[TW5] Setting up a Tiddlywiki for multiple users

[Yarne Sluimer]

Hi everyone,

After a two day long stretch of researching, testing, hitting some walls, getting back up and trying again. I figured my best shot of setting up this Tiddly for multiple users would be by posting on this community.

I've had quite the problems finding the proper documentation about how to set this up for multiple users and as I'm not an engineer myself getting started is quite the challenge (the store.php either doesn't do it's job or I have no clue what I'm doing wrong, possibly both).

My goals are quite simple and are the following:

- Having users login in to enrayarne.com, this can either be done with a personal or generic login;

- Have them edit and save the wiki. After reloading the page these changes will be added;

- Having version control would be nice but is optional.

I hope some one is able to help me out, otherwise I'd have to get into MediaWiki which I'd hate to do (not because I think it's bad, but because Tiddly5 has everything I want/need).

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Yarne

There are several options for setting up TiddlyWiki5 for access by multiple users, but I'm afraid that all of them require a degree of technical knowledge.

I've had quite the problems finding the proper documentation about how to set this up for multiple users and as I'm not an engineer myself getting started is quite the challenge (the store.php either doesn't do it's job or I have no clue what I'm doing wrong, possibly both).

Are you following the instructions here?

http://tiddlywiki.com/#Saving%20on%20a%20PHP%20Server

It's hard to help figure out what went wrong without more information. Can you describe the steps you took, and what happened?

 

My goals are quite simple and are the following:

- Having users login in to enrayarne.com, this can either be done with a personal or generic login;

Do you want users to log in in order to edit content or do you want them to have to log in in order to be able to see the content?

 

- Have them edit and save the wiki. After reloading the page these changes will be added;

- Having version control would be nice but is optional.

The PHP backend is pretty primitive. It doesn't properly resolve attempts to save the wiki at the same time by different users. If there's a clash and you've overwritten somebody else's changes then you have to use the backups feature to resolve things manually.

 

I hope some one is able to help me out, otherwise I'd have to get into MediaWiki which I'd hate to do (not because I think it's bad, but because Tiddly5 has everything I want/need).

Can you describe your use case in a bit more detail? Other people here may have already tried to accomplish similar things,

Best wishes

Jeremy

 

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Jeremy Ruston
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[Matabele]

Hi

This is fairly easily achieved if a 'most recent version wins' scenario is acceptable. This can be made workable if users create and edit tiddlers in their own private wikis, not in a copy of the master wiki (which might take some time.)

When wishing to update the master, the master is downloaded, edits are dropped onto the master and the master is re-saved as quickly as possible, thus minimising the chances of conflict.

If it is acceptable for users to work on their own sets of tiddlers (sharing the wiki but not the tiddlers) -- then this is even more workable.

regards

[Yarne Sluimer]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for responding!

There are several options for setting up TiddlyWiki5 for access by multiple users, but I'm afraid that all of them require a degree of technical knowledge.

 As for the technical knowledge, I have a friend (as above) that has some PHP knowledge and in two weeks time one will be here with quite a lot of PHP knowledge.

It's hard to help figure out what went wrong without more information. Can you describe the steps you took, and what happened?

- I did follow the instructions on the "Saving on a PHP server" page, it would say "Starting to save wiki" but never actually save the file;

  - The Wikiname: yarne (as set in the store.php);

  - Password: yarne123 (as set in the store.php);

  - Server URL: enrayarne.com/store.php;

  - Upload filename: index.html;

  - The other two we kept on root.

- Then I created a TiddlySpot with the same name (yarne) tried again, still no luck;

  - At this stage I read some things about BidiX and his Upload- and PasswordOptionsPlugin and decided to give that a shot;

  - Created a new wiki, installed the plugins offline so they would actually be installed;

    - First tried the method listed: http://www.wikihow.com/Install-a-Tiddlywiki-Plugin, that didn't work;

    - Then tried adding $/ in front of it which actually gave me a result that I was expecting, but this still didn't allow me to save it without using TiddlySpot;

    - I used TiddlySpot (http://b507wiki.tiddlyspot.com/) that now gives me the error as you can see. It actually did do something this time but I broke it in the process (this was the first time the wiki said "Wiki saved".

- TiddlyWeb is the last option that me and a friend are trying right now, but we don't know if this will end up the way we want it.

Do you want users to log in in order to edit content or do you want them to have to log in in order to be able to see the content?

I would like them to log in for both editing and reading at the same time.

The PHP backend is pretty primitive. It doesn't properly resolve attempts to save the wiki at the same time by different users. If there's a clash and you've overwritten somebody else's changes then you have to use the backups feature to resolve things manually.

This wouldn't happen in the way I/we would use it. The application I have would have more reading action and about 3-5 edits/additions per week. 

Can you describe your use case in a bit more detail? Other people here may have already tried to accomplish similar things

I'll write it step by step with possibilities that would work for me/us.

1. Login to enrayarne.com

  - With a generic login for edit only;

    - Only one person at a time to prevent the edit at the same time possibility.

  - With a generic login for read only.

2. Edit/add a tiddler

  - Using autosave (or press the button) the changes will be saved and the file should be overwritten on the server.

    - Either overwrite the index.html or save to a database which then pulls the most recent version as the index.html.

3. Reload the page 

  - View the changes that you made previously.

I'm not looking to manually upload the document every time as this takes away from the experience and thus won't be used because the threshold is to high.

I see this wiki being applicable to almost every person/project group/company (web based) because of the UIX. But with the way the documentation is spread out it is hard to get into. A beginners guide would be awesome. I'm already recommending it to everyone in my field, even though we haven't gotten it to run the way we want to yet.

[Darren Wigfield]

I'm trying to accomplish something similar.  In my environment, I can't set up a server of any kind.  This is why TiddlyWiki is a great solution.  I'd like to drop it on a network share and have myself and members of my team be able to read and edit it.  The problem is how to avoid people writing over each others' edits. 

The best solution I've found is using this plugin: http://www.minormania.com/tiddlylock/tiddlylock.html

However, I can't imagine that plugin will work with TiddlyWiki 5.  Now I'm stuck between implementing a soon-to-be-obsolete TiddlyWiki, using TiddlyLock or waiting to see if Version 5 gets any multi-user support.  I'm kind of torn, and would appreciate anyone's thoughts.

[Silvie Luisa Brázdilová]

Hello Darren,

I am in the same situation as you. The plugin does not work for me either (I try to copy it according to a manual but with no success), and according to you message it may be due to the versions incompatibility).

Have you solved your issue already? 

Thanks,

Silvie 

Dne pátek, 1. srpna 2014 18:51:43 UTC+2 Darren Wigfield napsal(a):

[David Wright]

Hi has there been any solution yet that works basically as the old tiddlylock plugin?

scenario is simple, but seemly difficult to find a solution;

- TW5 on a shared network drive.

- multiple users access TW5 via ie 10 or 11

- while most users are only viewing, the need to avoid simultaneous updates overwriting each other is critical

a solution with html+tiddlyIE, or using HTA would be awesome.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi David

Hi has there been any solution yet that works basically as the old tiddlylock plugin?

No, I've no plans to implement similar functionality for the TW5 core. The trouble is that we don't have atomic file operations available which means that there is a small window of time when the lock can be stolen. So I don't believe that this functionality can be reliably implemented.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

 

scenario is simple, but seemly difficult to find a solution;

- TW5 on a shared network drive.

- multiple users access TW5 via ie 10 or 11

- while most users are only viewing, the need to avoid simultaneous updates overwriting each other is critical

a solution with html+tiddlyIE, or using HTA would be awesome.

 

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[Robert Harvey]

We are stuck in a locked down, IE only environment and I was using a Classic Tiddly stored on a network folder with the .hta hack so our team of 5 could all edit it. They could open the options panel, save their name for editing, and it all seemed to work.

We recently got IE11 so I upgraded to TiddlyWiki v5 (for the preview window, among other things) - but now if one person goes to the control panel and sets their name - it overwrites the setting for all users.

Is this a limitation of TW5 or the IE11/HTA/Shared Folder model? I can't find anything online about it being a problem - or a solution!