Inspiration for (yet) another view on tiddlers and relationships? - see twine development

[Måns]

Hi TwWizards

I've just had a look on Chris Klimas' latest (pre) Alfa version of his Twine story builder*: http://twinery.org/2/#stories
Please check it out by creating a story and a couple of passages.
In a passage create a link to the other passage. (Normal TiddlyWiki link with double square brackets..) and see what happens.

I'ts all pretty basic atm - however to me it seems to do what some users/programmers have done, in the past, with moveable tiddlers and layout in TW - and here it adds a nice visualization of link connections - as simple strings/lines ...

Maybe this kind of UI could be developed as an alternative writers theme for TW5?
I'd love that :-)

I'd also like/love to see Tim Barne's TiddlyKanBanPlugin** be revived in TW5.

Both seem to expose qualities which would be very nice to have for production on tablets and other touch devices..

Cheers Måns Mårtensson

*)  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tweecode/PEjn1fwT3rg/qKbhU8MrJoEJ
**) https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/5iD4nFZP54M/sWIl_tCVUw8J

[Eskha]

Hi,

Totally amazing!

It woul'd be a wonderful of exploring data in a TW 5, imagine this feature combined with:
* a search capability to narrow the field of tiddler displayed,
* the use of a color background for each tidler title (the one from its firs tag for instance),
* display of an automatic clipped version of the tiddler text in the view to keep it synthetic  (like it is done in the intellisearch plugin for TWc).

Best regards.

Eskha

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Mans,

I have recently been poking around the Twee/TWine group out of inerest and I see an astonishing amount of activity and creativity there.

Just so we're clear, from a technological pov there seems literally nothing tiddly* about twinery, except for the fact that there are chunks called Passages that can have something that looks like a [[TiddlyLink]].

So, while such a "view on tiddlers" may be desireable, it is quite difficult to achieve in Tiddlywik classic (while not impossible) but probably simpler done in TW5 (yet, perhaps that not true either).

In any case, both the representation in this connected web kinda thing, let alone the generation of a Twine story is complex stuff. Personally, I would say it would have been more practical if Twine had actually been built on TiddlyWiki rather than around its concepts... but that's just not up for discussion right now, unless someone does a tech talk of the core concepts on Twine and then a bit of a brain storming on how to get this unfolding of stories with all the macro-magic working in a classic TiddlyWiki, yet the minimalistic twine-style, perhaps with a paramifier option to open the thing in editor mode.

Right now, all that seems far out there. It may be possible if the framework on which Twinery builts were a properly encapsulated, flexible js libary that can be included in a TiddlyWiki and then customized.

For example, there could be a simple switch in the paramifiers, e.g.

http://mystory.com#!.start

See that bang-dot? Something like this may indicate to TiddlyWiki that there is a story to be run rather than a "start" tiddler to be opened in classic ViewMode. If you had a defined "storyTheme" running in fullscreen mode, you could get there.

But I guess your focus is on something like a StoryWebPlugin that allows Twine style navigation and editing. Not sure, but isn't that even possible with PasteUpPlugin? Ok, what would be missing are...

* snap to grid

* show connections

I guess all that needs an actual HTML5 canvas element being drawn to, something I don't think people have experimented much in TiddlyWiki yet, except for visualisation, e.g. using Raphael.js... but not with a lot of "interactivity". By the way, I don't think one really needs to see the tiddler's as cards. What's important are the titles and the connections. Perhaps a "click to unfold" or "hover to preview", etc... were better.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Jeremy Ruston]

I hadn't seen Chris's work on Twine2, it's very cool.

I do have mixed feelings about boxes-and-lines diagrams, though. Although they exert a primal appeal as a way of visualising connections in my head, I find that they don't tend to work well in practice, certainly not when the number of entities gets to any size.

I've long been interested in a simpler variation that eschews connection lines and instead just uses position, size and other spatial relationships to convey meaning. I wrote a prototype back in 2008:

http://jermolene.com/cecily

TW5 defines 'listview' modules that visualise a list of tiddlers. It ships at the moment with "classic" and "zoomin", but they will soon be joined by "cecily".

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Tobias Beer]

I think an automated version of this new plugin...

http://nodetree.tiddlyspace.com

...has quite the potential to both navigate AND create tiddler relations either via tagging or via linking (references) and then navigate around a TidTree, e.g. via clicking on a node and then center on that tiddler to see its tagging and linking relations... CTRL+click to open, ALT+CLICK to edit, SHIFT+CLICK for newhere... or some node-toolbar displayed when you hover a node that gives you the above options for node manipulation.

Tobias.