[Presenting]: STROLL official rollout!

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David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 11:04:17 AM5/7/20
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Hi everyone

Stroll is a TiddlyWiki adaptation imitating certain features of Roam to help users easily see connections between their notes and navigate between them. Features include:
  • bi-directional links,
  • autocompletion when linking,
  • renaming of links upon changing tiddler titles,
  • side-by-side editing of multiple notes.
Stroll is the successor to TiddlyBlink. I do not plan to update TiddlyBlink (or its cousin Idea Stew) from here on out, except may be to upgrade to new versions of TiddlyWiki.

I have uploaded Stroll to its official home: https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html.

I am hoping that its detailed tutorial will help introduce TiddlyWiki to a new generation of non-techy users. I am also hoping that its similarity to Roam will make it attractive to those who enjoy Roam but are concerned about privacy issues for some of their information, or who won't be able to afford Roam when it begins charging a subscription.

Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback during the experimental phase, and especially to Saq Imtiaz for creating and adapting his Stories plugin for Stroll's needs. And thanks to all of you in advance for your continued feedback and your promotion of Stroll as an easy way of getting people added to the TiddlyWiki community.

Blessings.

Robert Haisfield

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May 7, 2020, 11:34:00 AM5/7/20
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Hey! Would love it if the backlinks highlighted in context were rendered rather than the original text, includes things like html for hover previews. See attached image.
068ED7DF-931A-4C4A-A923-FD966C000402.jpg

Robert Haisfield

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May 7, 2020, 11:52:57 AM5/7/20
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Also, transclusion doesn't seem to be working properly.  Used this text: This is a dummy article.

<div class="tooltip">[[This is a link with a preview|My notes]]<div class="tooltiptext"><$transclude tiddler="My notes" mode="block"/></div></div>.

and ended up with transclusion as shown in the image, not as a hover preview.
7CA60C1D-FF26-4E9F-AA94-8B9880386F1C.jpg

Peter Buyze

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May 7, 2020, 11:59:22 AM5/7/20
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Congrats David, well done with this impressive piece of work, and your enthusiasm is inspiring too. I got started with TW by using TB some 3 weeks ago and have enjoyed every minute of it, thanks in no small part too of the amazingly dynamic  Google Group forum and its helpful members. In fact, it has even become difficult to tear myself away and do something else - self-discipline is important though.

I am looking forward to eventually explore, and make the switch to Stroll when I will start writing. Until that time I will keep abreast of events around Stroll.

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7 May 2020, 18:04 by dgif...@crcna.org:
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Mohammad

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May 7, 2020, 12:07:45 PM5/7/20
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Well done!
Thanks for sharing! 

Ignore this comment: 
  1. I would put settings under More tab
  2. The pinky eye icon could be theme consistent!

Cheers
Mohammad 

David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 12:54:19 PM5/7/20
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Sorry, Robert, the highlight search in context function is part of someone else's plugin. I wouldn't know how to change it even if I wanted to.


Hey! Would love it if the backlinks highlighted in context were rendered rather than the original text, includes things like html for hover previews. See attached image.

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David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 12:55:12 PM5/7/20
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Thanks for the kind words, Peter. Glad you were persistent enough to start getting the hang of it.

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David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 12:57:50 PM5/7/20
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Hey Robert

I think you are trying to do the transclusion of popups from another of my pages (https://giffmex.org/gifts/transclusioninpopups.html). That is not incorporated into Stroll. Add the three tiddlers listed below, but from that page, and you should be able to do that.




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David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 1:00:37 PM5/7/20
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"Ignore this comment" - Mohammad was this an excerpt from a previous post? I don't see that post. And yes, I will ignore those comments. :-)

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Sylvain Naudin

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May 7, 2020, 2:08:01 PM5/7/20
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Hi David,

Just open for the first time and read the documentation quickly.

When I saw the SVG icons in the text, it made me thought about this thread with a solution to integrate these icons more harmoniously in the text :



Sylvain

David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 2:21:36 PM5/7/20
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Awesome, Sylvain! I didn't know about that macro, or at least not for this use case. Fixed! Thank you!


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Alexander Williams

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May 7, 2020, 8:01:07 PM5/7/20
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On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-4, David Gifford wrote:
Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback during the experimental phase, and especially to Saq Imtiaz for creating and adapting his Stories plugin for Stroll's needs. And thanks to all of you in advance for your continued feedback and your promotion of Stroll as an easy way of getting people added to the TiddlyWiki community.

Interestingly, I'm seeing a strange error repeated when I convert it to run in Node.js as a wikifolder. To wit: 

G:\TiddlyWiki>tiddlywiki Hierarch --listen
Warning: Plugins required for client-server operation ("tiddlywiki/filesystem" and "tiddlywiki/tiddlyweb") are missing from tiddlywiki.info file
(press ctrl-C to exit)
Blocked attempt to GET /recipes/default/tiddlers/tiddlers.json with filter: [all[tiddlers]] 
-[[$:/isEncrypted]] -[prefix[$:/temp/]] -[prefix[$:/status/]]
Blocked attempt to GET /recipes/default/tiddlers/tiddlers.json with filter: [all[tiddlers]] 
-[[$:/isEncrypted]] -[prefix[$:/temp/]] -[prefix[$:/status/]]
Blocked attempt to GET /recipes/default/tiddlers/tiddlers.json with filter: [all[tiddlers]] 
-[[$:/isEncrypted]] -[prefix[$:/temp/]] -[prefix[$:/status/]]
Blocked attempt to GET /recipes/default/tiddlers/tiddlers.json with filter: [all[tiddlers]] 
-[[$:/isEncrypted]] -[prefix[$:/temp/]] -[prefix[$:/status/]]
Blocked attempt to GET /recipes/default/tiddlers/tiddlers.json with filter: [all[tiddlers]] 
-[[$:/isEncrypted]] -[prefix[$:/temp/]] -[prefix[$:/status/]]

Which I'm pretty sure isn't supposed to happen.

Otherwise, it definitely seems to be working.

David Gifford

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May 7, 2020, 8:12:31 PM5/7/20
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Hi Alexander

Hmmmm...hopefully someone else can investigate this - I really have very little experience with node.js. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!


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Martin Piron

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May 8, 2020, 4:38:56 AM5/8/20
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Hello Dave, thanks a lot again for your hard work !

I noticed that Stroll deactivates (or accelerates too much ?) the animations normally visible with the "Pop" or "Zoomin" story views. Is that a desired effect ? I personally quite like the animations and would like to know if I can have them back :-)

Also, the link autocompletion does not show when I use ctrl+space, neither any key combination that I tried (configured following the convention defined by the developer here). That bothers me a bit but still, it works with "[[" so...
I'm a little bit annoyed by the fact that this autocompletion plugin seems not usable with, for example, CodeMirror editor that I like, and that it does not seem to be possible to click on a completion to accept it (which would be very useful on a touchscreen).

David Gifford

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May 8, 2020, 9:35:30 AM5/8/20
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Hi Martin,


On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 3:38:56 AM UTC-5, Martin Piron wrote:
Hello Dave, thanks a lot again for your hard work !

I noticed that Stroll deactivates (or accelerates too much ?) the animations normally visible with the "Pop" or "Zoomin" story views. Is that a desired effect ? I personally quite like the animations and would like to know if I can have them back :-)

Easy fix. Change the tiddler $:/config/AnimationDuration back to 400.

Also, the link autocompletion does not show when I use ctrl+space, neither any key combination that I tried (configured following the convention defined by the developer here). That bothers me a bit but still, it works with "[[" so...
I'm a little bit annoyed by the fact that this autocompletion plugin seems not usable with, for example, CodeMirror editor that I like, and that it does not seem to be possible to click on a completion to accept it (which would be very useful on a touchscreen).

That is something to take up with the plugin creator. It works as is for the use case of Stroll, taking notes in TiddlyWiki. I did make a change in the folllowing tiddler. Not sure if that is causing the problem you are seeing. Sorry I can't be of more help than that.

$:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext/config

Martin Piron

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May 8, 2020, 10:00:22 AM5/8/20
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Thank you so much, Dave.

Another thing I noticed (sorry, I hope this is not annoying to you ?) is that increasing the sidebar width setting while in "fluid story, fixed sidebar" layout does not actually extend the sidebar any more, it just creates a margin between the story and sidebar. This renders the TiddlyMap usage quite challenging...

Is there a setting somewhere in Stroll (I noticed that behavior on a plain Stroll file) that fixes the sidebar width disregarding the Sidebar width setting in

$:/ControlPanel ?

Birthe C

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May 8, 2020, 10:46:20 AM5/8/20
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Hi Martin,

Using Stroll, look in the control panel for options in tab Two Story Layout.
If you want to use TiddlyMap in the sidebar, I think TiddlyBlink might be a better choice.

Birthe

David Gifford

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May 8, 2020, 10:54:43 AM5/8/20
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Hi Martin

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 9:00 AM Martin Piron <piron....@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you so much, Dave.

Another thing I noticed (sorry, I hope this is not annoying to you ?)

No, not annoying, very helpful. Because TiddlyWiki is so adaptable, there is no way I can test every possible thing that users will do with it. So I need to hear these kinds of things in case there are refinements or instructions I need to put in place.

is that increasing the sidebar width setting while in "fluid story, fixed sidebar" layout does not actually extend the sidebar any more, it just creates a margin between the story and sidebar. This renders the TiddlyMap usage quite challenging...

Yes, I think the Stories plugin affects or limits what you can do with the sidebar/story river measurements. Have you tried also experimenting with top two measurements in the Control panel > Appearance > Two Story Layout? Saq has a really wide screen and had it set at 1500px. I have an average laptop, and had to adjust it to 1100px. I don't know what kind of screen you are working on, or what you are seeing, so it is hard to offer advice.

TiddlyMap is probably only going to work in one column mode. I think it has ways of opening up as a separate tiddler, though. Sorry, I haven't worked much with that plugin.

Is there a setting somewhere in Stroll (I noticed that behavior on a plain Stroll file) that fixes the sidebar width disregarding the Sidebar width setting in

$:/ControlPanel ?


See Control panel > Appearance > Two Story Layout should be what you are looking for.



Le vendredi 8 mai 2020 15:35:30 UTC+2, David Gifford a écrit :
Hi Martin,

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 3:38:56 AM UTC-5, Martin Piron wrote:
Hello Dave, thanks a lot again for your hard work !

I noticed that Stroll deactivates (or accelerates too much ?) the animations normally visible with the "Pop" or "Zoomin" story views. Is that a desired effect ? I personally quite like the animations and would like to know if I can have them back :-)

Easy fix. Change the tiddler $:/config/AnimationDuration back to 400.

Also, the link autocompletion does not show when I use ctrl+space, neither any key combination that I tried (configured following the convention defined by the developer here). That bothers me a bit but still, it works with "[[" so...
I'm a little bit annoyed by the fact that this autocompletion plugin seems not usable with, for example, CodeMirror editor that I like, and that it does not seem to be possible to click on a completion to accept it (which would be very useful on a touchscreen).

That is something to take up with the plugin creator. It works as is for the use case of Stroll, taking notes in TiddlyWiki. I did make a change in the folllowing tiddler. Not sure if that is causing the problem you are seeing. Sorry I can't be of more help than that.

$:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext/config


Le jeudi 7 mai 2020 17:04:17 UTC+2, David Gifford a écrit :
Hi everyone

Stroll is a TiddlyWiki adaptation imitating certain features of Roam to help users easily see connections between their notes and navigate between them. Features include:
  • bi-directional links,
  • autocompletion when linking,
  • renaming of links upon changing tiddler titles,
  • side-by-side editing of multiple notes.
Stroll is the successor to TiddlyBlink. I do not plan to update TiddlyBlink (or its cousin Idea Stew) from here on out, except may be to upgrade to new versions of TiddlyWiki.

I have uploaded Stroll to its official home: https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html.

I am hoping that its detailed tutorial will help introduce TiddlyWiki to a new generation of non-techy users. I am also hoping that its similarity to Roam will make it attractive to those who enjoy Roam but are concerned about privacy issues for some of their information, or who won't be able to afford Roam when it begins charging a subscription.

Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback during the experimental phase, and especially to Saq Imtiaz for creating and adapting his Stories plugin for Stroll's needs. And thanks to all of you in advance for your continued feedback and your promotion of Stroll as an easy way of getting people added to the TiddlyWiki community.

Blessings.

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Saq Imtiaz

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May 8, 2020, 11:22:33 AM5/8/20
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@Martin @Dave I can make no guarantees that you can have a wider sidebar with the Stories plugin as it is now but I think it should work.The fixed width of the sidebar that you are seeing now is most likely due to hardwired numbers for the sidebar width in a non-Stories CSS tiddler, perhaps from TiddlyBlink?

The solution would be to pull the number from the config tiddler 
$:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/metrics/sidebarwidth
Hope this helps,
Saq

Ed Heil

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May 8, 2020, 11:29:11 AM5/8/20
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This is outstanding.  I feel like it could completely transform how one works with tiddlywikis.

Right now it feels like the learning path for a new tiddlywiki user is

* use links because they're easy and basic
* realize you can't rename tiddlers without a lot of work -- grab a plugin to fix it, or start looking into tags, which do auto-renaming completely
* realize a lot of the most powerful ways of linking things together involves tags, because a tag establishes a two-way link between the tag tiddler and the tagged tiddler, and the relationship persists through renames.

At least, that was the path for me.

But there's a discontinuity between fluent "writing and linking" and "learning to do things effectively with tags" which requires effort to cross.

With this, you get a lot of the benefits that right now require tags, without having to make that extra jump of learning.  It keeps things more traditionally wiki-like, text-oriented.

I wonder if the future of Tiddlywiki is going to involve incorporating some kind of backlinking.

One small downside for me: it's a bummer that the autocomplete plugin doesn't allow you to just click on one of the completions, as opposed to moving down onto them with arrow keys, because I'm often on mobile where I have no arrow keys.  Oh well, I can disable that, it's a peripheral issue.  I appreciate the fact that it was called out in the tutorial so I knew what was going on there.

Anyway, congratulations on this achievement.


On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-4, David Gifford wrote:

David Gifford

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May 8, 2020, 11:39:22 AM5/8/20
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Finally someone gets it! 

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Martin Piron

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May 9, 2020, 5:22:40 AM5/9/20
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@Saq @Dave

Thanks ! This is what I see (notice that two- or one-story mode does not help with the sidebar width, that I made 600px) :


@Saq,
$:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/metrics/sidebarwidth
is 600px as configured in the ControlPanel, but that does not change the sidebar content width, unfortunately. I don't know where to search for a CSS tiddler fixing this value, and Control panel > Appearance > Two Story Layout values do not seem to be changing this behavior.

I tried deactivating the Stories plugin but that does not help with the sidebar width, so it must be a value buried somewhere in Stroll @Dave ?

Thanks again for your excellent work and support !

Birthe C

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May 9, 2020, 5:34:36 AM5/9/20
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Martin Piron,

You can find it in $:/.giffmex/.Stylesheet4tiddlyblink the following part

/*SIDEBAR*/

.tc-sidebar-scrollable { left: auto; top: 0; right: 0; width: 350px; }

But editing that alone will not give you the result you are after. It has to fit the two story.


Birthe

Saq Imtiaz

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May 9, 2020, 5:42:40 AM5/9/20
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@Martin @Birthe

Actually try removing that line entirely. I suspect it should work and if not, let me know.

Birthe C

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May 9, 2020, 6:00:15 AM5/9/20
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Saq and Martin,

I am using a small screen and really not using sidebar that much. I do realise that it is important to Tiddlymap users.

For my use I used the ideas from Jan and Eucaly. On my screen it looks like this.

Birthe

Stroll_mysmall_screen.png

Saq Imtiaz

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May 9, 2020, 6:48:52 AM5/9/20
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@Birthe good solution for smaller screens!

Edu Neve

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May 9, 2020, 7:12:31 AM5/9/20
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Thank you David!
I was struggling to get Tobibeer's multi-level nested hover previews (with his preview plugin) working with TiddlyBlink, as they were conflicting with the blinks, but I see it now works with Stroll.

Thanks also to Robert Haisfeld for the idea of trying with Stroll. 

For installing Tobibeer preview plugin, the appear plugin is also necessary: https://tobibeer.github.io/tw5-plugins/#preview

I'm attaching a file with the preview plugin already installed in Stroll.

David, please let me know if you find any conflicts between this plugin and the overall functionality of Stroll.

Thanks again for the great work!
StrollAndHover.html

Ed Heil

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May 9, 2020, 3:40:52 PM5/9/20
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David,

On the issue of the autocomplete -- it might be worth calling out in the tutorial that the autocomplete plugin won't work on iOS, or anyplace you don't have arrow keys, as this will be a problem for people using it, e.g., through Quine 2. It's also not trivial to disable it; you can't just disable the plugin, you need to go find the shadowed tiddler which replaces the regular editor with the autocompleting editor, and delete the shadowing tiddler. (I learned that from reading the Autocomplete docs.) That's not something a beginner would have any idea how to do so it might be an unnecessary hurdle.

One other thing I would have liked to see in the tutorial -- I was thinking about whether I just wanted to add the backlink plugin to my existing tiddlywiki. The tutorial tells me what the backlink plugin does -- but it doesn't tell me what it *doesn't* do that the full Stroll install *does* do. So I didn't feel like I had the information I needed to make that choice.

Just a couple suggestions. Again, I'm very enthusiastic about Stroll!

Gerrit Beine

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May 9, 2020, 4:06:14 PM5/9/20
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Hi Dave,
as promised on Twitter, here are my patched files.
I've fixed the usage of icons and the hints for the toolbar buttons.
Thanks again for stroll!
Gerrit
$__.giffmex_ViewToolbar_new-note-here-datetime.tid.diff
$__.giffmex_ViewToolbar_new-note-here.tid.diff

selfire

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May 9, 2020, 4:37:35 PM5/9/20
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Hi David,

thank you so much for your amazing work.

I seem to have the problem that whenever I tick "Stroll default tiddler title position", the title for my tiddlers just disappears, including any editor options.

Choose how to view titles:

 Stroll default tiddler title position
 TiddlyWiki default tiddler title position

Birthe C

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May 9, 2020, 5:00:57 PM5/9/20
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If you open tiddler $:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/title in one of the stories and tiddler $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/title in the other story. You can see, that toggling Stroll default tiddler title position and tiddlywiki default tiddler title posision really toggles $:/tags/ViewTemplate/title. That will work - if one of the tiddlers was not overwritten for some reason. Both being without tag at the same time.

Birthe


David Gifford

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May 9, 2020, 10:58:29 PM5/9/20
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Hi Gerrit

1) Not sure how to open diff files. Maybe you could send them in a tiddlywiki html or as tid files?

2) What specifically is wrong with my "usage of icons and the hints for the toolbar buttons"? You do realize I changed those hints, since those are NOT the usual new here buttons that tag tiddlers, correct? They are new here buttons that add links to the parent tiddlers inside the text field of the child tiddlers.

David Gifford

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May 9, 2020, 11:00:34 PM5/9/20
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Hi Selfire

Birthe C is probably right, you probably had already tweaked a viewtemplate/title button before installing Stroll, and that is causing the conflict.

David Gifford

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May 9, 2020, 11:12:19 PM5/9/20
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Hi Ed

I just added to the documentation to reflect these two items. Thank you for bringing them to my attention!

David Gifford

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May 9, 2020, 11:14:17 PM5/9/20
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Hi Edu

I peed at the previews plugin and don't foresee it causing problems with Stroll. Not sure why it would not have worked in TiddlyBlink.

Keep in mind that the preview plugin will not work if you are going to use it for generating static HTMLs.

David Gifford

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May 9, 2020, 11:16:06 PM5/9/20
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Hi Martin and Birthe

I have removed that line from the StyleSheet. I think it had been for the parallel tab in TiddlyBlink. Also, I renamed the stylesheet "$:/.giffmex/.Stylesheet4Stroll."

Gerrit Beine

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May 10, 2020, 5:12:14 AM5/10/20
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Hi Dave,

yes, that's recognized ;-)
In the configuration of the view toolbar the description for journal entries was not shown and the description for new tiddler was the one for the journal entry.
I've fixed this.
Also, in the configuration the icon for the new tiddler was the same as for the new journal entry.
I changed the icon for new tiddler to the same one that is used in the view toolbar.

HTH
So long..

Gerrit

David Gifford

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May 10, 2020, 8:53:50 AM5/10/20
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But I still don't know how to open and read your diff files...



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Saq Imtiaz

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May 10, 2020, 8:55:51 AM5/10/20
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Open in any text editor Dave, they show you what has changed in that particular file compared to the original.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.

David Gifford

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May 10, 2020, 9:01:15 AM5/10/20
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ok thanks Saq!




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Gerrit Beine

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May 10, 2020, 2:17:30 PM5/10/20
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Hi Dave,

you can use diffutils or patch for it, depending on your OS.

The diff is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff
And on Unixes, the patch tool is available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(Unix)
I use ordinary text editors to read these files and diff and patch to work with them.

HTH

Gerrit
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Dave Parker

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May 11, 2020, 1:19:10 AM5/11/20
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Hey Dave, not sure if you know yet (I didn't read this entire thread), but you got a mention in the YouTube thing on "alternatives to roam"

https://youtu.be/KJdnZpUXluQ

David Gifford

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May 11, 2020, 8:33:53 AM5/11/20
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Cool! Thanks for letting me know, Dave!

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:19 AM Dave Parker <cedard...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Dave, not sure if you know yet (I didn't read this entire thread), but you got a mention in the YouTube thing on "alternatives to roam"

https://youtu.be/KJdnZpUXluQ

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Mohammad

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May 11, 2020, 10:55:34 AM5/11/20
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WoW! You are a TW celebrity! ;-)



On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 5:03:53 PM UTC+4:30, David Gifford wrote:
Cool! Thanks for letting me know, Dave!

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:19 AM Dave Parker <cedard...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Dave, not sure if you know yet (I didn't read this entire thread), but you got a mention in the YouTube thing on "alternatives to roam"

https://youtu.be/KJdnZpUXluQ

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Jakob

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May 13, 2020, 5:33:28 AM5/13/20
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What's a good way to make a stroll site publicy available? Static exports kill all the nice features but loading the full tiddler takes far too long. 

Specifically, how did you host and deploy the sample stroll site at https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html? Any tips would be amazing.

Tony K

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May 13, 2020, 5:38:43 AM5/13/20
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Hello Jakob, it is just a static HTML file, you can "copy paste" it on your computer / phone and use it 

David Gifford

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May 13, 2020, 7:56:17 AM5/13/20
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Hi Jakob, I think you are asking about hosting your Stroll online. Stroll is ideally for using locally on your computer, but there are hosting options available.


In my case, years ago I bought my own site, so I just use FileZilla to upload the entire html file of Stroll to my site.

I agree, it is frustrating that exporting static htmls lose valuable features. But the gain is that they are faster to download. There is always a tradeoff!

I hope you find a solution that works for you.


On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:33 AM 'Jakob' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
What's a good way to make a stroll site publicy available? Static exports kill all the nice features but loading the full tiddler takes far too long. 

Specifically, how did you host and deploy the example stroll site ate https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html? Any tips would be amazing.


Am Donnerstag, 7. Mai 2020 17:04:17 UTC+2 schrieb David Gifford:
Hi everyone

Stroll is a TiddlyWiki adaptation imitating certain features of Roam to help users easily see connections between their notes and navigate between them. Features include:
  • bi-directional links,
  • autocompletion when linking,
  • renaming of links upon changing tiddler titles,
  • side-by-side editing of multiple notes.
Stroll is the successor to TiddlyBlink. I do not plan to update TiddlyBlink (or its cousin Idea Stew) from here on out, except may be to upgrade to new versions of TiddlyWiki.

I have uploaded Stroll to its official home: https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html.

I am hoping that its detailed tutorial will help introduce TiddlyWiki to a new generation of non-techy users. I am also hoping that its similarity to Roam will make it attractive to those who enjoy Roam but are concerned about privacy issues for some of their information, or who won't be able to afford Roam when it begins charging a subscription.

Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback during the experimental phase, and especially to Saq Imtiaz for creating and adapting his Stories plugin for Stroll's needs. And thanks to all of you in advance for your continued feedback and your promotion of Stroll as an easy way of getting people added to the TiddlyWiki community.

Blessings.

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Jakob

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May 13, 2020, 8:02:40 AM5/13/20
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Hi David,

thanks! That's what I'm doing now (edit locally, save html -> upload github pages). It's a bit cumbersome but I guess there currently isn't a much better option.

Best,
Jakib
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Edgaras

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May 13, 2020, 8:39:37 AM5/13/20
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David small thingy, would it be possible to hide the line in the footnotes if no links are present?

David Gifford

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May 13, 2020, 9:09:26 AM5/13/20
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Hi Edgaras, not that I know of, the way I did it. Would require a complete reconfiguration.

Edgaras

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May 13, 2020, 9:19:07 AM5/13/20
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Wow I see! I thought I could find a way to hide that <hr> line somewhere in the structure files.

David Gifford

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May 13, 2020, 9:22:48 AM5/13/20
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On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:19 AM Edgaras <edgar...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow I see! I thought I could find a way to hide that <hr> line somewhere in the structure files.

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Faldrian

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May 14, 2020, 4:44:05 PM5/14/20
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Hi!

Thanks for the Stroll-Plugin, I like the backlinking and sometimes the two-river view can come in handy. It's a good assortment of enhancements to the standard TW. :)

I have some comments... and I hope I'm not intruding into a community that has a modus operandi that I don't get and show bad behaviour.

  1. There is a caption missing on "$:/.giffmex/ViewToolbar/new-note-here". The button content only has the image, but no text. You can check when you use the "more" menu - the "new tiddler here" is the only one without text.
  2. I was also missing the animation, but you offered a fix earlier in the thread. My feeling would be, that this animation duration change should not be part of the plugin, as it changes TWs behaviour to your liking and is not really needed for the plugin to work.
  3. Just a meta thing - and I don't want to impose something! - I would suggest using some online code repository for this. Benefits would be:
    1. I had to scroll along the whole thread to see if somebody already reported the missing button text. On an online repository (github/bitbucket/...) I could have looked in the bug tracker tab and read the titles. :)
    2. There is a bug tracker, so different improvements / bug reports could be handled indepenently, instead in a long thread chronologically
    3. People could make pull requests and the system would deal with merging the code by itself. You would still be in control what ends up in the code, but you would not have to worry about diff files and people could suggest improvements and deliver the code for it and you would only have to check and merge into the development version.
    4. A list of Changes / a history of the code would be available, this may be interesting and helpful to see what changes were made
thanks again, I will follow the future changes and am looking forward how this develops. :)

David Gifford

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May 14, 2020, 5:49:15 PM5/14/20
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On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 3:44:05 PM UTC-5, Faldrian wrote:
Hi!

Thanks for the Stroll-Plugin, I like the backlinking and sometimes the two-river view can come in handy. It's a good assortment of enhancements to the standard TW. :)

Thanks!

I have some comments... and I hope I'm not intruding into a community that has a modus operandi that I don't get and show bad behaviour.

You did fine! You will find people are pretty friendly here, but also straightfoward when errors need correcting.
  1. There is a caption missing on "$:/.giffmex/ViewToolbar/new-note-here". The button content only has the image, but no text. You can check when you use the "more" menu - the "new tiddler here" is the only one without text.
I think I already fixed this with the help of Gerrit Beine earlier in this thread. Perhaps you downloaded your copy before I changed that. Check it at the Stroll site. More menu shows text.
 
  1. I was also missing the animation, but you offered a fix earlier in the thread. My feeling would be, that this animation duration change should not be part of the plugin, as it changes TWs behaviour to your liking and is not really needed for the plugin to work.
Good point, I will change it back to the annoying default behavior. :-)  You are right that it is not an essential part of Stroll, and I would like to keep this as lean and as similar to an out of the box Tiddlywiki as possible.
  1. Just a meta thing - and I don't want to impose something! - I would suggest using some online code repository for this. Benefits would be:
    1. I had to scroll along the whole thread to see if somebody already reported the missing button text. On an online repository (github/bitbucket/...) I could have looked in the bug tracker tab and read the titles. :)
    2. There is a bug tracker, so different improvements / bug reports could be handled indepenently, instead in a long thread chronologically
    3. People could make pull requests and the system would deal with merging the code by itself. You would still be in control what ends up in the code, but you would not have to worry about diff files and people could suggest improvements and deliver the code for it and you would only have to check and merge into the development version.
    4. A list of Changes / a history of the code would be available, this may be interesting and helpful to see what changes were made
I agree, that
1) adding it to GitHub and also
2) packaging the bits that are not parts of other plugins into a proper Stroll plugin
would be good steps for Stroll. I am quite willing for someone who is a longstanding member of the Google Group to adopt Stroll and host it on GitHub, and I could redirect from my site to that one. Seriously, I am not possessive of it, and I am ready to set this project aside and get back to focusing on using Stroll for my own needs.

FYI I don't know how to package plugins, and I find GitHub hard to understand, so I don't have the patience for those two additional learning curves. My many interests are elsewhere. I am not a coder, just someone with years of experience with TiddlyWiki who cobbles stuff together and hopes it works. And I have lots of generous ad knowledgeable friends here who have helped me figure things out when I got stuck. I just wanted to see how much of Roam functionality I could create in a TiddlyWiki, and I got fairly close on the basic functionality. Of course Roam has a lot more going for it than I can replicate, and TiddlyWiki has a lot that Roam does not. I don't see them as rivals, but similar tools for different needs / markets.

Blessings!

Timo Scheffler

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May 15, 2020, 3:39:45 AM5/15/20
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Hi!
Thanks for the answer. :)

I think you have not fixed that, at least a current import of the file
from your tiddlywiki does not change anything and a look at
https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html#%24%3A%2F.giffmex%2FViewToolbar%2Fnew-note-here
seems to show that the button still has no text content.

Btw. I think that getting into writing plugins is quite hard on
tiddlywiki... or I did not find the up-to-date "how to do this / best
practises" tutorial. I want to start writing a plugin but my tries with
folder based plugin development are still throwing errors. :D But that's
a topic for another thread / more intense google search on my part. ^^

On 14.05.20 23:49, David Gifford wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 3:44:05 PM UTC-5, Faldrian wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Thanks for the Stroll-Plugin, I like the backlinking and sometimes
> the two-river view can come in handy. It's a good assortment of
> enhancements to the standard TW. :)
>
>
> *Thanks! *
>
>
> I have some comments... and I hope I'm not intruding into a
> community that has a modus operandi that I don't get and show bad
> behaviour.
>
> *You did fine! You will find people are pretty friendly here, but also
> straightfoward when errors need correcting.*
>
> 1. There is a caption missing on
> "$:/.giffmex/ViewToolbar/new-note-here". The button content only
> has the image, but no text. You can check when you use the
> "more" menu - the "new tiddler here" is the only one without text.
>
> *I think I already fixed this with the help of Gerrit Beine earlier in
> this thread. Perhaps you downloaded your copy before I changed that.
> Check it at the Stroll site. More menu shows text.*
>  
>
> 1. I was also missing the animation, but you offered a fix earlier
> in the thread. My feeling would be, that this animation duration
> change should not be part of the plugin, as it changes TWs
> behaviour to your liking and is not really needed for the plugin
> to work.
>
> *Good point, I will change it back to the annoying default behavior.
> ***:-)  *You are right that it is not an essential part of Stroll, and I
> would like to keep this as lean and as similar to an out of the box
> Tiddlywiki as possible.*
>
> 1. Just a meta thing - and I don't want to impose something! - I
> would suggest using some online code repository for this.
> Benefits would be:
> 1. I had to scroll along the whole thread to see if somebody
> already reported the missing button text. On an online
> repository (github/bitbucket/...) I could have looked in the
> bug tracker tab and read the titles. :)
> 2. There is a bug tracker, so different improvements / bug
> reports could be handled indepenently, instead in a long
> thread chronologically
> 3. People could make pull requests and the system would deal
> with merging the code by itself. You would still be in
> control what ends up in the code, but you would not have to
> worry about diff files and people could suggest improvements
> and deliver the code for it and you would only have to check
> and merge into the development version.
> 4. A list of Changes / a history of the code would be
> available, this may be interesting and helpful to see what
> changes were made
>
> *I agree, that
> *
> *1) adding it to GitHub and also
> *
> *2) packaging the bits that are not parts of other plugins into a proper
> Stroll plugin
> *
> *would be good steps for Stroll. I am quite willing for someone who is a
> longstanding member of the Google Group to adopt Stroll and host it on
> GitHub, and I could redirect from my site to that one. Seriously, I am
> not possessive of it, and I am ready to set this project aside and get
> back to focusing on using Stroll for my own needs.
> *
> *
> *
> *FYI I don't know how to package plugins, and I find GitHub hard to
> understand, so I don't have the patience for those two additional
> learning curves. My many interests are elsewhere. I am not a coder, just
> someone with years of experience with TiddlyWiki who cobbles stuff
> together and hopes it works. And I have lots of generous ad
> knowledgeable friends here who have helped me figure things out when I
> got stuck. I **just wanted to see how much of Roam functionality I could
> create in a TiddlyWiki, and I got fairly close on the basic
> functionality. Of course Roam has a lot more going for it than I can
> replicate, and TiddlyWiki has a lot that Roam does not. I don't see them
> as rivals, but similar tools for different needs / markets.
> *
> *
> *
> *Blessings!
> *
>
> thanks again, I will follow the future changes and am looking
> forward how this develops. :)
>
> --
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> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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David Gifford

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May 15, 2020, 8:27:31 AM5/15/20
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 2:39 AM 'Timo Scheffler' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi!

Thanks for the answer. :)

I think you have not fixed that, at least a current import of the file
from your tiddlywiki does not change anything and a look at
https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html#%24%3A%2F.giffmex%2FViewToolbar%2Fnew-note-here
seems to show that the button still has no text content.

Maybe refresh your browser? When I go to that link and hover on the button in either the tiddler text or the viewtoolbar, I get a tooltip. When I click the more menu, there is text next to the icon. Edit the tiddler and you will see it has a description field and a content field. When I click the button it does what it is supposed to, create a new tiddler with a link to the originating tiddler.  So what exactly are you talking about?
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Timo Scheffler

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May 15, 2020, 10:21:16 AM5/15/20
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Yep, still had the old version in browser cache, that solved it.

On 15.05.20 14:27, David Gifford wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 2:39 AM 'Timo Scheffler' via TiddlyWiki
> <tiddl...@googlegroups.com <mailto:tiddl...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> Thanks for the answer. :)
>
> I think you have not fixed that, at least a current import of the file
> from your tiddlywiki does not change anything and a look at
> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html#%24%3A%2F.giffmex%2FViewToolbar%2Fnew-note-here
> seems to show that the button still has no text content.
>
>
> *Maybe refresh your browser? When I go to that link and hover on the
> button in either the tiddler text or the viewtoolbar, I get a tooltip.
> When I click the more menu, there is text next to the icon. Edit the
> tiddler and you will see it has a description field and a content field.
> When I click the button it does what it is supposed to, create a new
> tiddler with a link to the originating tiddler.  So what exactly are you
> talking about?*
> <mailto:tiddlywiki%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:tiddlywiki%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fb031a33-8147-4f43-8402-fc09700d107e%40googlegroups.com
> >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fb031a33-8147-4f43-8402-fc09700d107e%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
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