Andy Matushak Notes and Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Sorry to ask this question. Recently I see in twitter and also here there is a talk on Andy notes page https://notes.andymatuschak.org/,

Some people say it is very impressive. As a basic user of Tiddlywiki, I think  vanilla TW is better than Andy notes!

Can anyone simply explain, what it has, TW does not have in empty.html (vanilla version)?

--Mohammad

[David Gifford]

I do like the transclude tiddler in popup upon hovering over a link. I know Anne-Laure Le Cunff was trying to replicate that feature.

Sliding the story river horizontally is kind of neat and over all fairly intuitive, but in one aspect is confusing - I clicked on a number of links, but then some were no longer open when I slide the scrollbar at the bottom. I think the idea is, notes opened from links in a note only open one at a time. If you click another link from the original note, the first note you opened from there will close and the second will replace it. The rule makes sense, it is just my years working with tiddlywiki that makes it confusing to me.

I do like the 'clean' feel to it as a reading experience. No sidebar, just a minimal top bar. Feels like a 'dynamic' html produced by whatever app he is using.

For my money, I would prefer the flexibility of TW. But I do admit it is nice-looking.

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

@David Thanks to a good friend who's very talented, I'm actually making progress!

[David Gifford]

oh and I just sent you a clunky version I whipped up this afternoon!

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

I just saw it! Looks amazing. Let's talk about it but I want to include this in my TW static website generator tutorial, much easier to implement than the way I went about it. Thank you!

[Chris Aldrich]

I'm sure it's prior art, but Ward Cunningham, the godfather of wikis, created the Smallest Federated Wiki at IndieWebCamp 2011, which looks and acts a lot like Andy's wiki. Here's an example: http://fed.wiki/. If I recall correctly a lot of it was written in node.js and it's available on GitHub for those interested.

Incidentally, for those interested in wiki UI and blue sky ideas, I'm hosting a wiki-related IndieWebCamp session this weekend: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/04/gardens-and-streams-wikis-blogs-and-ui-a-pop-up-indiewebcamp-session-j9bg0pJDBgBD 

Everyone is welcome to join and it should be an interesting group of people.

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Just signed up to the event, thank you! And I recently discovered fed.wiki — definitely can see the inspiration. Andy is known for his passion for tools for thoughts so his notebook is probably a mix of all of these + his own ideas.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Thanks Chris, I’ll also try to come along at the weekend too.

I’ve had one or two discussions with Ward over the years. He started FedWiki at almost exactly the same time as I started TW5 in 2011, both of us making a conscious effort to reimagine what we’d previously made. Ward is phenomenal: he’s been running weekly video chat sessions since 2012 or so, which eventually inspired me to start TiddlyWiki Hangouts (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVT_2PPd-1p34gGCQ5qpwC8QdykxVAI3u), which petered out for various reasons, but he’s still going strong.

I believe that the kernel of FedWiki is the desire to avoid the social problems that eventually beset the original C2 wiki that Ward founded: as I understand it, it was a big success in the early days until suddenly it became a toxic environment where people had bad experiences. FedWiki eschews the idea of a single shared space in favour of a federation of individually owned spaces, with protocols for linking and transcluding across the federation, and ways of visualising the provenance of a page that started elsewhere.

Meanwhile, for my part, the most important thing about TW5 is that it is an attempt to devise an algebra of tiddlers that was rich enough to build the entire user interface. Everything else that is distinctive/unorthodox about TW5 is really just the logical consequence of the constraint of building it as a truly serverless browser-based app.

With our puny human lifetimes I can’t imagine ever having enough time to do explore everything that I’d like, so I’m very grateful to have the chance to vicariously share the journey of projects like FedWiki, Roam, and Andy Matuschak’s notes.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Mohammad]

Thanks everybody for input!

@David

So, horizontal story river and popup on mouse hover are two big differences.

@Chris

Great info, specially the fedwiki!

--Mohammad

[Mark Kerrigan]

Hello Mohammad,

Hopefully you see this, is there a video link for the talk you mention in your original post?

Thanks

Mark Kerrigan

[Mohammad]

Hello Mark,

 I just reared to Andy notes page https://notes.andymatuschak.org/,

--Mohammad