An editable tiddler within an (otherwise) ReadOnly Tiddlywiki file

[John Newell]

Is this possible?

A single ( or multiple ) tiddlers that can be used by the reader to take notes .....
in a tiddlywiki file that has had ReadOnly applied to it ?

No sidebar - just a unique tiddler* that has the edit and save ability active in a normal tiddywiki.

( * or multiple tiddlers )

with thanks
John

[Jed Carty]

You could do something like a conditional view template to only have the edit button show up in certain tiddlers. But if someone wanted to and knew a bit of wikitext they could still get around it. You could probably do forum post-like comments on tiddlers using a view template and avoid the confusion of having normal edit buttons on only a few tiddlers.

[Mat]

No comprehensive answer, but I'd say you can use an iframe to actually show another TW inside that one tiddler. The main idea is fairly straightforward if the surrounding system allows it (i.e user rights to save etc) but you'd probably need to tweak the layout since you want it to be inside one tiddler.

<:-)

[John Newell]

Thanks Jed and Mat.

Your ideas provide more thought.... perhaps leading BACK to earlier notions of embedded options .....
which work quite well with the likes of pen.io | evernote | padlet etc
and are totally un-affecting of the integrity of a TW file.

The issue with these options is the reliance on an internet connection.
( for most of my uses of TW as a distributable information package
whether as a book / app / directory / brochure / pseudo-magazine
the reader is MOST OFTEN using their mobile device ( hence - ONLINE )

so, embeds are fine for connected readers

That said - a "neater", more conducive option
that CAN be used on any screen .... ( on or offline )
would be a native tiddler dedicated to allow the reader to take notes, save and later edit them.

any further ideas eagerly sought ....

cheers
JN.

[Jed Carty]

You wouldn't need anything embededd or a connection for what I suggested, it's just a view template on the tiddlers you want to be able to leave notes on. I was thinking that you could have a form like the new discussion post interface on twederation but you would probably have a different display template.

[Josiah]

Ciao John, Jed & Mat

This a very interesting discussion. Conditional editing, if it were easier to get working, IMO, would really help TW step towards becoming a premiere E-book format. And likely to facilitate others types of app too.

One substantive point, Jed made, is the architecture of TW means that a smart programmer could get round the limitations on editing. BUT, when I think into the scenarios a programmer might want to do that I can't really think of a situation they would actually do it.... so I don't think that would be a big issue for e-books.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

Yes, that is why I said that anyone who knew a bit of wikitext could get around it. If you are worried about DRM or something like that than it becomes a much harder problem.

[John Newell]

Hi Guys ( now a small collective )....

Josiah - you GET what I am about : TW already has most of the armory required to BE the best ebook ( posing as a pseudo-app ) out there on the market.
Whilst there are plenty of other applications - the ebook market is STODGY, BORING and UNIMAGINATIVE - yet the conversations and support within this framework - is creative and expressive.

WHAT digital manual / book / directory / catalogue that looks GOOD on all screens / devices
has the ability to allow the reader to take notes, order up, see/hear explanatory media WITHIN IT?

1. Jed ( or others ) => can a simple example within a TW file demonstrate Notetaking + Editing + Saving effectively ( it needs to be within a ReadOnly TW file )
2. It doesn't matter if someone wants to hack it for their own extended purposes or amusement - ( that's just like defacing a book just bought ... ) it doesn't worry me what they do to the file once they have it .....
3. To date I have only "tarted up" the TWs I have distributed - used suitable plugins etc - but with each additional step - the TW's I am working on are taking amazing shape - and offer what JUST DOESN'T EXIST OUT THERE. This may be a considerable deviation from its roots - but as Talky Talky was a step towards a pocket presenter - so, too - with just a couple more tweaks - TW can be the most accessible and useful / responsive on/offline digital print vehicle. ( IMHO )

Would be great to see if we can move this forward.

My intention is to present each of these projects as they are completed.

I am sure you'll be impressed with what TW can do that is quite a new angle......

cheers

[John Newell]

Hi Jed

no - not worried about DRM.
Though Jeremy might want a say on that  which I would obviously respect.

BTW

"telescopic text / StretchText " -
perfect for a LARGE FONT kids book that I am working on
where the child reader can instantly check their sentence completions

( MAGIC )

JN

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi everyone!

My (very simple) approach would be to integrate a tool like https://grosinger.net/tw5-checklist/ and a save-button into one ore multiple tiddlers.

• Maybe hide the checkbox using CSS.
• Of course style the rest for multi-line entries.
  
• Maybe put everyting in a notes section that can be shown or hidden using a button.

This way the text ist stored in the text-field of the tiddler where it is searchable.

The main difficulty I see is saving – not every reader would be enjoying the comfort of TiddlyFox.

Good luck!
Thomas

[BJ]

One of my plugins could be used for this, it allow tiddlers to have an 'application type' and has methods to provide custom edit and view templates for the different applications. I have put a demo here: http://editablereadonly.tiddlyspot.com/
I am modifying this at the moment so it will not be ready for release for a couple of days.

I would say that I am not in favor of hiding stuff with styles (like with the read only theme). I prefer to remove the tags from the buttons and other components that are not to be displayed.

All the best

BJ

[John Newell]

BJ - Hi

Man, you have almost got what I need !!!

I understand it's a quick mock-up that you have created 

and I am appreciative of the effort 

( and I understand it is incomplete - 

• I guess that the other tiddlers such as "Introduction Video" would have NO editable / clickable top icons ( unlike it currently displays )
  
• and that would also apply to $:/snippets/themeswitcher

For my purposes ( mainly being read on MOBILE devices - there is NO need for the sidebar, so other functionality would be provided similar to what was delivered on the Spiritual Quest eBook ( did you get a copy of that ? )

I agree that removal of the un-necessary buttons etc is probably cleaner - 

though my coding limitations keep me restricted to the ReadOnly plugin - 

which has served me well and keep time on project minimal.

I AM VERY KEEN TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE in the upcoming days!!!

Whilst a native TW solution is best -  the other options I have been working with are looking promising as an option

and I would be keen to hear your thoughts - 

HOWEVER : first I will propose the scenario ........

TW eBook / app   

• standalone html file  
• all inclusive viewable on most browsers
  
• some content ( that needs to be time-relevant - eg events/ venue updates - are internet-fed and delivered as embeds )

 the end product :

• is NOT a novel - assume that it is a "reference" work - ( my current Tourism Directory project will suffice )
•  --- accommodation | wineries | attractions | dining | Relaxation | sports | tours | breweries | retailing etc
• This requires the use of tags and workable navigation options ( WITHOUT reader access to a sidebar )
•  --- tags do provide LISTS of same groupings ( as above and by location / other categoies : Eat | Drink | Stay | Play | etc )
• so far - all covered really well......

NEXT - a good marketing tool needs a way for future customers to add notes/dates into Journals / Notepads ( as would other books that create ideas and challenges etc ) - and theres plenty of opportunity for the user / reader / tourist to initiate interaction or bookings with listed clients.

• Other chapters ( / tiddlers / pages ) within the Tourism Directory can be created specifically for the Reader for Notes
• These would likely be located at the beginning or end of each chapter as reference points for their notes
• These Notes Pages would have links to them in the Directory Listings
• These Notes Pages should be UNIQUE, PRIVATE notes that the reader can add to - edit and delete - AND SAVE as neccesary
• As the primary device WILL be a mobile phone the interface needs to be clean - as a fresh tidder is !
• App interaction suddenly becomes a great tool - IF IT SUITS THE USER 
•  ---- some will be comfortable and want to use apps ( eg evernote | pen.zu | "pen.io" etc )  notes taken in-app can appear in their TW pages !
•  ------- these would be embeds - all tested so far are editable on desktop / mobile app / embed within tiddler ....
•  ---- some will not be comfortable - and an editable Tiddler would be the only real alternative.

That is likely FAR MORE info than you would like - but I am "in the groove" with this as it grows more attractive and desirable by the day !!!!

Let's keep in touch 

you have my details ?

if not - connect via @magillamax on tw and I'll get my other connection details to you ( if you are OK with that )

Obviously most of what I learn through development of this and other TW instances for public consumption will be shared around......

cheers and thanks again.....

JN

[John Newell]

Another alternative option to "standalone editable tiddlers" is this free note / journal site 

Have a look at it on your mobile - and imagine that embedded within a tidder as the editable tiddler ....

https://penzu.com/p/1c0aa655

( please advise if it is not visible ) 

cheers John N

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 8:25:05 PM UTC+11, John Newell wrote: