Fwd: modified michigan TDF

[Hristo Itchov]

OK, guys, here's the track TDF file we're going to use, just copy it over into your Michigan track folder.

It has my modification of the bumps and Dom has leveled out the grip to 1.0 all around (instead of the insane 1.10 the high groove had!).

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dom Leste <dom...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Subject: modified michigan TDF
To: Hristo Itchov <hristo...@gmail.com>


modified michigan TDF

--
Kind Regards,

Hristo Itchov
Email: hristo...@gmail.com

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[DS Purdy]

You don't suppose they did that so there WERE two grooves? Typically, rFactor ovals have no upper groove at all, it is just farther to go around and not faster also. Therefore no side by side running is possible. maybe this one had that capability. :-O

 

Dave

[Hristo]

There are no lines on real ovals, no marble zones except close to the
walls. The way they had it there was unreal amount of grip on the
outside. 1.0 is the maximum a surface should have, anything above is
ridiculous. The small change of grip was making it worse actually,
unsettling the car when you make the transitions from those different
grip grooves on turn in and exit.

Anyway, I can guarantee that we would be able to run side by side with
ease on this track. I can't imagine real tracks having a grippier
surface on the outside line, the only difference came from the higher
banking and wider lines the car had to tackle.

On Jul 31, 2:56 am, "DS Purdy" <dave.dsps...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You don't suppose they did that so there WERE two grooves? Typically, rFactor ovals have no upper groove at all, it is just farther to go around and not faster also. Therefore no side by side running is possible. maybe this one had that capability. :-O
>
> Dave
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Hristo Itchov
>   To: thor-onli...@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:08 PM
>   Subject: [THOR Online League:312] Fwd: modified michigan TDF
>
>   OK, guys, here's the track TDF file we're going to use, just copy it over into your Michigan track folder.
>
>   It has my modification of the bumps and Dom has leveled out the grip to 1.0 all around (instead of the insane 1.10 the high groove had!).
>
>   ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>   From: Dom Leste <dom7...@gmail.com>
>   Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:15 PM
>   Subject: modified michigan TDF
>   To: Hristo Itchov <hristoitc...@gmail.com>
>
>   modified michigan TDF
>
>   --
>   Kind Regards,
>
>   Hristo Itchov

>   Email: hristoitc...@gmail.com

[DS Purdy]

Rubber builds up higher and higher until there are at least two lines (low
and high) on real ovals, but rFactor doesn't have this feature, so they
probably added grip up high to compensate and it was likely done for NASCAR
stock cars.

On another note, when is the Portland race going to get posted on the site
in the results?

[Hristo]

Sorry for the delay, results are up now!

As for the groove... it still doesn't make sense to me, Dave... how
exactly does rubber build up higher if everyone runs down low during
practice and qualifying? If you mean in the race, it probably happens,
but not after a good number of laps.

Besides, we don't have marbles in rF, so normal grip is still better
than what they have in reality on the high groove. In a way, the whole
width of the track is our "line", so making the higher groove grippier
would effectively create just one "cleaner" line up high. Another
thing is, the clean lines you mention form up mostly in the corners,
not around the whole lap as they model it here.

See you on Monday,

-=Hristo=-

[DS Purdy]

The high groove develops during the race and maybe even during practice
which can carry over to the race if it doesn't rain in between. They just
start running a bit higher and higher sometimes because they are loose down
low, or too tight to run low, and the upper groove develops. I am sure it
isn't modelled quite right by putting the upper half at 1.10, ( that seems a
bit drastic, 1.02 maybe more like it ), but it was designed for the US Pits
stock cars. Probably not right for these cars. They wanted the stock cars to
be able to run on the outside at a slightly higher speed so they could get
the momentum off the corners. In rFactor, passing on the outside isn't
really possible, (except with help from behind maybe), but in a side by side
race the lower groove prevails because the higher groove is longer around
the corners and the cars won't go faster when up high. Anyway, I am not
saying that is the right way to do it, but just explaining why they did
that. A little more banking as you get higher, (a concave shape), would do
it too. Some tracks in NASCAR are actually made like that..

[Joseph Mudrak]

Drivers also run the high line because of the momentum it gives those who run it as they run "downhill" out of the corner and use a wider radius through the corner. This, plus the opportunity of drafting cars to get by the group on the low line, gives an incentive to rubber the line down during practices. So yes, high lines are common in oval racing.

[Hristo]

OK, I see what you two are saying and it seems reasonable for cars
that can't go flat out, but in these there's really no need to have
this (odd feeling) change because they make the corners with ease. We
should consider slower ovals that are made this way for next season as
that would make racing more competitive. TBH I was hoping the CART mod
would be released with some modified or new tracks to suit it better,
but alas, no.

[Joseph Mudrak]

You should have watched the Indycar race tonight Hristo. :)

[Eldred Pickett]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Joseph Mudrak<kard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You should have watched the Indycar race tonight Hristo. :)
>

That was a GREAT race!

Eldred
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Thanks!

[DS Purdy]

I also see why you didn't want that there. In this case the car is going as
fast as it goes, period. Flat out without the draft is about 233 mph, and
since 30 seconds around the centre line of the track, where it is supposed
to be 2 miles, or higher, would require it to go 240 mph all the way around,
which more grip doesn't help at all. Maybe if you were in the draft of
another car, you could get up to that speed, but not likely on an oval, only
maybe on the Bonneville salt flats or somewhere like that, or perhaps the
old Lemans with the 4 mile straight? :-P.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hristo" <Hristo...@gmail.com>
To: "THOR Online League" <thor-onli...@googlegroups.com>

[Hristo]

I received an e-mail about it because I'm subscribed to the site, but
when I went there it said there was no live footage... must've clicked
at the wrong time and then was under impression the race is today. :/

[BoBruce]

>
>
> ED CARPENTER:
>
> I think Firestone brought a really good tire here, too. There weren't
> marbles. The high lines stayed clean. We were able to use multiple
> lanes and had the grip to take advantage of it.
>

[Hristo]

OK, then we're set properly, with equal grip all around and no
marbles. ;)

[DS Purdy]

It remains to be seen if two or three cars up high can push past one car
down low. I think the train would have to get up to at least 240 mph to stay
with a lone car hugging the yellow line, through a turn, (or whatever color
it is)! The car by itself is totally peaked out at around 233 or 234
somewhere. As Hristo said, if we weren't running flat out at the top speed
of the car, the high line might be worthwhile. I think it may be very hard
to pass without an error on the part of the front car, such as running wide
into a turn, (not that hard to prevent). You will have to get a run with
the tow on the back straight and get under the other car. We'll see if a 2
or 3 car train can push by on the high side or not. Maybe if the lead car is
forced to pinch down to the line on the back straight.... That could be
disasterous going into turn 3 though! :-O

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hristo" <Hristo...@gmail.com>
To: "THOR Online League" <thor-onli...@googlegroups.com>

[Hristo]

Well, the Handford device gives a lot of extra speed inside the
slipstream, so you can easily line up on the side of the car ahead and
move in front going into the corner, either low or high. Not sure how
the cars are going to handle with full fuel, but shouldn't be too much
of a difference so it should still be flat out all around.

The difference here is you can start slipstreaming any time you want
and not just on the straights like at Indy where corners were tricky.
Got to be careful when exiting the slipstream though, as well as when
you have someone close to your back due to the loss of rear downforce.