Letting Go of--and Recapturing--the Past
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Patrick
Apr 16, 2009, 1:31:28 PM4/16/09
to Thinking about Games
In 1995 or so, I became disillusioned about wargaming. Up to then,
I'd believed in the concept of a "consim"--a serious attempt to model
battles and such in the form of games. I wanted to believe playing a
wargame was as good as reading a history book, educationally
speaking. But while immersed in an Advanced Squad Leader scenario in
1995, it hit me that really the game has a lot more in common with
chess than with the combat events being portrayed. As someone put it
recently, it's like the scene in The Wizard of Oz, where Dorothy is
told to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
Since then, I've made some mostly abortive attempts to get back into
wargaming. But it's just not the same anymore. And for the first
time, I'm coming to terms with that: it's never going to be the same
as it was, and that's OK.
Furthermore, I'm probably not remembering things just right. So it's
possible that things never were the way I think they were. And that's
OK too.
The point isn't what *was* anyway; it's what *is.*
I usually don't like reality checks. Reality never measures up to the
way I'd like things to be, or even the way I imagine them to be. But
still, reality has one big thing going for it: it's real.
What's real for me is that I play games with others so rarely that
it's an insignificant part of my life. For all my fond memories and
such, the games I own just sit and gather dust for months on end
before one of them ever gets pulled out and used. And then we play it
just once or twice before it's back on the shelf again for at least
several months more.
However, I do play games by myself almost every day--mostly on a
computer or console. At home, I'll put on some music, kick my feet
up, and play on the PC. At lunchtime on a workday, I'll whip out my
Palm PDA and get in a couple games of gin rummy, a quick game of chess
or checkers, some nine men's morris, or game that's new for me--Can't
Stop. When I want a change of pace, I'll fire up my Nintendo DS
instead and play Mario Kart or Advance Wars, or maybe Civilization
Revolution.
Right now, I've also got a new-to-me board wargame going--A House
Divided. I'm playing it by e-mail with a guy in New Jersey. So far,
I'm liking it a lot, mainly because it's so simple and
straightforward. It's abstract, and it doesn't make much pretense of
being realistic or historically accurate or anything. Clearly it's
just a game. Yet at the same time, it's clearly a game about the
American Civil War, and while playing it, one can't help but at least
lightly and occasionally picture the history behind the game.
Simulation is lacking, but players are free to add all the realism
they like in their imagination.
That game is encouraging me to drag another one out--one that has been
sitting in my closet for eight years or so: Battle Cry. It's the
first in Richard Borg's "Command & Colors" series, which is still very
popular. But BC is judged to be the weakest of all the games in that
series. Indeed, I remember it being pretty ludicrous (e.g., infantry
can fire as far as artillery). But now that I've changed my attitude,
I'm no longer looking for simulational value. Hence, maybe BC would
turn out to be a satisfying game after all. I should give it another
chance. (There are also some variants I can try out.)
Meanwhile, I find myself drawn to traditional card and board games
again. The more games I sample, the more appreciation I have for the
classics.
One I've just started playing again is cribbage. I can't seem to beat
the computer program I have, even on a moderate setting. But it's a
nice game, with just the right balance of luck and skill for my
taste. Backgammon is another.
I've also gotten back into dominoes (again, on the computer). Most
people seem to be dismissive of dominoes, regarding it as something
for kids or old folks--or as a set of toys to just set up and knock
down. But there are some fun, fast-paced, challenging games that can
be played with a set of dominoes. And I haven't even tried the latest
fads (e.g., Mexican Train and Chickenfoot).
Funny--dominoes is a game I first played as a child. Now I'm back to
it again, enjoying it more than ever. Some old things do endure,
though many others go by the wayside.
I'd believed in the concept of a "consim"--a serious attempt to model
battles and such in the form of games. I wanted to believe playing a
wargame was as good as reading a history book, educationally
speaking. But while immersed in an Advanced Squad Leader scenario in
1995, it hit me that really the game has a lot more in common with
chess than with the combat events being portrayed. As someone put it
recently, it's like the scene in The Wizard of Oz, where Dorothy is
told to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
Since then, I've made some mostly abortive attempts to get back into
wargaming. But it's just not the same anymore. And for the first
time, I'm coming to terms with that: it's never going to be the same
as it was, and that's OK.
Furthermore, I'm probably not remembering things just right. So it's
possible that things never were the way I think they were. And that's
OK too.
The point isn't what *was* anyway; it's what *is.*
I usually don't like reality checks. Reality never measures up to the
way I'd like things to be, or even the way I imagine them to be. But
still, reality has one big thing going for it: it's real.
What's real for me is that I play games with others so rarely that
it's an insignificant part of my life. For all my fond memories and
such, the games I own just sit and gather dust for months on end
before one of them ever gets pulled out and used. And then we play it
just once or twice before it's back on the shelf again for at least
several months more.
However, I do play games by myself almost every day--mostly on a
computer or console. At home, I'll put on some music, kick my feet
up, and play on the PC. At lunchtime on a workday, I'll whip out my
Palm PDA and get in a couple games of gin rummy, a quick game of chess
or checkers, some nine men's morris, or game that's new for me--Can't
Stop. When I want a change of pace, I'll fire up my Nintendo DS
instead and play Mario Kart or Advance Wars, or maybe Civilization
Revolution.
Right now, I've also got a new-to-me board wargame going--A House
Divided. I'm playing it by e-mail with a guy in New Jersey. So far,
I'm liking it a lot, mainly because it's so simple and
straightforward. It's abstract, and it doesn't make much pretense of
being realistic or historically accurate or anything. Clearly it's
just a game. Yet at the same time, it's clearly a game about the
American Civil War, and while playing it, one can't help but at least
lightly and occasionally picture the history behind the game.
Simulation is lacking, but players are free to add all the realism
they like in their imagination.
That game is encouraging me to drag another one out--one that has been
sitting in my closet for eight years or so: Battle Cry. It's the
first in Richard Borg's "Command & Colors" series, which is still very
popular. But BC is judged to be the weakest of all the games in that
series. Indeed, I remember it being pretty ludicrous (e.g., infantry
can fire as far as artillery). But now that I've changed my attitude,
I'm no longer looking for simulational value. Hence, maybe BC would
turn out to be a satisfying game after all. I should give it another
chance. (There are also some variants I can try out.)
Meanwhile, I find myself drawn to traditional card and board games
again. The more games I sample, the more appreciation I have for the
classics.
One I've just started playing again is cribbage. I can't seem to beat
the computer program I have, even on a moderate setting. But it's a
nice game, with just the right balance of luck and skill for my
taste. Backgammon is another.
I've also gotten back into dominoes (again, on the computer). Most
people seem to be dismissive of dominoes, regarding it as something
for kids or old folks--or as a set of toys to just set up and knock
down. But there are some fun, fast-paced, challenging games that can
be played with a set of dominoes. And I haven't even tried the latest
fads (e.g., Mexican Train and Chickenfoot).
Funny--dominoes is a game I first played as a child. Now I'm back to
it again, enjoying it more than ever. Some old things do endure,
though many others go by the wayside.
Sukunai
Apr 16, 2009, 11:05:00 PM4/16/09
to Thinking about Games
Hehe it wouldn't be unfair to say that Patrick and myself are in some
ways broken records skipping :)
I share a lot of what Patrick was saying. Maybe some of my past is
rosier than I recall, then again maybe not. Hard to reeeeally remember
something from the 70s these days.
Patrick and I both have a past with Squad Leader. Right now, I am
thinking of 'unwriting' the manual and doing something to back date
all the components that have been released since GI Anvil of Victory.
I don't hate ASL so much as it's just too damn much work to play it. I
fell in love with Squad Leader damn it, and the first scenario was a
scant 7 pages of rules, likely only 3 if you remove all but the text.
I really just want to pla Squad Leader even if the damn game isn't 'as
accurate'.
Who the hell ever made it law that realism was so damned valuable in
the first place?
Why exactly must a game be the real thing really?
You want the real thing, the real real thing? Why?
The real thing recently was a news item of how Trooper Karine Blais,
21, died Monday in a roadside bomb explosion northwest of Kandahar
City.
She was one of Canada's Vandoos, our French Canadian regiment. She was
infantry, and she was a mere 5' nothing much. Can you imagine her in
basic training having to be able to carry a full grown male?
Real is something that is all death, destruction and loss of life.
No, I just want my quasi historical amusements to be about what might
have happened if I had been in control of the decisions.
But you can keep the realism thanks. I was in uniform, and reality was
plenty real to make me plenty glad I never got to be placed in harms
way. I was in uniform in the days when the Soviets were still scary.
Not that Iraq or Afghanistan isn't.
Squad Leader is just pieces of cardboard, and that's ok.
Patrick says it's like Chess. He's right in limited ways. Chess is
just about moving pieces around on a structured terrain. So isn't
Squad Leader.
Squad Leader is a very good way of seeing what it might have been like
in WW2 at the squad level.
But it has limits.
There's no incredible cold outside of Moscow, no sitting on the
beaches of Dunkirk, no sweltering heat of an Pacific jungle.
There's no never forget it smell of burning flesh or screaming of the
dying.
It's just card board in an abstracted simulation of the combat. And
when the cardboard dies, it not really the same.
To be fun, for me to enjoy it, it has to be easy. Easy is fun. Hard
and tedious is not fun.
So all the games out there that have a bug up their collective asses
for ultimate realism are likely missing the most important detail of
all.
Is it any damned fun really?
For those wanting to play ASL instead of bland boring more simple
Squad Leader, chances are you would be better served playing the
computer wargame Steel Panthers.
Why?
Well for starters you can get it for free (instead of the averae price
being around 2-3000 bucks US).
It takes no effort at all to learn (in comparison with learning ASL).
It's just as accurate if not more.
Maybe if I succeed with this back dating of Squad Leader, I will
unlock the key to being able to just re enjoy my old favourite more.
Because as much as I want to play ASL, it's always the same, so damn
much more like work.
And the key word with me likely will be for the future 'easy'.
And to that end, I am currently able to say that Slitherine has done a
nice job of working on that.
The grog gamer can now get their title Commander Europe at War on both
the PSP as well as the DS (which I think if awesome).
Patrick, if you want a good hot tip, check into getting yourself a
copy of Commander Europe at War.
You might need to connect with NWS though to find it unless you have a
retailer that's any good.
http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/
That link will take you to their store if you need help locating them.
I don't think it's so much that my wargaming days are over, so much as
I just dont have the energy levels to realistically pursue the monster
games of my youth.
And if I want me to play a wargame, ya gotta keep it simple to learn
and easy play.
Buying War in the Pacific was as wrong a choice as I could hope to
make.
All the power to any wargamer that thinks that game can actually be
rated as 'fun', but I think I will regard them as peculiar instead :)
My current game that I fire up to goof off is Civilization IV.
Yes it is not a totally easy game, but then it is also just so easy to
play as well.
I guess it is that is not easy to end up winning, but so easy to do a
turn and click next.
The other day I sat totally absorbed. Started at noon, ended the next
morning at 5 hehe.
17 friggin hours straight.
More fun playing it with a friend though.
But I have two friends that are plenty happy to be available.
Patrick, the reason Chess is a famous classic, is not that it is
specifically great, it's because it's specifically easy to sit down
and play it.
All your games you mention frequently have no effort to start, and no
effort to play.
It has not required any sort of person to play them either.
They are just that simple to play.
That's what made Squad Leader famous, and that is likely why ASL will
probably not last too much longer.
Because when my age group goes, it likely won't be replaced by new
young fans of a game no one considers acceptable any more.
I can't picture getting a young person excited by ASL.
ways broken records skipping :)
I share a lot of what Patrick was saying. Maybe some of my past is
rosier than I recall, then again maybe not. Hard to reeeeally remember
something from the 70s these days.
Patrick and I both have a past with Squad Leader. Right now, I am
thinking of 'unwriting' the manual and doing something to back date
all the components that have been released since GI Anvil of Victory.
I don't hate ASL so much as it's just too damn much work to play it. I
fell in love with Squad Leader damn it, and the first scenario was a
scant 7 pages of rules, likely only 3 if you remove all but the text.
I really just want to pla Squad Leader even if the damn game isn't 'as
accurate'.
Who the hell ever made it law that realism was so damned valuable in
the first place?
Why exactly must a game be the real thing really?
You want the real thing, the real real thing? Why?
The real thing recently was a news item of how Trooper Karine Blais,
21, died Monday in a roadside bomb explosion northwest of Kandahar
City.
She was one of Canada's Vandoos, our French Canadian regiment. She was
infantry, and she was a mere 5' nothing much. Can you imagine her in
basic training having to be able to carry a full grown male?
Real is something that is all death, destruction and loss of life.
No, I just want my quasi historical amusements to be about what might
have happened if I had been in control of the decisions.
But you can keep the realism thanks. I was in uniform, and reality was
plenty real to make me plenty glad I never got to be placed in harms
way. I was in uniform in the days when the Soviets were still scary.
Not that Iraq or Afghanistan isn't.
Squad Leader is just pieces of cardboard, and that's ok.
Patrick says it's like Chess. He's right in limited ways. Chess is
just about moving pieces around on a structured terrain. So isn't
Squad Leader.
Squad Leader is a very good way of seeing what it might have been like
in WW2 at the squad level.
But it has limits.
There's no incredible cold outside of Moscow, no sitting on the
beaches of Dunkirk, no sweltering heat of an Pacific jungle.
There's no never forget it smell of burning flesh or screaming of the
dying.
It's just card board in an abstracted simulation of the combat. And
when the cardboard dies, it not really the same.
To be fun, for me to enjoy it, it has to be easy. Easy is fun. Hard
and tedious is not fun.
So all the games out there that have a bug up their collective asses
for ultimate realism are likely missing the most important detail of
all.
Is it any damned fun really?
For those wanting to play ASL instead of bland boring more simple
Squad Leader, chances are you would be better served playing the
computer wargame Steel Panthers.
Why?
Well for starters you can get it for free (instead of the averae price
being around 2-3000 bucks US).
It takes no effort at all to learn (in comparison with learning ASL).
It's just as accurate if not more.
Maybe if I succeed with this back dating of Squad Leader, I will
unlock the key to being able to just re enjoy my old favourite more.
Because as much as I want to play ASL, it's always the same, so damn
much more like work.
And the key word with me likely will be for the future 'easy'.
And to that end, I am currently able to say that Slitherine has done a
nice job of working on that.
The grog gamer can now get their title Commander Europe at War on both
the PSP as well as the DS (which I think if awesome).
Patrick, if you want a good hot tip, check into getting yourself a
copy of Commander Europe at War.
You might need to connect with NWS though to find it unless you have a
retailer that's any good.
http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/
That link will take you to their store if you need help locating them.
I don't think it's so much that my wargaming days are over, so much as
I just dont have the energy levels to realistically pursue the monster
games of my youth.
And if I want me to play a wargame, ya gotta keep it simple to learn
and easy play.
Buying War in the Pacific was as wrong a choice as I could hope to
make.
All the power to any wargamer that thinks that game can actually be
rated as 'fun', but I think I will regard them as peculiar instead :)
My current game that I fire up to goof off is Civilization IV.
Yes it is not a totally easy game, but then it is also just so easy to
play as well.
I guess it is that is not easy to end up winning, but so easy to do a
turn and click next.
The other day I sat totally absorbed. Started at noon, ended the next
morning at 5 hehe.
17 friggin hours straight.
More fun playing it with a friend though.
But I have two friends that are plenty happy to be available.
Patrick, the reason Chess is a famous classic, is not that it is
specifically great, it's because it's specifically easy to sit down
and play it.
All your games you mention frequently have no effort to start, and no
effort to play.
It has not required any sort of person to play them either.
They are just that simple to play.
That's what made Squad Leader famous, and that is likely why ASL will
probably not last too much longer.
Because when my age group goes, it likely won't be replaced by new
young fans of a game no one considers acceptable any more.
I can't picture getting a young person excited by ASL.
Patrick
Apr 19, 2009, 5:01:09 PM4/19/09
to Thinking about Games
On Apr 16, 10:05 pm, Sukunai <sukunai.ni.y...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I can't picture getting a young person excited by ASL.
Some still do, though. Over at www.boardgamegeek.com, there always
> I can't picture getting a young person excited by ASL.
seems to be some newcomer to wargaming who wants to sample ASL. And
the current publisher has three "starter kits" to lure people in.
If you want to simplify ASL back to something playable, I've heard
"Retro" is very good. It sounds like a sort of "system overlay" which
takes any complicated tactical wargame and transforms it into
something simple and playable. You can read about it at:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/15081
--Patrick
PS Yeah, I keep catching myself sounding like a broken record.
Sukunai
Apr 19, 2009, 5:35:17 PM4/19/09
to Thinking about Games
I've seen Retro before. Nah, I'm thinking of a total wade through the
combined SL/CoI/CoC/GIAnvil manuals, then I plan to rape pillage and
steal from ASL while brutally weeding out all the anal unwanted
excesses of over abuse of obsession to detail.
Not sure if it is possible. But if I manage it, I plan to release the
text file to anyone that wants it. And no, I don't give a shit what
MMP would think about it. Haven't cared much about what they think
about anything for a good while now actually.
The Starters, they might have been a good idea in 1995. In 2005 they
were more a product for obsessed with anything wearing the ASL logo on
it. Most of the starters never make into the hands of the newbie.
Kinda rwally silly in so many ways.
Now I can see newcomers being intrigued by ASL and the Starters. Odds
are my concept will end up looking like a game that is more or less a
Starter version of the entire game. Granted, I have all the modules,
and I can play with a piece from something like WoA and just ignore
any data that doesn't savvy with my revisions.
The weakness of ASL, is you either buy ASL, or you get squat. You can
buy the three Starters and just consider them a full game too I guess.
And that's the ultimate statement too. That the game is ok as 3 mini
games, but the full game is just more expense than worth it. But I
don't have access to numbers. I do know though, that at 47, my wants
are increasingly not relevant due to the limitations age is telling me
to accept whether I like it or not. Some day I will just plain join a
lot of very old wargamers too old to do bugger all to encourage new
kids to play the game. I don't think ASL is going to deal well without
it's veterans not being in the equation.
I give myself maybe 3-5 years before my desire to rebuild ASL into a
better Squad Leader loses any charm. I don't think I will be able to
pursue some of my hobbies forever.
combined SL/CoI/CoC/GIAnvil manuals, then I plan to rape pillage and
steal from ASL while brutally weeding out all the anal unwanted
excesses of over abuse of obsession to detail.
Not sure if it is possible. But if I manage it, I plan to release the
text file to anyone that wants it. And no, I don't give a shit what
MMP would think about it. Haven't cared much about what they think
about anything for a good while now actually.
The Starters, they might have been a good idea in 1995. In 2005 they
were more a product for obsessed with anything wearing the ASL logo on
it. Most of the starters never make into the hands of the newbie.
Kinda rwally silly in so many ways.
Now I can see newcomers being intrigued by ASL and the Starters. Odds
are my concept will end up looking like a game that is more or less a
Starter version of the entire game. Granted, I have all the modules,
and I can play with a piece from something like WoA and just ignore
any data that doesn't savvy with my revisions.
The weakness of ASL, is you either buy ASL, or you get squat. You can
buy the three Starters and just consider them a full game too I guess.
And that's the ultimate statement too. That the game is ok as 3 mini
games, but the full game is just more expense than worth it. But I
don't have access to numbers. I do know though, that at 47, my wants
are increasingly not relevant due to the limitations age is telling me
to accept whether I like it or not. Some day I will just plain join a
lot of very old wargamers too old to do bugger all to encourage new
kids to play the game. I don't think ASL is going to deal well without
it's veterans not being in the equation.
I give myself maybe 3-5 years before my desire to rebuild ASL into a
better Squad Leader loses any charm. I don't think I will be able to
pursue some of my hobbies forever.
pelle
Apr 20, 2009, 1:57:06 AM4/20/09
to Thinking about Games
Hello,
On Apr 19, 11:35 pm, Sukunai <sukunai.ni.y...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Starters, they might have been a good idea in 1995. In 2005 they
> were more a product for obsessed with anything wearing the ASL logo on
> it.
I think the ASLSK#1 is great. #2 looks fun as well. I haven't punched
my copy of #3 yet, or read the rules, so I can't comment on that. I
also enjoy playing small, simple, preferably infantry-only ASL
scenarios and own a bunch of modules, but I'm not really an ASL
player.
> I give myself maybe 3-5 years before my desire to rebuild ASL into a
> better Squad Leader loses any charm. I don't think I will be able to
> pursue some of my hobbies forever.
That's what usually happens to my projects. I lose interest way before
anything is completed. One of the few exceptions will be the Trenches
of Valor game on trench raids that I designed for Victory Point Games
(look it up on CSW!) that is a very very very simple little tactical
wargame system. It wouldn't really do as anything like an ASL
replacement...
I got a copy of the first part of Retro in the Panzerschreck Anthology
last year. I don't remember any details, but I remember not being very
impressed. Maybe some day I can read it again and write a short
review.
Overall I don't think ASL is a good starting point to make a new
("modern") simpler game. The only reason I see to do that would be to
make something compatible with all their maps and counters, but I'm
not sure it's worth it. You'll have to ignore most terrain features
and most of the data on the counters anyway and I don't think I would
like the experience of that. Maybe that was my main problem with
Retro.
I think it would be much more interesting to do something more modern.
Fields of Fire has been a great inspiration to me, showing that you
can do a tactical game using almost none of the old SL tricks. Also a
game from Minden Games that I don't remember the name of now (some
tactical solitaire ACW game) was very interesting to play. Both have
this idea of "volume of fire". I started a thread about that on BGG a
few months ago. It is a great time-saver and complexity-saver, that
instead of resolving individual fire attacks and coming up with
complex rules on defensive fire you just say "ok, this unit is moving
close to that mg; got to roll a die then and see what happens to
it" (of course in Fields of Fire it's a lot more complex than that,
but the time-saving part is obvious, and it's really cool to have to
send out orders to get your units to cease or shift fire, and also
have the option to get them to concentrate fire on a particular
target, while not having to micro-manage everything like in ASL).
Focusing on movement (and control & control) instead of fire seems
like the proper thing to do in a tactical game anyway.
Also a few days ago I tried to start a new thread on BGG about
"delayed combat results". Not something for an ASL replacement
perhaps, but I still think it may be a good thing to use in the
somewhat higher-level ww1 game I have been working on now and then for
a long time. The idea is to speed up the game even more by removing
all die rolls, instead just automatically put a "possible loss" marker
below each unit that moves within LOS from enemy units, then at some
later point (ie when the unit gets involved in close combat) you
actually pick up the dice and figure out how badly hurt it is. The
more I think of it the better it gets, especially since you get a nice
simulation of double-sided fog of war (ie you don't know for sure
which of your own units are still really alive and which ones are
almost eliminated). You really need to speed things up if you want to
have a simple game that can still in a short time play out huge
numbers of units assaulting in waves across open ground within LOS of
a large number of enemy units. The old defensive fire mechanic don't
scale very well.
Anyway, it's all just planned for some free download as well. I don't
expect to be able to sell it to any publisher, and that's not really a
requirement. If it turns out to be too weird at least no one will have
to waste any money to find out. :)
On Apr 19, 11:35 pm, Sukunai <sukunai.ni.y...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Starters, they might have been a good idea in 1995. In 2005 they
> were more a product for obsessed with anything wearing the ASL logo on
> it.
my copy of #3 yet, or read the rules, so I can't comment on that. I
also enjoy playing small, simple, preferably infantry-only ASL
scenarios and own a bunch of modules, but I'm not really an ASL
player.
> I give myself maybe 3-5 years before my desire to rebuild ASL into a
> better Squad Leader loses any charm. I don't think I will be able to
> pursue some of my hobbies forever.
anything is completed. One of the few exceptions will be the Trenches
of Valor game on trench raids that I designed for Victory Point Games
(look it up on CSW!) that is a very very very simple little tactical
wargame system. It wouldn't really do as anything like an ASL
replacement...
I got a copy of the first part of Retro in the Panzerschreck Anthology
last year. I don't remember any details, but I remember not being very
impressed. Maybe some day I can read it again and write a short
review.
Overall I don't think ASL is a good starting point to make a new
("modern") simpler game. The only reason I see to do that would be to
make something compatible with all their maps and counters, but I'm
not sure it's worth it. You'll have to ignore most terrain features
and most of the data on the counters anyway and I don't think I would
like the experience of that. Maybe that was my main problem with
Retro.
I think it would be much more interesting to do something more modern.
Fields of Fire has been a great inspiration to me, showing that you
can do a tactical game using almost none of the old SL tricks. Also a
game from Minden Games that I don't remember the name of now (some
tactical solitaire ACW game) was very interesting to play. Both have
this idea of "volume of fire". I started a thread about that on BGG a
few months ago. It is a great time-saver and complexity-saver, that
instead of resolving individual fire attacks and coming up with
complex rules on defensive fire you just say "ok, this unit is moving
close to that mg; got to roll a die then and see what happens to
it" (of course in Fields of Fire it's a lot more complex than that,
but the time-saving part is obvious, and it's really cool to have to
send out orders to get your units to cease or shift fire, and also
have the option to get them to concentrate fire on a particular
target, while not having to micro-manage everything like in ASL).
Focusing on movement (and control & control) instead of fire seems
like the proper thing to do in a tactical game anyway.
Also a few days ago I tried to start a new thread on BGG about
"delayed combat results". Not something for an ASL replacement
perhaps, but I still think it may be a good thing to use in the
somewhat higher-level ww1 game I have been working on now and then for
a long time. The idea is to speed up the game even more by removing
all die rolls, instead just automatically put a "possible loss" marker
below each unit that moves within LOS from enemy units, then at some
later point (ie when the unit gets involved in close combat) you
actually pick up the dice and figure out how badly hurt it is. The
more I think of it the better it gets, especially since you get a nice
simulation of double-sided fog of war (ie you don't know for sure
which of your own units are still really alive and which ones are
almost eliminated). You really need to speed things up if you want to
have a simple game that can still in a short time play out huge
numbers of units assaulting in waves across open ground within LOS of
a large number of enemy units. The old defensive fire mechanic don't
scale very well.
Anyway, it's all just planned for some free download as well. I don't
expect to be able to sell it to any publisher, and that's not really a
requirement. If it turns out to be too weird at least no one will have
to waste any money to find out. :)
Sukunai
Apr 20, 2009, 1:15:11 PM4/20/09
to Thinking about Games
In a perfect world. The board game ASL has all the unknowns of Up
Front.
But then, you end up wondering if that is actually why they made Up
Front as well.
Maybe I just need to make a great deal more Up Front cards for all the
vehicles/ordnance that never made it.
Front.
But then, you end up wondering if that is actually why they made Up
Front as well.
Maybe I just need to make a great deal more Up Front cards for all the
vehicles/ordnance that never made it.
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