How do I view only a node and its children and grandchildren in Tiddlymap, hiding the parents and siblings of the node, to focus only on that topic?

[Mobil Home]

How do I view only a node and its children and grandchildren in Tiddlymap, hiding the parents and siblings of the node, to focus only on that topic?

[Mark S.]

Are there parents and grand-parents? I thought there were "nodes" and "faces", which formed networks. Since the network nodes can form complete loops, how would you prevent recursive relationships? Like in those sci-fi stories, you could be your own grandfather.

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Like in those sci-fi stories, you could be your own grandfather.

Its not just science fiction. In the Crow Kinship system your Father's Sister's Son IS (maybe, now, "was") also your Father.

I been looking a long while for some connection tool that can cope with understanding that to let me depict it visually.

J.

[Mobil Home]

I have seen this in some Tiddlymap, but I cannot find it anymore.

I want to have the option to hide all parents of a node, and only show the downwards (children) trees.

This option would be useful also in the tree view (contents).

For example this feature exists in Workflowy. I don't know how would I prevent recursice relationships, I don't have any software knowledge, I am just on the user end.

I don'øt

[TonyM]

Out side of tiddlymap such as with the toc macro you change the root tiddler to the target tiddler and you only see it and its future generations.

The toc macro uses a recursive process that digs down the heirachy indefinatly.

It would be easy to create a non recursive set of three macros one for the root tiddler, one for its children and one for the grandchildren and stop there. All you have to do is nominate the target or root tiddler. I will do this if asked.

Tony

[TonyM]

Mark,

Knowledge networks, data and entity relationship models are an interest of mine. I believe I have a way to avoid recursion in such a case. If there is a serious need I will do it and share.

Regards
Tony

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

The problem is that the map technology doesn't use any of our standard linking or tagging for tracking relationships. It uses it's own structural language. So, we can't use the standard  TOC tools. Take a look at one or two of the tiddlers and you'll see. You can use (as I posted in another thread) the search tool to detect if tiddler a is referenced in tiddler b (that is, can you find the id for tiddler A in the map field of tiddler B). But I don't know how you could detect recursion with just nested lists, where there's no way to "remember" that you've seen a value before.

-- Mark

[Mobil Home]

Actually not to limit it only to show the children and 2 grandchildren. Because for example one line of descendants of a node can be longer than the other, with much more grandchildren.

Just simply to show only the descendants (all descendants) of a node, but not the parents. This is already possible because I have seen it online I just can't find that site again, not even in my history :(  It was either a Tiddlymap video or I clicked on a real Tiddlymap: when clicked on a node, the parents got hidden and only the network of that node was shown. Of course you can just zoom to a certain node to see that subnetwork, so I am not sure anymore that such function would make sense. Especially if subnetworks have different colors, it's easy to distinguish...

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[TonyM]

Mark,

I have discovered a method to do so and wonder if it should be protected intellectual property. Happy to discuss it in a private message. I am yet to implement it in tiddlywiki but see no barrier, I just need to improve my list fields manipulation techniques.

Regards
Tony

[TonyM]

Ps you just need a method to remember what went before and there are other lots of "bloody good" reasons to do this.

Sorry I am not helping with tiddlymap, I will try and do so.

Tony

[Felix Küppers]

correct. the map is completely unaware of hierarchical concepts or any semantics.
One reason for this is to have better performance, another one is to avoid code- and UX-complexity and to keep TiddlyMap simple.

There is a neighbourhood display though: tiddlymap.org/#Discovering the neighbourhood

Regards

Felix

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

I'm an anthropologist, trust me.

Proper full kinship trees cannot be depicted via TiddlyMap. The reason is quite simple: It can't support bi-lateral descent because the graphic library behind it can't.

It can support depiction of uni-lineal descent (i.e. descent only through either father or mother line) but bi-lateral descent (i.e. descent through both father and mother conjoined) it simply can't do.

I'm still looking for a JS tool that can.

One approach is to use static diagramming. I'll see if I can find a link.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mobil Home (great name!)

You may find this discussion interesting ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/7Za1WXrcSMs/hmttNRdNBgAJ

There was talk of porting the JS behind that diagramming approach to TW. So far no one has. But its worth noting.

Human kinship (genealogy) shares a lot with other formal methods of depicting hierarchy--its basically the same generic model. Kinship conjoins "hierachy" (descent) with "joined-levels" (affinity). Most of the current JS solutions have one or the other, but not both, so can't help.

Diagramming does not have the complex computational issues involved so is an alternative way if all you want to do is depict (not calculate) relationships.

Hope this is clear enough!

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mobil Home]

I'm glad you like my name. Plenty of arguments here from everyone, and suggestions, links to unknown stuff for me: great, thanks everyone. I think what I have seen it was a Live View, that actually does it. 

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