tiddlyworld - how dropdown in MainMenu

[twgrp]

For the community site, http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/

(...that I'm thrilled to see that you guys are joining in to improve!
- Tobias, it looks AWESOME now!)

I'm trying to make a small dropdown menu for each MainMenu section.
Attempts include;

DropDownMenuPlugin [1];
http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#DropDownMenuDemo
...but that plugin makes menu items too wide for MainMenu though. And

NestedSlidersPlugin [2]
http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainMenu_NSP
...but I'm not sure NSP works correctly with TiddlySpace because the
floating tiddler is displayed some 2-3 inches too low down! I'm
raising this issue separately [3]

- however my question is generally if you have any 'best solution' to
easily make a drop down menu of that kind that can be put into
MainMenu. Also, because tiddlyworld is open for all to improve, it
should be fairly straight on.

Thanks

:-)



[1] http://tw.lewcid.org/#DropDownMenuPlugin
[2] http://tiddlytools.com/#NestedSlidersPlugin
[3] http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/40e06a41630c2ba4

[Måns]

Hi twgrp

> I'm trying to make a small dropdown menu for each MainMenu section.

...
> NestedSlidersPlugin [2]http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainMenu_NSP
I've made an attempt with MainTopics http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainTopics

However I don't know how to make that work from the topMenu (div id
mainMenu) - NestedSlider popups are clipped by the div... [1]
I tried to make the popups show by adding: #mainMenu {overflow:auto;}
(looks *very bad*)- I'd really like to know how to add the popup
behaviour of goToPlugin to that of nestedslidersPlugin...

Cheers Måns Mårtensson


[1]http://groups.google.dk/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/
6bef4b0943ca32e/7fd58ad3a7a102e1?hl=da&lnk=gst&q=nestedsliders
+popup#7fd58ad3a7a102e1

[Tobias Beer]

Hi twgrp and Måns,

1) I have tried to get the nested popup to display outside the
MainMenu and failed. Maybe there is something missing in
NestedSlidersPlugin ...something which - well - doesn't make those
sliders nested in the sense of them being inside the place where they
were called for, but more like genuine TW-popups.

I guess that's a mystery that Eric needs to solve.

2) The better alternative for the MainMenu seems thus to be
DropDownMenuPlugin, the appearance of which can easily be changed via
css.

Cheers, Tobias.

[Måns]

I strongly believe that Tobias' popupMacro (mod of Saq's original)
http://popup.tiddlyspace.com/ could provide a realtime dynamic
mainmenu based on tags.
Saverio started a thread [1] where Tobias made a good example [2]..

I wonder if Tobias would make a MainMenu for tiddlyworld which:
1) Automagically fills the MainMenu with dropdown buttons labelled
with titles tagged with i.e. MainTopic...
2) pops up a list of tiddlers tagged with corresponding menulabel

That would be awesome :-)

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[1]http://groups.google.dk/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/

ba0f73fbd276e0/c2a2596d99c4e456?hl=da#c2a2596d99c4e456
[2]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2040050/group/2010.10.06%20popup
%20saverio.html

On 11 Okt., 12:20, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi twgrp> I'm trying to make a small dropdown menu for each MainMenu section.
> ...
> > NestedSlidersPlugin [2]http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainMenu_NSP
>

> I've made an attempt with MainTopicshttp://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainTopics

[Tobias Beer]

> I strongly believe that Tobias' popupMacro

Sounds reasonable But, I have yet to put onhover back into it and then
release that much fixed and enhanced version. Once that is there it
would be doing what we want without worrying about how to get those
listitems to appear outside the MainMenu (with a fixed height) ...a
problem which is exactly the same for DropDownMenuDemo as it is for
NestedSlidersPlugin ...there must be some awfully simple solution for
either ...yet I can't seem to figure it out.

Tobias.

[Måns]

Hi Tobias

Is it possible to make <<dropdown>> work on a generated list??
Maybe even sth like:
<<matchTags {{\n** [[Current|%0]]\n** [[Notes|Note%0]]\n** [[Proposed|
Pro%0]]}} "" MainTopic>><<dropdown>>

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

This *almost* works:
[[template2]]
<<tiddler template2##MainTopics>>/%
!MainTopics
<<forEachTiddler where 'tiddler.tags.contains("MainTopic")'
sortBy 'tiddler.fields["number"]'
write
'"<<tiddler template2##list with:[["+tiddler.title+"]]$)) "'>>
!list
<<popup "$1"
[[Current|$1]][[Notes|Note$1]][[Proposed|Pro$1]] arrow:''>>
!end %/

However [[label|link]] and newline is ignored...

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

> This *almost* works:
Checkout: http://twv.tiddlyspace.com/

Cheers

[Måns]

changed:

!list
<<popup "$1"
[[Current|$1]][[Notes|Note$1]][[Proposed|Pro$1]] arrow:''>>

to
!list
<<popup "$1"
*[[Current|$1]]
*[[Notes|Note$1]]
*[[Proposed|Pro$1]] arrow:''>>
and the first listitem link started to work :-)

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Mans,

That's neat! I would prefer either using <<tagging tag>> in the
corresponding sections as I have done in http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com
or to manually edit those lists for the main menu categories... to
have control over the order of things.

Cheers, Tobias.

[Måns]

Hi Tobias

> That's neat! I would prefer either using <<tagging tag>> in the

> corresponding sections as I have done inhttp://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com

> or to manually edit those lists for the main menu categories... to
> have control over the order of things.

I wanted to set it up to create links to tiddlers which might not
exist yet - to follow Matias' suggested line of thought in
MainMenu_NSP [1]
Therefore:

*[[Notes|Note$1]]
*[[Proposed|Pro$1]]

However the PopUpMacro doesn't allow a list of tiddlers - which is
needed if I want to pass the [["+tiddler.title+"]] into first
level....
I have this problem all the time - when I want to throw in a fetched
tiddler title into a template which again has to transclude another
template - quite mindboggling actually -
It would be really nice if you could pass an argument (injection
through a layer) transparently... like:
<<fET fetch tagging <<template 1 with: [["+tiddler.title+"]]\>\> >>
template1
<<popup template2 with: "injected [["+tiddler.title+"]]" >>
template2
**[[link| $1]]
**[[link|foo$1]]
**[[link|bar$1]]
Sometimes you'd really like to be able to put several tiddlermacros
into the same macro - it gets a bit too hairy I'm afraid...

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[1] http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com/#MainMenu_NSP

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Måns,

So, essentially, what you really want is to not only to be able to
specify a tiddler that is rendered into the popup but also to hand
down some parameters as you would when using transclusion with
(evaluated) parameters. Something that might look like...

<<popup "open this" template:"injected" tiddler:"SomeTid"
params:"%title% %modified%" >>

...which, abstractly speaking, translates to: render <<tiddler
injected with: {{SomeTid.title}} {{SomeTid.modified}}>> into a popup
opened by a button called "open this", right?!?

Cheers, Tobias.

[Måns]

Hi Tobias

Hmm - I don't think I'm after getting popups for menuitems labelled
"open this".....

I would prefer if the listtag generated MainMenubuttons would reflect
whats inside each individual menubutton/item, -buttonlabel= 2'nd level
tagged tiddlers i.e.
1'st level:
MainMenu items= popupbuttons labelled 1 pr. tiddler tagged with
"MainTopic"
2'nd level:
Each individual popup shows a list of tiddlers tagged with:
popupbutton label i.e. the popup Showroom shows a
preformatted(configurable) list of links to tiddlers which include the
title of tiddlers tagged with "Showroom" popup Blog shows a list of
links to tiddlers which include the title of tiddlers tagged with Blog
- etc ....
example:

**[[link| $1]]
**[[link|foo$1]]
**[[link|bar$1]]

3'rd level:(not really neccesary in this context- however the
implementation might be optional, offering levels for autogenerating
popupmenus )
Each listitem could be a more generic popupbutton only showing a list
of tiddlers which are tagged with listitemtitles - ...

>1) Automagically fills the MainMenu with dropdown buttons labelled with titles tagged with i.e. MainTopic...

or MainMenu or whatever ...

>2) pops up a list of tiddlers tagged with corresponding menulabel

.. as transcluded links - if a generated tiddlerlinktarget doesn't
exist, clicking the link will produce it...

Hope this explains my line of thought ...

@Tobias
Slightly offtopic - I'm afraid ... however:
I know I'm just dreaming here - I can't deliver one snippet of code
myself -
One of the things I've learned from using TW for a couple of years
now, is that you can change your way of conceptual thinking by
adapting methods delivered by tools already available - and I must say
I have enjoyed this journey so far, getting wider horizons and new
perspectives from "simple" yet powerfull tools delivered by the
community and gifted programmers as yourself...
Thanks a lot for all your great contributions so far Tobias!! - Please
keep on doing what you do so well - both in design and plugin-
development.... It's really inspiring to follow your progress - I
think I see a skyrocketing programmer :-)!!

Sorry - Just had to express some gratitude... for some invaluable work
for the community and TW in general.

Thanks !

Måns Mårtensson

[twgrp]

First off; Hooray for the two of you! I don't know if I'm insulting
one and praising the other by saying it, but from my ant perspective
you are both giants! :-)

If I understand you guys right, there is currently no perfect
solution. However, considering how easy it is to change things in TW,
I think a sufficient existing solution will do.

Måns parameter idea to auto genereate menu items is interesting - but
I think there are so few menu items where it would be applied that
such a general approach might be a bit of an overkill, or am I missing
something? (Maybe you have some thoughts for the future, Måns?) I
should mention, however, that I'm reminded of the various
TreeViewMenu[1] variants that 'menuize' by tag.

Also note that as things evolve I think we'll want other 'level two
content' which may differ from menu item to menu item. (I mean,
considering the intended democratic nature of tworld, the content
there should be a consensus and the static "Current/Notes/Proposed"
may not hold.) (But I do love the concept of having things added
dynamically to the various menu levels simply by tagging.) BTW,
searching for why twv[2] doesn't work, maybe the space in the first
menu item, i.e "Get involved" messes up things?

Regarding Tobias popup [3] - do I get this right:
1) content is added by actual separate menu tiddlers
2) it requires manual CSS fiddling for proper width display

Any alternative routs we have missed? Surely the idea of a multi level
menu in (a horizontal) MainMenu must have been investigated earlier...
altho I'm not sure where to look. Maybe Wolfgangs ambitious menuflex
site[4] has something?

Thanks!

P.S I discovered something funny; the backstage slider in tworld
slides up *behind* the mainmenu! Take a look.

[1] http://twt-treeview-executive.tiddlyspot.com/
[2] http://twv.tiddlyspace.com/#template2
[3] http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com/
[4] http://menuflex.tiddlyspot.com/

[twgrp]

Hang on there, I just found this;

http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/525d83c699fae038/604d86a112907302?lnk=gst&q=mainmenu+dropdown#604d86a112907302

Will try to decipher it but figured you guys perhaps wanted to hear it
as quickly as possible.

:-)

[twgrp]

Sorry, I got too eager. Appears not to work for MainMenu after all -
altho this is the very application Mr.Shulman does address. Maybe it's
a tspace thing?

On Oct 12, 10:11 pm, twgrp <matiasg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hang on there, I just found this;
>

> http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/525d83...

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Måns and Matias,

Thanks for the flattering praises, it's always nice to receive words
of appreciation... on the other hand, I think we all are doing a good
job here, coding or not.

As for the modified PopupMacro... I believe that it might just be the
best way to go. The new version (not yet outthere other than a preview
in the groups [2]) allows for the most flexible positioning and
styling of popup contents, while also allowing for level +2 nested
popups.

> 1) content is added by actual separate menu tiddlers
> 2) it requires manual CSS fiddling for proper width display

re 1) not necessarily... can be sections in the same tiddler (e.g.
hidden sections in the MainMenu) and can contain automatically
generated lists, e.g. via <<tagging Blog>> or <<list ...>>
re 2) of course, it does, but that is not a restriction, it is a much
needed feature!

As Matias suggested - and I kind of agree - to completely "automate"
the menu generation (for TiddlyWorld) would be overkill. On the other
hand, I would not want to lose the ability to manually order menu
items, nor would I want to be forced into having to tag to the
corresponding element only just so that it shows up in the menu.

However, the modded version of PopupMacro that Måns has used for
demonstration purposes should soon be replaced by a more reliable as
well as more flexible one. Though, again, I would say that there
(currently) is no need to apply any of this to TiddlyWorld, I have
written a draft [1] in my TiddlySpace explaining the additions that I
would want to make to (my [modded] version of) PopupMacro ...I guess I
should eventually rename it as it's no longer much of the original. It
would be nice of you were to reply to it in TiddlySpace (as you see
fit).

As for that new version, the simpler (first) part would be to get the
one that I made with respect to Saverio's request [2] back to opening
and closing the popups when hovering the button, instead of onclick...
and maybe to allow the popups to alternatively fadeIn / fadeOut or
slideDown / slideUp.

As for MenuFlex, I think it's more of a ShowCase and as such it is
both impressive and frightening. I would always prefer to adapt
simple, well defined bits that work nicely when put together. Just by
looking at MenuFlex, I would not know where to find for those simple
bits nor how to make them usable on their own.

Cheers, Tobias.

[1] http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com/#%5B%5BPopupMenu%20-%20draft%5D%5D
[2] http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_frm/thread/00ba0f73fbd276e0

[twgrp]

> As for the modified PopupMacro... I believe that it might just be the

> best way to go. [...]

I'm taking Tobias word for it and implemented popup macro - see result
in http://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com
We should definitely update when Tobias new version comes.

To smoothify testing I suggest using MainMenu merely as a wrapper
(correct term?), i.e by <<tiddler MainMenu_popup>>. Using Tobias'
section reference idea made MainMenu_popup pretty compact.

Maybe "wrapping", i.e using <<tiddler>> macro in the actual tiddler
merely to point to things, is a good idea to use *generally* for
collaboration? (and to name the various suggestions on the format
"OriginalName_xxx")? This is to help keep up concensus in the
development process of this, i.e so that things agreed on don't just
change arbitrarily. (Yes, we are on unchartered territory with this
democratic managmement form)

In the MainMenu_popup I revised some of the terms for the subitems
into;
* Current - (unchanged) to show current solution
* Notes - as a place where visitors can add notes, suggestions, ideas,
regarding the section
* PleaseHelp - intended to list the next things to implement, named
PleaeHelp so to encourage participation
(any opinions on this?)

I'm thinking of making the superior "WhatsNext?" tiddler into an
aggregate of all those PleaesHelp tiddlers. Opinions?

Obviously anyone is welcome to improve any-/everything.

:-)

[Måns]

Hi twgrp

> I'm taking Tobias word for it and implemented popup macro - see result

> inhttp://tiddlyworld.tiddlyspace.com

> We should definitely update when Tobias new version comes.

Agree..

> To smoothify testing I suggest using MainMenu merely as a wrapper
> (correct term?), i.e by <<tiddler MainMenu_popup>>. Using Tobias'
> section reference idea made MainMenu_popup pretty compact.

Yep - great!!
However the text in the popups are much too big to my taste

> Maybe "wrapping", i.e using <<tiddler>> macro in the actual tiddler
> merely to point to things, is a good idea to use *generally* for
> collaboration? (and to  name the various suggestions on the format
> "OriginalName_xxx")? This is to help keep up concensus in the
> development process of this, i.e so that things agreed on don't just
> change arbitrarily. (Yes, we are on unchartered territory with this
> democratic managmement form)

I think you are doing a great job - please keep on "pioneering" -

> In the MainMenu_popup I revised some of the terms for the subitems
> into;
> * Current - (unchanged) to show current solution
> * Notes - as a place where visitors can add notes, suggestions, ideas,
> regarding the section
> * PleaseHelp - intended to list the next things to implement, named
> PleaeHelp so to encourage participation
> (any opinions on this?)

Maybe "addHelp" sounds a bit less begging?

> I'm thinking of making the superior "WhatsNext?" tiddler into an
> aggregate of all those PleaesHelp tiddlers. Opinions?

Good idea - I agree :-)

> Obviously anyone is welcome to improve any-/everything.

Thanks
I was wondering if we should implement/embed all videos on Vimeo
tagged "tiddlywiki"(39).
If there's 1 tiddler pr video - tagging them with meaningfull tags -
should give us some more stuff to the basket..

Maybe we should include bookmarkplugin http://bookmarks.tiddlyspace.com/
to speed up the process of collecting TiddlyWiki material which isn't
on TiddlySpace??

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[Tobias Beer]

Well, I think we're at some crossroads here.

I don't much fancy the current MainMenu's contents. It merely gives
the impression of a working draft, which indeed TiddlyWorld currently
is. However, I would think the menu should rather allow access to the
actual contents of the community portal, as if it already were used as
one.

How that portal evolves and how information on some current version or
attached notes on certain sections are managed should really be a
"behind the scenes" kind of thing. For example, a "please help" link
under each menu item does not make sense to me at all, nor do
"current" and "notes". Each of these menu buttons corresponding to
certain sections in the "portal" should open a popup linking to
specific portal contents ...not some general template popup that looks
the same for all menu items.

Instead, the draftlike portal should only have template-ish
placeholders (like those mybb images) up until they are replaced with
real contents.

Therefore, managing (the progress in) TiddlyWorld and actually having
it be a community portal should really be two things. One might even
ask if it makes sense for all those notes and discussions to be
managed in the TiddlyWorld space... or whether there really should be
a TiddlyWorldTeam space where pretty much everyone can participate and
express ideas while ever so often agreed upon changes are rolled out
to the actual "portal" to be.

As a sideboe, menu items should not be wrapped in semantically useless
title wrappers... but instead be styled via css.

Cheers, Tobias.

[twgrp]

On Oct 13, 9:21 pm, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> However the text in the popups are much too big to my taste

I agree. I now changed it to the command I see on Tobias space, i.e
{{noTitle{..}}}
but I'm wondering if there is a default alternative to just make it
whatever size the font for the menu section is.

>>consensus... democratic forum...

> I think you are doing a great job - please keep on "pioneering" -

Well, I hope it will evolve into something that has a life of it's
own. I'm just not competent enough to do this so as you notice I need
someone to hold my hadn for every step. I'm grateful, but I really
wish some TW authority such as Osmosoft saw the value in this.

> Maybe "addHelp" sounds a bit less begging?

I agree it's less begging... but then again, I *am* begging. I changed
it to "Contribute" - better? (I don't think "addHelp" is very clear.)
If you like it, I'll change the names of the associated tiddlers also
(damn, this is where your automation ideas should come in handy...)

> I was wondering if we should implement/embed all videos on Vimeo

GREAT idea!!! To not overcrowd the MainMenu, I'm thinking of putting a
Help section there and move both the videos and the Wiki section into
it. Will do soon.

> Maybe we should include bookmarkplugin  http://bookmarks.tiddlyspace.com/
> to speed up the process of collecting TiddlyWiki material which isn't
> on TiddlySpace??

I just included it. Even after reading the descriptions there I just
don't understand how to use it though - ?

[Måns]

Hi Tobias

> Well, I think we're at some crossroads here.

Aha?

> I don't much fancy the current MainMenu's contents. It merely gives
> the impression of a working draft, which indeed TiddlyWorld currently
> is. However, I would think the menu should rather allow access to the
> actual contents of the community portal, as if it already were used as
> one.

Ok - I see your point!

> How that portal evolves and how information on some current version or
> attached notes on certain sections are managed should really be a
> "behind the scenes" kind of thing. For example, a "please help" link
> under each menu item does not make sense to me at all, nor do
> "current" and "notes". Each of these menu buttons corresponding to
> certain sections in the "portal" should open a popup linking to
> specific portal contents ...not some general template popup that looks
> the same for all menu items.

I am following you :-), and I agree.

> Instead, the draftlike portal should only have template-ish
> placeholders (like those mybb images) up until they are replaced with
> real contents.

Agree - maybe the actual contents should present itself as collected
"talks":
A tiddler gets @authors who discuss the topic from their own space...

> Therefore, managing (the progress in) TiddlyWorld and actually having
> it be a community portal should really be two things. One might even
> ask if it makes sense for all those notes and discussions to be
> managed in the TiddlyWorld space... or whether there really should be
> a TiddlyWorldTeam space where pretty much everyone can participate and
> express ideas while ever so often agreed upon changes are rolled out
> to the actual "portal" to be.

Of course - You are right. The "channels" of published TiddlySpace
material should be monitored in TiddlyWorld.
Discussions based on those channels/topics should take place from
peoples own spaces - not on the TiddlyWorld space itself...
Publishing is a learning experience - it very easy to fill a TW with
data which is outdated or irrelevant ten minutes later...
Especially if creating material and creating the frame for monitoring
material - happens in one place (which btw is *the* typical TW-
trap :-) - I've been there a few times)

> As a sideboe, menu items should not be wrapped in semantically useless title wrappers... but instead be styled via css.

Yep - Aestetics, quality and meaningfull presentation are all
interdependent factors in this strive for creating a TiddlyWorld
space..

Lets get back on track... TiddlyWorld is *not* a new "multi"personal
notebook - but an attempt to create a nice looking and intuitive
portal into the TiddlyVerse, for any TiddlyWiki user - and it should
deliver a clear sitemap for anyone ... at first glance - not to
participate in creating the TiddlyWorld space, but how to get the most
from all possible ressources, including monitoring realtime debate and
development...

Please don't give up Tobias on us - We are climbing a tree with many
branches - and it's very easy to loose focus when trying to figure out
where to find place your foot, to get up...
I think the two discussions 1: the development of a new popupmacro and
2: the MainMenu of TiddlyWorld got mixed up - ...

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

[twgrp]

Tobias -

dammit - I started writing, objecting to your idea about a separate
dev site... but the more I think about it... you're right, LOL!

However, is there an agreement that tiddlyworld (I guess primarily the
MainMenu) encompasses what sections should be included? Would it
fulfill its purpose as more or less a one-stop-shop community site? It
would be very unfortunate to have community members using it only to
later change things and see their previous engagement (such as posts)
lost.

There is one thing I do want to see - but please tell me why I'm
wrong;

I find it frustrating to not be able to "tell" TW's (and I guess
websites in general) when something is not good or if I have an idea
that I believe would benefit them. I think it is close related to the
mere need to express oneself which of course is the base for the whole
social internet craze. For this reason, however tiddlyworld is
manifested, it should be very easy to comment on stuff. And 'easy'
probably means the option to do so while it's in front of you as
opposed to; "interrupting your work, going over to the Forum section
or the Ideas section, explaining what it is you're referring to, ...".
This was the purpose of the Notes tiddlers, but I'm sure it can be
manifested in much better ways. Maybe every single tiddler, i.e the
template of it, has a slider with a comments field? (Hmm, that's
actually interesting!)

Anyway, the point is to really try to predict needs that may arise...
TiddlySpace does open for new possibilities.

Thoughts?

:-)

[Tobias Beer]

> Would it fulfill its purpose as more or less a one-stop-shop community site?

If it were designed for that purpose, it might. Not to be nitpicking,
but the menu as it is now does not give that impression. As for
community features, though possibly not the most welcome solution, it
might be best to have them run on some external services, things like
a forum (myBB or typwwith.me?) or chat (maybe TinyChat or IRC) and
just embedded via iframes.

TypeWith.me could also be used for collaboratively taking notes and
comments.

Another way might be to have those notes or comments on content in
TiddlyWorld work similar to the "Talks" section in my Space...(see
"What everyone says right now...").

Then you would have the tScan macro fetch all comments and have them
displayed in TiddlyWorld (if one so choses to open a not yet existing
slider that displays them). Notes should probably be named like this:
"TiddlyWorld - title of the page" and should thus be saved in your
user space ...or maybe in a dedicated "TiddlyWorld.MyName" space that
you have created ...to not have to keep them in your primary space.

A good question would be how to simplify user interaction, so that one
would only have to click some button to be able to post a note in ones
own space, ... e.g. http://myspace.tiddlyspace.com/#[[TiddlyWorld -
title of the page]]. In order to make that work properly it would be
good if there were global, user specific variables in tiddlyspace
which would allow one to define ones own comments-space to be be used
for taking notes and comments in TiddlyWorld and which could be used
for creating the link that opens your space with a new, not existing
tiddler, already given the proper name, maybe including the current
contents of that page in a blockquote... just like the "reply" button
does today.

On the other hand... notes or even a forum using TypeWith.Me seem a
really appealing and painless variant.

Cheers, Tobias.

[twgrp]

Check out the (renamed) split:

http://community.tiddlyspace.com/
- and -
http://communitydev.tiddlyspace.com/

(I copied it also into the dev space for lack of other idea. And, it's
good sticking to Tobias great theme.)

I think it is time to start a new thread on this. I'm copying Tobias
comments from above into there.

This is really exciting!

:-)

[PMario]

Sry folks,
I got a little bit lost.

Why does a "dropdown" menue discussion cause tiddlyworld to be
splitted ?

There are:
1)tiddlyworld ..
2)community ..
3)communitydev ..

4)showroom ..
5)semantic ..

For me they are somehow related. All of them want to have many
contributors. Some of them deal with the same topics. eg: showroom and
tiddlyworld.

==
I think:

Showroom menue in tiddlyworld space can link to showroom space.
Otherwise there will be duplicates. Even include can be a possibility.
But please no iframes. I do have a good resolution, but there is not
enough space on the screen to do this.

tiddlyworld is an absolutly cool name for the project described in
tiddlyworld space. May be the existing "example/dev" content can be
copied to a dev space, to get tiddlyworld back for its "real" content.
But pleas use only one dev space.

my 2 €ents

On Oct 14, 10:26 pm, twgrp <matiasg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Check out the (renamed) split:
>
> http://community.tiddlyspace.com/

> - and -http://communitydev.tiddlyspace.com/

[twgrp]

On Oct 15, 1:31 am, PMario <pmari...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why does a "dropdown" menue discussion cause tiddlyworld to be splitted ?

The discussion is clearly misnamed by now, but anyway;
It was split because it became unsustainable to use the site itself as
the development place for the site. I guess one could say the mixup of
the real thing with the meta aspects got confusing. Although it is
admittedly
an experimental process.

> There are:
> 1)tiddlyworld ..
> 2)community ..
> 3)communitydev ..

tiddlyworld will be erased. The distinction between 2 and
3 will get clearer as they're cleaned up. BTW, you've been added as
a member so feel free to do whatever you feel is good. While I agree
that "tiddlyworld" is a cool name, I felt that particularly newbies
get confused
enough as it is with all them tiddlyshmiddlys (tiddlywiki, tiddler,
tiddlyspace, tiddlyspot...). I wanted it to be neutral particularly
since the
URL already contains the t word. Also, I kind of like the idea that
the name
refers to what it is and that it rides on an established term i.e "the
tiddlywiki community".

> 4)showroom ..
> 5)semantic ..

I don't quite see how you include 'semantic' in this list (it has a
very different purpose, no?). Showroom is something that I imagine
could be included in the community Showroom
section there but we're not quite there yet - if it is to happen at
all. Showroom is solely Tobias project (as far as I know) whereas the
community site is "the communitys" to develop. Also, the purpose of
showroom may not be quite the same as the purpose of the community
showroom section in spite of the striking similarity in names ;-)

However, I was not aware of Tobias ambitions to have people contribute
to his showroom space though. (The "contributors list" there seem to
be more a tribute to TW titans in general.) But, I can only speak from
the community space view, where the idea is to have anyone put in
information and the community voting etc.

Generally, the community space is aimed at handling the exact problem
you address; there is so much redundance in the dispersed TW community
and you don't know where to find stuff. Look at all the good hearted
plugin
compilations for instance. It is impossible for the poor individual
behind
those TWs to keep them up to date and there is no possibility for the
community to e.g rank the plugins or comment on them etc in those TWs.
Hopefully the benefits with a central and collaborative compiling
reference
place will be evident soon.

Great objections - it helps define the concept!

:-)