timzeone shifting
Chönyi
It seems there are some things to discuss about the timezone, so we
should certainly do it in a new thread to have something more searchable
in the archives.
The mean daybreak used to compute the calendar in Lhassa in 5am UTC+8,
but what is the mean daybreak used by Men-Tsee Khang? is it 5am UTC+5.5?
If so the calendar in Lhassa might have some small differences with the
calendar in Dharamsala, right? Is it the case? If not, do they consider
that lunar events follow solar events and shift between timezones? How
do they handle this?
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Kees de Nobel
calculations did not have time zone.
Kees
Op 2011-06-10 9:47, Ch�nyi schreef:
Chönyi
> I believe they do not calculate with a timezone at all as the original
> calculations did not have time zone.
This means that Michael's view is quite far from the tibetan's view, but
it could be a first start for them to make some experiments with the
timezones and their traditional computations, to feel that some
differences appear and it may make them ask some questions...
In fact I'm wondering what the Tibetan believe about all this: do
Tibetan astrologers see Earth as a sphere with the sun not appearing at
the same time in India and in Europe? Or do they believe it's flat
around Mt Meru? If they see it as a sphere, do they think that lunar
events just follow solar events, or do they just reject the question as
heretic?
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Edward Henning
seen. The Dharmsala calendar is identical to Lhasa... Phugpa is
Phugpa, is... Everywhere...
Edward.
On 10 June 2011 08:52, Kees de Nobel <no...@telenet.be> wrote:
> I believe they do not calculate with a timezone at all as the original
> calculations did not have time zone.
>
> Kees
>
> Op 2011-06-10 9:47, Chönyi schreef:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> It seems there are some things to discuss about the timezone, so we should
>> certainly do it in a new thread to have something more searchable in the
>> archives.
>>
>> The mean daybreak used to compute the calendar in Lhassa in 5am UTC+8, but
>> what is the mean daybreak used by Men-Tsee Khang? is it 5am UTC+5.5? If so
>> the calendar in Lhassa might have some small differences with the calendar
>> in Dharamsala, right? Is it the case? If not, do they consider that lunar
>> events follow solar events and shift between timezones? How do they handle
>> this?
>>
>> Thank you,
>
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>
Michael Erlewine
some of these other questions out later, down the line.
Edward:
As for calendar reform, could you or someone send me a list of concepts that
you would like the high lamas to consider. I may be able to have a friend
present them to H.H. Karmapa to look at them if he has not already been made
aware of such things. Let me see the concepts and I will illustrate them,
etc. and that might help.
Michael
Chönyi
> I suggest for now we put the pieces together and make them flexible and work
> some of these other questions out later, down the line.
Sure, but I think the point of Edward is that if you add the possibility
to change the timezone, you totally change the calendar, and you're far
from the traditional calculations. If you allow yourself not to take the
exact traditional calculations, it's certainly better to simply adopt
modern calculations, they will be far more accurate... But this doesn't
mean that we cannot add an option of course, though it may not be the
priority.
> As for calendar reform, could you or someone send me a list of concepts that
> you would like the high lamas to consider. I may be able to have a friend
> present them to H.H. Karmapa to look at them if he has not already been made
> aware of such things. Let me see the concepts and I will illustrate them,
> etc. and that might help.
Maybe the best thing would be to make a tibetan-friendly presentation of
http://kalacakra.org/calendar/downcal.htm and
http://kalacakra.org/calendar/os_cal.htm. By tibetan-friendly I mean
explaining some basic astronomy, the concept of an ellipse (do Tibetans
actually do some mathematics?), the different occidental measures, the
exact word of the Tantra, etc. The reasons for a calendar change are
quite obvious to those who read Edward's book, but they certainly need a
lot of explanations for tibetans, and it will certainly be a long
documentation work before we reach something that looks like a proposal
that we could translate into Tibetan.
This work could be started on the wiki for instance. I'll start a new
page on it, with a basic structure.
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Edward Henning
1. The Tibetan calculations purport to produce an accurate picture of
the solar, lunar and planetary positions. They do not do this, and
only a move to modern astronomy can correct this.
2. The traditional calculation methods also have to go. I did a test a
couple of years ago, and fed traditional calculations with very
accurate data. Even so, the great majority of duplicated and omitted
lunar dates are wrong. See the very bottom of this page:
www.kalacakra.org/calendar/os_cal.htm
3. Also, the interpretation of the Indian months has always been wrong
by most Tibetan calendar makers. This was criticised right back at the
beginning, but ignored (see page 149 in my book). This needs to be
corrected. Zhonnu Pal got this right...
4. OK, four then. In continuing to teach traditional methods, the
Tibetans would be best concentrating on the calendar section of the
tantra and Vimalaprabha. It can easily be shown how this is far more
compatible with a modern understanding, or modern astronomy, than the
later Tibetan contrived systems...
5. O, not another. The intercalary month - should it have the same
name, number as the preceeding or following month? This could do with
a fresh look. I'll send this before I think of something else...
Edward.
Michael Erlewine
Thanks Edward. I was aware of most of this from your sites and book.
I certainly want to work with this group on the project. After all, we have
so much in common.
At the same time, my main goal would be calendar reform, which is really a
sidebar issue here, since we are not a radical group, but want to support
the existing needs and traditions.
That being said, I am interested in working with Edward and anyone else to
gradually prepare a document with proper illustrations, etc. and have it
presented to H.H. the Karmapa for his review. I am fairly certain that I can
have it presented by someone who can translate it from English to Tibetan,
although H.H. is learning more English all the time.
Anyone interested in working on this as a side-project, not to interfere
with the one?
Michael
Michael Erlewine
twice.
Thanks Edward.
Most of what you wrote I have gathered from your sites and book.
I am happy to work with this group because we share so much. And I want to
support the established needs of the monks, monasteries, etc., without
trying to change things. This is not a radical group.
At the same time, I am very interested in calendar reform and this can be a
sidebar issue here, but one I would like to work on. Perhaps some of you
would like to work with me on preparing a document to present to H.H. the
Karmapa. It can be in English because I can find someone competent to
translate it and H.H. is learning more English all the time.
Are there any of you who would like to work on this with me. This would be a
sideline project and not overshadow our other work.
Michael
ogyen tenzang
ogyen tenzang
Edward Henning
between the time of solstice in Tibet and India. That time difference
is actually zero, so that value should go, in my opinion. The
Kalacakra is clearly tropical, and not sidereal - by the way, I think
those terms are more useful, as they are in general use. To introduce
a third zodiac - not tropical and not the generally accpeted sidereal,
would to my mind be confusing, and has no basis in any of the
literature. This is why I told Tsenam that I felt his calendar had got
it "half right". That was when he offered to beat me over the head
with a stick...!
Edward.
Edward Henning
modern astronomy.>>>
They will need at least a year or two of geometry and trigonometry. I
recommended this at CIHTS, but I am not sure anybody there is capable
of teaching. They misunderstood me when I first suggested this four
years ago, and got somebody in to give a crash course on calculus!
But, crash courses are not likely to have a permanent benefit, I
think. It needs time to sink in...
Edward.
ogyen tenzang
ogyen tenzang
Chönyi
> those from varanasi all have minimum class VIII level.
Hmmm... maybe I'm not the only one non-familiar with tibetan classes...
what would be the equivalent in occidental school system? What is the
level in mathematics?
Also for a course on basic astronomy, maybe editing something on
http://en.wikibooks.org/ and translate it into tibetan (still on
wikibooks) would be good! Maybe all the work is almost done already and
we just have to paste some pieces together... This would make it
accessible to every tibetan, which is a good thing. What do you think?
About the zodiac, internally we should work in tropical zodiac, but a
user interface could easily translate it into sidereal zodiac, this is
really not a problem.
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Kim
T h i s i s a v e r y i m p o r t a n t q u e s t i o n i
n d e e d !
> > F o r t h i s p u r p o s e I w o u l d t h i n k
i t ' s b e t t e r t o k e e p t h e o l d
s y s t e m o f c a l c u l a t i o n s a l i v e . ( T h e
q u e s t i o n b e i n g , a r e t h o s e c a l c u l a t i
o n s
d e s i g n e d t o e x p l a i n i n n e r h a p p e n i n
g ? o r d o t h e s e m a s t e r s a d a p t e d t h e i
r
e x p l a n a t i o n s o f t h e s e i n n e r h a p p e n i
n g s t o t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s ? ) < <
B e e n p o n d e r i n g t h a t q u e s t i o n f o r a
l o n g t i m e , a n d i t n e e d s a t t e n t i o
n , a n d a g r e e t h e y s h o u l d n ' t b e t o s s
e d o u t c o m p l e t e l y j u s t y e t . [ T h o i
t d o e s n ' t s e e m a n y o n e w a n t s t o a n y w
a y . ]
j u s t a f e w p r e l i m i n a r y t h o u g h t s
a . i t s e e m s t h a t t h e w h o l e u n d e r s t
a n d i n g o f ' t i m e ' c h a n g e s w h e n w e m o
v e t o t h e i n t e r n a l t h u s w e n e e d t o
u n d e r s t a n d m o r e a b o u t ' i n n e r t i m e '
b e f o r e c r u d e l y a n d s i m p l y a l i g n i n g
i t t o ' o u t e r t i m e ' .
b . i n t h e i n n e r t h e r e i s a n o t h e r c
y c l e a l s o t a k i n g p l a c e i n t h e r e v e r
s e t o g e s t a t i o n a n d b i r t h l i f e a n d
d e a t h - t h e g r o w t h a n d d e c a y o f t h
e c h a n n e l s d u r i n g t h e l i f e s p a n f o
r e x a m p l e , i . e . t h e i n d i v i d u a l d e c a
y s a t a d i f f e r e n t r a t e t o t h e c o s m o
s w h i c h i m p l i e s t h a t p r e c e s s i o n i s
n o t a m a t t e r o f c o n c e r n f o r t h e i n n
e r , t h e i n n e r i s a b e i n g o f m u c h m o
r e l i m i t e d d u r a t i o n , t h u s n o t h i n g o
n t h e i n n e r i t d o e s n ' t n e e d c a l c u l a
t i o n .
c . i n t h e i n n e r , t i m e b e c o m e s m o r
e ' i n t e r m i x e d ' w i t h d e p e n d e n t a r i s i
n g v i a t h e m e d i u m o f t h e ' m i n d ' - n
o t j u s t t h e o u t e r c y c l e s o f c a l c u l a
t e d d e p e n d e n t a r i s i n g , b u t t h e a c t u
a l ' p r o c e s s ' t h a t i s o c c u r i n g a t e v
e r y m o m e n t o f c o n s c i o u s n e s s , s o w e
a r e t a l k i n g i n t h a t c a s e o f a k i n d
o f f e e d b a c k l o o p w i t h t h e o u t e r r a t
h e r t h a n a c a u s e a n d e f f e c t r e l a t i o
n s h i p . F e e d b a c k l o o p s c a u s e u n u s u a
l , n o n g e o m e t r i c a l p a t t e r n s t o e m e r
g e .
d . s t r a n g e t h i n g s h a p p e n i f o n e u s
e s o n l y a t r o p i c a l s y s t e m o r e v e n
a s i d e r e a l s y s t e m w i t h t h e i n n e r K a
l a c a k r a , a s t a u g h t b y D a g t h o n - l a , a
n d w h e n e x a m i n e d i n s o m e d e t a i l r e a
l l y d o s e e m t o r e q u i r e s o m e t h i n g m u
c h m o r e ' s t a b l e ' , f o r e x a m p l e t o r e
t a i n t h e r e l a t i o n s h i p b e t w e e n t h e r
g y u s k a r c a k r a a n d t h e z o d i a c c a k r
a , t h o a d m i t t e d l y n o t i n c o n f o r m i t
y t o t h e o u t e r a s c l e a r l y o b s e r v e d
i n t h e o u t e r c o s m o s .
e . C a n n o t o f f e r a n y d e f i n i t i v e a n s w
e r s y e t , t h u s I t h i n k i t i s v e r y w i
s e t o k e e p t h e o l d c a l c s a l i v e u n t i
l t h e s e s o r t s o f q u e s t i o n s h a v e s a t
i s f a c t o r y a n d r e l i a b l e a n s w e r s . T h
o a v e r y s p e c u l a t i v e i n c l i n a t i o n i n
c l i n e s m e t o t h i n k t h a t t h o s e m a s t e
r s a r e j o i n e d t o t h e i n n e r h a p p e n i n
g s b y t h e i r o w n p a r t i c u l a r r e a l i s a t
i o n , a n d h a v e a d a p t e d t h e c a l c u l a t i
o n s t o a c c o r d w i t h t h e i r i n n e r e x p e
r i e n c e , r a t h e r t h a n t h e o t h e r w a y r
o u n d . M a y b e t h e t w o h a v e a l s o s o m e
h o w g o t m i x e d u p i n v a r i o u s w a y s .
f . i t c o u l d b e a l o n g t i m e b e f o r e w
e g e t a d e e p e r c o m p r e h e n s i o n o f t h
e i n t e r n a l . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
b t w - w h a t i s t h a t t e x t b y P a t r u l R
i n p o c h e ?
K i m
>
>
>
> > Michael - this can be boiled down to three things.
>
> > 1. The Tibetan calculations purport to produce an accurate picture of
> > the solar, lunar and planetary positions. They do not do this, and
> > only a move to modern astronomy can correct this.
>
> > 2. The traditional calculation methods also have to go. I did a test a
> > couple of years ago, and fed traditional calculations with very
> > accurate data. Even so, the great majority of duplicated and omitted
> > lunar dates are wrong. See the very bottom of this page:
>
> >www.kalacakra.org/calendar/os_cal.htm
>
> > 3. Also, the interpretation of the Indian months has always been wrong
> > by most Tibetan calendar makers. This was criticised right back at the
> > beginning, but ignored (see page 149 in my book). This needs to be
> > corrected. Zhonnu Pal got this right...
>
> > 4. OK, four then. In continuing to teach traditional methods, the
> > Tibetans would be best concentrating on the calendar section of the
> > tantra and Vimalaprabha. It can easily be shown how this is far more
> > compatible with a modern understanding, or modern astronomy, than the
> > later Tibetan contrived systems...
>
> > 5. O, not another. The intercalary month - should it have the same
> > name, number as the preceeding or following month? This could do with
> > a fresh look. I'll send this before I think of something else...
>
> > Edward.
>
ogyen
This is a very important question indeed!
system of calculations alive. (The question being, are those calculati
ons designed to explain inner happening? or do these masters adapted
their
pondering that question for a
long time, and it needs attention, and agree they shouldn't be tossed
out completely just yet. [Tho it doesn't seem anyone wants to anyway.]
just a few preliminary thoughts
a. it seems that the whole understanding of 'time' changes when we
move to the internal thus we need to understand more about 'inner
time' before crudely and simply aligning it to 'outer time'.
b. in the inner there is another cycle also taking place in the
reverse to gestation and birth life and
death - the growth and decay of the channels during the life span for
example, i.e. the individual decays at a different rate to the cosmos
which implies that precession is not a matter of concern for the
inner, the inner is a being of much more limited duration, thus
nothing on the inner it doesn't need calculation.
c. in the inner, time becomes more 'intermixed' with dependent arising
via the medium of the 'mind' - not just the outer cycles of calculated
dependent arising, but the actual 'process' that is occuring at every
moment of consciousness, so we are talking in that case of a kind of
feedback loop with the outer rather than a cause and effect
relationship. Feedback loops cause unusual, non geometrical patterns
to emerge.
d. strange things happen if one uses only a tropical system or even a
sidereal system with the inner Kalacakra, as taught by Dagthon-la, and
when examined in some detail really do seem to require something much
more 'stable', for example to retain the relationship between the rgyu
skar cakra and the zodiac cakra, tho admittedly not in conformity to
the outer as clearly observed in the outer cosmos.
e. Cannot offer any definitive answers yet, thus I think it is very
wise to keep the old calcs alive until these sorts of questions have
satisfactory and reliable answers. Tho a very speculative inclination
inclines me to think that those masters are joined to the inner
happenings by their own particular realisation, and have adapted the
calculations to accord with their inner experience, rather than the
other way round. Maybe the two have also some how got mixed up in
various ways.
f. it could be a long time before we get a deeper comprehension of the
internal...............
btw - what is that text by Patrul Rinpoche?
Kim
Edward Henning
simply derived by trigonometric analysis of extremely basic epicycles
- and inner time is quite misleading. There has been a lot of creative
mathematics going on. It appears to me that the relationship between
these step values and inner processes is quite artificial. The
Kalacakra writers bent over backwards to link everything together
symbolically, outer, inner and other, but that does not mean that
there is anything real or useful in linking the step values with inner
processes. Taktshang Lotsawa has written a lot on this, and although I
love his writing, what he writes on this seems almost silly.
Just as the 800 and 600 years mentioned in the Sambhala chronology are
symbolic and mythological, rather than literal, the Tibetans took them
literally and screwed up their chronologies as a consequence. At least
we know that the Indian Kalacakra masters did not make the same
mistake. I suspect that they would also not have taken the inner
associations of the step values literally, either. After all, these
clearly came from other traditions, and they were not in possession of
the original physical and mathematical models on which they were
based. A great pity, but an unavoidable fact...
Edward.
ogyen tenzang
Tenzang
This is a very important question indeed!
>> For this purpose I would think it's better to keep the old system of calculations alive. (The question being, are those calculations designed to explain inner happening? or do these masters adapted their explanations of these inner happenings to the calculations?) <<
Been pondering that question for along time, and it needs attention, and agree they shouldn't be tossed out completely just yet. [Tho it doesn't seem anyone wants to anyway.] just a few preliminary thoughts
a. it seems that the whole understanding of 'time' changes when we move to the internal thus we need to understand more about 'inner time' before crudely and simply aligning it to 'outer time'.
b. in the inner there is another cycle also taking place in the reverse to gestation and birth life and death - the growth and decay of the channels during the life span for example, i.e. the individual decays at a different rate to the cosmos which implies that precession is not a matter of concern for the inner, the inner is a being of much more limited duration, thus nothing on the inner it doesn't need calculation.
c. in the inner, time becomes more 'intermixed' with dependent arising via the medium of the 'mind' - not just the outer cycles of calculated dependent arising, but the actual 'process' that is occuring at every moment of consciousness, so we are talking in that case of a kind of feedback loop with the outer rather than a cause and effect relationship. Feedback loops cause unusual, non geometrical patterns to emerge.
d. strange things happen if one uses only a tropical system or even a sidereal system with the inner Kalacakra, as taught by Dagthon-la, and when examined in some detail really do seem to require something much more 'stable', for example to retain the relationship between the rgyu skar cakra and the zodiac cakra, tho admittedly not in conformity to the outer as clearly observed in the outer cosmos.
e. Cannot offer any definitive answers yet, thus I think it is very wise to keep the old calcs alive until these sorts of questions have satisfactory and reliable answers. Tho a very speculative inclination inclines me to think that those masters are joined to the inner happenings by their own particular realisation, and have adapted the calculations to accord with their inner experience, rather than the other way round. Maybe the two have also some how got mixed up in various ways.
f. it could be a long time before we get a deeper comprehension of the internal...............
btw - what is that text by Patrul Rinpoche?
Kim
ogyen tenzang
Chönyi
As I have understood the Phugpa calculations (well, taken Edward's code
would be more accurate), I'd like to come back on the topic of timezeone
shifting:
Michael, I think you said you had an implementation doing this, how does
it insert in the traditional calculations? What about applying the
timezone correction to the true weekday corresponding to a lunar day,
would that be ok? I know it's anti-traditional, but I don't think there
is anything wrong to talk about this...
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Michael Erlewine
As you folks are being careful to do, it may be best to separate traditional
from modern traditions.
As for myself, as an astrologer of almost fifty years practice, I find that
the heavenly motions and the earthly activities are the same dance, in
perfect synchronicity. Given that bias, I tend to want to coordinate things
like the moment of an eclipse or a New Moon exactly. My dharma teachers have
made it clear to me that these alignments are moments that benefit us
through observation of our mind stream, so to me it is important to consider
time zones so that the moment of a New Moon Eclipse (like we just had) is
coordinated so that all practitioners know when that moment takes place. To
do that, time zones enter the equation. But, as they say, "that's just me."
Michael Erlewine
Dear All,
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
--
Kees de Nobel
Asking Michael if he had the calculations for this I believe you did not
look into all the details of the Tibetan Horoscope program I have sent
to you.
The Tibetan Horoscope program I have sent to you I include the
calculations for new moon and when the next moon days start after a
shift of 12� and the calculations for missing and double moon-days and
depending on the country and place selection the calculations use
longitude, latitude, temperature, height of observer and air pressure.
I suggest to you start the program, select e.g. Country USA, Place
Cambridge Massachusetts. You will see that the time zone is changed and
also the longitude and latitude. Now click Other followed by Sun/moon
times and you will see a calendar with sunrise, sunset, Next moon-day
start, next moon-day start when there are two at the same day and
finally the moon-day.
The moon-day starts with 1 when the new moon is before 05:00 otherwise
there will be a zero at the top row.
Also by the moon-days you will see that there are missing and double days.
But remember these calculations are only for the selected location.
If you select Tibet Lhasa you expect the missing and double days are
the same as in the Tibetan calendar but this is not true due to errors
in the way the Tibetan calendar is calculated.
Kees
Op 2011-07-07 9:13, Ch�nyi schreef:
Michael Erlewine
are in the previous email. I am interested in dharma practice first,
astrology second. As my teacher said to me very plainly: "Michael, astrology
is one of the limbs of the yoga, not the root. Dharma practice is the root."
Astrology is a relative truth, a way to get from here to there on our dharma
path, but not an absolute truth.... like knowing the true nature of the
mind. Knowing the true nature of the mind is all that interests me and, as I
mentioned, my interests are in exact times and zones.
I support all traditional research in Tibetan astrology, but don't use much
of it in my personal life. Astrology is not only in the past, but also right
now. We must become the book. That is my approach, respectfully tendered.
Thanks,
Michael Erlewine
Director Matrix Software
Http://www.AstrologySoftware.com
Phone/Fax: 231 796-6532
Email: Mic...@Erlewine.net
Current Projects: Http://www.StarTypes.com
Blogs: http://www.facebook.com/MichaelErlewine
Photography: http://macrostop.com/
Free Astrology: http://www.astrologyland.com/
Free Books: http://www.astrologysoftware.com/books/
Apps From Mobile Devices: http://www.astrologyland.com/
MotherShip: http://www.astrologysoftware.com/
Founder and developer of:
Matrix Software (AstrologySoftware.com), All-Music Guide (allmusic.com),
All-Movie Guide (allmovie.com), All-Game Guide, ClassicPosters.com,
StarTypes.com, FolkUnion.com, Heart Center Recording Studios, Astrology
Dialogs (ACTastrology.com), MacroStop.com (photography), Astrologyland.com
(fun), StarTypes.com
Chönyi
>
> Asking Michael if he had the calculations for this I believe you did not
> look into all the details of the Tibetan Horoscope program I have sent
> to you.
> The Tibetan Horoscope program I have sent to you I include the
> calculations for new moon and when the next moon days start after a
> shift of 12° and the calculations for missing and double moon-days and
> depending on the country and place selection the calculations use
> longitude, latitude, temperature, height of observer and air pressure.
I understand, but this has nothing to do with Phugpa calculations, the
concepts of timezone, longitude, altitude, temperature, etc. are not
used in traditional calculations. In fact I thought someome said he
wanted to use traditional caculations with timezone shifting, but it
seems my memory is wrong... sorry for the noise!
Thank you,
--
Chönyi
Kees de Nobel
No my mail was an answer to Ch�nyi.
I understand perfectly well what you mean. Last week I visited my Guru
Lama Gawang and he was very pleased by the implementation of the Tibetan
Astrology / Horoscope in a computer program but at the same time he
mentioned that I should also put enough time in meditation and dharma
practice.
Kees
Op 2011-07-07 12:13, Michael Erlewine schreef:
Michael Erlewine
Michael
I just found our H.H. is coming to KTD, our monastery, in the next week or
so and I am planning to get there. Wow.
Edward Henning
time zones with either the Phugpa or Tsurphu traditions - that is part
of real, or accurate, astronomy. Having saidf that, the "Amdo"
calendar that I am lookiong at, I am told takes the longitude of Amdo
into account, although I have not come across a clear reference yet.
And of course, that is dealing with a reasonably accurate form of
calculations, the Jesuit system introdcued into China...
Edward.
Edward Henning
<<<Michael, I think you said you had an implementation doing this, how
does it insert in the traditional calculations? What about applying
the timezone correction to the true weekday corresponding to a lunar
day, would that be ok? I know it's anti-traditional, but I don't think
there is anything wrong to talk about this...>>>
To do a correction for longitude - although I see no point! - is the
easiest thing. For example, if you wanted to adjust the Phugpa
calculations for longitude 30 degrees west of Lhasa, in that place
events occur two hours earlier on the LMST clock. So, if a new Moon
occurs at 12.00 in Lhasa, it is at 10.00 LMST(mean or true, it matters
not) in your target place. That two hour difference is 5 nadi, and so
all you need to do is subtract 5 from the nadi position of the epoch
mean weekday (gza') value, and you are done; no need to change
anything else. You now have a "time-zone shifted" Phugpa calendar. Any
attempt to adjust this after the calculations have been done would be
a mess.
My holiday is nearly over - heading home tomorrow. I must be getting bored...!
O yes, I have come out to Turkey to meet up with my wife for a week.
Somebody - was it Kees? - mentioned a while ago the Feng Shui methods
of searching the dragons, and I said I would ask her. Apparently this
is mainly taught in Hong Kong. My wife's connection is with San Yuen
(three period school) Master, Yip Wan-Nung, who organises treks for
several days up and down the hillsides checking out the dragons. She
also mentioned Joseph Yu, originally from Malaysia. There is also an
English woman who organises these treks, and apparently if you are in
a real hurry and have more money than sense, you can be guided along
the dragons in a helicopter...!
Edward.
Chönyi
>
> To do a correction for longitude - although I see no point! - is the
> easiest thing. For example, if you wanted to adjust the Phugpa
> calculations for longitude 30 degrees west of Lhasa, in that place
> events occur two hours earlier on the LMST clock. So, if a new Moon
> occurs at 12.00 in Lhasa, it is at 10.00 LMST(mean or true, it matters
> not) in your target place. That two hour difference is 5 nadi, and so
> all you need to do is subtract 5 from the nadi position of the epoch
> mean weekday (gza') value, and you are done; no need to change
> anything else. You now have a "time-zone shifted" Phugpa calendar. Any
> attempt to adjust this after the calculations have been done would be
> a mess.
This is just the answer I needed, thank you!
> O yes, I have come out to Turkey to meet up with my wife for a week.
> Somebody - was it Kees? - mentioned a while ago the Feng Shui methods
> of searching the dragons, and I said I would ask her. Apparently this
> is mainly taught in Hong Kong. My wife's connection is with San Yuen
> (three period school) Master, Yip Wan-Nung, who organises treks for
> several days up and down the hillsides checking out the dragons. She
> also mentioned Joseph Yu, originally from Malaysia. There is also an
> English woman who organises these treks, and apparently if you are in
> a real hurry and have more money than sense, you can be guided along
> the dragons in a helicopter...!
I was interested in this topic, thank you for the tips, I'll take a look
at these names on the Internet to see if they have written books...
Thank you!
--
Chönyi