TWC: Hosting migration - online usage - passwording - saving=> Any better way ??

[mark]

I have posted here before and gotten some very helpful help here too -
so I am hoping someone will help me again as I am really, really stuck now.

My TWC lives in a hosted space and has been there for quite a while now.

The trouble right is that problems made me change hosting providers and
migration was very easy for everything BUT my TWC.

It seems the TiddlyHome System gets peevish when moved and then stops
allowing the file to save at all.
It did this before when I had to move it too - it just quits saving.
I've no idea what I did that got it saving again - I just poked at it
for a very long time until it started working again somehow...
(Yes, that is not very methodical, I agree.)

My biggest concern boils down to wanting it online for access from
anyplace for editing & saving.
The password function is secondary as I can protect a directory easily
enough.
(I know how to do that from cPanel.)

So here I have a TWC instance with the various tiddlers in it for the
TiddlyHome System and I ask:

1 - Is there something ELSE which works quickly & easily - which enables
saving to a hosted space - and is simpler than the TiddlyHome System for
TWC please ??

2 - To remove whatever changed in my TWC by the TiddlyHome System -
which exact tiddlers do I need to delete, please ??

3 - Are there other settings changes I must make to change from using
the TiddlyHome System to some other means of saving it online ??

Other pertinent info:
Previously Måns Mårtensson had helped me with a zip file containing a
version of store.php and a blank TWC - I never got that to work & don't
know why - it did not save for me at all.

I have also tried MicroTiddlyServer (http://exar.ch/microtiddlyserver/)
and it also failed to save online for me.

It may be that I'm a total screw-up and that I'm getting stuff all wrong
- I can accept that.

I also must add that the way I see it there are things about the
TiddlyHome System which I cannot find out, like:
Will it work without any password ??
What do it's extra settings mean ??
Etc...

These other options, despite seeming simpler - also simply do not work
for me and I do not know how to make them work.
(For example=> permissions are supposed to be changed to 777 - but most
modern hosting will lock you out now if it is higher than 755...!)

Would someone please guide me patiently here so that I can continue to
be a very happy TWC user ?!?

Thank You for any help.

mark

[smallhagrid]

I must say I am very discouraged and saddened with Tiddlywiki as a whole right now.

TW5 is of no use or interest to me - and it seems as if there is nobody around anymore who is willing to help a struggling TWC user like myself.

I have searched dilligently - gotten & tried every server-side option I can find - and NOTHING works correctly for me.

I have created a whole new iteration of TWC on my hosted space for each and the best I ever get is the 'uploading to...' message, and then...
Nothing more.

I don't know enough about MySQL and/or PHP to make that work and I am in no way a coder - just a guy who really likes using Tiddlywiki from anyplace I happen to be.

Would someone please help me to get TWC to work again, please ??

Thanks.

[smallhagrid]

Wow.
Looks like this must be voodoo for real and nobody knows nuttin, not no way, not no how.

BTW, on a related note - showing clearly that even after 20+ years as a tech I am NOT any sort of coder=>
Given that there are maybe 8 totally different ways to save the data from a local browser to hosted space for TW, and I've tried any of them I could, and the only one I ever got to work was the TiddlyHome system from Bidix - which seems to be gone and the copy I have of it no longer works even on a fresh install.

Some clever person could make a whole bunch of TWC users VERY happy if they would create an auto-installer for a hosted TW which WORKS !!!

Sorry - I'll quit ranting now...

mark

[Daniel Baird]

I agree, setting up hosting is a pain.  Simon and I (we're the tiddlyspot people) decided to make a distributable version of the tiddlyspot hosting rig, but neither of us have time to do it.  And it's not as useful for TW5, so demand for it will go down to nothing soon.

Is there a reason you don't want to just edit locally and use dropbox or something to sync the file around? 

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Daniel Baird
retro objoke: Chuck Norris had a problem so he decided to use regular expressions. Now, every problem in the world is solved.

[mark]

Hello Daniel and thanks for replying.

You wrote:
> Is there a reason you don't want to just edit locally and use dropbox
> or something to sync the file around?

Many small reasons actually...
Sometimes I am on the road for a few days and need info that I keep in
TW - and need to change or add to what is there.
(Just being able to visit my domain & log into it for all that is a
wonderful thing !!)
I am very happy just using TWC;
I don't want to use the dropbox s/w;
I have my own domain & hosting;
I have no use for TW5 or most newer browsers or even HTML5...etc.

TWC worked in my hosted space this way before - even if I had to
re-download Tiddlyhome & re-initialize it - but now that does not even
work anymore & I've no idea why nor how to fix it. (Bidix seems to have
dropped it too.)

So I am stuck and hoping someone will help me somehow to get un-stuck ?!?

Thanks.

mark

[mark]

PS:
Daniel, I must respectfully disagree with you on this part of your message=>

> so demand for it will go down to nothing soon.

If you do a general web search for Tiddlywiki with or without any other
term, you'll find that there's practically an endless number of folks
(and even organizations) merrily using TWC - likely with no plans or
desires to change away from it.

I bet that the only reason that more TWC users don't yell for help here
is likely because it's working reliably for them, or they cannot
navigate the confusing mass of resources to find this one, single
support group.

Few webby things that I've ever seen in the past 20+ years have been as
useful and also as wildly popular as TWC.

If the devs want to forge ahead into some newer thing then I wish them
all the best.

I, personally, don't have any need for it.
Also, I suspect that many other folks will happily stay right on with
TWC just as so many have no intention of giving up XP because of
somebody else's say-so.

I likes what I likes - and that is a good thing, I think !!

[Daniel Baird]

It's possible to get UploadPlugin working (that's what tiddlyspot uses, I think it was the precursor to TiddlyHome), it's just quite frustrating to get everything set up exactly right.  To some degree you'll be continually fighting better browser security, especially if you're travelling and are using a public/borrowed computer or whatever.

If you really want to get something working -- TiddlyHome or UploadPlugin or whatever -- you can generally get answers to specific questions easier than just asking "what am I doing wrong".  E.g. you referred to a store.php / TWC setup that you couldn't get working.. what happened instead of it working?  Errors in the browser?  In your server's apache log (or nginx log or whatever), was the store.php file accessed at all?  Did it log an error?

Simon and I made tiddlyspot partly because at the time all other TW serversides were complicated and annoying.  So we made a system that swallowed down all the giant mouthfuls of complication and annoyance, and gave people a clean, simple experience.. sounds like that's what you want, you just want it on your server.  I reckon it'd take maybe 1 month to get tiddlyspot's code to the point where we can release it as a friendly open source product -- if you can provide funding, I'll schedule the time :)

Cheers

;Daniel

mark

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[Daniel Baird]

On 19 March 2014 12:33, mark <small...@gmail.com> wrote:

PS:
Daniel, I must respectfully disagree with you on this part of your message=>

>   so demand for it will go down to nothing soon.

If you do a general web search for Tiddlywiki with or without any other term, you'll find that there's practically an endless number of folks (and even organizations) merrily using TWC - likely with no plans or desires to change away from it.

I probably misspoke by saying "nothing".. but we used to get a few times a year someone asking for a locally-installable tiddlyspot, usually so they could run it behind their corporate firewall.  We haven't had that request for a few years now.  If we were still getting asked, we'd probably put some time into it, and maybe, eventually, have something to release, but I reckon tw5 will eventually do all the things you want it to, and then you'll be looking for a tw5 server :)

 

[mark]

Thanks Daniel.
I wish it would....just work - as it did before for me:

> It's possible to get UploadPlugin working (that's what tiddlyspot
> uses, I think it was the precursor to TiddlyHome), it's just quite
> frustrating to get everything set up exactly right.

It is indeed difficult to get working when changes occur and it just
fails without any visible explanation or error messages for the user to
see and share.

OK, I'll confess !!:
> .... especially if you're travelling and are using a public/borrowed
> computer or whatever.
My 'travel' destinations are usually the same, and I have tolerant
friends who allow me to leave behind a copy of older version of Firefox
Portable for when I visit - as that is what I prefer to use to help with
my poor eyesight.

Thank you, I understand & agree with your point here:

> If you really want to get something working -- TiddlyHome or
> UploadPlugin or whatever -- you can generally get answers to specific
> questions easier than just asking "what am I doing wrong". E.g. you
> referred to a store.php / TWC setup that you couldn't get working..
> what happened instead of it working? Errors in the browser? In your
> server's apache log (or nginx log or whatever), was the store.php file
> accessed at all? Did it log an error?

In the past there was never any visible error anyplace that was visible
to me, and I've not known where to look or what to look for in any logs
thus far.

Most recently I did a test with the help of my hosting's support guy,
and he made some security change which then let things become somewhat
more visible to me.

This time it said 'about to upload...' - then it showed a dialog box
with the full contents of store.php 100% visible in it with the yellow
triangle/exclamation thingy, and it's title bar saying 'javascript
application', and an OK button.

Once that is clicked another box appears saying 'failed to save'.

This happens whether $AUTHENTICATE_USER is set to false or true - and no
matter which user/ PW combo is used.

If it could somehow be made to work without credentials at all, I
suspect it might begin doing what Måns and others have said it should do
so easily...

A very noble and respectable avocation I would say:

> Simon and I made tiddlyspot partly because at the time all other TW
> serversides were complicated and annoying. So we made a system that
> swallowed down all the giant mouthfuls of complication and annoyance,
> and gave people a clean, simple experience..

Kudos to you for such a good work, Daniel and Simon !!

Golly, this made me giggle, thanks !!!:

> sounds like that's what you want, you just want it on your server. I
> reckon it'd take maybe 1 month to get tiddlyspot's code to the point
> where we can release it as a friendly open source product -- if you
> can provide funding, I'll schedule the time

I'm just one, old guy with a very bad memory, crippled hands and who has
been forcibly retired by life-threatening illness - who happens to be
living off what is left of his life savings for as long as possible and
who makes a few bucks now and then from odd jobs - if I had a few
thousand $$$ to toss at this though, I actually would as I believe it is
a worthwhile thing that would serve many folks despite it's being "old"
(like me ?!?).

In my POV, this is why Onenote & Evernote appear to be doing well as
'services' - because if there was any way for folks to use something
like Softaculous to make TWC (old as it is) to get up & running for
remote usage on their hosting - they would prefer it the same as I know
I would.

Thanks, but=>

> but I reckon tw5 will eventually do all the things you want it to, and
> then you'll be looking for a tw5 server :)

Nope. Ain't happenin'. I've tried to see what it is and looks like, but
could not.
It doesn't even open in my choice of elderly browser - and that is where
I draw the line
(and I know I am not alone in such preferences - though most will go
silent rather than to admit such things as openly as I do).

Thanks Again Daniel.

mark

[PMario]

TiddlyWiki in the sky with dropbox may be an option: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/jpVZquK07Ek
-mario

[PMario]

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:29:07 AM UTC+1, Daniel Baird wrote:

I agree, setting up hosting is a pain.  Simon and I (we're the tiddlyspot people) decided to make a distributable version of the tiddlyspot hosting rig, but neither of us have time to do it.  And it's not as useful for TW5, so demand for it will go down to nothing soon.

I think tiddlyspot is very useful with TW5. Most of the Community experiments listed at tiddlywiki.com are tiddlyspt driven.
see: http://tiddlywiki.com/static/Community.html

And TW5 supports it "out of the box" (kind of).

-mario

[Daniel Baird]

I'm imagining that having save-a-tiddler serversides properly supported in the TW core will mean save-a-whole-wiki serversides, like current tiddlyspot, will become less important.  Possibly there's a future tiddlyspot service for modern tiddler-at-a-time saves in a form that's simple to setup and manage.

Nevertheless although I'm just one of the people who make tiddlyspot go, I'm happy to keep "classic" tiddlyspot up as long as people want it -- as a free, unsponsored service we're powered by love for TW and people's generosity.  We sometimes get enough donations in a year to cover annual hosting costs :)

Cheers

;Daniel