Catch and Release question

[TurbineBlade]

Hi -- I was curious about the pervasive practice of C/R that I see most fly fishermen tend to do....presumably for all species and all size classes of fish caught.  Does anyone know approximately when this developed with fly fishing?  Since I've lived in the DC area I've literally released ALL fish my wife and I have caught without even a second thought, but I was wondering whether there has been any "revisionist" thinking on the subject given the better understanding we now have of population dynamics, etc.  For example, even some state agencies (Missouri Department of Conservation for example) now advocate "thinning" smaller individuals of species like bluegill/sunfish in certain waters where populations are "stunted" due to ridiculously high numbers and/or lack of resources, etc.  To me, this is sort of like the old Smokey Bear "Forest Fires are bad" stuff from 30 years ago vs. the prescribed burns we do now which we now understand are of benefit to the system. 

 

Then of course there are invasive issues (e.g. snakehead, carp, etc.) that different agencies have different approaches for depending upon where you are. 

 

I really am asking this out of genuine interest - and please keep in mind that I'm a "releaser" just like most other fly fishermen I've run into.  I don't kill fish, but I also don't like adhering to an idea without really understanding why I'm doing it.   

 

Is it just a tradition carried for the sake of tradtion?  Did it start mostly with trout or certain other more "sensitive" species that are prone to exploitation and simply carried over onto all other species?  Animal rights?

 

Thanks - and please no flame wars.  If this post makes you upset and you think you might type the word "idiot" or something, just email it directly to me ;). 

 

Gene

[NixieDC]

Gene,
Very good question.

Summer of 2000 I fished the Snake in Yellowstone for about a week. The USPS ranger who sold us our licenses told us to take two rainbows out per day, as the rainbows had been an introduced species, were then dominating, and the cuts and browns were native.

I found the directive very interesting, as my previous fishing experience had only been in the Mid-Atlantic and Wisconsin, where I'd only fished C/R.

I still don't think I've eaten anything I've caught on a fly.

MEN

[namfos]

When fishing in the area I usually release for the simple reason that I'm the only one at home who likes fresh fish.  "Fish" for the rest of the gang is basically fish sticks and canned tuna.  I dare not bring tinned sardines or smoked oysters into the house. ;-)  On summer vacation in Ontario is when I keep my catch for the table- Ontario's conservation license permits one to keep 2 bass a day and I don't remember how many panfish - and there are others who are willing help me eat them.   Just the same, I try not to be greedy and limit my kill rather than kill my limit.

[Miles]

I think the answer for DC area anglers is probably a bit more prosaic. Part of it is a general conservation mindset our sport tries to maintain.

But there's a couple other things going on, at least for me: one is the health advisories about eating fish from the Potomac system. Due to PCB contamination (I think), we are supposed to limit ourselves to one serving of bass and similar per month, and carp and catfish shouldn't be eaten at all. Beyond the official recommendations, there's a bit of an 'ick' factor knowing that the fish are probably contaminated. I don't think anybody wants to eat just a little PCB, if they can avoid it.

The second factor is effort. To bring a fish to the table on a normal warmish day, it should be refrigerated immediately. As soon as a fish dies, and even before, its tissues start degrading -- so the quality of a fish that has been caught, left in the sun for several hours, then eaten later the same day is significantly less than a fish that has been caught, flash frozen, bought at Trader Joe's, then eaten weeks later. So I would need a cooler and some ice, or some other way of chilling my catch, and that's a hassle. Most of the time, I just want to go fishing, and don't bother with the ice.

That said, I would eat a snakehead if I caught one and had a way of getting it home/chilled promptly. Same goes for American shad and striped bass, if/when they were legal.

Miles 

[Danny Barrett]

I think the C&R did start with trout.  Maybe its just me but i have a hard time keeping an wild/native trout or bass.  Most the tiny mountain streams and ponds i fish are so remote or private late that if i keep it then i cant catch it again.  Catfish on the other hand do taste good, but i just limit that to the size of water.  i have witnessed the people of asian descent that keep anything and everything.  i understand its food for them, but what do you do with a 4 inch bluegill.

 

Anyone have any points for bass as its startin to cool down?

Miles 

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[Matthew Longley]

Really interesting thread.  I don't like the idea of keeping or killing a fish that I'm going to waste, so for me C&R in the Potomac isn't even an issue for debate, because I'm not going to eat anything from there.  I was actually up in Maine a couple weeks ago (born and raised) and a 4 inch red-breasted sunfish demolished my fly and was pretty much an instant goner (bleeding pretty bad from the gills).  I didn't want it to go to waste, so I threw it in the pan.  Seriously the fillets were the size of a pringles chip split in half, no idea how you would purposefully fish these to keep.

Somewhat related topic, I had a similar situation a few nights ago on 4MR when a bluegill just demolished my small popper.  It was sitting completely inside the fish's mouth, and the popper head was the same diameter as the fishes mouth--impossible to get out.  I've read that survivabilty rates are better when just cutting off the fly and returning the fish then when really going at the fish with forceps, so I just sacrificed the popper and threw the fish back.  From a C&R perspective, was this the right thing to do?

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:24:16 AM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Danny Barrett]

Was it good?  I passed a few off to other guys this shad season.  Since then Ive heard there tasty.  Any pointers on where I can purposly hook up with them?  What better way to spend a day then fighting with toothy critters and tryin to clear the potomac.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:55 PM, FlyTimesDC <Rsmo...@targetedvictory.com> wrote:

No need for ice with snakeheads! I caught one a few years ago with Steve Chaconas (great local guide if anyone wants to learn the river!) and kept it in my smallish, igloo lunch box for more than an hour. Since they breathe air, the thing was very much alive when I brought it home and I eventually had to bleed it in the backyard to end its ordeal. I don't know who was more excited to partake in eating it, me or our thai housekeeper - who promptly left me with one fillet and took the rest of the fish home to her husband! 

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[TurbineBlade]

Good responses!  I agree that this is kind of moot with fish from the Potomac in general.  Well, at least in our area here.  If there are advisories against children or pregnant women eating the fish -- I darn sure don't want to eat 'em either ;). 

 

Gene

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 2:57:38 PM UTC-4, Danny Barrett wrote:

Was it good?  I passed a few off to other guys this shad season.  Since then Ive heard there tasty.  Any pointers on where I can purposly hook up with them?  What better way to spend a day then fighting with toothy critters and tryin to clear the potomac.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:55 PM, FlyTimesDC <Rsmo...@targetedvictory.com> wrote:

No need for ice with snakeheads! I caught one a few years ago with Steve Chaconas (great local guide if anyone wants to learn the river!) and kept it in my smallish, igloo lunch box for more than an hour. Since they breathe air, the thing was very much alive when I brought it home and I eventually had to bleed it in the backyard to end its ordeal. I don't know who was more excited to partake in eating it, me or our thai housekeeper - who promptly left me with one fillet and took the rest of the fish home to her husband! 

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:20:21 AM UTC-4, Miles wrote:

I think the answer for DC area anglers is probably a bit more prosaic. Part of it is a general conservation mindset our sport tries to maintain.

But there's a couple other things going on, at least for me: one is the health advisories about eating fish from the Potomac system. Due to PCB contamination (I think), we are supposed to limit ourselves to one serving of bass and similar per month, and carp and catfish shouldn't be eaten at all. Beyond the official recommendations, there's a bit of an 'ick' factor knowing that the fish are probably contaminated. I don't think anybody wants to eat just a little PCB, if they can avoid it.

The second factor is effort. To bring a fish to the table on a normal warmish day, it should be refrigerated immediately. As soon as a fish dies, and even before, its tissues start degrading -- so the quality of a fish that has been caught, left in the sun for several hours, then eaten later the same day is significantly less than a fish that has been caught, flash frozen, bought at Trader Joe's, then eaten weeks later. So I would need a cooler and some ice, or some other way of chilling my catch, and that's a hassle. Most of the time, I just want to go fishing, and don't bother with the ice.

That said, I would eat a snakehead if I caught one and had a way of getting it home/chilled promptly. Same goes for American shad and striped bass, if/when they were legal.

Miles 

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[Michael Smith]

Isn't it illegal to possess a live snakehead?

FlyTimesDC <Rsmo...@targetedvictory.com> wrote:

No need for ice with snakeheads! I caught one a few years ago with Steve Chaconas (great local guide if anyone wants to learn the river!) and kept it in my smallish, igloo lunch box for more than an hour. Since they breathe air, the thing was very much alive when I brought it home and I eventually had to bleed it in the backyard to end its ordeal. I don't know who was more excited to partake in eating it, me or our thai housekeeper - who promptly left me with one fillet and took the rest of the fish home to her husband! 

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:20:21 AM UTC-4, Miles wrote:

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Michael Smith, CISSP-ISSEP
ryb...@ryzhe.ath.cx @rybolov
http://www.guerilla-ciso.com

Sent from my Internet-enabled toaster. Please excuse the crumbs.

[Richard Farino]

Yes.  You cannot have a live snakehead in your possession.

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From: Michael Smith
Sent: 10/3/2012 9:18 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com; FlyTimesDC
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Catch and Release question

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[namfos]

Fish consumption advisory info are found here:

EPA - http://1.usa.gov/SJauNm

MD Dept of Environment - http://bit.ly/SJbam2

VA - http://1.usa.gov/SJbqS7

[FlyTimesDC]

They were brought over because of their commercial value as a food fish. I'd rank snakeheads in my top 5 favorite fish to eat  - right behind fresh snook, grouper, and redfish. But definitely ahead of fresh striped bass.  Very tasty. Great texture. White and flaky. 

Without a boat, the best places I know of to hunt for snakeheads are the Duck Pond, Tidal Basin, and mouths of Four Mile Run and Little Hunting Creek. They're sedentary in nature, so if you see one once, they'll probably be in that same general area the next time you go out - i.e. the monster at the tidal basin outflow (has anyone else seen this fish?)

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:24:16 AM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

How do you fish the mouth of 4MR without a boat? 

I was just going to add that I've seen some big ones in Hunting Creek (or Greater Hunting Creek) which is *just south of the Wilson Bridge in Alexandria.  I live right on it essentially and it's not easy to wade at the mouth where it dumps into the Potomac because it's mostly just mud, but canoe would work well.  Further up Hunting Creek wading is "so-so" and there are some very large bass and a lot of sunfish as well.  

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:24:16 AM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Speycaster]

I am not sure when trout fisherman started C/R but the movement really owes most of the credit to Ray Scott founder of BASS. He started pushing C/R in 1972.

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 6:24:16 AM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

Do you mean C/R of everything caught?  I've never heard of Ray Scott -- thanks for sharing this.  

Gene

[FlyTimesDC]

I don't. Like you said - it's too muddy of a bottom. Just a very likely place to find a snakehead and a large one at that. 

[namfos]

Lee Wulff is generally credited with C&R.  In mid to late 30s he wrote:  "Game fish are too valuable to be caught only once."   He led an extraordinary life.  See:  http://bit.ly/T5jHzD