OOC - Technosphere Foreign Policy

[David Lunking]

SP and I were discussing joining our fellow threads in their expansionist, colonial activities, and I realized a disturbing fact for our nascent nation-state: We, the PCs, are the ones effecting the foreign policy for the Technosphere.

 

Admittedly, we're the PCs - we should be doing the important things. But does it make sense for the three Supreme Court justices and an influential private citizen to be making and breaking deals on behalf of the Technosphere? We have explicitly elected a new (NPC) president, and in theory she should be appointing a Secretary of State as part of her cabinet. While we certainly have the most foreign policy experience in the Technosphere, it just seems a little strange.

 

Now throw in a conflict of interest - by pursuing personal projects that may have significant international consequences (getting uranium from Rising Sun, exploring areas for colonization, designing harvesters for clearing land, etc.), I can always ultimately rule my actions legal, what with being a Supreme Court justice. Not that I would, but I'm certain someone could construe our actions as being for personal gain at the cost of the 'Sphere.

 

Any thoughts?

 

~D

--
"A talent is formed in stillness, a character in the world's torrent."
~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[John Cooke]

OOC:

Just to pipe in here. Traditionally, the model has been that the PC's can drive policy by expending the effort to *do* stuff, and then extra effort to influence the correct people, within reason. Obviously, as Supreme Court Justices, you wield an immense amount of power, not to mention residual prestige from your previous stations. Even more if you trample the idea of judicial impartiality. I suspect Kirt has a good idea of what sort of pushback you can expect on foreign policy issues.

John

[Shaun Pal Smith]

Yeah, the whole supreme court justice, diplomat, etc thing is something I hadn't considered at all, but now that I do, it is something that we should deal with, because judges are not supposed to be setting policy.  I'll think about it some more and see if I come up with anything.

-Sp

[Carolyn Grodt]

Who decided on making you guys Justices? 

Youre still Elrics, right?

~C

[Shaun Pal Smith]

Um, I think the answer is yes, we're Elrics, but the council has been disbanded so we're only responsible for doling out justice.

[David Lunking]

One of the decisions to come after the Feral Detroit Daedalus Revolt was a constitution with 3 branches of government, modeled as a parliamentary system slightly faster than the real US government. One of the decisions was to appoint the 3 Elrics (Archibald 2, Sim, and Winter) as Supreme Court Justices, and elect a separate president. In the last BGA round I supported a Technomage as President. There was little support for Archibald 1, so I supported an otherwise minor but telegenic Technomage named Dr. Naka Nakatomi, who was spontaneously generated from the AEther of Kirt's mind. She won with little opposition.

 

I interpret our current job is to adjudicate law within the Technosphere, assuming we're modeled closely on the US Supreme Court. In practice, it's likely to be a combination of high level theoretical discussion a la Supreme Court, mixed with day to day arbitration of mundane affairs. Afterall, how many judges does a population of 10,000 really need? (Estimate: 51,200 'judges of all varieties' for a population of 300 million: 2. http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos272.htm)  

 

Doling out justice would be more akin to Judge Dredd, in which case I want a flying motorcycle and an awesome machinegun. And awesome body armor. And my own comic book series. But not a movie starring Sylvester Stallone.

 

~D

[Kirt Dankmyer]

META META META

Let's clarify things a bit, here.

Y'all asked the population to produce a government. Let us review the
result of that BGA:

Given the highly individual nature of Technosphere society, the
resulting government is on a parliamentary coalition-based model,
complete with a Prime Minister as the executive, though with a strong
American-style Supreme Court and the enshrinement of the concept of
the rule of law.

Interestingly, the decision is to make the current Elrics a three-man
Supreme Court, with the Prime Minister appointing replacements if and
when the Elrics die. The main role for the Elrics seems to be as
interpreters of Daedalus law.

That's the other interesting thing that comes out of this. The new,
post-Technosphere state, after a particularly vicious committee
meeting, is declared the Daedalus Sovereignty, though people still
informally talk about the Technosphere.

At this point, I'm ruling that it's a single-body Parliament, since
there are no "states" to worry about for the whole House of
Representatives / Senate issue. This being the former Technosphere, I
imagine that everything is sliced up by location via computer so that
each seat represents the same amount of the population. Along the
lines of the weird British / American mix they came up with, rather
than being called "Members of Parliament" or MPs, someone elected to
parliament is simply called a Representative, echoing the US House of
Representatives.

In any case, in that BGA I then said that parliamentary elections
would be the next month, i.e. the BGA cycle before MK.

You guys only filed on the Chief Executive, so my assumption -- and I
apologize if this wasn't clear -- is that you have a parliament now,
and then you influenced the representatives in their choice of Prime
Minister.

The majority party of the many tiny little political parties, perhaps
in coalition with some others, and influenced by y'all, chose Dr. Naka
Nakatani as Prime Minister. I guess I should have used the verb
"chosen" rather than "elected" in my BGA result for that, for clarity.

In any case, as those of you who filed on this know, Dr. Naka Nakatani
is part of the cabal of Technomages who brought in Kensai Starke as a
consultant during the crisis during the Feral Detroit deployment. She
is smart and hardworking, but not too smart, and relatively telegenic,
and ultimately very loyal to the Technomages while seeming like an
"outsider" enough that anti-Elric folk feel comfortable with her.

Really, at this point I'm imagining that the majority party in
Parliament is the newly-formed Technocrats, which supports creating
something as akin to the old Technosphere as possible but with more
Technomage accountability to the people at large. Dr. Nakatani fits
this mold quite well, especially as her PhDs are in Psychology,
History, and Computer Science, making her a somewhat "soft"
Technomage.

Now, while the Chief Executive is a Prime Minister and not a
President, the Cabinet follows a more American model, with a little
more power in the hands of the Prime Minister than is in the hands of
the old US President. In particular, the Prime Minister, alone,
determines what positions exist in her Cabinet.

In this particular case, Dr. Nakatani is currently inclined to have
the following positions:

Secretary of State: Handles foreign affairs.
Secretary of Security: Handles affairs of both the police and the
military, security both external and internal. Also matters of
justice.
Secretary of Science: Because it works, bitches. Anything involving
technology and science.
Secretary of Society: Handles the welfare of the people, especially
when it comes to economic matters.

Given that this is a very young political entity, there really aren't
any rules or traditions regarding conflict of interest. The old
Technosphere generally assumed that people were ethical... and that
resulted them getting nuked. However, there's still a lot of optimism,
and since the Prime Minister can take away positions in her Cabinet at
any time, she can assume ethical behavior and yank a position if that
turns out not to be the case.

Given that, and given that the former Elrics and Bethany ARE the most
experienced at this sort of thing in the remaining Technosphere, Dr.
Nakatani is inclined to hand out the positions as follows:

State: Archibald
Security: Winter
Science: Sim
Society: Bethany

However, she's willing to be persuaded otherwise. We can discuss that here.

As for her preference on foreign policy, Dr. Nakatani feels that the
Technosphere needs to shore up allies among the TL7 powers (the Hive
and Rising Sun come to mind, especially) and does need to aggressively
participate in any sort of resource grab, so long as this can be done
reasonably ethically. (That is, native peoples should get a cut or
some compensation.)

On a meta level, I really want you guys setting policy, but Nakatani
and the new government can be influenced via BGAs and can serve as a
sort of GM check on y'all. But really, I'd rather give you guys wide
latitude, at least at first. Nakatani likes you, at least at the
moment. :)

How does that sound? Does that make sense?

--
Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer -- http://ivanhoeunbound.com -- xiomBRAG on AIM
cats * hats * RPGs * love * Eris * Agent Patriot * anime * Dada * poetry
"Only ONE MAN can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me!" -Death

[Shaun Pal Smith]

Yeah, that sounds good to me, and is about how we've been operating.  We just wanted to make sure that we weren't about to cause another violent outburst of public opinion that ruined our burgeoning government.

-Sp

[Kirt Dankmyer]

You filed for a pro-Technomage governmentn so you have one. It's up to
you to keep it that way through your BGAs and actions. :)

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Gordon Olmstead-Dean]

So...I think this is one of those areas where the previous GMs dislike of players interfering with plot may have caused problems.

I can't speak for Kirt, but as a MATTER OF COURSE, PCs run many other Threads.

There is usually some "check" on their ability to do stupid things, like for example decide to commit their entire nation's resources to helping sob-sister-sally with her magical curse that is making her sick, really really sick, and she's such a nice person and a PC...

But...in general the players drive overall policy.  

The mechanism isn't and doesn't need to be defined strictly.  The conceit is that players are influential thinkers and people reflective of an "average" opinion.  In many ways the mechanism is the same as the one that was used in several older games for Congress and Parliament (where players represented...when those bodies met..."factions" of people with like interests). 1897: Diamond Jubilee comes to mind, though in the end Brassy's used some similar mechanics due to lack of PCs actually playing MPs.

Obviously the thing that goes with this is the need for players to be sane.  To ask not "what does my PC want" but "what would it be reasonable for me to get in terms of leeway."  In a state that is only a little larger than my High School and smaller than my College, one person might have really substantial sway in any case.  But even in Rising Sun or the ENY, players are seen as "indicative" of the overall political mood and often guide it.

[Kirt Dankmyer]

Yes, what Gordon is talking about is the general thing I'm going for.
The details I provide exist because (A) I like details and (B) they
give y'all something to talk about when talking to other PCs and NPCs
with regard to the decisions you're making IC, and to justify the
influence you're going to have in any case as the players. This
doesn't mean you need to get hung up on them, and it doesn't mean you
have to consult my NPCs on everything, tho it's helpful for me if you
tell me what you're doing. :)

[David Lunking]

This arrangement sounds good to me. Time for coordinating with the Hive and Rising Sun, as well as some active exploration and colonization. Kirt, expect a few BGAs in those directions, but with a separate discussion beforehand.

 

My only question is the status of Zeta. As she is the Daedalus and the Daedalus is Zeta, where does she fit in our government? While we are at the mercy of a capricious Hiver in command of the single greatest weapon in history, she is also at our mercy, as we maintain and supply her. Right now we're operating on good will and the general kindness of all involved, but that seems an unstable choice. Make her Secretary of Systems in order to keep with the alliteration?

 

Kirt, John, Gordon - thanks for the input. You guys are certainly helpful and accessible, and we're all having loads of fun.

 

~D

[Kirt Dankmyer]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 5:17 PM, David Lunking <david....@gmail.com> wrote:
> My only question is the status of Zeta. As she is the Daedalus and the
> Daedalus is Zeta, where does she fit in our government? While we are at the
> mercy of a capricious Hiver in command of the single greatest weapon in
> history, she is also at our mercy, as we maintain and supply her. Right now
> we're operating on good will and the general kindness of all involved, but
> that seems an unstable choice. Make her Secretary of Systems in order to
> keep with the alliteration?

That would be acceptable to Prime Minister Nakatani (and to me). Both
Kirt and Nakatani find the alliteration amusing. ;-)

However, unlike previous Technosphere patron writers, you do NOT have
to amuse me in order to succeed at something. ^_^

[Carolyn Grodt]

I like amusing you.

[Tom Bethards]

So Dr. Sim's business card should now read:  Dr. Narasimba Naharaj, Associate Justice, Minister of Science, Daedalus Sovereignty.  I'm assuming that Archibald 2 is Chief Justice, although Justice Naharaj would be willing to take the job if this is not the case. 

Now this does violate separation of powers (on the U.S.A part of our model), but I guess it will do for now.  Also, we could have an upper house, like the House of Lords, made up of senior Technomages (like Nakatani and the four of us, and others), but it would be mostly ceremonial, and therefor a waste of resources.

On the question of whether or not colonization is legal, or other major constitutional issues, I believe a majority vote would be required, and Justice Naharaj would be a pretty hard sell on this particular question, given his ancestry and values.  Of course, Winter and Archibald could just vote without him, but a dissent would look bad to outside powers.  I think we should have some loud debates about this at the Hive deployment, unless there is a reason to act on it sooner.  In the latter case, Sim will support Nakatani's position, which is pretty much what said al along on the old Ethics Committee.

Other than that, it looks good.

Tom

[Tom Bethards]

I will support said BGA, after discussion.  Forget what I said about loud debates at the Hive -- provided that Dr. Sim gets some of what he wants, of course.

Secretary of Systems, but with no vote in the legislature, works for me.

On Jul 14, 2010, at 5:17 PM, David Lunking wrote:

[David Lunking]

From what I recall of the Ethics Committee session I attended, all the major powers/players used it as an excuse to further their expansionistic goals. And that was in Season 1!

 

Honestly, if we follow PM Dr. Nakatani's position, we'll be in accordance with precedent, but since we're actually nice people we might actually have what little moral high ground colonizers can honestly take. This is acceptable to me.

 

I have a plan for what would work, but I will move the discussion IC in a separate thread to follow.

[John Cooke]

Thought I would post in the OOC thread to ask if I have permission/access to participate in the IC thread. I wont be upset if the answer is no :)

[Kirt Dankmyer]

Right, you're mainly here as a GM. I'll leave that up to the players.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, John Cooke <jco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thought I would post in the OOC thread to ask if I have permission/access to
> participate in the IC thread. I wont be upset if the answer is no :)

--

[John Cooke]

Exactly, which is why I wanted to ask first.

[Shaun Pal Smith]

John, I'm willing to have had this conversation with you IC, (as we've already had most of these convo's IC already) but I don't want this thread to become something that we have to worry about becoming a pipeline to the rising sun.

-Sp

[John Cooke]

In that case, Ill just stay out of it, and let you communicate with me whatever you want to once you have had your internal conversation.

John

[Kirt Dankmyer]

Yeah, I think you let this proceed with the writer's hat on and the TS
folk can poke you IC in email afterward. I know this is exciting. :)

--

Sent from my mobile device

Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer -- http://ivanhoeunbound.com -- xiomBRAG on AIM

[David Lunking]

Right - we totally don't want Rising Sun knowing about our secret armada of a starships and our cache of Romulan ale.

 

~D

[John Cooke]

You know, its the Romulan Ale that would hurt Adam the most. :)

[Kirt Dankmyer]

You know y'all want to file a BGA to steal cool stuff from high-Sigma
Threads before they pop. :)

[David Lunking]

I was waiting for the all out war with the Gernsbach Continuum, but I was literally just thinking about a probablistic retrieval service that gets things that never existed. Hen's teeth, Romulan ale, noble savages, sane Technomages...

 

~D