Questions / answers regarding WB text and examples

[Kees de Nobel]

Use this thread for questions and answers.
This is the main thread.
Add a new questions as an answer to this thread.
Answer the question.

In this case all questions will be in one place and it will be easy to
see them all.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

implementing the "other aspect of year calculations" page 87 White Beryl
I calculate the following results using the example birth year "Mouse"

example:
birth year 1948 Earth Mouse
years to be examined 1960 till 1969

1960 Metal Mouse gives rang-keg ( both Mouse )
1961 Metal Ox gives nad-dgra
1962 Water Tiger gives bye-bral bzhi
1963 Water Rabbit gives gshed and lo-skar ske-ba ( greater star )
1964 Wood Dragon gives lnga-mthun
1965 Wood Snake gives drug-'gras
1966 Fire Horse gives bdun-zur
1967 Fire Sheep
1968 Earth Monkey
1969 Earth Rooster gives shed and skar-chung ( lesser star )
1970

1963 and 1969 both have two results.

1963 due the fact that they have identical calculations according to the
WB they are both calculated four places forward.

1969 due the fact the calculation for shed is four places backwards and
the lesser star is calculated seven places forward from the greater star.

Is this correct ? or do I have to change the calculations ?

Kees

Op 2011-07-26 18:30, Kees de Nobel schreef:

[Kees de Nobel]

working on the calculations of "general categories of inauspicious
years" White Beryl page 87 I found something what seemed strange to me.

In the explanations
the first gives an "accursed Nag-'thus lo" for the Iron Bird year.
the third gives a "six lesser star skar-chung drug" for the Iron Bird year.

the first gives an "accursed Nag-'thus lo" for the Fire Monkey year.
the third gives a "six lesser star skar-chung drug" for the Fire Monkey
year.

the first gives an "accursed Nag-'thus lo" for the Water Tiger year.
the fourth gives an "seven maling years gdug-ba-gan-gyi lo bdun" for the
Water Tiger year.

the second gives an "auspicious lo-gnan" for the Iron Dog year.
the third gives a "six lesser star skar-chung drug" for the Iron Dog year.

I did not visually check all the combinations during my programming so
there may be more seen by the program.

Is it possible to have various of the combinations of the inauspicious
years together ?
At the moment I display both as I do not know what to do with them.

Kees

Op 2011-07-26 18:30, Kees de Nobel schreef:

[Kees de Nobel]

Looking at
-the exemplary chart 4.6 page 142 WB
-correspondence table 2.13 page 112 WB

My understanding of this item is

You take a subject's aspect
e.g.

aspect	current sign
luck : Fire	hour : Hare

You look into table 2.13 at row 'fire'. Than find column with 'hare'. This gives ablution. Same as in 4.6

aspect	current sign
destiny: iron	day: bird

row 'iron'    month 'bird'    gives growth as in example 4.6

Now the different ones.

aspect	current sign
body: earth	month: sheep

  
row 'earth'    month 'sheep'  gives foetus     in the example embryo

aspect	current sign
vitality: earth	year: sheep

    
row 'earth'   month 'sheep'  gives foetus   in the example embryo

Am I using the right method ?
If so is the example incorrect ?
If not how do I find the correct items ?

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

example 4.11 WB page 160

In this example for the subject is used:

Vitality	Earth
Body	Water
Destiny	Iron
Luck	Fire

as far as I know there is no year with this combination.

Year	Vitality	Body	Destiny	Luck
Fire Cow	Earth	Water	Fire	Water
Water Dragon	Earth	Water	Water	Wood
Fire Sheep	Earth	Water	Fire	Fire
Water Dog	Earth	Water	Water	Metal

When there is a typing error the closest year is Fire Sheep where only the destiny is wrong.

For my example calculations I will use the Fire Sheep year.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

Who knows the answer ?

The prognostications etc. on page 158 of WB describe the calculations
for the mother's Natal trigram "Zin, Li, Kh�n, Dva and Kham".
What to do when the mothers Natal trigram is Khen, Khin or Z�n ?

( Looking into the Plate 3. fig 5 there are also no trigrams Khen, Khin
or Z�n. )

No problem to calculate for the mothers Numeric square.

For the example on page 160 I use

subject born 1976 which gives
Vitality Earth
Body Earth
Destiny Fire
Luck Wood

Mother born 1949 which gives
Mewa ( numeric square ) White 6

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

Looking a bit more into this I guess the answer is.

Zin Wood
Li Fire
Khon Earth - Khen Space / Earth - Gin Mountain / Earth
- Zon Air / Earth
Dva Iron
Kham Water

So for the calculations I treat Khon, Khen, Gin and Zon the same as
being Earth

Kees

Op 2011-07-28 10:20, Kees de Nobel schreef:

[Kees de Nobel]

Now a new problem pops up as you have to calculate the Natal trigram for
the Mother of the subject.
You can only calculate this Natal trigram as you know the age of the
mothers mother when the mother was born.
I assume that not so many people will know this.
For this reason I do not implement the calculation for the Trigrams.

Kees

Op 2011-07-28 10:29, Kees de Nobel schreef:

[Kees de Nobel]

This example is even worse than I mentioned before.

basis of the contrast	subject	Prediction	Pebble	Should be	Pebble
father's vitality: Earth	vitality :Earth	Misfortune	XX	Five status quo	O
mother's body: Earth	body : Water	loss of complexion	OX	Five misfortunes	XX
mother's destiny: Iron	destiny: Iron	loss of complexion	OX	Five status quo	X
Father's luck: Fire	luck:Fire	Status quo	X

Earth - Earth is an identity relationship which gives O
Earth - Water is an enemy relation which gives XX
Iron - Iron is an identity relation which gives O
Fire - Fire is an identity relation which gives X this one is Good

water-water and earth-earth give O
wood-wood, fire-fire and Iron-Iron give X

Am I right ?

Kees



Op 2011-07-27 23:19, Kees de Nobel schreef:

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[Kees de Nobel]

I just want to know if my interpretation is correct.

For the example I use:

The father's Natal sign is Sheep
The subject's Natal sign is Sheep

I look into the column where the father's sign is Sheep.
Then I go down and compare the rows with the object's Natal sign which gives me the following result.
I use an O when the subject's natal sign is not the same.
I use an X when the subject's natal sign is the same.




The father's column Sheep
has a Sheep on the 4th row which gives the X
and has a Sheep at the 12th row which gives an X

All other rows do not match with the Sheep.

If this is right I do not understand the example 4.12 where there is an X in row 3 and row 9.

Row 3 natal child can be Sheep, Dragon, Dog, Ox, Ox, Ox, Ox, Ox
Row 9 natal child can be Pig, Monkey, Tiger, Snake, Snake, Snake, Snake, Snake

If I am wrong please explain how to calculate.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

In the description in WB page 166 and page 167 there is a comparison
with the mother's trigram and with the child's year Sign.

E.g.

When a mother's natal sign is Earth Horse, Iron Dog, Water Tiger, Wood
horse or Fire Dog
and her Trigram is Zin
and she gives birth respectively at the age of 15,23,31,39,or 47
If her child is born in a Tiger, Horse or Dog year

1.
Do you have to use the
-current trigram (babs-spar)
or
-natal trigram (skye-spar)

The current trigram is easily to calculate using (child birth date -
mother birth date + 1) etc.

For the natal trigram you need to know the age of the mother's mother

when the mother was born.

Or maybe easier to understand the birth date of the grandmother and the
birth date of the mother.

2.
In the description on page 166 is spoken about a compatible Tiger, Horse
or Dog year.
Looking at the pictures I see Water Tiger, Fire Horse and Earth Dog.
Is Element and Sign what is called compatible or is the Sign of the year
enough ?

Let me know what to use.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

I changed the user interface of the Horoscope program to make it possible to enter the age of the grandmother when the mother was born.
Now when you look at WB page 160 at example 4.10 you will see on the left side in bold print that the divination is made on "mother's natal trigram GIN".
Looking on page 159 only the trigrams Zin, Li, Khon, Dva and Kham are mentioned.
When I calculate the natal trigram for the mother born 1949 and I take the Age of the grandmother at birth is 27 I reach trigram Zin and also the results on page 160 are correct.

I assume Gin must be Zin in the example 4.10.

Kees



Op 2011-07-28 11:02, Kees de Nobel schreef:

Now a new problem pops up as you have to calculate the Natal trigram for the Mother of the subject.
You can only calculate this Natal trigram as you know the age of the mothers mother when the mother was born.
I assume that not so many people will know this.
For this reason I do not implement the calculation for the Trigrams.

Kees


Op 2011-07-28 10:29, Kees de Nobel schreef:

Looking a bit more into this I guess the answer is.

Zin    Wood
Li     Fire
Khon    Earth  -  Khen    Space / Earth   -   Gin    Mountain / Earth   -   Zon    Air / Earth
Dva    Iron
Kham    Water

So for the calculations I treat Khon, Khen, Gin and Zon the same as being Earth

Kees


Op 2011-07-28 10:20, Kees de Nobel schreef:

Who knows the answer ?

The prognostications etc. on page 158 of WB describe the calculations for the mother's Natal trigram "Zin, Li, Khön, Dva and Kham".
What to do when the mothers Natal trigram is Khen, Khin or Zön ?

( Looking into the Plate 3. fig 5 there are also no trigrams Khen, Khin or Zön. )

[Kees de Nobel]

Experimenting a little I found that you have to use:

Child born Fire Dragon 1976/5/19  05:00   (1976/7/15)
Mother born Metal Sheep 1931/4/26  05:00   (1931/6/11)
Father born Metal Sheep 1931/4/24  05:00   (1931/6/9)

Age of the grandmother at birth 28

This will give the results as mentioned in WB page 160 example 4.10

Regarding my previous note about GIN I handle GIN, Khen, Khon, Zon all as being "Earth".
So Gin can stay as Gin.

Kees


Op 2011-08-03 22:46, Kees de Nobel schreef:

[Kees de Nobel]

After reading the description I do have some notes about this example.

Basis of contrast	Subject	Prediction	Pebble	Must be to my opinion	Pebble
Father's vitality Earth	Earth	Misfortune	XX	five status quo	O
Mother's body Earth

Water

loss of complexion

OX

five misfortunes	XX
Mother's destiny Iron

Iron

loss of complexion

OX

five status quo	O
Father's luck Fire	Fire	status quo	X

-Father's Vitality and subject are both EARTH which is an identity which gives a five status quo
-Mother's body Earth and subject Water is an enemy relation which gives five misfortunes ( for a loss of complexion there should be a SON relation which is impossible for Earth and Water )
-Mother's destiny and subject are both IRON which is an identity which gives a five status quo

Am I correct ?

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

Trying to implement these calculations I needed test data but could not calculate these.

E.g.

Using the first column from Plate 4 fig 7 page 167 where the mother's Natal Element and Sign can be
Earth Horse, Iron Dog, Water Tiger, Wood Horse or Fire Dog I made the following list.

Looking into this list I will never have a child born 'when the mother is 15, 23, 31, 39 or 47' in a
-Tiger, Horse or Dog year  so never a triple Saturn alliance
-Bird, Ox or Snake year so never a Saturn-Jupiter conjunction
-Pig, Sheep or Hare year so never a Saturn-Mercury conjunction

Element / Sign	Mother born	Child birth at	Child birth at	Child birth at	Child birth at
Earth Horse	1918	1
Earth Sheep	1919	2
Iron Monkey	1920	3
Iron Bird	1921	4
Water Dog	1922	5
Water Pig	1923	6
Wood Mouse	1924	7
Wood Ox	1925	8
Fire Tiger	1926	9
Fire Rabbit	1927	10
Earth Dragon	1928	11
Earth Snake	1929	12
Iron Horse	1930	13
Iron Sheep	1931	14
Water Monkey	1932	15
Water Bird	1933	16
Wood Dog	1934	17
Wood Pig	1935	18
Fire Mouse	1936	19
Fire Ox	1937	20
Earth Tiger	1938	21
Earth Rabbit	1939	22
Iron Dragon	1940	23
Iron Snake	1941	24
WaterHorse	1942	25
Water Sheep	1943	26
Wood Monkey	1944	27
Wood Bird	1945	28
Fire Dog	1946	29
Fire Pig	1947	30
Earth Mouse	1948	31
Earth Ox	1949	32
Iron Tiger	1950	33
Iron Rabbit	1951	34
Water Dragon	1952	35
Water Snake	1953	36
Wood Horse	1954	37			1
Wood Sheep	1955	38			2
Fire Monkey	1956	39			3
Fire Bird	1957	40			4
Earth Dog	1958	41			5
Earth Pig	1959	42			6
Iron Mouse	1960	43			7
Iron Ox	1961	44			8
Water Tiger	1962	45		1	9
WaterRabbit	1963	46		2	10
Wood Dragon	1964	47		3	11
Wood Snake	1965	48		4	12
Fire Horse	1966	49		5	13
Fire Sheep	1967	50		6	14
Earth Monkey	1968	51		7	15
Earth Bird	1969	52		8	16
Iron Dog	1970	53	1	9	17
Iron Pig	1971	54	2	10	18
Water Mouse	1972	55	3	11	19
Water Ox	1973	56	4	12	20
Wood Tiger	1974	57	5	13	21
Wood Rabbit	1975	58	6	14	22
Fire Dragon	1976	59	7	15	23
Fire Snake	1977	60	8	16	24
Earth Horse	1978		9	17	25
Earth Sheep	1979		10	18	26
Iron Monkey	1980		11	19	27
Iron Bird	1981		12	20	28
Water Dog	1982		13	21	29
Water Pig	1983		14	22	30
Wood Mouse	1984		15	23	31
Wood Ox	1985		16	24	32
Fire Tiger	1986		17	25	33
Fire Rabbit	1987		18	26	34
Earth Dragon	1988		19	27	35
Earth Snake	1989		20	28	36
Iron Horse	1990		21	29	37
Iron Sheep	1991		22	30	38
Water Monkey	1992		23	31	39
Water Bird	1993		24	32	40
Wood Dog	1994		25	33	41
Wood Pig	1995		26	34	42
Fire Mouse	1996		27	35	43
Fire Ox	1997		28	36	44
Earth Tiger	1998		29	37	45
Earth Rabbit	1999		30	38	46
Iron Dragon	2000		31	39	47
Iron Snake	2001		32	40	48
WaterHorse	2002		33	41	49
Water Sheep	2003		34	42	50
Wood Monkey	2004		35	43	51
Wood Bird	2005		36	44	52
Fire Dog	2006		37	45	53
Fire Pig	2007		38	46	54
Earth Mouse	2008		39	47	55
Earth Ox	2009		40	48	56
Iron Tiger	2010		41	49	57
Iron Rabbit	2011		42	50	58
Water Dragon	2012		43	51	59
Water Snake	2013		44	52	60
Wood Horse	2014		45	53
Wood Sheep	2015		46	54
Fire Monkey	2016		47	55
Fire Bird	2017		48	56
Earth Dog	2018		49	57
Earth Pig	2019		50	58
Iron Mouse	2020		51	59
Iron Ox	2021		52	60
Water Tiger	2022		53
Water Rabbit	2023		54
Wood Dragon	2024		55
Wood Snake	2025		56
Fire Horse	2026		57
Fire Sheep	2027		58
Earth Monkey	2028		59
Earth Bird	2029		60
Iron Dog	2030
Iron Pig	2031
Water Mouse	2032
Water Ox	2033
Wood Tiger	2034
Wood Rabbit	2035
Fire Dragon	2036
Fire Snake	2037

The onliest combinations I find is
-Mouse, Dragon or Monkey year which is the Mars-Saturn conjunction.

Who can inform me to get the other combinations.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

To all:

On page 170 from Tibetan Elemental Divination Paintings there exist a
chapter:

"Prognostications concerning inauspicious luck aspects of the years"

Can somebody explain how this fits into the Natal horoscope.

I understand the explanations like "Fire Tiger kills Iron Dragon", etc.
but who is the Fire Tiger and who is the Iron Dragon in a Natal Horoscope.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

prognostications concerning the number of children WB 176

I do not understand this chapter for the Natal horoscope as to my
understanding it has to do with marriage.

Will implement this chapter when I come to the marriage horoscope.

Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

Trying to implement this I always find more than one answer.

E.g.
Sector growth and decline starting for element Wood I use the elements as given for the signs.

Wood

Monkey

Bird

Dog

Pig

Mouse

Ox

Tiger

Hare

Dragon

Snake

Horse

Sheep

Conception

Embryo

Foetus

Birth

Ablution

Clothing

Work

Growth

Decline

Ill-health

Death

Tomb

Element

Metal

Metal

Earth

Water

Water

Earth

Wood

Wood

Earth

Fire

Fire

Earth

Clothing / Growth		Earth	Wood
Birth / Work		Water	Wood
Embryo / Ablution		Metal	Water
Conception / Foetus		Metal	Earth
Tomb / Ill-health		Earth	Fire
Death / Decline		Fire	Earth

When I take Vitality element Earth this coincides with Clothing, Foetus and Decline. This gives three answers.

I assume I have to compare the elements in another way.

Who can inform me how to use these comparisons.



Kees

[Kees de Nobel]

WB page 195

Question 1
1:
plate 7 fig 5
marriages between the following combinations of year sign may form a loving compatible relationship
mouse;ox;tiger

2:
plate 7 fig 6
marriages between the following combinations of year sign may bring the family line to an end
mouse with tiger or pig

3:
plate 7 fig 9
marriages between the following combinations of year sign may result in a couple having no descendants
mouse and ox

Do I always have to mention all possibilities like
for mouse and ox 1 and 3
for mouse and tiger 1 and 2

Question 2

plate 7 fig 6
Tiger with Hare or Snake, etc.
Does this mean a
Male Tiger with Female Hare or Female Snake
and
Female Tiger with Male Hare or Male Snake

Question 3

Do you have to compare for all other signs the Male - Female and the the Female - Male or is the gender of the person not important.
E.g.
plate 7 fig 7
Male Hare and Female Pig
Female Hare and Male Pig
 


Kees