Using plugin type info

[TonyM]

Hi all,

This thread has deviated from its original subject So I have edited the leading post

I use the various $:/info tiddler available in Tiddlywiki especially $:/info/url/full.

However when I clone a wiki, ie copy the file then open the file the values are not updating.

Tiddlywiki 5.1.20 +

• Firefox and Timimi
  
• or TiddlyServer 

I am not sure if this is a bug or I should be forcing a refresh - but I thought they were automatic and always on

I do have the browser sniffer plugin installed but this should only update the browser type and brand.

Thanks in advance

Tony

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

The $:/info tiddlers are shadow tiddlers defined at startup in a temporary plugin called $:/temp/info-plugin. Perhaps you’ve accidentally defined one of them as a real tiddler, overriding the associated shadow?

Best wishes

Jeremy

On 6 Sep 2019, at 07:32, TonyM <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I use the various $:/info tiddler available in Tiddlywiki especially $:/info/url/full.

However when I clone a wiki, ie copy the file then open the file the values are not updating.

Tiddlywiki 5.1.20 +

• Firefox and Timimi
  
• or TiddlyServer 

I am not sure if this is a bug or I should be forcing a refresh - but I thought they were automatic and always on

I do have the browser sniffer plugin installed but this should only update the browser type and brand.

Thanks in advance

Tony

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[TonyM]

Jeremy.

That will be it thanks. I am using one wiki to generate other wikis using a big green button it would make sense to exclude info tiddlers from the save. To mitigate this.

Jeremy, just an aside my mother and sister will be in oxford for a night as they do a whirlwind tour of the UK this month.

Regards
Tony

[TonyM]

Jeremy

The idea of temporary plugin sounds interesting!

Tony

[TonyM]

Jeremy,

For give me for being a bit of a hacker. I have played with making my own tiddlers with a plugin-type of info, 

which I note is NOT documented here https://tiddlywiki.com/#Plugin%20Fields (perhaps this is understandable)

However I found if I started to import multiple tiddlers, and renamed $:/import to tiddlername (Capturing the import json), and modified the tiddler type to info (deleting the status field) I created myself a hidden plugin - not listed in plugins, containing the batch of tiddlers I almost imported. Reloading I had all the shadow tiddlers appearing. Of course If I edit a tiddler it looses its bold font in the "info plugin", and overwrites the shadow.

Disabling and reloading they are gone, but listed in the new info plugin in italics and they open new empty tiddlers. The edited tiddlers from when the plugin was active remain in the wiki as regular tiddlers, and can actually be deleted, perhaps must be.

Not only has this suddenly shed light on the plugin mechanism but I have found away to capture importing tiddlers even from multiple JSON and storing them in abeyance and made available when needed by enabling the plugin. This has exposed a method by which I can load test data into a wiki, or configuration settings. 

This info plugin can be dragged and dropped to another wiki. Interestingly after importing If I open the "info" plugin (not a plugin title), the import mechanism offers to import the tiddlers. If it does so I expect It will create standard tiddlers that would override if it where a plugin.

Anyway there is a lot of potential here, even if we were to create a new tiddler type of say "bundle", that used my proposed import but not get replaced as per the idea documented here;

Suggested Import mechanisium refactor for hackability #4231

I can explain further the value in such an mechanism if you wish, but perhaps the possibilities are obvious to you.

• Packed data tiddlers
• Restorable and removable data with a click save and reload to add or remove
• Canned sets of config tiddlers to toggle multiple tiddler states
• Ability to drag and drop to other wikis, a bundle defined in one wiki to another
• A method by which to host and distribute json files of tiddlers (which are not active in the source wiki) without needing to upload independant files to the host.
• A method by which a developer can commit tiddlers into a plugin bundle and selectively overwrite tiddlers to release a new version. Once happy commit these changes back into the plugin. 
• A way to distribute macros (excluding javascript plugin code) which can be selectively activated and deactivated. Especially good for designer tools.

Apart from the import hackability I expect we would need a mechanism to optional delete imported or overwritten (shadow) tiddlers, so they do not remain in the wiki after the info plugin is disabled or deleted. And perhaps a method to list such pseudo plugins. I wonder if the lack of this clean up could cause problems already when people add/edit/delete plugins because the overwritten tiddlers will remain as a legacy.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Folks,

I built a Tiddler bundle to display info plugins in Control panel > Plugins > Info

Attached, just remove the .txt extension before dropping on a test wiki. Then if you follow the instructions in my last post you can make your own info bundle.

Only one core tiddler is changed for this example $:/core/ui/ControlPanel/Plugins although others will look as if they came with the core given I reused the naming standards.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Observation

The fact that in the normal turn of events a shadow tiddler remains a shadow tiddler until edited, then if you remove the plugin that defined that tiddler, the edited tiddler remains, is actually a bonus. Of course there will be cases where you want them deleted such as when removing test data. However it also allows you to edit tiddlers you want to keep in the wiki, and on deleting the plugin tiddler, the tiddlers you never edited will be removed from the wiki, is a useful way to selectively incorporate tiddlers from a repository and remove those you do not need, helping develop leaner wikis.

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM

I'd suggest that export to JSON of ONLY what is needed would likely help well, if not better. A newbie would not know what you are talking about :-).

BUT, an issue, too, in the background, is we respect plugin authors and tend to avoid, in public, partially using them. 

I think that is one of the reasons complete "app. packages", combining plugins or parts of them, plus hacks are RARE publicly on TW. 

Though obviously huge in private practice.

So there is a communal aspect in play too.

Askance thoughts

TT

[TonyM]

Tt

I am afraid I can't quite catch your thoughts here.

I know this post changed direction but I have proven to myself a hack that I can already make use of and with little effort can help the community make more of tiddlywiki.

To be clear I am not changing any existing plugin, more coopting the mechanisium for other purposes. Which will in fact satisfy a number of issues raised and on github.

Regards
Tony