周四和CAROL通了2小时电话 FW: 贴子发不上去， 发给你邮件吧

[车 东]

>From: "Wang Xinyang" <xinya...@vaillant.com.cn>
>To: <wande...@sina.com>
>CC: <sin...@hotmail.com>,'妮子' <nbh...@163.com>,"'chedong'"
<che...@hotmail.com>,<ljzha...@sina.com>
>Subject: 贴子发不上去， 发给你邮件吧
>Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:48:30 +0800
>
>
>
>周四和CAROL通了2小时电话， 这是我们商量的下一步措施。CAROL今天随一个旅行团
去
>了印度， 11月底回英国，所有关心
>
>白马雪山大众慈善学校的朋友们都请提建设性意见。
>
>
>
>原则:
>
>1.新建学校建筑要成为公产, 不是私产
>
>2.大众慈善小学可以无偿使用这些建筑, 只要它的目的是用于免费教育和慈善行为
>
>3.校长只有在接受公开帐目和接受相关人员监督的条件下才能得到帮助
>
>4.孩子们要受到很好的照顾
>
>
>
>现实:
>
>1.建校的合同是尼玛校长和建筑商之间的饿合同
>
>2.英国的通堆水社区基金会(CAROL为创建人和资金管理人)只有对学校的承诺(有条件
>的, 例如建筑要求和使用目的等).
>
>3.目前56万的建筑合同(且不管它是否合理)已付22.5万(2005年4月CAROL和JANE一起支

>付13万, 10月在张浩和李逸航的帮助下支付19.5万;余下第三笔16.2万计划在彻底完工

>后, 第四笔在指定人员验收签字后支付.
>
>4.目前由于部分建筑和设施, 例如厕所\盥洗室\供暖\供电和热水等设施未建, CAROL
已
>暂时终止付款, 待学校方有进仪步进展再付.
>
>
>
>所以以下是我和CAROL起草的建议: （见我给她的邮件和她的回复）
>
>
>
>
>
>发件人: Wang Xinyang [mailto:xinya...@vaillant.com.cn]
>发送时间: 2005年11月4日 22:24
>收件人: 'Carol Turner'
>主题: Proposal of continueing process
>
>
>
>Dear Carol,
>
>
>
>After talking to Lao Xie (the tourist guide in Lijiang) and Zhang Hao,
here
>are the proposal I can think of:
>
>
>
>1. To define a public ownership of the school building, for example
>
>a. Educational Committee of Deqin or Zhong Dian Government (Deqin
>reports to Zhong Dian)
>
>b. Civil Warefell Bureau of Deqin or Zhong Dian Government (Deqin
>reports to Zhong Dian)
>
>c. Local Red Cross or Charity Society
>
>
>
>2. To sign an official donation agreement that the school building
will
>be property of public with following conditions:
>
>a. The Tongdashun community school can use this building free of
>charge
>
>b. The school should keep a system of open book for all
>incoming/outgoing cash and goods
>
>c. The school should have all the time at least 2 volunteer
teachers,
>one keeps the book and one controls the cash/goods flow
>
>d. There should be an annual budgeting/expenses system and a monthly
>review
>
>e. All above info has to be published in the website monthly and a
copy
>has to be send to Carol (representing donation fund) and
>
>relative government body (representing the owner of the property).
>
>
>
>3. The school principal will get support based on he/she agrees with
>all above condition. And in additional he/she has to provide:
>
>a. Time schedule of finish with the rest facility of the building:
>toilet, washroom, warm water supply, electricity supply, etc.
>
>b. A guarantee o min. 5 hours/day for the children to be in the
>classroom for education, and a max. 10 hours/week working in the field.
>
>c. Monthly and annual budget for 2006: food and clothes for
children,
>teaching materials and facilities, HR cost, telecommunication cost,
>
> transportation cost, power and other misc. etc.
>
>d. Regular volunteer shift and replacement plan
>
>
>
>4. In this way, Nyima has to call back the volunteer teachers, or get
>new teachers if he would like to continue to be the head and get the rest
of
>the
>
>payment to the contractor.
>
>
>
>5. I will call him send him the following message:
>
>a. We can forget all the un-happiness and arguments before and start
>from today a new working method.
>
>b. He has to prove he is changing his behavior and put the children
in
>the priority.
>
>c. He will lose all the help and get a bad image in front of his
>community, and even in front of his supervisor (he is a government
employee
>
>as the head and secretary of the party in the village)
>
>d. Any future payment from the donation needs approval and signature
>from one of the volunteer teachers.
>
>e. If he does not co-operate, the children will be moved to other
>schools, and even worth he will be replaced by the government.
>
>
>
>6. Since the volunteer teachers are in shift of average 6 month,
>corruption can be avoided.
>
>
>
>Unfortunately Lao Xie in Lijiang is not able to communicate in English on
>the phone. But he will take the job to contact the local government. And
>
>Zhao Hao has the receipt of the second payment, he will fax to copy to me.
>Zhang Hao also agrees that if I am able to make Nyima to call him back,
>
> he will return to work in the school.
>
>
>
>When I am back in Beijing, I will prepare an action list and distribute
the
>jobs with a time schedule and send it to you. If you agree, I can put the
>action
>
>list in the website and get people working for it. And if necessary, I
can
>make a trip in Dec. to be there for the final check.
>
>
>
>What to you think?
>
>
>
>With love,
>
>Xinyang
>
>
>
>和老谢(丽江的导游)及张浩通过电话, 这是我能想到的建议:
>
>1. 确定未来这所建筑的所有权归属单位, 例如
>
>a) 德钦或中甸政府(迪庆州)的教委
>
>b) 德钦或中甸政府(迪庆州)的民政部
>
>c) 当地的红十字会和慈善机构
>
>2. 和确定的机构签署一个正式捐赠协议, 将学校建筑的归属权交给公众, 并设

>立以下条件:
>
>a) 通堆水社区学校可以无偿使用这个建筑
>
>b) 前提是学校要建立公开的记帐制度, 包括进出现金和实物.
>
>c) 学校在任何时候必须有2名以上的志愿者教师, 一名负责记帐, 一名控制现

>金和实物进出.
>
>d) 每月要有财务报告, 每年一次帐目审计
>
>e) 所有信息每月在往站上向公众公示, 并发一份副本给CAROL(代表捐赠者)和

>相关的政府机构(代表建筑所有权归属者)
>
>3. 校长只有在同意并签署以上所有条件的状况下可以得到帮助, 同时他/她必须提

>交：
>
>a) 完成学校设施(厕所\盥洗室\热水和电力等)的时间表
>
>b) 保证学生每天不少于5小时的课堂学习时间和每周不超过10小时的劳动时间。
>
>c) 2006年年度和每月的财务预算, 包括孩子们的食物、衣物、教学材料和设备、
人
>员费用、电信费用、交通费用、水电等杂费等等。
>
>d) 志愿者工作和替换计划
>
>4. 这样， 尼玛得把张浩或其他志愿者请回来， 或者请新的志愿者， 如果他想继

>续当校长并得到支付建筑商的余款.
>
>5. 我会把这样的口信带给尼玛：
>
>a) 我们会忘掉过去所有的不愉快， 从今天开始新的工作方式。
>
>b) 他必须证明他改变自己的行为， 把孩子们的利益放在第一位。
>
>c) 如果不合作或没有改进， 他会失去所有的帮助， 并且在村里和领导面前丢
尽
>脸面。（他是村干部， 村副支书）
>
>d) 今后任何一笔捐款支出都要有志愿者老师的批准和签字。
>
>e) 如果不合作， 孩子们将渐渐被转到其他学校，对他更糟的是也许他会被撤公

>职。
>
>f) 由于志愿者会定期（平均6个月）替换， 避免了帐目不清。
>
>
>
>可惜的是老谢无法和你在电话里直接交流。但是他会承担与当地政府沟通的工作。同
时
>张浩受里也有第二次付款的收据， 他会把它传真给我。
>
>如果尼玛校长请他会去，张浩也同意回去工作。
>
>
>
>等我回北京，我将把不同的分工编写成工作表和时间进程表发给你， 如果你同意，
我
>将把工作表贴在网上征集志愿者。 如果需要， 我可以在12月去那里
>
>做最后的验收。
>
>
>
>以下2个邮件是CAROL 在11月3日和5日发来的， 我实在没有时间翻译， 大家自己看
>吧。
>
>
>
>发件人: Carol Turner [mailto:carol...@tiscali.co.uk]
>发送时间: 2005年11月5日 7:51
>收件人: Wang Xinyang
>主题: Re: Proposal of continueing process
>
>
>
>Xinyang, you are quite brilliant! I cannot think how you have found time
to
>work it all out and I think everything you have suggested is very good
>indeed.
>
>
>
>The only thing which worries me is that lack of heating, washing
facilities
>and toilets at the school. Can you say to Niyma that unless they are
built
>- and built properly, the school is not finished. He had better sort it
out
>and make a good job of it. 我最担心的是没有暖气和盥洗设施。你能否告诉尼玛，

>除非他把这些设施建完， 学校就没有完工。 他最好赶紧想办法好好干完。
>
>
>
>I leave in just a few hours, still not feeling very well, but I am sure I
>will be alright.
>
>
>
>With a very big hug from me,
>
>Carol
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>发件人: Carol Turner [mailto:carol...@tiscali.co.uk]
>发送时间: 2005年11月3日 3:40
>收件人: Wang Xinyang
>主题: Re: Tondashun school
>
>
>
>Dear Xinyang,
>
>
>
>It's good to hear from you. Well, I suppose I am not at all surprised
that
>the young volunteer teachers published their report on Niyma. I had a
look
>at some backpacker websites but couldn't see anything - which website was
it
>on? I'd be quite interested to see what they said.
>
>
>
>They came up to the school with me (as protection!) on 10 October when I
was
>travelling past with a group en route for Lhasa. We had a meeting with
>Niyma and the contractor and I discovered that yet again Niyma had
>undermined the agreement I made with the contractor that he should build
the
>washrooms and toilets instead of the stupa he had promised to donate to
the
>school. When I got there I was told that Niyma had got some local people
to
>build some sort of toilets and washrooms which will not, of course, be of
>anything like the standard the contractor would have built them.
>
>
>
>Quite honestly, when I saw Niyma, who was doing his usual bowing and
>wringing his hands saying he needed more money, I just wanted to slap him
>hard on the face!!
>
>
>
>Anyway I told him that once I have paid for the buildings, I am
withdrawing
>my sponsorship of the school as I have been feeding his little pocket now
>for 5 years! (I didn't say that bit, but would have liked to!)
>
>
>
>I tried to make peace between the volunteer teachers and Niyma, but it was
>hopeless. The teachers went back to the school the next day to collect
all
>their things, to find that all their possessions had disappeared. They
were
>very angry. Fortunately there is still one really good volunteer teacher
at
>the school who is teaching Chinese, although he is a young doctor. The
>children love him and he manages to stay out of all the politics. He says
>he plans to continue working at the school until next July, which is
really
>wonderful of him.
>
>
>
>My one remaining problem is that I need to get someone to confirm that the
>contractor has built according to the translated plans he was given by
>Maggie. I rang her and asked if she would be prepared to go up to the
>school with the contractor and the Quality Controller and if all was
agreed,
>I would then pay the rest of the money to the contract. But she has not
>answered! I do not feel that I can just hand over such a very large
amount
>of money, most of which the contractor did not earn, until this has been
>done.
>
>
>
>It has been one huge mess and what makes me so mad is to think of Niyma's
>misuse of the great generosity of so many people who were prepared to give
>and get involved.
>
>
>
>The two volunteer teachers said they had been talking to an important monk
>in Zhongdian to get Niyma replaced. Unfortunately the monks belong to the
>Dondruplin monastery down the road and the rimpoche is as dishonest as
>Niyma. Therefore I am not sure if a monk from Zhongdian can really help.
>
>
>
>They said that I should help with this, but I really do not feel that I
>should do this. My involvement has been from a great distance and only
with
>sponsoring the school, not concerning myself with the staff. I have no
>experience of the running of the school, nor do I have any first-hand
proof
>of Niyma's dishonesty, although I believe everything the student teachers
>told me. I do certainly think that Niyma should be kicked out, but think
>this has to be an issue to be sorted out locally. As you said some time
>ago, what is worrying is who actually has ownership of the buildings!
>
>
>
>As regards an electricity supply, it seems that the new school has one! I
>am going to email you some photos and you will see lights in the classroom
>ceiling.
>
>
>
>Now that I have no contact at the school, there is just nothing more I can
>do. I just want to pay off the contractor, however much he is being
>overpaid, and walk away from the whole situation.
>
>
>
>Instead I now have to find money for boarding accommodation for the
nomad's
>school out at Genye, SW of Litang. I had an agreement with the local
>government that I would build the classrooms and they would build the
>dormitories, but when I visited the school in August there were no
boarding
>children because there was nowhere for them to sleep! The government said
>they had run out of money! However I have organised building a kitchen,
>dining room, washrooms, furniture for dormitories (in rooms which were
being
>used by government mining officials) and staffing for the children. I
hope
>it will all be ready by March when the new term starts. The headmaster is
>only 24 years old, but he seems a good man and the local government
>officials agreed to help with the project.
>
>
>
>It is expensive for you to talk to me, so I will ring you - I shall first
>try tomorrow (Thursday evening) and if I cannot get you then, I will try
>again on Friday evening.
>
>
>
>I'm sorry I took so long to respond, but I have been quite ill as I came
>back with a kidney infection and had to go into hospital. I am hoping I
>shall be alright to travel to India on Saturday in which case I shall be
>away until the end of November. I think I am just exhausted - it's been a
>long year with all these upsets and moving house and taking groups.....
>
>
>
>Hoping to speak to you before I leave,
>
>
>
>Very best wishes, Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[ellen]

心阳及各位：

 

非常钦佩大家的爱心和努力。我虽对本事件的细节不太了解，但从一般的法律考虑，我愿为本事件的圆满解决，提供几点法律上的建议，供心阳和大家参考。

 

1. 关于受赠人的选择，从中国行政隶属的相关性上，受赠对象应为政府的民政部门。当地教育局

以及当地红十字会等机构都不太适合做受赠人。我认为心阳和张好或中甸的朋友应首先联系所辖

县或州的主管民政的副县长争取当地政府的支持。

 

2。中国房地产的登记原则是地上物随土地走。英国朋友捐赠的是地上的建筑物，土地是谁的？是乡里的还是某个人的，这对地上物的产权的取得和转移会带来麻烦。所以，要搞清，如土地是个人的应请政府把土地处理好。

 

3。捐赠协议中应加入捐赠人可对本项目的建筑、采购等进行审计的条款。

 

Ellen

车 东 <che...@hotmail.com> wrote:

---

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Judie Q]

对于Ellen的第一个建议。我认识香格里拉县的赵副县长及她的先生彭总（后者是一位
摄影爱好者，我们同属一位国内著名摄影家的学生），2004年也去过他们家里住。这位
赵副县长是管理文教的，我相信她十分愿意帮助我们。


Regards,
Judie

>From: ellen <elle...@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: tibetan...@googlegroups.com
>To: xinya...@vaillant.com.cn, tibetan...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: 周四和CAROL通了2小时电话 FW: 贴子发不上去， 发给你邮件吧--法律
上的考虑
>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 19:49:10 -0800 (PST)
>
>心阳及各位：
>
>非常钦佩大家的爱心和努力。我虽对本事件的细节不太了解，但从一般的法律考虑，
我愿为本事件的圆满解决，提供几点法律上的建议，供心阳和大家参考。
>
>1. 关于受赠人的选择，从中国行政隶属的相关性上，受赠对象应为政府的民政部门。
当地教育局
>以及当地红十字会等机构都不太适合做受赠人。我认为心阳和张好或中甸的朋友应首
先联系所辖
>县或州的主管民政的副县长争取当地政府的支持。
>
>2。中国房地产的登记原则是地上物随土地走。英国朋友捐赠的是地上的建筑物，土地
是谁的？是乡里的还是某个人的，这对地上物的产权的取得和转移会带来麻烦。所以，
要搞清，如土地是个人的应请政府把土地处理好。
>
>3。捐赠协议中应加入捐赠人可对本项目的建筑、采购等进行审计的条款。
>
>Ellen
>

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