In search of the perfect footnote plugin. What else does the Skeeves footnotefilter need?

[Jan]

Hello.
I was very happy to find  Stephan Hradek´s footnote template and especially the concept of the footnote filter (http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#Idea%20for%20a%20footnote%20filter).
I would like to modify it in a way that it shows the footnotes of the Tiddlers in the storyriver. I thought of this change:

<dl>
<$list filter="[list[$:/StoryList]search[||footnote}}]each[title]]">
<dt><$view field="title"/></dt>
<$list filter="[is[current]match:text/\{\{(.*?)\|\|footnote\}\}/(g)]" variable="footnote">
<dd><<footnote>></dd>
</$list>
</$list>
</dl>

In skeeve's TiddlyStuff this works fine, you would get a pretty "Endnote Tiddler".

But importing the Tiddlers

footnote

footnote.CSS

Footnotes

Idea for a footnote filter
to my TW I encountered problems.
Even Stephans original footnote filter just shows the title but not the footnotes.
So - Is there a secret ingredient?

Thanks for help,
Jan

[Birthe C]

Hi Jan,

You do not mention, but Stephan did write it was necessary http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fmodules%2Ffilters%2Fmatch.js


Birthe

[Jan]

Hej Birthe,
I forgot to write in my Email - I imported that one as well. With no effect, alas.
May it be the RegExpFilters ( http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#RegExpFilters ) ?
How do you install them? Is it the two .js at the bottom. In fact i just crashed my TW importing them...
I'll keep on trying. 

Jan

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[Josiah]

Ciao Birthe & Jan

Comments, not as a programmer or software problem solver, but as a researcher ....

 1 - Notes are VALUABLE. Are key. They reflect MY thinking.

2 - The key point for me about notes & reflections, is they are often EMERGENT thought.

3 - It remains important for me that as the notes grow THEY can increasingly be used to SHAPE the primary content, in order for MY pattern of understanding to emerge.

Of course this is not going to help get coding actually done. But I think its work re-iterating aspects of essential purpose.

Best wishes
Josiah

[PMario]

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 11:36:20 AM UTC+2, Jan wrote:

I forgot to write in my Email - I imported that one as well. With no effect, alas.
May it be the RegExpFilters ( http://tiddlystuff.tiddlyspot.com/#RegExpFilters ) ?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you should use the core regexp filters [1], if needed, instead and not us a plugin, from a 5.0.8-beta TW.

[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#regexp%20Operator%20(Examples):%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%20(Examples)%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bregexp%20Operator%5D%5D

I'd need to have a closer look, but I don't even think you need the regexp filter for your use case.

-m

[Jan]

Hallo Mario,
thanks a lot, but I did not manage to find a beta-version of $:/core/modules/filters.js that does not crash my TW (Which means it produces the embarrassing "Internal JavaScript Error" when reopening).
I Think on skeeves this should already have been a 5.0.8b version.

These are the Tiddlers I imported:

1. $:/core/modules/filters/field.js
2. $:/core/modules/filters.js
3. $:/core/modules/filters/match.js

Match.js seems which Stephan indicate as necessary does not crash the TW - but has no effect either.

If you would be so gentle to have a close look:
I prepared this on http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/ just press "recent Issues" in the Welcome.Tiddler.

Thanks a lot
Jan

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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi folks

Just wanted to let you know: My footnotes macro is up and running as a hack: http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#TextStretch%20Footnotes%20Extracted%20as%20List

A bit complicated, but pure wikitext :)

Call it alpha, beta or proof of concept … try it and let me know what you think. (But don’t expect timely responses, I dont have enough time for anything at the moment.)

Cheers, Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
A great thing you did there. I bit my teeth out on that problem...
Would it be possible to apply your <<extract>> function to a list of tiddlers generated by a filter?
For example I would like to have an endnotefilter to sort out all footnotes in the storyriver.

Thanks a lot Jan

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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

I did a test and found out that my extract macro is not very stable. A space in a tiddler title makes it crash …

Your use case is possible, but only under ideal conditions.

So we need some optimizations first.

Kind regards, Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
I think such an extract-plugin would be a really great help, not only
for footnotes but also for presentations.
You are doing this in javascript or in wikitext?

Yours Jan

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan
The extract macro does not use any Javascript. The preview for TW 5.1.14 shows some new filter options, I hope they will be helpful for polishing …
Have a nice day!
Thomas

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi again

I smashed some bugs and the extract macro is on a new level of stability now (moved from -3 to -1 or so). You can find a new demo here:

http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html – the footer tiddler at the bottom collects all footnotes form the storyriver

No time for explanations right now – good night and good luck!

Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
you do not know ho long I wanted to have something like this.
Cool, Terrific...

This takes TiddlyWiki a big step forward toward being scientific tool.

Thanks a lot, Thomas!
Jan

Am 17.11.2016 um 00:23 schrieb Thomas Elmiger:

Hi again

I smashed some bugs and the extract macro is on a new level of stability now (moved from -3 to -1 or so). You can find a new demo here:

http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html

No time for explanations right now – good night and good luck!

Thomas

Thomas

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[Jan]

Hi Thomas ... Hallo to all scientific Users of TW.
Thanks again Thomas for your work which provides the first Footnote-Plugin which is easy to use and has the possibility to collect the notes at the end.
I packed all your Macros and css in three Tiddlers and made some minor changes for my purposes:
-changed the shorthand to uppercase <<Ref "footnote">>.
-made some changes in the style
-altered the Filter for the Endnotes so that it only shows the Tiddlers with annotations in the storyline [list[$:/StoryList]search[Ref ]].
( One Question: How can I make a filter so that it just chooses Tiddlers where Ref is written with a capital R?)
- All Tiddlers and a short documentation which can be found under
http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#About%20Footnotes.

Yours Jan

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

There is a new and more stable version 0.9 of my extract macro available at http://tid.li/tw5/hacks.html#Extract%20Macro – see release notes for other changes.

Are you still producing documents with footnotes? (Nice styles, by the way!)

All the best, Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
your extract macro put me a great deal forward in transforming TW into an instrument for research and especially for collecting information and writing thesis.
Replacing the extract-plugin with the new version I had to find out that the footnotes in slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com vanish. I do not know why this happens but since the old version did a great job I would stick to that one...
Best wishes Jan

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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

I have just updated my own example on http://tid.li/tw5/numbers.html so we have a working example for the new version again. While I updated the collection of the footnotes I integrated your search[<ref ] operator in the filter – very elegant, thank you!

I will look at the differences in using the list widget again later. There is no hurry in updating as long as you don’t run into problems.

Just wanted to let you know.

All the best, Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
this makes me happy, because you solved one of my most persistent problems in TW. I also made an Editor- toolbar-button to create footnotes you might like.

My next idea would be to use the extract-macro for collecting slides for presentation.
Because my usual Tiddlers are too long for slides, I would like to be able to mark paragraphs within Tiddlers that have a good length for a slide.
The extract-macro could pick the slides out of the Tiddlers on the bases of a list (e.g. the storylist) and I am thinking about a mechanism to display them one after the other.
What do you think of that?

Yours Jan

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[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Jan

Sorry for replying so late. There are so many projects to work on. I am sure we are thinking along the same lines concerning extraction and presentation – your remote control is a fantastic concept! I hope I will find some time to test it and play with it … but it deals with tiddlers, so we would need another base for presenting snippets, right?

All the best, Thomas

[Jan]

Hi Thomas,
thanks, for me it's the same.
I have been thinking on the snippet-question for some time now.
To my mind there is two types and three Use-Cases for these
presentationSnippets. It is useful to <mark> the UseCases equally
because there is a big overlap.

Types: there should be Snippets visible in the normal TiddlerView and
hidden Snippets that do not show.

Use-Cases:
1. Reading and memorizing content like cue cards on phone-sized devices.
Here it would be best be able to browse through the cards with swipe
gestures.

2. Presentations with visual content...where I would like to use the
TiddlyMap Plugin (as I just wrote to Felix in this list and started to
try on http://slidemap.tiddlyspot.com/)
2a. with remote the snippet of the current Tiddler would be shown in
the remote and set to be visible by clicking.
2b. without a remote we would have to think of a button to navigate to
the next step in the presentation.

I encountered a further Idea for the footnotes-plugin.
Would it be possible to assign a special class to footnotes that are at
the top of the tiddler-Text so that they are shown behind the Tiddler-Title?

So best wishes ... and a happy 2017 for you
Jan

[Greg Molyneux]

Jan and Thomas,

Forgive me for resurrecting this old thread, but I wanted to thank you both for the efforts you've put into the footnotes problem in TiddlyWiki, your work goes a long way to making this tool much more useful for me.  The contributions you've both made are simple, clean and elegant.  Mind you, by simple I mean in presentation, not in implementation - I could not have coded the beginnings of such a solution.

I've actually taken the code I'm using from Jan's implementation, and while I like the inline display of footnotes when selected, I've modified it's appearance back to something more similar to Thomas' in several small ways - a discrete background behind the footnote number in the tiddlers, a darker number itself, and I returned the ordered list in the footnote tiddler at the bottom of the story river to ease association with original tiddlers up the river.  The code in Thomas' implementation helped me achieve a look that suits me well in Jan's code.

In an unrelated post some time back, I saw a comment from Alberto Molina (another TW champion I'd like to wholeheartedly thank) about what he uses TW for.  He'd mentioned nearly finishing his thesis in Zotero and LibreOffice, and that TW was better served for notes, comments, ideas, etc. about the references he manages in Zotero.  I agree with this completely as there's no point in re-inventing the wheel.  Combined with TW and TiddlyMap, along with several other fantastic extensions and plugins this helps me coordinate, track, plan, and utilize data in ways I couldn't have managed before.

Zotero allows you to export to the clipboard a bibliographic entry for resources it contains, and this is ideal for attachment as a footnote entry.  It allows me to easily look up the original reference in Zotero, open it in a new tab from Zotero, and be about as integrated with TW as I'd really need.  Direct links would be nice, but as I understand it, Zotero will not for security reasons allow direct links back into its DB.

Note that I can almost use a direct link from Zotero, if I first right-click on an entry, select "Generate report from item..." and then copy the zotero:// link from the browser to use as a footnote.  This still requires me to copy/paste from my footnote into a new tab in my browser before being able to open the zotero report, and then I have to search for the original entry anyway, but it is another option for integration.

This email is the long way around to a short point.  I wanted to thank Jan, Thomas, Alberto, Felix, Jeremy, Tobias, and dozens of other remarkably talented people working with TiddlyWiki for the remarkable tool, and the fantastic extensions you've all provided.  While it takes a new user some time how to tie this all together, the possibilities are amazing.

[Felix Küppers]

Hi Greg,

thanks for your kind words. glad you enjoy working with tiddlymap.

Zotero allows you to export to the clipboard a bibliographic entry for resources it contains, and this is ideal for attachment as a footnote entry.  It allows me to easily look up the original reference in Zotero, open it in a new tab from Zotero, and be about as integrated with TW as I'd really need.  Direct links would be nice, but as I understand it, Zotero will not for security reasons allow direct links back into its DB.

I also wrote my thesis with the help of TW and Zotero, while visualizing authors and their citations with TiddlyMap.
TW and Zotero work great together because Zotero is the perfect tool for storing literature and metadata while TW offers powerful capabilities to link authors, subjects and citations with your own thoughs. However, I agree, it's a shame that Zotero prevents users from directly linking items from within your wiki.

Best wishes
Felix

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