To embed or not?

[Andy Wood]

Good Evening,

I have just started with TiddlyWiki.

My usage of it is to convert  my many pages of paper based knowlede / information into individual tiddlers.

It is working really well so far, it really has changed my daily workflow.

So far I have only created tiddlers of my text only papers.

Many of them include pictures which I have digital copies of in jpg foramt.

I have a few questions, if I may?

1. What is what is the best way to include these jpgs in my tiddlers?
Should I link to their location on my hard drive, or embed them?

2. If I link to them, is it possible to have all of my jpgs in the same directory as the TiddlyWiki html file, and have it find them regardless of where this folder is located on a PCs hard drive? (For example, I have it located at C:\users\Andy\desktop\mytiddlywiki\mywiki.html, however when I put give a copy to my colleagues they would have the folder containing the wiki and images at a different location), or would I have to manually edit the paths for each image to match my colleagues paths?
If I embed all of the images, such that I have the wiki html file with all the images embedded, does the file become too large and cumbersome and slow down loading times or other issues?

3. Same as 1 and 2 but with regards to pdfs and video files?

I should point out that we have a network share to which I could place the wiki. (However, I would like to keep a working local copy that I maintain and copy to the network share / colleagues computers after every meaningful update of content.

I appreciate any help, tips and advice.

Best Regards,

Andy

[Jed Carty]

If you have a lot of pictures or if they are relatively large then linking to them would probably be better. You can have them in either the same folder as the wiki or in a folder in the same location as the wiki, I do that because it keeps things more organized. The same can be done for audio and video. PDFs work, but I have heard that large pdfs may break things.

Here is my quick overview of how to embed images. http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#Embedding%20Images%20-%20External%20Images
As long as the folder with the images is in the same location relative to the wiki then this should work when copied to another computer.

If you want a more indepth reference Tobias Beer has a wonderful reference here http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#External%20Image%20Path

[BJ]

Hi Andy,
another possibility is to use tiddlyclip to create to links to photos and pdfs etc-

http://tiddlyclip.tiddlyspot.com/

I am currently updating the site to include the details of how to do this
cheers
BJ

[Tobias Beer]

My standard answer: not.

[Andy Wood]

Hi All,

Many thanks for your advice. Having been on annual leave for the past few days, I will now take a look at your suggestions.
I like the idea of storing them in the ./images/ folder.

I would also like to learn about the macros in TiddlyWiki and so will also try the method of defining a global folder path for external images.
I am not sure how to setup macros but will give it ago and see what I can learn.

Again,

Thank you for the help, advice and a point in the right direction!

Take Care,

Andy

[Tobias Beer]

I would also like to learn about the macros in TiddlyWiki and so will also try the method of defining a global folder path for external images.
I am not sure how to setup macros but will give it ago and see what I can learn.

Or, you can simply use...

http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#External%20Image%20Path

Best wishes, Tobias.

[RichShumaker]

So here is a weird question about images(could apply to other data as well).

I have been trying to link images in my TW from a folder.

If I drag and drop the images they will be copied over(embedded) and I understand why Tobias says "not" for embedding them.(see my post about breaking TW or better said breaking the browser.)

I have set up the "External Image Path" and it is working, woohoo small victory.

So how could I 'import' 'drag and drop' or 'grab' the images and bring them into my TW from the path I just created?(Link not Embed)

Along those lines can you tag things on an 'import'?

Ideally I could shoot images and then 'drag and drop' and they would link not embed with Tags I put in or dare I say use the EXIF data for Tags.(I know crawl, then walk, then run, and then maybe I can sprint, or do a marathon)

Oh and I tried to drop a windoze 'shortcuts' into TW, that was a FAIL.

Thanks again everyone.

Rich Shumaker

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Rich

Sadly, when you drop an image from your file manager into TW, the browser doesn't tell us that original path for security reasons. So it is impossible to make dragging and dropping an image result in an external image instead of an embedded image.

The exception is when you use the file browser that is built into browsers. Try dragging a folder from your file manager into Firefox. You should end up with a directory listing like the one below. When those links are dragged into TiddlyWiki you end up with a link. The plan is to apply some smarter processing to turn the link into an external image tiddler with a relative URI.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

 

So how could I 'import' 'drag and drop' or 'grab' the images and bring them into my TW from the path I just created?(Link not Embed)

Along those lines can you tag things on an 'import'?

You can simply display them within tiddlers, or if you want each image to be a tiddler, you do the _canonical_uri thing...

http://tiddlywiki.com/#ExternalImages

Ideally I could shoot images and then 'drag and drop' and they would link not embed with Tags I put in or dare I say use the EXIF data for Tags.

Not sure about a browser's ability to access file attributes like exif, I think chances are rather slim, tools probably sparse. Not saying that using TW as a photo collection (for otherwise external images) could not be an interesting thing.... but then there's plenty professional photo viewing / managing software out there and I surely would not dare reinvent that wheel with TiddlyWiki. At least, I honestly wouldn't know why I would try to do that.

Best wishes, Tobias. 

[RichShumaker]

Thanks Jeremy and Tobias.

I should say Damn your Sanity Tobias, #heheh.

If it wasn't for reinventing wheels I wouldn't have any wheels at all, #heheh.

Jeremy that trick worked quite well till I got to the hand coding things to make them display properly.

I dumped the data into a spreadsheet but it was still hand coding.

It worked though.

***PLEASE NOTE THIS WILL NOT CREATE INDIVIDUAL TIDDLERS***

So if you have a few hundred images you can cut down the time to a few minutes using a spreadsheet / Text Editor replace combo.

Here is the crazy process(it works so crazy is in the eye of the beholder)

1. Find the folder with the images

2. Drop the folder in Firefox

3. Drag and drop the images from Firefox(it can sort based on size and other stuff) to TiddlyWiki

4. Import the 'Untitled' Tiddler - All Images show up in a single Tiddler

5. Rename the Tiddler(for Sanity Sake) and Save it

6. Copy the names and other data from the Tiddler(If you try to edit the data you will be editing HTML Code) 

7. Use Spreadsheet and Text Editor to Change Formatting for Img or XImg depending on what you are using

I have the images locally in a folder called "images2" and $:/macros/ximg/path is configured to direct there

WORKS
<<ximg "IMG_2141.JPG">>
WORKS
[img[images2/IMG_2141.JPG]]

---End of Process---

<Please Note I overwhelmed my browser for a few minutes with the crazy list I created - Browser finally stopped spinning and I deleted the file>

<Is there a way to delete a Tiddler without opening it or viewing it?>

Firefox has a plug in that will show the EXIF data

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/exif-viewer/

I have no idea if this helps or is possible to use to grab the EXIF data to use as TAGS

So the major disadvantage of this way of importing images is that they are NOT INDIVIDUAL Tiddlers.

I have tried a few workarounds but have not come up with a way to make them individual tiddlers with this method of drag and drop import.

Oh and Tobias is CORRECT there are already existing Photo Manager that are better suited for this stuff.

Of course they are not TiddlyWiki ;)

Side note my code went up about 150 - 200K doing the images this way.

I think once I massage the data I could delete the original import and drop it down to about 30k or less but it is still only 1 Tiddler.

So is there a <<Split Tiddler>> function to take the single big image file list and break them into individual Tiddlers.

Here is how the Single Tiddler Looks - I did not need to remove the extra space but I could have using a 'replace' function in my txt editor

<<ximg "	IMGP0367.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0368.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0369.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0372.JPG	">>

As always thanks to everyone for all the help with my 'crazy' ideas.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

 

Is there a way to delete a Tiddler without opening it or viewing it?

search for "delet" on tb5

Firefox has a plug in that will show the EXIF data

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/exif-viewer/

I have no idea if this helps or is possible to use to grab the EXIF data to use as TAGS

Pretty sure, if at all, you'd want exif data to be fields, except tags. It appears reading exif data is not entirely impossible, but here's a mild impression by an image hosting giant like flickr about what is involved to get that even remotely up and running, that is without doing server voodoo...

http://code.flickr.net/2012/06/01/parsing-exif-client-side-using-javascript-2/

Theoretically, to get exif data from what you want to be external images, you'd still have to...

• import the images
• thus have TiddlyWiki turn them into base64 encoded blops
  
• read exif data
  
• delete them again

Perhaps it could be possible for a tiddler embedding an external image to access the exif data of the embedded image. This requires loading the image in the browser first, of course. But then, looking at...

https://github.com/jseidelin/exif-js

I read in the example.html...

Click the images to read Exif data. The first image tests reading single tags, while the other two simply show all available data. 
Note: these examples will not work if running from a local file:// URL. 

So, that's that, no local file access... and usually no cross-domain access either.

So the major disadvantage of this way of importing images is that they are NOT INDIVIDUAL Tiddlers.

This is the part that made your browser go crazy, having all those megabytes of images displayed at the same time.

Perhaps try a different approach: Take a look at the file format you get using TiddlyWiki's new export functions, e.g. JSON... find a suitable desktop app to produce such a file from the image names extracted from your folder, if only excel / calc, whereas each individual tiddler definition contains that <<ximg>> line in its text field.

Oh and Tobias is CORRECT there are already existing Photo Manager that are better suited for this stuff.

Of course they are not TiddlyWiki ;)

It would surely be nice for TiddlyWiki to do any of this in a painless way, painless for a user and painless for a dev. The desillusioning bit is: it's truly not. Just try to find even a desktop app that exports exif data for you in a way that you think "oh, that works well". Found one?

Side note my code went up about 150 - 200K doing the images this way.

I think once I massage the data I could delete the original import and drop it down to about 30k or less but it is still only 1 Tiddler.

So is there a <<Split Tiddler>> function to take the single big image file list and break them into individual Tiddlers.

I don't think dropping html from the folder viewer is too meaningful, atm, because you get a lot of html garbage. It is much easier and cleaner to just build your "import" file manually as suggested above.

 

Here is how the Single Tiddler Looks - I did not need to remove the extra space but I could have using a 'replace' function in my txt editor

<<ximg "	IMGP0367.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0368.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0369.JPG	">>
<<ximg "	IMGP0372.JPG	">>

Make them individual tiddlers. To do that, first work those image names. I always use a software like AntRenamer to rename those stupidly numbered images titles by the date-time stamp they were taken, e.g. 2014-12-31_23-59-59.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Andy Wood]

Hi Tobias,

In order to use your image macro in my TiddlyWiki do I export it as a tid file, and then import that file into my TiddlyWiki?

Andy

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[RichShumaker]

First THANKS Tobias.

I have a bunch of reading up to do now between Deleting and Image Stuff.

I will probably create a new TW instance just for Photosl to explore more of this as well ;)

I will post up publicly with 'TW Photo' stuffs once I have more than a pile of goo.

Don't get excited it will probably just be all the information you have already told me in a TW that I name Photo, #heheh.

Andy,

Since I am not Tobias I can't answer your question but my question was 'What Image Macro?'

Tobias was linking to other stuff that 'could' 'potentially' be added to TW in the future.

The link I posted was to an EXIF reader that is an add on to Firefox.

Lots to read and research now, woohoo.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Andy,

In order to use your image macro in my TiddlyWiki do I export it as a tid file, and then import that file into my TiddlyWiki?

You can do that or simply drag and drop the link to the macro over to your wiki...

http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#External%20Image%20Path

Also, don't forget to setup your path tiddler... you can as well drag that over, but you need to edit it to reflect your configuration.

Best wishes, Tobias. 

[RichShumaker]

d'oh!!! That Macro

Thanks Tobias.

I started a new thread but thought I should add a comment to this one as it is what started the new thread.

I created a Photo TW to explore things about Images and TiddlyWiki.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/tw-photo.html

Oh and the reasons the images from Tobias's Tiddler are missing is that my TW points to my directory and I did not copy his image across.

Rich Shumaker

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Rich,

 

I started a new thread but thought I should add a comment to this one as it is what started the new thread.

I created a Photo TW to explore things about Images and TiddlyWiki.

http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/tw-photo.html

 

I see you're having fun exploring...

 

Oh and the reasons the images from Tobias's Tiddler are missing is that my TW points to my directory and I did not copy his image across.

Change as you see fit. Perhaps you'll come up with all new ways to make a gallery or menu... or both as a form of webalbum.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Andy Wood]

Hi Tobias,

I have got this working now thanks to your instructions. I am very pleased with it.

Can I do a similar thing for pdf file or doc files? I don't need them to display in the tiddler, just a link to them. (But the files will all be contained in a folder just like the images are so that I can move the whole wiki without having to update all of the links to the documents each time).

Best Wishes,

Andy

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Andy,

 

Can I do a similar thing for pdf file or doc files? I don't need them to display in the tiddler, just a link to them. (But the files will all be contained in a folder just like the images are so that I can move the whole wiki without having to update all of the links to the documents each time).

Can you be more specific? Not sure what exactly you are trying to achieve.

Here's perhaps one way...

http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#Local%20Folder%20Contents

Another is to force external links via [ext[]]...

http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#external-links-forced

Best wishes, Tobias. 

[Andy Wood]

Hi Tobias,

Sorry, let me try again:

I have my TiddlyWiki.html file stored in a folder named mywiki on my desktop. Within that folder I have another folder named images (for use as per your previous suggestion relating to ximg and the .\images\).
There is also a folder named documents. This folder contains .doc and .pdf files that I would like to link to from within a tiddler. For example I have a tiddler explaining how to perform beam tuning, and within that text I would like to have a hyperlink?? that points to a pdf document in the documents folder so when clicked will open adobe reader, or if it was a .doc, it would launch msword. (I guess Firefox would basicly "download" it and windows would launch the correct application?)

But the issue is that I would like to then be able to copy the mywiki (containing the images and documents folders to a network drive or someone else's USB stick and have the tiddlywiki.html file work from the new location without having to change the path to each individual pdf / doc file. In the same way that your suggestion for my images works.

Many thanks,

Kind regards,

Andy

--

[Tobias Beer]

Hey Andy,

 

There is also a folder named documents. This folder contains .doc and .pdf files that I would like to link to from within a tiddler. For example I have a tiddler explaining how to perform beam tuning, and within that text I would like to have a hyperlink??

Yes, as mentioned, in general you can use the [ext[folder/file.doc]] syntax to link to external files.

 

that points to a pdf document in the documents folder so when clicked will open adobe reader, or if it was a .doc, it would launch msword. (I guess Firefox would basicly "download" it and windows would launch the correct application?)

I'm afraid, how firefox or chrome open such documents is, if at all, a matter of their settings / restrictions. This is really a browser issue. No idea how to force a browser to open local files with the respective application. I think it's not ok that a user would not be able to ask a browser to do so.

But the issue is that I would like to then be able to copy the mywiki (containing the images and documents folders to a network drive or someone else's USB stick and have the tiddlywiki.html file work from the new location without having to change the path to each individual pdf / doc file.

Possibly, you actually have to open your file-browser and open the file from there ...which sucks, because things used to be better in times when browser were allowed to do... stuff like that. However, having those relative links, at least you do have access to the file, if only to "pseudo-download" it ...which is, quite frankly, stupid ...but what can you do.

Best wishes, Tobias.

[Andy Wood]

Hey Tobias,

The [ext[folder/file.doc]] worked flawlessly. Thank you again.

I have many more questions but I should probably start a new thread.

Best Wishes,

Andy

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[RichShumaker]

Andy

I have started checking before asking at TW.com and Tobias's sites.

If you don't have it already here is the link to Tobias's site, http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#Tobias%20Beer

I know that he has also created one off TW5 to check different things like the Galleria I was discussing, 

Most of my questions are answered or at least a direction to look.

That doesn't mean I don't post a bunch and I encourage posting, ;)

I really have gotten a lot farther because of the group and I am very grateful to everyone for their help.

Rich Shumaker