config" then the system is notified and it knows what to do. If you click the regular save button you will get a database export in JSON format, some kind of backup/export facility. 

 

...

E.g for FAQ:

What "browser stuff" (cache, cookies, history...) is safe to clear out without affecting my NoteSelf data?

What about browser "Incognito mode".

Good points, should be added to the FAQ

 

 

Taking a step back to evaluate the situation, I realize that I have some hesitation with using SelfNote because a lot still seems so magical.

I understand how do you feel. Many times it feels magical even to me. Not to mention that TiddlyWiki itself is pure magic...

 

I see super potential in this tho.

<:-)

As usual, thank you for your great feedback Mat

 

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El lunes, 2 de enero de 2017, 17:03:30 (UTC+1), Josiah escribió:

Ciao Danielo

I think its a BRILLIANT piece of work.

Thank you very Much!

 

I don't use mobile phones much and its not my main interest. My main interest is how the PouchDB mechanism works as a potential saving mechanism across all browsers and device types. AND that PouchDB is superb for multi device syncing with a cloud IF you want that too. THAT is really exciting: (1) To see the possibility of a standard "out-of-the-box", easy local saving mechanism PLUS (2) reliable cloud based multi-device sync.

I'm happy that you see NoteSelf that way. It's cool to see that both you and me, with different interest (mobile + desktop vs desktop only ) can find the capabilities of NoteSelf interesting.

 

Whilst there are several current, interesting, new systems emerging for working with TW, your solution SMELLS SWEET to me :-)

Again, thank you very much. Feel free to use it as much as you want :-)

 

In earlier threads I note that Jeremy Ruston is wary of having ones TiddlyWiki locked up inside a specific browsers data storage department. I think if his worry is addressed in a clear way with easy routes to export and backup of Tiddler content I hope he'll see the upsides to your work so far.

Several users have that worry too, which is perfectly understandable. One of the main targets of Tiddlywiki and what users loves the most if the reliability and reachability of their data. Explaining those on a clear way should be a MUST.

 

I do wish more people with technical skill were expressing interest in this. I note Mat's enthusiam & am glad for it. Its a lot for one person to do it all.

Yes me too, but I also want regular users giving their feedback. Probably regular users is what I need the most.

 

 

Mat refereed to its "magical" nature. I think that hits the spot. And is it White magic or Black magic? :-). I think part of what would be helpful to reduce the idea you are the "Fairy Godfather" :-) is to explain a bit more about what "in browser storage" is. What the UPSIDES are and what the DOWNSIDES might be.

Yes, you are right. I can't expect people giving me their data without a clear explanation of how all this works. Well, regular users will do, but not tiddlywiki community.

 

Personally after using it a bit in Firefox I got interested in WHERE is the data kept in Firefox. I still haven't found the DB, though I know it must be there somewhere :-)

That should be added to the FAQ too.

 

Just to let you know that I will continue to play with it. I am seriously thinking of it as a very suitable way to create and publish e-pubs for audiences who just want to read & add notes, not fiddle about with a zillion different ways they have to save etc.

I never thought about that! It is a very cool idea.

Thank you for your feedback Josiah. 

[Ste Wilson]

Ok...
Well here's the non teach user feedback.

First question.. Do I need to save it to my device first or just use it straight from github because from 'You can start using your notebook right now' suggests I can fill in details on the form in front of me i.e https://noteself.github.io/online/

1a. What's a couchdb and where can I get one? (I know from your comments here that cloudant is the place to go)

2. Cloudant is a whole can of worms for a non techie (I think I've set up a db but I'm not sure) . Perhaps a little more hand holding needed.

3. What is the couchdb url? The couchdb tiddler provides a little more clarity.

4. Remote database name.
Is this just the name of the database I think I've created on cloudant or does it need a url?

I've set up a cloudant account and created a db called'noteself'.

I've filled in the fields. Pressed the button and get;

Syncer-browser - 22:47:21 4 1 2017
XMLHttpRequest error code: 0

And that's as far as I've got...

Ste

[Greg Hodgins]

Hi Steve.

Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other night.  I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you were trying to achieve.  Initially I thought it was all about the launch icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't enough to keep me that interested.

Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.

This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was.  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm really interested.

Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/.  Sometimes it's just information overload - although I think there are some things that could be made clearer off the top.  That said, there are so many different audiences to cover it is almost impossible.

Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.

Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.

Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page.  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  

Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.

With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen.  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  Ultimately even some kind of local http: host is probably necessary with a host name to configure restricted CORS from.

With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.

I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, assuming you do.

Have to run, but will be back.

Good luck.

P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way. No version control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.

All the best.

[Greg Hodgins]

Well, I'm inadvertently exploring the security aspect.  So much for thinking the GUID in the host name was the key to access.  On a second machine I've tried both copying my working noteself.html file and downloading a fresh one and configuring the CouchDB URL and remote database name.  There is an offline button that I click (because I am clearly not syncing) and I am prompted first with a green, what I assume is a Noteself userID and password prompt for the remote database, and then browser pops up with the same.

I'm not sure what user ID to use.  The only password I created to my knowledge was that associated with my cloudant account.

Also the browser challenge comes up twice and on the second appearance disappears on it's own accord while typing in the password.

A little lost.

[Greg Hodgins]

OK, on the Cloudant service page there is a Service Credentials.  Now I recall adding this at the beginning.  I didn't ever copy and paste the password/key in the view credentials in the first instance?????  Regardless from a second machine and my mobile I can login with the service credentials and all appears well.  Changes sync across all three.

Still can't say I understand the multi-user aspect, which appears supported in some fashion given I can create and login with different credentials, but shutting down for the night.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El miércoles, 4 de enero de 2017, 23:56:55 (UTC+1), Ste Wilson escribió:

Ok...
Well here's the non teach user feedback.

Hello Ste, let's do it!

 

First question.. Do I need to save it to my device first or just use it straight from github because from 'You can start using your notebook right now' suggests I can fill in details on the form in front of me i.e https://noteself.github.io/online/

You can start using it directly from https://noteself.github.io/online/, there is no need of downloading , so your guessings are right.

 

1a. What's a couchdb and where can I get one? (I know from your comments here that cloudant is the place to go)

I think I clearle stated on the main page that cloudant.com is the recomended place to go. Now I can see that I should make it more clear.

 

2. Cloudant is a whole can of worms for a non techie (I think I've set up a db but I'm not sure) . Perhaps a little more hand holding needed.

I found it very straightforward when I first use it. Obviously my perception differs from the rest of the people.

 

3. What is the couchdb url? The couchdb tiddler provides a little more clarity.

The URL of your server. In case of clooudat it is https://yourusername.cloudant.com

 

4. Remote database name. 

Is this just the name of the database I think I've created on cloudant or does it need a url?

This is just a database name. If it does not exist and you are an admin user it will be created automatically. No url, just name.

 

I've set up a cloudant account and created a db called'noteself'.

I've filled in the fields. Pressed the button and get;

Syncer-browser - 22:47:21 4 1 2017
XMLHttpRequest error code: 0

And that's as far as I've got...

Sorry to hear that your experience was not satisfying. I will definetivelly record a 2-min video. 

To fix this problem you have to setup CORS on your cloudant account.  Luckily it is very easy, please take a look at the following screenshot:

Hope you can fix this problem and give NoteSelf a go

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other night.

Hello Greg. Do you mean this thread ? 

 

 I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you were trying to achieve.  

Do you mean this notification or the whole Noteself page?

 Initially I thought it was all about the launch icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't enough to keep me that interested.

 

Actually is more than just an icon. Is the ability to use NoteSelf which is a web application even without any internet connection. Try to put your phone on airplane mode and open NoteSelf (no matter if you do from the browser or the desktop shortcut), it should work.

Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.

If you have to look for other posts to fully understand what I'm trying to achieve, then I'm doing something wrong in my announcements. This particular thread is focused on mobile experience, but the main NoteSelf page should be clear about what is the objective of the tool.

 

This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was.  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm really interested.

Glad you figured it out. It is not obvious, it took me some time at a first glance.

 

Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/.  Sometimes it's just information overload

I agree. I am open to any improvement you could suggest.

 

- although I think there are some things that could be made clearer off the top. 

Could you point me to some examples?

 

Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.

 

 Perfect easy explanation. 

Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.

Glad to hear that it was simple.

 

Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page.  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  

Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.

You don't need such complex url. If you are using cloudant it is as easy as https://yourusername.cloudant.com

 

With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen.  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  

Could you try to set the CORS to https://noteself.github.io/online domain? That will restrict CORS to the noteself online version. You are not forced to download the html file, I want to enforce that you can just use the online version, but if you want to do so, you  have to set the domains to *

 

 

With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.

Mmm, it should be an easier process, as I said, I'm going to record a 2-min video.

 

I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, assuming you do.

I don't understand your concerns clearly. If you use the online version of NoteSelf then you are connecting to an https site that communicates to an https database. Everything secured by the https protocol. To be able to write/read to your database, you need to provide your cloudant credentials, which are your username and password.

 

P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way.

Sorry, what do you mean by "proven sound"?

 

No version control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.

Well, NoteSelf does not currently have the required facilities, but it should be possible to use it with multiple users.

 

[Ste Wilson]

The cors thing was the thing. Success. Thanks you.

Ste

[Danielo Rodríguez]

For all those persons having problems with the cloudant configuration I just released an instructional video that starts from scratch:

https://youtu.be/Oc5lNND8dZE

Hope this could reduce the initial friction.

Regards

[Greg Hodgins]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:33:41 AM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:

Thanks Daniel.  I saw your initial NoteSelf press release :-) the other night.

Hello Greg. Do you mean this thread ? 

In retrospect, yes I do. 

 

 I tried it mobile and wasn't truly understanding everything you were trying to achieve.  

Do you mean this notification or the whole Noteself page?

This announcement.  Per below I thought it was all about the native app experience.  At least that is what I read late one night. 

 Initially I thought it was all about the launch icon on the device making more more like a native app.  Cool, but wasn't enough to keep me that interested.

 

Actually is more than just an icon. Is the ability to use NoteSelf which is a web application even without any internet connection. Try to put your phone on airplane mode and open NoteSelf (no matter if you do from the browser or the desktop shortcut), it should work.

Yep.  I get it now.  Offline first. Something I want. 

Then I read a little more in some other posts here and see you are interested in solving the mobile user experience.  Again, not a huge concern to me currently BUT something I am definitely interested in.

If you have to look for other posts to fully understand what I'm trying to achieve, then I'm doing something wrong in my announcements. This particular thread is focused on mobile experience, but the main NoteSelf page should be clear about what is the objective of the tool.

 

It is clearer on the home page as mentioned.  However, I am still confused about the references to the online/offline version vs. the offline capabilities - which I think both the offline and online "version" share.  Right?  When you describe the offline or online versions you are talking about whether you download a local copy of the html file to your local file versus running it from github.  In once sense you are describing the real benefits of offline capabilities, but then describing advantages of the online version.  It is confusing.

If I am correct, you may want go a little further to bring clarity to when you are talking about how/where the NoteSelf application is delivered vs.how it can be used when offline.

Of course as I write this I am doubting this is even what you are stating.  Doubting, but not sure. :-)

If I were to simply navigate to  noteself.github.io/online and start using NoteSelf, confuring my couchDB, how would it be available when I am offline?  How would I take advantage of the always up-to-date feature (also subject to the lack of control disadvantage of automatic updates) if I am offline/disconnected?  How would it even run?  Is this a function of the add to home screen action?  Does mobile browsers cache the html/application and update when connection established again?

This also led to some more research as to what this couchDB reference was.  Seeing some more posts including Steve had me checking the difference (and now understanding relationship) between pouchDB and couchDB.  Now I'm really interested.

Glad you figured it out. It is not obvious, it took me some time at a first glance.

 

Pretty darn cool.  I remember playing with similar technology almost 20 years ago now.  Cool build in js. 

Of course much of this is covered here. https://noteself.github.io/.  Sometimes it's just information overload

I agree. I am open to any improvement you could suggest.

 

- although I think there are some things that could be made clearer off the top. 

Could you point me to some examples?

It is mainly the confusion around the capability/ability to work offline and the offline/online application location in terms of clarity.  However, in terms of benefits/capabilities that are attractive to me, I would highlight the ability to have NoteSelf automatically synchronize data stored locally in the internal pouchDB database (whether online or offline) with an http accessible couchDB database (when accessible) that can be hosted in a variety of manners including cloud, and in turn with numerous NoteSelf instances sharing the same couchDB database.

If above is accurate - which i think it is.  Too many words though.  Could be turned into a bullet list.   

 

Long story short, I get it - I think.  NoteSelf uses a local in browser NoSQL database called pouchDB that supports 2 way replication with couchDB.

 

 Perfect easy explanation. 

Like Steve I setup a Cloudant couchDB.  Pretty simple.

Glad to hear that it was simple.

 

Steve, two things, your couchDB URL is in the URL of your DB admin page.  It is also visible in Account, Virtual Hosts.It is the name you could optionally replace with your own host name.  eg: c4e83ce0-e302-42a2-8d3d-5cd3a8ae59e2-bluemix.cloudant.com.  

Obviously I modified above, but hopefully you will recognize that.

You don't need such complex url. If you are using cloudant it is as easy as https://yourusername.cloudant.com

 

I just looked at this again.  I gather because I provisioned by couchDB through IBM Bluemix vs. directly through Cloudant I don't have a simple username.cloudant.com and I am not sure how to accomplish the same without setting up a virtual host, which I could do. More playing, but just know that people may have a slightly different experience.  I briefly watched your video and your experience was not 100% the same as mine given region I suspect.

With respect to your error check the CORS tab on the same account screen.  While I don't want to leave all domains (*) as currently selected, I am not sure how to code for a file hosted browser session.  

Could you try to set the CORS to https://noteself.github.io/online domain? That will restrict CORS to the noteself online version. You are not forced to download the html file, I want to enforce that you can just use the online version, but if you want to do so, you  have to set the domains to *

You want to reinforce (enforce would mean prevent me from doing otherwise, which isn't you intent. :-) )  that I can just use the online version.  I am now getting this subject to above.  I am interested in this, and just want to understand how that method works offline.  It also has me feeling like I am configuring your hosted application with my couchDB connection string and database name.  I'm not overly concerned, but it doesn't feel right without understanding. 

 

 

With those to things I got NoteSelf replicating as advertised.  Very cool.

Mmm, it should be an easier process, as I said, I'm going to record a 2-min video.

 

I'm certainly wanting to explore the security aspect a little more.  I gather that the GUID URL is one form of security and anyone accessing that URL has read/write access.  I hope you can add a little more security in that you appear to be able to set the permissions on the database and then generate API keys.  I'm not sure how/where you embed this in NoteSelf, assuming you do.

I don't understand your concerns clearly. If you use the online version of NoteSelf then you are connecting to an https site that communicates to an https database. Everything secured by the https protocol. To be able to write/read to your database, you need to provide your cloudant credentials, which are your username and password.

 

I actually don't understand where my password is being stored and using the online version I would be suspect of it being visible to you - not that I am worried about you. :-) 

P.S.  Exploring this as an alternative to my current node.js hosted on Google Drive approach that isn't proven sound in any way.

Sorry, what do you mean by "proven sound"?

I have issues with two different node.js instances accessing the same synhronized Google Drive data store because of conflicts in the TiddlyWeb config file being used in my config. 

 

No version control and not multi-user, that that NoteSelf is either me thinks.

Well, NoteSelf does not currently have the required facilities, but it should be possible to use it with multiple users.

 

NoteSelf does appear to have version control, no?

If I configure users in my couchDB instance and connect different NoteSelf instances to the same couchDB but using different users, might that allow multi-user?  Didn't I even see somewhere to indicate the user to tag tiddlers with?  I thought I did, but querying the couchDB test tiddlers didn't appear to have any such data element available.

Thanks so much.

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Danielo,

It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.

Some questions / remarks:

1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just take your published version
   download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing
• in other words, that there is no dependency to noteself.github.io/online whatsoever
• so, there are no passwords stored "there" ...it's all in the browsers cache or localStorage
• perhaps add to the FAQ "Where is my password stored?"
• your github page is simply just a starting point you could even use productively
  
• this is admittedly a bit confusing
• in other words, a user can ad-hoc hook their couchDB,
  pull the tiddlers into your site and work with it
• this is where it differs from TiddlySpot... you could simply push any tiddlywiki up there,
  but at some point you want to start working off of that url
• with Noteself, you can pull your couchDB stored tiddles into any noteself anywhere,
  one by one, revisions and all
• however, what if I wanted my own flavours (themes, plugins, etc...)?
  
• or even an entirely pre-baked version that looks totally different?
• perhaps you can make it slightly more clear, that noteself is but an application layer
  that can pull and push a batch of tiddlers, not an entire wiki
• however, that brings me to a question
2. What if I downloaded your version, "made it mine", different styles, plugins, etc...
   upload my "modified noteself", incl. its system tiddlers somewhere else
   and then started using it... which tiddlers would get synced to couchDB and why?
3. Somewhat in a similar line of thought, how does one upgrade (a) noteself?
4. What prevents you from publishing Noteself as a syncer plugin?
• I think that would make its nature much clearer,
  as but one, albeit exemplary, of a potentially big number of sync modules
5. What I would find highly interesting was the capability
   to sync multiple noteself "tiddler collections" in the same wiki
• some from that couchDB and / or table, some from another (e.g. a template)
• besides versions, this would clearly be a capability that TiddlySpot cannot deliver
6. as for revisions, there are two things
1. the icon could more gracefully look like a core thing, right now I find it a bit imposing
2. the actual revision handling feels very confusing to me
• tbh., I have no clue how to get back to an earlier revision
  
• what's most confusing though, I don't see a date for revisions anywhere, just cryptic numbers...
  that's not very usefull to figuring out a past version to revert to
• What is the meaning of those tabs?

Best wishes,

Tobias.

[Greg Hodgins]

Hi Tobias.  One thought below.

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 4:46:30 AM UTC-5, Tobias Beer wrote:

Hi Danielo,

It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.

Some questions / remarks:

1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just take your published version
   download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing

Personally, this was clear to me.  That is exactly what I did.  What I am less clear on is how I could use the noteself.github.io "online version" to benefit from automatic updates. How can I use the "online version" without a network connection (offline) and if I do use the "online version" where is my couchDB configuration stored?  Where is my password stored? At github? 

I don't even know where it is stored now with my local version BTW.  I'm thinking a cookie.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Just a fast answer, It's late and I'm tired

 

and if I do use the "online version" where is my couchDB configuration stored?  Where is my password stored? At github? 

I don't even know where it is stored now with my local version BTW.  I'm thinking a cookie

Your passwor IS NEVER STORED, not in the online version, nor on the offline version, in any version. I consider that a security risk.

Like most of the modern web services (believe me, hundred of services that you use and trust) authentication is managed through cookies.

[Greg Hodgins]

I am not certain how I found myself creating a Bluemix account to create my Cloudant database, but I just created a new account directly navigating to cloudant.com.  Now I have a nice username.cloudant.com service and a password that make perfect sense in terms of association with my cloudant service.  My initial service creation looked more like the one in your video.

I imagine the Bluemix route, which provides access to other IBM cloud services, provides some additional flexibility and/or capability that I am not interested in currently.  With that flexibility comes complexity I don't want to chase.  I could create a virtual host for my cloudant service in Bluemix for an simpler, like username, hostname for my service versus the GUID initially assigned.  I'm less sure how I would configure the username and password specific to that service or database.

Moral of the story, if you want to keep it simple as the video depicts and Danielo suggested, just go to cloudant.com and create the service.

I didn't read the terms of service (yes I checked the button).  I didn't have to enter any payment information.  At some point do I have to pay for cloudant.com services?

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:15:20 PM UTC-5, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:

[Danielo Rodríguez]

t is clearer on the home page as mentioned.  However, I am still confused about the references to the online/offline version vs. the offline capabilities - which I think both the offline and online "version" share.  Right?  When you describe the offline or online versions you are talking about whether you download a local copy of the html file to your local file versus running it from github.  In once sense you are describing the real benefits of offline capabilities, but then describing advantages of the online version.  It is confusing.
If I am correct, you may want go a little further to bring clarity to when you are talking about how/where the NoteSelf application is delivered vs.how it can be used when offline.

I totally agree. I think for the moment I will remove all the references to downloaded version and focus on the offline capabilities.  

If I were to simply navigate to  noteself.github.io/online and start using NoteSelf, confuring my couchDB, how would it be available when I am offline?  How would I take advantage of the always up-to-date feature (also subject to the lack of control disadvantage of automatic updates) if I am offline/disconnected?  How would it even run?  Is this a function of the add to home screen action?  Does mobile browsers cache the html/application and update when connection established again?

I think you have already answered your question above with the quotation below:

It is mainly the confusion around the capability/ability to work offline and the offline/online application location in terms of clarity.  However, in terms of benefits/capabilities that are attractive to me, I would highlight the ability to have NoteSelf automatically synchronize data stored locally in the internal pouchDB database (whether online or offline) with an http accessible couchDB database (when accessible) that can be hosted in a variety of manners including cloud, and in turn with numerous NoteSelf instances sharing the same couchDB database. 

If above is accurate - which i think it is.  Too many words though.  Could be turned into a bullet list.   

 

Again, I agree.

I am now getting this subject to above.  I am interested in this, and just want to understand how that method works offline.  

It is pretty simple: you open the page, then a service worker (which is a stunning technology) is installed. The service worker allows the web-page to be displayed when you are offline, while PouchDB allows the data to be saved while you are offline. Combining those two you have a fully offline application.

 

It also has me feeling like I am configuring your hosted application with my couchDB connection string and database name.  I'm not overly concerned, but it doesn't feel right without understanding. 

It is funny how the human mind works. Would it be different if I ask you to create a NoteSelf account and I ask you to log-in in my application? I bet that will feel better :D In any case, you are not saving anything into my application. The application runs on github, which has no backend and therefore it has any ability to save any of your data. You can understand it as accessing your database through a different UI.

I actually don't understand where my password is being stored and using the online version I would be suspect of it being visible to you - not that I am worried about you. :-) 

Your password is never stored. The browser handles the cookie like it does for the rest of web pages you use.

NoteSelf does appear to have version control, no?

Yes, it has. But the UI is not very polished yet. 

If I configure users in my couchDB instance and connect different NoteSelf instances to the same couchDB but using different users, might that allow multi-user?

Yes that is absolutely possible.

 

 Didn't I even see somewhere to indicate the user to tag tiddlers with?  I thought I did, but querying the couchDB test tiddlers didn't appear to have any such data element available.

At first I thought I could setup the author to the user that is logged in. But, what if the user never logs in? At first I was saving the username as part of the database configuration, but after a while I started considering that a security flaw, and I stopped doing it. What do you think if after you have logged in I setup the author to your username? I never asked anyone and I want to have an opinion.

 I didn't have to enter any payment information.  At some point do I have to pay for cloudant.com services?

I have been using it for more than a year now and I never payed a penny. 

Thank you for your comments and for trying NoteSelf so much!

 

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 6 de enero de 2017, 10:46:30 (UTC+1), Tobias Beer escribió:

Hi Danielo,

It's a very interesting piece of TiddlyWiki sync technology.

Hello Tobias, I'm happy to see your observations around here again :-D

 

Some questions / remarks:

1. I think it is not necessarily clear to everyone, that they can just take your published version
   download it and put it somewhere else and it would still do the thing
• in other words, that there is no dependency to noteself.github.io/online whatsoever

I think that is more or less clear. At least for me and Greg :-P  Have you read the whole index page at NoteSelf.github.io ? I guess the answer is yes, but just to be sure.

 

• so, there are no passwords stored "there" ...it's all in the browsers cache or localStorage
• perhaps add to the FAQ "Where is my password stored?"

Is not even localStorage or browser cache, it's a cookie, managed by the browser which is not accesible from any JS code. But you are right about the lack of FAQ about that.

 

• your github page is simply just a starting point you could even use productively
  
• this is admittedly a bit confusing

Sorry, I don't totally understand what do you mean with that. With github page you mean the repository or the page at noteself.github.io?

 

• in other words, a user can ad-hoc hook their couchDB,
  pull the tiddlers into your site and work with it

Yes, totally right, and absolutely correct. 

• this is where it differs from TiddlySpot... you could simply push any tiddlywiki up there,
  but at some point you want to start working off of that url

Yes, it differs from  TiddlySpot. They are two different services (the word service is the key). Sorry, what do you meant that you want to start working off of that url? And, what are the advantages (once you explain me the concept )?

• with Noteself, you can pull your couchDB stored tiddles into any noteself anywhere,
  one by one, revisions and all

Well, to be 100% honest revisions are only available on tiddlers created locally, not the ones synced from the server. I could make that happen, but it is not that way at the moment. 

 

• however, what if I wanted my own flavours (themes, plugins, etc...)?
  
• or even an entirely pre-baked version that looks totally different?
• perhaps you can make it slightly more clear, that noteself is but an application layer
  that can pull and push a batch of tiddlers, not an entire wiki

That's the point where I want to clarify things. NoteSelf it is not an application layer, it is an application itself and it is planned to be a future in a near future. This means that you will able to navigate to noteself.github.io (or any other domain if I migrate it) create an account and start using the service on your browser, mobile and have sync between them without the need to know anything about tiddlywiki. Of course at the current stage the main target are already existing tiddlywiki users, but I want to make NoteSelf a friendly service to the masses.

There is also a misconception about what NoteSelf is/does. As I said, it is not a plugin, it is (at the moment) a Tiddlywiki edition, with a naive point of view and clear objectives. If you want to create your own edition, bake your own flavours, themes, plugins... you don't have to look at NoteSelf, you have to go one step back and look at TiddlyPouch. TiddlyPouch is the plugin that powers NoteSelf and brings pouchdb, sync capabilities and a UI to manage all that.

Currently I'm focused on making NoteSelf a better product and build a service around it, and I don't have time to write clear documentation about how to use TiddlyPouch on your own eddition products. Mainly because not much people has demonstrated any interest on it. Maybe in the future, If I have a couple of collaborators on the TiddlyPouch side and an already running product built on top of NoteSelf I could help other developers use my base plugin to build their own applications/products.

• however, that brings me to a question
1. What if I downloaded your version, "made it mine", different styles, plugins, etc...
   upload my "modified noteself", incl. its system tiddlers somewhere else
   and then started using it... which tiddlers would get synced to couchDB and why?

For the most of that question, take a look at the answer above. About the latest... it should sync the exact same tiddlers as it would do in any other edition/version, which means all the user's tiddlers.

 

1. Somewhat in a similar line of thought, how does one upgrade (a) noteself?

If you use the online edition you don't have to worry about that. In any case, I think your best bet is to download the latest version and point it to your couchDB server. And if you don't have any couchDB server, just export the database of your previous version and import it on the new one.

1. What prevents you from publishing Noteself as a syncer plugin?
• I think that would make its nature much clearer,
  as but one, albeit exemplary, of a potentially big number of sync modules

Again, I refer this question to my answer above.

 

1. What I would find highly interesting was the capability
   to sync multiple noteself "tiddler collections" in the same wiki
• some from that couchDB and / or table, some from another (e.g. a template)
• besides versions, this would clearly be a capability that TiddlySpot cannot deliver

That is a planned feature. In fact, I want to do things like:

• Streams of public databases you can subscribe to
• Ability to setup several remote databases to syn-to
• Ability to setup each source as just a source to read to, just a place to write to or two way syncing. 

 

1. as for revisions, there are two things
1. the icon could more gracefully look like a core thing, right now I find it a bit imposing

If you can suggest a better icon that makes clearly visible that it is about revisions I am very very open to use it. The current icon is the best I was able to create.

1. the actual revision handling feels very confusing to me

I admit it has some flaws... 

• tbh., I have no clue how to get back to an earlier revision
  

Hahaha, that is the main flaw. There is no easy or user friendly way. I have open a github issue as a reminder to myself. Feel free to comment there: https://github.com/danielo515/tiddlypouch/issues/23 

• what's most confusing though, I don't see a date for revisions anywhere, just cryptic numbers...
  that's not very usefull to figuring out a past version to revert to

Well, those numbers are the revisions IDs. At least you can check how the tiddler looked like at that point. Isn't that helpful? 

• What is the meaning of those tabs?

If I correctly grasp what are you referring to, those tabs represents the different states or revisions of the current tiddler.

Thanks for your interest Tobias

[oleghbond]

Dear Danielo, 

thanks for the good job done. Looks quite promising.

Could you clarify a couple of issues:

• Would it be possible to apply your approach for access of a group of users to a single database?
  
• Could individual authentification for a group of users be realized in your approach?
  

Olegh

четвер, 29 грудня 2016 р. 23:15:20 UTC+2 користувач Danielo Rodríguez написав:

[oleghbond]

Dear Danielo,

so far so good - I succeeded establishing sync with cloudant DB.

Another issue - how to embed your plugin into Node.js version of TW5? The reason is that I need version control (as in your project https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-auto-publish2gh-pages). For this Node.js is much more convenient.

пʼятниця, 13 січня 2017 р. 19:30:00 UTC+2 користувач oleghbond написав:

[dodoo]

I like noteself very much. Now I can sync tiddlers between my PC and Andriod phone. 

The only thing left unsolved is I still cannot access https://noteself.github.io/online on my ipad. I have tried several browsers: safri, chrome, and firefox. All of them kept loading and showed nothing.

在 2016年12月30日星期五 UTC+8上午5:15:20，Danielo Rodríguez写道：

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El sábado, 14 de enero de 2017, 18:14:53 (UTC+1), dodoo escribió:

I like noteself very much. Now I can sync tiddlers between my PC and Andriod phone. 

The only thing left unsolved is I still cannot access https://noteself.github.io/online on my ipad. I have tried several browsers: safri, chrome, and firefox. All of them kept loading and showed nothing.

Earlier versions of NoteSelf had that same problem on some user's iphone's. What version of IOS do you  have? Have you tried on any other IOS device? For example an iphone?

Regards  

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 13 de enero de 2017, 23:16:37 (UTC+1), oleghbond escribió:

Dear Danielo,

so far so good - I succeeded establishing sync with cloudant DB.

Glad to hear that!

 

Another issue - how to embed your plugin into Node.js version of TW5? The reason is that I need version control (as in your project https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-auto-publish2gh-pages). For this Node.js is much more convenient.

What kind of version control and why do you think that node is more suitable for it? 

The problem of your requirement is the nature of tiddlywiki. Tiddlywiki is not able to use two sync adapters. So if you have an adapter that syncs to a database, like the one that is being used in NoteSelf you can not synchronize to the filesystem. Such requirement will require both a custom client plugin and a special version of a server plugin. Maybe in a future I could provide such configuration, but at the moment I don't have time to implement it properly.

Regards

[Adam Houston]

Is it possible to load the gsd5 (or your forked copy https://github.com/danielo515/gsd5 ) into the NoteSelf Online edition?  Or for that matter load in http://cardo.wiki (I was a fan and user of dGSD previously)?  I have been interested in a gsd/dgsd/GTD type tiddlywiki that could sync individual tiddlers vs uploading the entire wiki as well as run on a mobile device.

[dodoo]

The iOS version is 10.2. This is the only apple product I can access now. I will try on other ipad devices next week.

在 2017年1月16日星期一 UTC+8下午11:34:15，Danielo Rodríguez写道：

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Dear Adam Houston,

I didn't tried the mentioned plugins,but you should be able to install and use them without problems on the online version of noteself.
I am collecting a list of plugins to include in the official plugin library for noteself. The ones you mention are good ones ,and I will try to add them if the author's agree.

In any case,the regular way of installing plugins should work.

Regards

[Adam Houston]

Just an update: I loaded cardo.wiki into the quick launch(mobile) version of NoteSelf last week and it seems to work pretty well.  I have always loved how much functionality you can get out of the TW framework by just plugging things together from different sources :)

Thank you for your efforts on putting this together.  A year or two ago I had thought that the various GTD TWclassic packages I was either using or experimenting with could be so much improved by something with a syncable pouchdb/couchdb back-end.  I had experimented with loading a few things into tiddlyspace and could see the promise.  With TW5 being designed with the concept of tiddlers coming from some data source and the workable pouchdb plugin you have put together I can see a number of very useful and powerful solutions be assembled in a more simplified manner.

Adam

[wimm]

Danielo,

Congrats, very nice concept, chapeaux!

I made a little modification to the transclude tiddler to view the source instead of the wikified version of the revisions.

$:/plugins/danielo515/tiddlypouch/ui/revisions/transclude-template

<!-- This template should be used with the tabs macro  -->

<$list filter="[is[current]!field:title<currentTab>]">

<$tiddler tiddler=<<currentTab>>>

<!-- original line shows wikified:  <$transclude tiddler="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate"/>-->

<!-- this line shows non-wikified source --> <pre><$view field="text"/></pre>

</$tiddler>

</$list>

regards

Wimm

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El viernes, 27 de enero de 2017, 13:50:31 (UTC+1), wimm escribió:

Danielo,

Congrats, very nice concept, chapeaux!

Thank you very much wimm !! Glad you are liking it.

 

I made a little modification to the transclude tiddler to view the source instead of the wikified version of the revisions.

Cool! The way it is now is for making it easier for regular users. Bud I'm glad that you figured out how to make it fit your needs. If you add any UI to switch between both types of revisions don't hesitate to let me know about it.

Regards