batch scripts for Windows installation

[FND]

I have just created two batch scripts to further simplify the
installation process on Windows:
http://gist.github.com/235101
I've also updated the docs accordingly:
http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#%5B%5BInstalling%20on%20Windows%5D%5D
Please let me know whether this works.

Chris, should we perhaps host them as static files on tiddlyweb.com, so
people don't have to manually copy and paste?

It should be rather simple to take this now and create a PortableApps
distribution* by packaging it with Portable Python (thus the use of App
and Data directories in both scripts).
Any volunteers?

-- F.

* http://portableapps.com/development/portableapps.com_format
cf. http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/t/492cd3b3e99ca906

[Måns]

Hi Fnd

Great job - now I *must* be able to do an install... I certainly will
make an attempt..

http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#%5B%5BInstalling%20on%20Windows%5D%5D
Do you mean Portable Python 1.1 - based on Python 2.5.4 - size 64 mb?
http://portablepython.com/wiki/PortablePython1.1Py2.5.4

YS Måns Mårtensson

On 15 Nov., 10:28, FND <F...@gmx.net> wrote:
> I have just created two batch scripts to further simplify the
> installation process on Windows:http://gist.github.com/235101

> I've also updated the docs accordingly:http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#%5B%5BInstalling%20on%20Windows%5...

[FND]

> http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#%5B%5BInstalling%20on%20Windows%5D%5D
> Do you mean Portable Python 1.1 - based on Python 2.5.4 - size 64 mb?

Yep, that's right.

-- F.

[Måns]

Hi Fnd

This took a long time I'm afraid - and I didn't dare to come back
untill I had tried any possible combination of moving things around,
untill I finally copied the installed Pythonpackage files to the right
location
\Portable\TiddlyWeb\App\Python\
I thought I was following your advice when I used the setupexecutables
browseoption to set the path - however it didn't work - because it
created yet another directory called PortablePython_1.1_py2.5.4)
I got a little confused and read the guest-remarks on TiddlyWeb, which
made me experiment with the bat files - moving them around at first -
but ofcourse that didn't help...
I also moved the Python files around a few times...

I must be a perfect example of *how* stupid a "layman" (nonprogrammer)
can behave when he tries to solve a problem not having the most basic
understanding of things...

Finally I looked into the bat files looking for paths and went through
every step of the installation once more..

Now my first instance has been made - and I have successfully run
TiddlyWeb as localhost. :-)

Maybe someone like me shoulden't be allowed to play with TiddlyWeb in
the first place - However
now I have read through most of the documentation on TiddlyWeb - and
still need some basic hints on "how to cook and make recipies" - I'd
like to make a twimport of a basic tiddlywikidocument (if that is what
you are supposed to do?) and find out how to create an user etc ....

Have you (or someone else) made a (simple) step-by-step tutorial
addressing these things?
Is it possible to create and administer things via the browser or do I
have to get into the python cmd thing....?

YS Måns Mårtensson



On 15 Nov., 12:16, FND <F...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >http://tiddlyweb.peermore.com/wiki/#%5B%5BInstalling%20on%20Windows%5...

[Måns]

Ok I've learned that you can use twanager or the HTTP API to do stuff
- however I don't find any documentation on how to invoke neither - I
like the Python editors SPE and PyScripter. When it comes to cmds and
the Linux-way of doing things - I get a bit uneasy. (I prefer Muppy
(Puppy-Linux with miniSys-server running my laptop with a broken
harddisk - from my usb))
So anything with a graphical userinterface, preferrably using icons -
makes me very happy...
Currently I'm working on my old T-30 (20Gb hd, 512 mb ram) and
installed TiddlyWeb on a small partition (F) 1.7 Gb ½ Gb left..
Windows Xp pro.

If I understand things right, next step is either to run a recipe (an
already split TW) to fill bags with tiddlers *or* I can import an
existing TW, which will be split into different bags during the import
process...

I have several ideas - but I would prefer to do a clean "install" or
"splitting" of an almost empty TiddlyWiki - to get started and
discover the possibilities..

My question:
How do I install a TW in TiddlyWeb? Can I use the Html-Api or, if I
have to use py-Tools, - can I use one of the tools that provide more
than a cmd?

YS Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

> Now my first instance has been made - and I have successfully run
> TiddlyWeb as localhost. :-)

Great - sorry to hear you had such a hard time...

> still need some basic hints on "how to cook and make recipies" - I'd
> like to make a twimport of a basic tiddlywikidocument (if that is what
> you are supposed to do?) and find out how to create an user etc ....

Well, there's currently no web interface for that (hopefully soon-ish),
so you're left with twanager on the command line - which admittedly is a
bit tricky to invoke with this portable setup.

I've just added two scripts to simplify this:
http://gist.github.com/235101
http://gist.github.com/raw/235101/208db3525eaa68c06c1a99acbe71c1a954cdb6da/manage.bat
http://gist.github.com/raw/235101/834f3fe414a95f9be294bfb9616b973291322938/twanager.bat
Put both manage.bat and twanager.bat in the same directory as the other
batch files; manage.bat is just a simple way to get to the command
prompt - from there you can run twanager.bat (e.g. "twanager.bat info").

> How do I install a TW in TiddlyWeb?

Just click through to the wiki representation of your chosen collection,
or go directly to http://localhost:8080/recipes/default/tiddlers.wiki.

I hope this helps you get a better idea of how things fit together, and
continue your exploration.

-- F.

[FND]

> from there you can run twanager.bat (e.g. "twanager.bat info")

By the way, if you invoke any commands that expect input, you terminate
this with CTRL+Z and Enter:

C:\Portable\TiddlyWeb>twanager.bat tiddler common Foo
modifier: FND

lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
^Z

-- F.

[Måns]

Hi Fnd

> I've just added two scripts to simplify this:http://gist.github.com/235101http://gist.github.com/raw/235101/208db3525eaa68c06c1a99acbe71c1a954c...http://gist.github.com/raw/235101/834f3fe414a95f9be294bfb9616b9732913...

> Put both manage.bat and twanager.bat in the same directory as the other
> batch files; manage.bat is just a simple way to get to the command
> prompt - from there you can run twanager.bat (e.g. "twanager.bat info").

Thanks for making life easier for a noob!

> > How do I install a TW in TiddlyWeb?
>
> Just click through to the wiki representation of your chosen collection,
> or go directly tohttp://localhost:8080/recipes/default/tiddlers.wiki.

I'm afraid my recipes directory is empty

> I hope this helps you get a better idea of how things fit together, and
> continue your exploration.

I've tried to run different commands with twanager (.bat) via
manage.bat - ltidders show me that there are no tiddlers in the
system.
I tried to run imwiki to import/split tiddlers from a normal TW (/
TiddlyWeb/MyWiki.html) into a bag that I made myself - I imported
files (policy etc) from the bag "system" made by the TiddlyWeb
installation and put them in a new directory (bag) placed in the same
directory as "system"..

That didn't work..

I also tried to use twimport to get tiddlers from a TW via an Url -
but I recon I must import a readymade package of tiddlers for use with
TiddlyWeb?? - that didn't work either..

It seems that I was successfull when I used the command adduser
username password role with twanager.bat adduser mm 1232 admin

However I don't know how to use my new user - or what the roles stand
for?

As you can read from my post - I'm quite lost... Was the installation
initially successfull when the recipes directory is empty?
Can't I import tiddlers to my own bag?
Was it correct when I copied files from "system" to my own bag?

Sorry to be such a "problemspammer" - hope you forgive me for not
understanding things right away... I actually read a lot (even if I
only understand 1/4 of the documentation)- however I get the
impression that there's a lot of learning by doing needed here....

Thanks for helping me out - so far

YS Måns Mårtensson
> -- F.

[FND]

> I'm afraid my recipes directory is empty

Then I'm afraid something's wrong - you should have a "default" recipe.
Perhaps run install.bat again.

It would help if you could illustrate your directory structure - it
should look something like this: http://i45.tinypic.com/15ee1zn.jpg
(Really, Windows, you make me take a screenshot?)

-- F.

[Måns]

Hi again

> Then I'm afraid something's wrong - you should have a "default" recipe.
> Perhaps run install.bat again.

Tried that - no success..

> It would help if you could illustrate your directory structure - it
> should look something like this:http://i45.tinypic.com/15ee1zn.jpg
> (Really, Windows, you make me take a screenshot?)

http://tinyurl.com/yha7hpv (5 screenshots)

YS Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

Can I install TiddlyWebWiki by itself? - manually I mean..
It wasn't installed during the TiddlyWeb installation..

Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

I guess I have to experiment

> Can I install TiddlyWebWiki by itself? - manually I mean..
> It wasn't installed during the TiddlyWeb installation..

I've downloaded tiddlywebwiki-0.13.0.tar.gz - I can extract it with
7zip -
My question is - where do I put everything? - Or is there a command
which I must run on the tar.gz file - to get everything installed
where it should?

Regards Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

>> > Then I'm afraid something's wrong - you should have a "default" recipe.
>> > Perhaps run install.bat again.
>
> Tried that - no success..

It works just fine for me; when I double-click on install.bat,
Data\instance is created with some default store contents - two bags and
one recipe.
This is especially odd since the rest seems to work fine for you.
Not being able to reproduce your problem makes it hard to analyze, of
course.

> http://tinyurl.com/yha7hpv (5 screenshots)

That all looks alright.[1]

> Can I install TiddlyWebWiki by itself? - manually I mean..
> It wasn't installed during the TiddlyWeb installation..

I can't really relate to this - how do you know?
Maybe start the whole process again, and make a screenshot of the
command prompt when running install.bat.

> I've downloaded tiddlywebwiki-0.13.0.tar.gz - I can extract it with
> 7zip - My question is - where do I put everything? - Or is there a command
> which I must run on the tar.gz file - to get everything installed

This is not a good idea unless you know what you're doing. The batch
files are supposed to take care of this for you, using easy_install to
download the tarball and install the package in your Python environment.


-- F.


[1] Please don't use TiyURLs if you don't have to; tinyurl.com was down
just now, so I had trouble getting the document[2] again.
[2] That TiddlyWiki with resizing images is cute, but ultimately
annoying; I'd much rather have just direct links to the full-size image.

[Måns]

Hi F

> I can't really relate to this - how do you know?

There's no index file html or php - (My ignorant conclusion: no wiki
to open) - and nothing but empty directories (except for system) ...

> Maybe start the whole process again, and make a screenshot of the
> command prompt when running install.bat.

Tried again - but I have forgotten how to prevent the cmd from closing
down very fast... (just a blink) Therefore my sreenshot is incomplete
*

> [1] Please don't use TiyURLs if you don't have to; tinyurl.com was down
> just now, so I had trouble getting the document[2] again.
> [2] That TiddlyWiki with resizing images is cute, but ultimately
> annoying; I'd much rather have just direct links to the full-size image.

Allright:
*
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/Install_bat_run.png

regards Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

I found a way to stop the cmd from closing:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-19_ScrDmp.png

regards Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

Btw - When I use launch.bat the page opens so much faster than the cmd
that I have to reload the page several times untill Cherry.Py is
running properly...

r. Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

> There's no index file html or php - (My ignorant conclusion: no wiki
> to open)

Yes, that's not quite how it works. The TiddlyWiki document is generated
on the fly by TiddlyWeb. Using Python rather than PHP.

> Tried again - but I have forgotten how to prevent the cmd from closing
> down very fast...

Add PAUSE to the end of the batch file. (I thought I'd done this? Maybe
not... )

> I found a way to stop the cmd from closing:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-19_ScrDmp.png

Ah, that's not gonna work of course.
a) The instance directory already exists, which means the process is
aborted (we wouldn't wanna overwrite existing data).
b) TiddlyWebWiki is already installed. The scripts currently don't try
to reinstall the package. Could you try actually starting from scratch,
not reusing your current Python (or any of the TiddlyWeb) directory?

> Btw - When I use launch.bat the page opens so much faster than the cmd
> that I have to reload the page several times untill Cherry.Py is
> running properly...

I'm aware of that, but haven't found a good way around it - blame
Windows scripting.


-- F.

[Måns]

Ok - I'll remove Portable Python and delete everything to start over
again..
I'll be back.

regards Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

I tried to do everything right from the beginning this time
created a directory F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb
installed Portable Python 1.1 - based on Python 2.5.4 to
F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb\App\Python\
put install.bat and launch.bat in F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb:
- and the installation of TiddlyWeb is documented here:
Images from the cmdprompt:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/1.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/3.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/4.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/5.png

My directories after new install:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall1.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall2.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall3.png

Now I can't find any bags, recipies what ever - at all??

Regards Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

launch.bat can't either...

On 19 Nov., 23:35, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried to do everything right from the beginning this time
> created a directory F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb
> installed Portable Python 1.1 - based on Python 2.5.4 to
> F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb\App\Python\
> put install.bat and launch.bat in F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb:
> - and the installation of TiddlyWeb is documented here:

> Images from the cmdprompt:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/1.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/3.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/4.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/5.png
>
> My directories after new install:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall1.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall2.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall3.png

[Måns]

Ok I found recipes here:
F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb\App\Python\App\Lib\site-packages\wsgifront-0.9.9-
py2.5.egg\wsgifront\recipes
But no bags..

Where do I move launch.bat? It doesn't seem to work in this location
anymore..

Regards Måns Mårtensson

On 19 Nov., 23:37, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> launch.bat can't either...
>
> On 19 Nov., 23:35, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I tried to do everything right from the beginning this time
> > created a directory F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb
> > installed Portable Python 1.1 - based on Python 2.5.4 to
> > F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb\App\Python\
> > put install.bat and launch.bat in F:\Portable\TiddlyWeb:
> > - and the installation of TiddlyWeb is documented here:

> > Images from the cmdprompt:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/1.pnghttp://dl.dropbo...
>
> > My directories after new install:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall1.pnghttp://d...

[Måns]

ran install again:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/6.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/7.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/8.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/9.png

- Now launch.bat works!! (when kickstarting CherryPy twice..)
And I have a Data directory with an instance!!
Still nothing in recipes folder though. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/pInstall4.png

regards Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

Thanks for going through this trouble, M�ns.

Unfortunately, I'm still not sure what the problem might be.
Do you have a reliable internet connection? It seems like that might be
the problem.

One more idea, as a bit of a last resort: On line 7 in install.bat,
replace "easy_install-script.py" with "easy_install-script.py -U" and
run re-run the script. This might compensate for intermittent
connectivity issues.

If that doesn't help, do you have access to a different machine where
you could try this?


-- F.

[Måns]

Hi Fnd

I replaced "easy_install-script.py" with "easy_install-script.py -U"
and
run re-run the script. Nothing happened. Then I deleted Data and
rerun:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231.png

Nothing new..

Then I deleted everything (incl. portable Python)and repeated every
step in the installation - this time with the altered install.bat:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231a.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231b.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231c.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231d.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231e.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231f.png
Still nothing in recipe directory (however it seems that everything
*was* installed at once this time):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231g.png
Rerun install.bat:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%232.png

Sorry - but it doesn't seem to work here...

Regards Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%231.png

This suggests there's a character encoding issue - try adding the
following line to install.bat, right below "setlocal":
set PYTHON_EGG_CACHE=%CD%\Data\cache

(If this works, we both owe Chris some cake.)


-- F.

[Måns]

Hi Fnd

Now my install.bat looks like this:

@echo off

setlocal
set PYTHON_EGG_CACHE=%CD%\Data\cache

set python_path=App\Python\App
set instance_path=Data\instance

%python_path%\python.exe %python_path%\Scripts\easy_install-script.py -
U tiddlywebwiki && ^
md Data && ^
%python_path%\python.exe %python_path%\Scripts\twinstance
%instance_path%
pause

When I ran it (not having deleted anything from former install) I got
this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233.png

Still nothing in recipe.

Then I deleted Data and Portable Python and ran the (modified)
install.bat again:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233a.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233b.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233c.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233d.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233e.png

Now I got a file in the recipe directory "default"
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234a.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234b.png

And the Wiki WORKS :-) HOORAY
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%235.png

Now I can explore the imwiki command with twanager and see what I get
out of it..
Shall I create new bags manually - or pr cmd or are they created by
the importprocess?

Thanks for following me this far! - It's been quite a "stroll" - or
"walk around the bush" or what ever you Englishmen might call it..

Now Chris must have some cake - or several cookies ... (I suspect this
expression is only funny for someone who's not speaking English as a
living :-))

Regards Måns Mårtensson

[Måns]

**** for a living - of course..

On 20 Nov., 16:37, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Fnd
>
> Now my install.bat looks like this:
>
> @echo off
> setlocal
> set PYTHON_EGG_CACHE=%CD%\Data\cache
>
> set python_path=App\Python\App
> set instance_path=Data\instance
>
> %python_path%\python.exe %python_path%\Scripts\easy_install-script.py -
> U tiddlywebwiki && ^
> md Data && ^
> %python_path%\python.exe %python_path%\Scripts\twinstance
> %instance_path%
> pause
>
> When I ran it (not having deleted anything from former install) I got
> this:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233.png
>
> Still nothing in recipe.
>
> Then I deleted Data and Portable Python and ran the (modified)

> install.bat again:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233a.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233b.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233c.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233d.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%233e.png
>
> Now I got a file in the recipe directory "default"http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234a.pnghttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%234b.png
>
> And the Wiki WORKS :-) HOORAYhttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/1064531/screendmp/toFnd/2009-11-20_%235.png

[Måns]

Wrong - forgot a very important step

> Then I deleted Data and Portable Python and ran the (modified)
> install.bat again:

should have been:
Then I deleted Data and Portable Python and reinstalled Portable

Python and ran the (modified)
install.bat again:

regards Måns Mårtensson

[FND]

> the Wiki WORKS :-) HOORAY

Cake ahoy!

> Shall I create new bags manually - or pr cmd or are they created by
> the importprocess?

I'm fairly sure the imwiki command does not create bags (what
permissions model would it use?), so you're gonna have to do that in
advance (unless you just use the "common" bag).
The easy way to do that is to just copy the "common" directory. The
proper way, of course, is to use "twanager[.bat] bag" and supply a JSON
string with description and policy - at least until there's a web-based
admin tool.

> Thanks for following me this far!

Thanks for your exceptional endurance!


-- F.

[Måns]

Ellas Bakehouse (Covent Garden - a little to pricey I guess?), Greggs
(Strand) or Paul Ltd (Bedford Street)- then of course there's the
french bakery .... and which cake?
The white one, nr 2 from the left top (with strawberry) looks good -
He might like that one.
http://assets2.qypecdn.net/uploads/photos/0094/2893/IMG_2085_gallery.JPG?31237

R Måns

[Måns]

Sorry - wrong address - should have been: 1a Broadway Street,London,
So it's Greggs or Stiles then..
I couldn't find any way of ordering a cake online (cash only)- so I
have to owe you this one..

YS Måns Mårtensson

On 20 Nov., 17:01, Måns <humam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ellas Bakehouse (Covent Garden - a little to pricey I guess?), Greggs
> (Strand) or Paul Ltd (Bedford Street)- then of course there's the
> french bakery .... and which cake?
> The white one, nr 2 from the left top (with strawberry) looks good -

> He might like that one.http://assets2.qypecdn.net/uploads/photos/0094/2893/IMG_2085_gallery....

[FND]

> Sorry - wrong address - should have been: 1a Broadway Street,London,
> So it's Greggs or Stiles then..
> I couldn't find any way of ordering a cake online (cash only)- so I
> have to owe you this one..

Wow, you actually went to look up where to get cake? Kudos, sir...
Your feedback was valuable, so I guess we'd owe you some cake as well.


-- F.