Ethical consideration

[TurbineBlade]

Let's say you are out fishing one day and someone walking by stops and asks you "Why do you have to torment the fish and then just let them go like that?" 

I have a very detailed answer for this kind of question, but I thought I'd post it since it is something you may be asked out there, especially if you fish in populated areas. 

And yes, a buddy was asked this exact question a couple of years ago by a jogger while fishing on the C & O canal. 

Gene

BTW -- Another reminder to get your 2016 fishing licenses.  That's the most important ethical concern there is in my opinion.  If you do it now, they'll all expire at an easy-to-remember time each year ;). 

[Bryan Lanier]

My response would be:

"Because I'm a saddist. I enjoy ripping the lips out fish. They'll tell their brother and sister fish, which will cause them no end of worry, become despondent and welcome an early death. I would waterboard them but that wouldn't work."

Bryan

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[Scott Stankus]

Because they're there? 

(Thank you, George. Mallory).

--Scott

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:11 PM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

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================================================

"There are 10 types of people in this world, those who know binary, and those who don't"

[Rob Snowhite]

I tell them it's easier to take the hook out of a fish than squirrel. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[ALarge]

Because my father told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman.

-ARRTI

[tatu...@gmail.com]

Winner...I'll have to remember that one.

[namfos]

I'm with Bryan. ;-) 

For joggers specifically, I would ask, "Why do you jog, pounding your knees into oblivion and NEVER smiling, in a vain pursuit of immortality and being able to wear the same clothing you did in college?"

I'll be purchasing licenses this weekend.

Mark

[namfos]

Alas, there is a distinction to be made between "fishermen" and "anglers."  But we needn't go into that here. ;-)

Mark

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 5:36:10 PM UTC-5, ALarge wrote:

[Dalton Terrell]

Several years ago John Bilotta was giving me a casting lesson in a park and a cross country team ran by yelling, "What are you fishing for?"--I responded back with a "What are you running from?"

As far as the original question, I don't have a good response and likely don't think you're going to change anyone's opinion on the matter, but hey that doesn't normally stop us from arguing in person or on the internet.

Dalton

[tperkins]

I run (not jog) and I fish. And I smile when I do both. (also my knees feel better when I run) but I am strange.

running vs. jogging is another whole can of worms. 

[Yambag Nelson]

Maybe they just wanted to know what you were hoping to catch?

[Scott Stankus]

Grass carp!

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[Jamie Carracher]

Oh man, the C&O is the worst place for this sort of thing. I've been lectured twice there. 

My reaction is simple: before I started fishing, I paid little attention to the health and vitality of my local waterways or the wildlife that call them home. Now I'm passionate and protective of those resources. 

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 2:11:37 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Joshua Delmonico]

Personally I think every interaction is an opportunity to educate people. As fishermen, we are major contributors to water conservation, habitat restoration and are often times one of the driving factors in there even being fish in the water we are fishing. Additionally I would respond that fly fishing is the least intrusive method of fishing and the injury to the fish is minimal with the barbs even being removed from the hooks (if they were there in the first place).  It is certainly better for the fish than killing it.

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[TurbineBlade]

Interesting thoughts.  I've put my own opinions on this kind of thing up here many times.  

I just happened to remember it while the other ethics topics popped up.  It's interesting to me to think about fly fishing ethics, knowing that people who do not fish (or who disapprove of fishing) don't understand why even the most "well-mannered" fly fishermen does it.  

Gene

On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 1:14:39 PM UTC-5, Joshua Delmonico wrote:

Personally I think every interaction is an opportunity to educate people. As fishermen, we are major contributors to water conservation, habitat restoration and are often times one of the driving factors in there even being fish in the water we are fishing. Additionally I would respond that fly fishing is the least intrusive method of fishing and the injury to the fish is minimal with the barbs even being removed from the hooks (if they were there in the first place).  It is certainly better for the fish than killing it.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:36 PM, ALarge <ala...@gmail.com> wrote:

Because my father told us about Christ's disciples being fishermen, and we were left to assume, as my brother and I did, that all first-class fishermen on the Sea of Galilee were fly fishermen and that John, the favorite, was a dry-fly fisherman.

-ARRTI

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 2:11:37 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

Let's say you are out fishing one day and someone walking by stops and asks you "Why do you have to torment the fish and then just let them go like that?" 

I have a very detailed answer for this kind of question, but I thought I'd post it since it is something you may be asked out there, especially if you fish in populated areas. 

And yes, a buddy was asked this exact question a couple of years ago by a jogger while fishing on the C & O canal. 

Gene

BTW -- Another reminder to get your 2016 fishing licenses.  That's the most important ethical concern there is in my opinion.  If you do it now, they'll all expire at an easy-to-remember time each year ;). 

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[Brad]

If you want academic treatise on angling ethics, Google my man Robert Arlinghaus. He is a professor in Germany where catch and release fishing is illegal based on ethical concerns.

My personal favorite response is shoot, shovel, shut-up

[TurbineBlade]

Brad -- I'm of the opinion that catch and release fishing is highly questionable in many, many places for various species and size classes.  The folks at DGIF indicated to me that while they originally wanted to mandate that all snakeheads be killed immediately, they ended up revising the regs to the (far wimpier) "illegal to possess alive" language, largely based upon the emotional responses of some in the angling community (take note, whacked-out fly fishermen reading this).  Now does that make sense?  Of course not, but as in many areas of life -- you just can't silence the totally delusional!  DGIF should have forced the issue and said "to hell" with the folks who were unwilling to kill something.  If they weren't willing to do it, they should lose their privilege.  

Then you have the fly fishing community....sigh. Most with drawers full of dead birds, cervids, etc. arguing about tossing fish (wth?)......sometimes after those same fish were stocked in this manner:

I bet you could not post a report showing someone cleaning a trout even on a popular stream where it is entirely legal without some whack-job on here lighting a torch. Even after the state fish and game program made the regulatory decision to permit it based upon more data than a fly fisherman will ever see.  Emotion always wins -- 

It's so painful to hear over and over.  I love fly fishing -- but the fly fishing brotherhood and their animal rights, junk science rules?  Not so much.  I prefer the informed approach, and I've worked with far too many fisheries biologists.  

Gene

[namfos]

When your reach the 5 decade mark, Thomas, (and if I make it that far) we'll revisit. LOL Dalton had a great question, too.

Mark

[Dave Stephenson]

Where do I get one of those!

[Dave Stephenson]

....and how many of the torch bearers would discuss their indignation over a plate of seafood shipped from half way around the world and procured by of one the most environmentally destructive industries around? Thank you Gene for putting the truth out there.

Dave

[Alex Large]

Watch: "catch and release" explained. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1514847448827610&id=1466979313614424

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016, 11:34 AM Dave Stephenson <dstephe...@gmail.com> wrote:

....and how many of the torch bearers would discuss their indignation over a plate of seafood shipped from half way around the world and procured by of one the most environmentally destructive industries around?  Thank you Gene for putting the truth out there.

Dave

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[namfos]

I love the C&O visitors who as "Are there fish in there?" or "What kind of fish are in there?" I usually think to myself, "Shee-it, they should get out more..."

Mark

[namfos]

Dave, see https://www.facebook.com/fishingporncom-105539746155917/info/?tab=page_info Supposedly their new webs site is supposed to be up by now.

Mark

[Joe Mathews]

Ignore

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 2:11:37 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Brad]

I suppose we are in agreement. This is a blood sport. We all kill fish. Anyone that thinks they don't is delusional. I have no problem killing and eating fish where legal.

I work on the management side of this business. I'm very aware of where our seafood comes from and what it takes to get to my plate. I rarely eat fish I don't catch (except for my sushi problem) and I'm coming back from a week in HI where I didn't even bring gear. I won't fish there. Period. There aren't any fish.

[TurbineBlade]

I doubt very seriously that all (or even many) sissy fly fishermen agree with this. They (the sissy fly fishermen) could often make a better case against fishing than the jogger -- 

In my opinion, if you aren't willing to report poaching you should remain equally silent if someone violates your sissy rules for "assisted care" fly fishing.  

BTW -- I'm reading Gierach at the moment and ran into the "use a lighter fly rod to give the fish a chance" idea many sissy fly fishermen talk about.  That's just another contradiction for the sport to throw on top of the pile.  Only a fly fisherman could go from telling someone to not use 8x tippet because it extends the fight, to saying "not to use too heavy of a rod on smaller fish to give them a chance".  Now I'm just a simple Mizzourah pit viper behaviorist, but ain't that odd coupling of words into the same sentence saying the same thing?   

Gene ("Don't call me a fly fisherman") TB

[Jamie Carracher]

I saw a guy at the Tidal Basin catch a fish and then boot it like a punter into the trees. I guess he was going to use it for bait later. Seemed to me he could of at least given it a good whack first rather than let it suffocate. I'm content with my approach, which is to not purposefully torture the things. I'm holding out hope that if aliens arrive on Earth, good karma will protect me from whatever those higher beings do on their spaceships.