Golf Course Pond Fishing

[Hoya (Hopeful) Bass Destroya]

This is my first time posting on the group.

A bit about me: I'm a novice fly fisherman, began fishing last year when I went out with a buddy to Gravelly Point in the late afternoon/evening. I was both figuratively and literally hooked (took one right to the shoulder). Been trout fishing out in West Virginia at Smoke Hole (came up empty and with a birds nest of tippet at the end of my line but it was a great trip nonetheless). Hit the "Pool of Giants" (up by the C&O Canal's wide water) with no luck, although it's pretty gorgeous during the fall, so that made up for it. Finally caught my first fish on a fly line two weeks ago during Shadness Madness at Fletcher's, a beautiful American Trout about 13" long. Then caught four more last week including a 16" or 17" American beauty and a few hickories.

While I know from speaking with those far more experienced than me that many consider Trout fishing the most "pure" form of fly fishing, there's something about Largemouth Bass that have really enticed me since I first got into fly fishing last year. So I went out to my golf course on Saturday evening where there's a pretty sizable pond (probably about 1.5-2 acres) and started casting. Had a 6 wt Redington rod with full sinking line and some 0x leader on it (leftover from chasing shad), put some flashy streamer (courtesy of Fly Times DC) on it and started slinging out about 20 feet and then pulling back in 3-4 inch spurts towards the shoreline. I positioned myself right by the stream that feeds into the pond (drops off about 2 ft) as my understanding is that predator fish love to sit by the freshly oxidized water and gather up critters. Anyways, on my second cast BAM, a big bass snaps into my fly and starts running the line out. I fought him in and he was popping out of the water and putting on a show, but then my knot failed and I lost not just the fish but did him the indignity of leaving the fly in his mouth. Pretty bummed about it but kept at it, got some nibbles but nothing else.

Went back tonight after reading up Sunday about how to fish ponds. Got on the water around 7:30 and fish are popping out of the water all over the place. Saw several carp lazily drifting along the shoreline although they had zero interest in what I was putting out there. Tried a similar setup, 6wt rod, 0x leader, flashy wooly bugger and drag it back in short spurts, and lo and behold I hooked another large bass. This one I had 6 ft away and thought that victory was finally mine, my clinch knot failed again. I've watched a ton of youtube videos about how to tie the knot properly, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong?

So my main question is, is there a simple solution to my knot problem? Also, I notice alot of fish rising up to the surface of the pond but they're too far out for me to cast to (I'm still learning proper technique and can't get out more than 25 feet or so). Should I stick with sinking line and streamers and buggers or move to something that floats on the surface? Any help would be much appreciated as I literally can't wait to get back on the pond tomorrow after work.

[Vic Velasco]

As the spawning season is ending and the water warms up, all the warm water fish will start to "look up" - they'll eat from the stuff landing on the surface.  Everything from seed pods, insects and duckweed all get munched.  If you want an adrenaline hit, start casting small poppers.  There will be no mistaking a take.

For knots, the knot that has never failed me is the "Orvis" knot - run the tag end through the eye of the hook and hold the tag end in your left hand (remainder of the line in your right hand).  Take the tag end and cross it under the standing end.  Continue to take the tag end around and bring it back over the standing end towards the first loop.  Take the tag end under the loop you previously formed, then direct it back towards the standing line.  Bring the tag under the second loop that was formed twice.  Pull the standing end while holding the tag end (this saves more of the tag end tippet).  Clip the excess tag end.  If this was confusing, go to one of the orvis shops and check out the leader packages - they have a drawing in the leader package.

If you want to get better at casting a fly rod, you need to hang out with a good caster and emulate what they do, and/or watch some DVDs that provide casting instructions.  I was self taught and that took me so far.  Then I saw a few people cast (Lefty Kreh, Carl Z and Chris B) and I knew I had a lot to learn.  Watch videos and breakdown your cast into as small chunks as possible so you can make corrections where/when you need to (a friend/better caster will be best here - they will help you identify mistakes and get you away from bad technique).

On your comment about trout fly fishing being the pure form... flyfishing is something you define for yourself.  I have been flyfishing for over three years now and I have never caught a trout - ever.  But I have caught my share of trevally, bonefish, grouper, emperorfish and Goatfish; to hundreds of bluegill and hundreds of bass.  I have just as much fun fishing for bluegills and pumpkinseeds as I do on the flats.  Don't let someone else define what flyfishing is for you.  Don't get me wrong, I do aspire to catch a native brookie in the SNP, but in the meantime, I fish different waters depending on where I am (and golf course ponds are great places) 

Good luck!

[Vic Velasco]

Oh - and one more thing.  If you pinch down the barbs on the flies, if a fish takes it, it will just come out easily.  This also works if you hook yourself.

On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:03:58 PM UTC-4, Hoya (Hopeful) Bass Destroya wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

+1 to Vic -- I prefer fishing barbless hooks as well.

As for your knots -- the fact that you made this post means that you need to find a new knot (to me).  I had the exact same problem with the improved clinch and switched to the uni years ago.  The improved clinch is very strong and reliable if you tie it well....but I don't, so it's not for me.  My wife ties it 100% of the time and couldn't be happier with it -- so everyone is different.  The trick is to use the tag to *mostly cinch it up over the standing line, then use your fingers to pull it down to the eye (avoiding burn) and then tighten it up pulling the standing line.  I don't bother -- the uni works great for me and is really difficult to break off when snagged.  0x and larger usually requires me to wrap it around a stick to pull or break off -- far more force than a fish is going to place when you're using the rod as a buffer and you're fishing in no current (like a pond).  

Go to your sofa with a lamp on and no cats and practice knots on youtube with a spool of 8-pound test or something.  Once you find 1-2 that you tie reliably over and over, you're set. The orvis knot is a very good one too, like Vic said.  The knot doesn't really matter so much as how well you tie it.  Then you'll remember this post one day while you're literally dragging LMB out of a pond and onto the grass at your feet with your 8-weight and giant baby blue popper ;).   

Knot failure is intolerable!  Lefty says no knot breaks until it slips and I'm sure that's true for some knots, but when you overlap coils of a knot I don't think slippage is the problem...I think cutting itself is the problem.  

So maybe it should be no knot breaks until it breaks.  

Gene

[Vic Velasco]

I found the link I use to learn new knots:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

The uni that Gene uses is in the listing, but the Orvis is not.

[Scott Stankus]

Vic, you can find a good animated example of the Orvis knot (I also swear by it) in the Orvis Learning Center. It's a commercial site, so I can't include a link, but Google knows.

--Scott

Sent from my iPhone

--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/03ccb468-9692-4f4c-a3e4-65f716c44342%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Bob Smith]

They are both listed on this site. The Uni is listed as the Duncan knot. I use the "improved" clinch knot most of the time. It has to be tied with the tag line's final pass going through the loop in the proper direction or it can slip. You also need to lubricate the line with spit before drawing it tight.

[Vic Velasco]

I just saw that - so the Orvis knot is shown - now you can stop donating lip rings to the bass gangs around town!

[tperkins]

For bass fishing, or any fishing with streamers, I like using the mono non-slip loop knot. It gives the flies better action. It is fairly easy to tie once you learn it. It is included in Vic's link. 

[TurbineBlade]

Heck, I fish a uni loop for dry flies much of the time -- I see no problem with it.  I figure less micro-drag = better, though some people don't like the more visible knot.  Everyone has a preference -- 

The non-slip mono loop is super-strong and very popular, but I tie it poorly.  

BTW - I noticed in the past with knot failure you get that kinky piece of line back when you break vs. the clean piece.  I don't know if that's always true, but I imagine it often is.  On Sunday Beth had a big brook trout smash a dry and bit the fly off instantly (6 or 7x tippet...can't recall) -- I was watching from a rock and we both couldn't believe it -- those bigger, black-headed ones have those 2 rows of more prominent teeth...kind of like picking up a rat snake or something.  We notice the large ones are more toothy, but hadn't had a bite-off until then.  

Maybe the line was already nicked or something, but it sure seemed like the fish snapped it off cleanly.  

Gene

[Mark Rehbein]

As far as knots go, I love the Palomar for larger flies. It has a 99% retention strength, and you can tie it in about 30 seconds.  There are a million youtube videos detailing how it's done, so I'll leave it up to you to find one you like.  When I fish for bass, I love to throw Clousers.  Personally, my go to colors are red/white and chartreuse/white on either a size 4 or 6 hook.  Poppers are very fun too in the evenings and I try to stick with the same colors on those as well.  I did a ton of experimentation when I went to school in NC on a farm pond in my boss' backyard. That was with floating line on a pond that averaged 3.5 feet deep.  On a deeper pond I'd probably switch to an intermediate line, but I never had a deeper pond to fish! I hope this helps! have fun.

On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:03:58 PM UTC-4, Hoya (Hopeful) Bass Destroya wrote:

[Matthew Longley]

Glad to have you on the forum.

It seems like the problem isn't WHICH knot you are tying, it's HOW you are tying it.  I use a clinch knot because I know I tie it well.  Plenty of folks use clinch knots without any fear of knot failure.  Figure out what knot you can tie well, and stick to it.  You'll have plenty of time later to learn a portfolio of new knots.

With the clinch knot, a few things:

1 - are you lubricating the knot before you tighten?  I'm manic about this, I spit on my knots 2-3 times while I'm tightening them.

2 - are you tightening the knot by pulling on the leader-end, NOT the tag-end?

3 - are you testing your knot before using it?  Good test is the hook the fly to a zipper or the handle of your forceps and give it a good tug.

4 - are you clipping the tag end too short?  If your knot failure is so late in the fight, my guess is this might have something to do with it.

As for topwater, if I were you I'd bring a small popper and a floating line out with me next time.  Nothing builds fishing confidence like having dozens of panfish hammer a popper.  Plus you'll get used to the routine of landing a fish, for the next time you have a lunker on the end of your line.

On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:03:58 PM UTC-4, Hoya (Hopeful) Bass Destroya wrote:

[Nedak]

There is a great app available for iphone and android called Knot Wars.  It walks thru the various knots and give good instructions on how to tie each giving the benefits for each.

I was OCD on knots  a few years ago but finally settled on 4:  homer rhode improved loop knot *(which upon googling is the non-sip mono loop) it-held a 4 foot tarpon on 100lb mono leader, the pitzen or san diego jam knot for terminal tackle connections,  albright for line to line connections and perfection loop for loop connections.

If its really cold, fishing for trout, and I am in a hurry I will with the clinch knot.

Pick a few and practice so you can tie them quickly.

[TurbineBlade]

Since you mentioned the albright, I should mention that Rich at Urban is possibly the best knot tyer I've ever seen.  I think maybe all the SW experience simply requires this, like you said with your tarpon.  I have a 6-weight line with one of his albrights with a piece of amnesty (?) and I don't have to heart to cut it off even though the coating is starting to crack a bit ;).  Anyone know the Offshore Idiot's Knot?

Gene

[Richard Farino]

Amnesia is the red or green stuff we use when folk want a memory-free butt section that they can use as an indicator.

For my own personal gear I usually just use stiff Umpqua mono on the end so they will turn over the rest of the leader and bulky flies better.

Flylines that have loops up front, I leave*.  For flylines that don’t have loops, I pay attention to what the inner core is made out of – they either have a braided core or a mono core.  Those with braided core I will use a nail knot with a butt section up until about 6 or 7-weight lines.  Anything larger I use an Albright.  All mono-core lines get an albright, since cinching down on a nail knot onto a line with this type of core cuts into the plastisol and coating straight to the core and can slide off easily (think fast sinking lines with a tungsten coating).

All my butt sections have a perfection loop in the end.

* - if I’m carp fishing, I generally don’t like welded loops in the front of my flyline… every strip creates a little wake and I think it spooks fish.

Thanks for the compliments.  Just takes practice.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/1aecb1e9-0582-42ab-950e-1acae87bc3a8%40googlegroups.com.

[Robert Smith]

"All mono-core lines get an albright, since cinching down on a nail knot onto a line with this type of core cuts into the plastisol and coating straight to the core and can slide off easily (think fast sinking lines with a tungsten coating)."

My nemesis slayed. Thanks Rich, and gee do I feel kinda dumb for missing that.

Sent from my iPhone

[TurbineBlade]

I just checked and it's a nail knot actually!  For some reason I was thinking albright -- I think you were showing me both one afternoon there at the table so I recalled that.

I guess I could have 'Amnesiac', one of my favorite albums.  

Gene

[tperkins]

Any body use The Davy Knot or the Double Davy Knot?  https://vimeo.com/95275189

This was the first time I'd ever heard of it.