Tidal Force M-750 - Charging

[Wannabe Rider]

When my M-750 bike is plugged into charger, the charger goes through
sequence of yellow flashing, to green flashing, to total green, while
the bike display monitor red lights are all lit and flashing.
However, when the power is pulled from the charger, and the ignition
key is turned to the on position, nothing happens (ie. no power) when
the throttle is pushed.
Does the fact that the battery charger goes to total green and the
display monitor lights are all on and flashing when in charging mode
mean that the battery is OK, but there is a problem with the
electrical connection, or is the battery not really able to take a
charge?
Thanks to anyone who can help!

[Geo Rider]

Wannabe,
Did you tap the A battery button after turning on the key to turn on
the battery? There is a 750 user's manual here in the Files section
if you don't have one.
Do any of the lights turn on when you turn on the key and then tap the
battery button? Alternatively you can toggle the key on/off twice to
turn on the battery (turning on the battery is what turns on the
bike.)
Once the battery comes on, do you see a series of LEDs blink on on the
right side (I forget the color sequence, blue first I think).
Sounds like from your sequence of charging LED lights that you have
the older grey metal charger that has a fan, not the white plastic
one?
A stuck brake switch can keep the throttle from working.
Good luck and get back to us to let us know how you're doing!
Best,
joe

[Richard Papa]

Poor you! Sounds like a connector issue but you never know.

First, disconnect everything and take a good hard look at the power
terminals. If they have a brownish tint to them is could be arching. Will
need to clean with electrical contact cleaner and wire wool. It's a tricky
delicate job. If that does not work then we need to look at other things
like the dash throttle. But it does sound like a cable issue. I had one
terminal slightly not seated correctly. I was luck as a top electrical
engineer found my problem otherwise I would have never found it. Worst case
scenario is sending any defective parts to LEVT. They are our TidalForce
saviors! But let's see if we can try a few things before you go that far.

I'll let the group add more but please take a quick look (use a torch) and
get back to us.

Good luck!

Rich

[bill_von]

On Jun 11, 3:20 pm, Wannabe Rider <petertstei...@aol.com> wrote:

> Does the fact that the battery charger goes to total green and the
> display monitor lights are all on and flashing when in charging mode
> mean that the battery is OK

It means the battery is probably OK. However, the battery does not
connect to the motor via the charging line, so the battery could be
disconnected from the motor and you'd never know from looking at it.

Things to try:

1) When you push the A button, do you get all the lights on the dash
to flash momentarily? If yes, then the motor is getting power. If
not, then you have a disconnected/bad power cable somewhere.

2) If you get the lights (and the buttons respond) but the throttle
doesn't work it's probably the throttle connection. Try getting it up
to 15mph by pedaline and then pressing the cruise button. If the
motor takes over then it's the throttle.

[Richard Papa]

Good stuff Bill! Especially the 15mph cruse method! Way cool!

I just thought of another problem I had and that was a loose wire on the
rear power terminal. I wriggled the connector and the bike powered on/off.
If I turned the bike on nothing... but a wiggle showed some contact. All it
needed was tightening the inner terminal clamp thingy. But I had a job
getting the connector off. I think it was our Cliff who posted a diagram of
how to do it. Just an idea...

Good luck,

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of bill_von
Sent: 12 June 2009 01:35
To: TidalForce Forum

[Richard Papa]

Good stuff Joe!

-----Original Message-----
From: Tidal...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Tidal...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Geo Rider
Sent: 12 June 2009 01:22
To: TidalForce Forum
Subject: [TF] Re: Tidal Force M-750 - Charging

[deerfencer1]

>
> I just thought of another problem I had and that was a loose wire on the
> rear power terminal. I wriggled the connector and the bike powered on/off.
> If I turned the bike on nothing... but a wiggle showed some contact. All it
> needed was tightening the inner terminal clamp thingy. <<

Rich and Wannabe (and all),

I'm glad Rich mentioned this as it's been a semi-recurrent bug on my
bike--one of the very few--and so infrequent (a couple times a
season?) that I've neglected to do a permanent fix to date, though I
have it on my short list as I just had an incident a few days ago and
it's time to do a permanent fix.

Bottom line: the rear Delphi connector to the motor is indeed capable
of mysteriously losing the electrical contact within despite any
outward sign of the connector being loose, cutting all power to the
motor and causing all the dashboard lights to go out. I've had this
happen both mid-ride on the bike and in my driveway just after
plugging in my (non-WC) aux packs.

This is one of the main reasons I am NOT a fan of the Delphi
connectors, and plan to replace the connector soon with the beefy 75A
Anderson Power Poles. If you look at the actual metal contacts inside
the Delphi, especially the thin male parts (mine look blackened BTW),
they don't inspire a lot of confidence, at least compared to the huge
metal tongues that the 75A Andersons have.

Finally, ff you do any modifications back there, be sure to waterproof
it all with silicon, goop, and/or electrical tape.

LH

[petert...@aol.com]

Rich,
Thank you for taking the time to try to assist!  Not having a bike shop to help in the area that deals with electric bikes, makes this a challenge, to say the least.
You have given me some good ideas to work with that I will try out.  Am I correct in thinking that since the battery goes to green and all the red lights blink while charging that it is probably not a battery issue?  Also, I actually have 2 of these M-750 bikes that apparently were used overseas by the military.  I have been fiddling with them for a couple of months and learning very slowly...
Regards,
Peter

---

Shop Dell's full line of Laptops now starting at $349!

[petert...@aol.com]

Bill,
Thank you for your assistance.  It sounds like you do not think it is a dead battery which is one good sign for me.  I will go through the sequence of review as you have outlined and see if that can focus in on the problem and fix.
Regards
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: bill_von <bil...@dropzone.com>
To: TidalForce Forum <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 8:34 pm
Subject: [TF] Re: Tidal Force M-750 - Charging

On Jun 11, 3:20 pm, Wannabe Rider <petertstei...@aol.com> wrote:

> Does the fact that the battery charger goes to total green and the
> display monitor lights are all on and flashing when in charging mode
> mean that the battery is OK

It means the battery is probably OK.  However, the battery does not
connect to the motor via the charging line, so the battery could be
disconnected from the motor and you'd never know from looking at it.

Things to try:

1) When you push the A button, do you get all the lights on the dash
to flash momentarily?  If yes, then the motor is getting power.  If
not, then you have a disconnected/bad power cable somewhere.

2) If you get the lights (and the buttons respond) but the throttle
doesn't work it's probably the throttle connection.  Try getting it up
to 15mph by pedaline and then pressing the cruise button.  If the
motor takes over then it's the throttle.

[petert...@aol.com]

LH,
Thank you for your advice.  I will try out your suggestions.
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: deerfencer1 <deerf...@aol.com>
To: TidalForce Forum <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 7:28 am
Subject: [TF] Re: Tidal Force M-750 - Charging

>
> I just thought of another problem I had and that was a loose wire on the
> rear power terminal.  I wriggled the connector and the bike powered on/off.
> If I turned the bike on nothing... but a wiggle showed some contact. All it
> needed was tightening the inner terminal clamp thingy. <<

Rich and Wannabe (and all),

I'm glad Rich mentioned this as it's been a semi-recurrent bug on my
bike--one of the very few--and so infrequent (a couple times a
season?) that I've neglected to do a permanent fix to date, though I
have it on my short list as I just had an incident a few days ago and
it's time to do a permanent fix.

Bottom line: the rear Delphi connector to the motor is indeed capable
of mysteriously losing the electrical contact within despite any
outward sign of the connector being loose, cutting all power to the
motor and causing all the dashboard lights to go out. I've had this
happen both mid-ride on the bike and in my driveway just after
plugging in my (non-WC) aux packs.

This is one of the main reasons I am NOT a fan of the Delphi
connectors, and plan to replace the connector soon with the beefy 75A
Anderson Power Poles. If you look at the actual metal contacts inside
the Delphi, especially the thin male parts (mine look blackened BTW),
they don't inspire a lot of confidence, at least compared to the huge
metal tongues that the 75A Andersons have.

Finally, ff you do any modifications back there, be sure to waterproof
it all with silicon, goop, and/or electrical tape.

LH

[petert...@aol.com]

Joe,
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to try to help me. 
Yes, I did try to tap the A battery.  I actually have 2 of these bikes that I picked up from the US military that were apparently used overseas.  The first bike went on momentarily after tapping A battery, as did the color lights for regen and the other one(?).  However, they went off again quickly thereafter and there was no power when I hit the throttle.  The second bike light did not come on at all after turning ignition to on and hitting A battery.  Also, the charger itself is the white one that I just picked up for $200 fro LEVT.  I will keep playing with it, but if you think of anything else, it is appreciated from my side.
Regards,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Geo Rider <joe...@gmail.com>
To: TidalForce Forum <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 8:21 pm
Subject: [TF] Re: Tidal Force M-750 - Charging

Wannabe,
Did you tap the A battery button after turning on the key to turn on
the battery?  There is a 750 user's manual here in the Files section
if you don't have one.
Do any of the lights turn on when you turn on the key and then tap the
battery button?  Alternatively you can toggle the key on/off twice to
turn on the battery (turning on the battery is what turns on the
bike.)
Once the battery comes on, do you see a series of LEDs blink on on the
right side (I forget the color sequence, blue first I think).
Sounds like from your sequence of charging LED lights that you have
the older grey metal charger that has a fan, not the white plastic
one?
A stuck brake switch can keep the throttle from working.
Good luck and get back to us to let us know how you're doing!
Best,
joe

On Jun 11, 6:20 pm, Wannabe Rider <petertstei...@aol.com> wrote:
> When my M-750 bike is plugged into charger,  the charger goes through
> sequence of yellow flashing, to green flashing, to total green, while
> the bike display monitor red lights are all lit and flashing.
> However, when the power is pulled from the charger, and the ignition
> key is turned to the on position, nothing happens (ie. no power) when
> the throttle is pushed.
> Does the fact that the battery charger goes to total green and the
> display monitor lights are all on and flashing when in charging mode
> mean that the battery is OK, but there is a problem with the
> electrical connection, or is the battery not really able to take a
> charge?
> Thanks to anyone who can help!

[deerfencer1]

Peter,

It sure sounds like a connector issue to me, so play with jiggling the
connector strapped to the rear frame triangle leading to the motor and
see if the lights flash on, even momentarily. If they do, I'd bet good
$$ a solid reconnection here would solve at least this part of your
problem.

Unfortunately if your bikes are as old as they sound, the original
battery packs are probably history--or at least of very reduced
capacity. But that's a whole nother story--and fix.

Regards,

Larry Hayes

On Jun 12, 11:59 am, petertstei...@aol.com wrote:
> Joe,

> Firstly, thank you for taking the time to try to help me.?
> Yes, I did try to tap the A battery.? I actually have 2 of these bikes that I picked up from the US military that were apparently used overseas.? The first bike went on momentarily after tapping A battery, as did the color lights for regen and the other one(?).? However, they went off again quickly thereafter and there was no power when I hit the throttle.? The second bike light did not come on at all after turning ignition to on and hitting A battery.? Also, the charger itself is the white one that I just picked up for $200 fro LEVT.? I will keep playing with it, but if you think of anything else, it is appreciated from my side.

> Regards,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geo Rider <joe...@gmail.com>
> To: TidalForce Forum <Tidal...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 8:21 pm
> Subject: [TF] Re: Tidal Force M-750 - Charging
>
> Wannabe,
> Did you tap the A battery button after turning on the key to turn on
> the battery? There is a 750 user's manual here in the Files section
> if you don't have one.
> Do any of the lights turn on when you turn on the key and then tap the
> battery button? Alternatively you can toggle the key on/off twice to
> turn on the battery (turning on the battery is what turns on the
> bike.)
> Once the battery comes on, do you see a series of LEDs blink on on the
> right side (I forget the color sequence, blue first I think).
> Sounds like from your sequence of charging LED lights that you have
> the older grey metal charger that has a fan, not the white plastic
> one?
> A stuck brake switch can keep the throttle from working.
> Good luck and get back to us to let us know how you're doing!
> Best,
> joe
>

> On Jun 11, 6:20?pm, Wannabe Rider <petertstei...@aol.com> wrote:
> > When my M-750 bike is plugged into charger, ?the charger goes through

[OptOut]

The normal LED charge sequence is 

1) blinking green rapid charge

2) blinking amber balance charge

3) steady green slow trickle charge (done)

It's normal for the 1 to 5 battery state of charge (soc) leds to blink while charging and to go from 1 to 5 depending on how discharged the batterystarted at. 

The LEDs are independent of the actual state of true battery condition and merely measure energy going in and out. You could put a volt meter on the B battery connection when the battery is turned on and charged. You should see about 42 volts. That drops to around 37 as the battery nears empty. Bad batteries can still show good no load voltage. 

Your 2 bikes may have 2 different problems. You can remove both the brake switches and the key from inside the controller to eliminate them as possible causes for not working. Just use the battery button to turn the bike on and off. Push and hold till the soc lights go out to turn it off. Tap to turn on. If it still doesn't work it could be connectors or the battery. 
The soc lights should always come on when the battery is turned on. 

A voltmeter will cone in handy. 

Good luck and let us know how you're doing. 

LEVT can fix any problems. 

Best,

Joe (mobile)