Idea: Cracked Muggle challenges
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Dave
Jul 25, 2008, 12:03:46 AM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
Josh and I had the idea of creating a series of challenges here on The
Cracked Muggle. SIYE's challenges are entertaining, but in many ways
they're more like prompts for exploration rather than actual
challenging exercises to authors or to readers. Also, the more
challenging a story becomes to write, the less likely it is to fit on
SIYE or a similar site. As an example, internal monologues would not
fit on a shipping site unless they are from the perspective of a
member of the site’s primary couple or couples. Hopefully that makes
sense.
For a long time, we have toyed with the idea of actual writing
challenges: prompts that require the writer to work at something in
relation to writing, rather than just being creative about arranging
plot elements. This does not mean that we would ignore good plot
elements, but the focus would be on writing. One prompt might ask
people to explore inner monologue from an interesting point of view,
another might focus on dialog, and so forth. Some challenges may also
come with mechanical restrictions: no use of the semicolon, or no use
of betas, or that every sentence must be alliterative to the first
word, or perhaps that the use of the letters ‘q’ and ‘z’ is forbidden.
We would seek a wide variety in the prompts, but the idea would be to
present something that is actually challenging to write (or read) for
whatever reason. There is not yet a particular word limit in mind, but
any limit would (usually) be relatively short and absolute. Stories
would be posted as topics on the Group, and reviews would occur in
responses to that topic. Any ‘shipping’ in a story (if such is even
applicable) would be expected to follow either the proper canon-
timeframe for the characters or else the final outcome dictated by
JKR. Note that non-canon supplementary material (movies, games,
interviews, anything not in one of the seven primary published books)
would be considered entirely optional.
Good mechanics would be a basic requirement for the challenge.
Spelling, punctuation, and grammar would have to be very solid in
order for the story to be considered. This is not meant to exclude
anyone; rather, the things we want to focus on are somewhat more
advanced topics, and those topics cannot really happen without the
very basics of writing well in hand. That said, anal-retentiveness is
not necessary, as we all make mistakes – but we do not all make
mistakes on every other word.
Judges for the challenge would be respected authors and highly
effective reviewers. Again, this is not meant to exclude anyone, but
it seems only reasonable that the judges for advanced writing skills
be people who have demonstrated some familiarity with those skills,
either as authors or reviewers. We have all seen reviews that amount
to ‘squee!’ or ‘this sucks’ without saying anything of merit. We have
also seen more substantial reviews that go into depth regarding
thematic elements, mechanics, and more. Examples abound at various
fanfic sites of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ reviews. Those ‘good’ reviewers are
well qualified to judge the challenge stories even if they are not
authors themselves.
Each judge would be required to leave a substantive review for each
story. This review would provide real feedback regarding mechanics,
the topic, and expanding on ideas in the work at hand. No judge in a
given challenge would be permitted to submit a story in that challenge
or beta someone else’s submission.
Tentatively, the thinking is that there would be only two awards.
First would be a judges’ pick: the story the judges decided is the
best of the submissions. Second would be a readers’ pick: through a
simple poll, members of the group would be able to vote for their
favourite of the submissions, and the story with the most votes wins.
We might add other award categories depending on the challenge and how
well this system is received in general. If there are two major
writing elements in a challenge, then there could be an award for
each. It might also be fun to have awards for creative interpretation
of the prompt, but that might just complicate the main issue.
Would anyone be interested in participating in such a challenge? It
could be monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, or just whenever we feel like
posting one. It would be open to anyone who cares to join the group,
even if they join solely for the purpose of entering the challenge.
Also, we would encourage everyone to share the challenge and/or
submissions as much or as little as desired. New authors and readers
would always be welcome.
We are presently thinking of posting a challenge on August 1,
providing a month for writing, and then having the judging take place
in September. Does anyone want to share any thoughts on the idea?
Cracked Muggle. SIYE's challenges are entertaining, but in many ways
they're more like prompts for exploration rather than actual
challenging exercises to authors or to readers. Also, the more
challenging a story becomes to write, the less likely it is to fit on
SIYE or a similar site. As an example, internal monologues would not
fit on a shipping site unless they are from the perspective of a
member of the site’s primary couple or couples. Hopefully that makes
sense.
For a long time, we have toyed with the idea of actual writing
challenges: prompts that require the writer to work at something in
relation to writing, rather than just being creative about arranging
plot elements. This does not mean that we would ignore good plot
elements, but the focus would be on writing. One prompt might ask
people to explore inner monologue from an interesting point of view,
another might focus on dialog, and so forth. Some challenges may also
come with mechanical restrictions: no use of the semicolon, or no use
of betas, or that every sentence must be alliterative to the first
word, or perhaps that the use of the letters ‘q’ and ‘z’ is forbidden.
We would seek a wide variety in the prompts, but the idea would be to
present something that is actually challenging to write (or read) for
whatever reason. There is not yet a particular word limit in mind, but
any limit would (usually) be relatively short and absolute. Stories
would be posted as topics on the Group, and reviews would occur in
responses to that topic. Any ‘shipping’ in a story (if such is even
applicable) would be expected to follow either the proper canon-
timeframe for the characters or else the final outcome dictated by
JKR. Note that non-canon supplementary material (movies, games,
interviews, anything not in one of the seven primary published books)
would be considered entirely optional.
Good mechanics would be a basic requirement for the challenge.
Spelling, punctuation, and grammar would have to be very solid in
order for the story to be considered. This is not meant to exclude
anyone; rather, the things we want to focus on are somewhat more
advanced topics, and those topics cannot really happen without the
very basics of writing well in hand. That said, anal-retentiveness is
not necessary, as we all make mistakes – but we do not all make
mistakes on every other word.
Judges for the challenge would be respected authors and highly
effective reviewers. Again, this is not meant to exclude anyone, but
it seems only reasonable that the judges for advanced writing skills
be people who have demonstrated some familiarity with those skills,
either as authors or reviewers. We have all seen reviews that amount
to ‘squee!’ or ‘this sucks’ without saying anything of merit. We have
also seen more substantial reviews that go into depth regarding
thematic elements, mechanics, and more. Examples abound at various
fanfic sites of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ reviews. Those ‘good’ reviewers are
well qualified to judge the challenge stories even if they are not
authors themselves.
Each judge would be required to leave a substantive review for each
story. This review would provide real feedback regarding mechanics,
the topic, and expanding on ideas in the work at hand. No judge in a
given challenge would be permitted to submit a story in that challenge
or beta someone else’s submission.
Tentatively, the thinking is that there would be only two awards.
First would be a judges’ pick: the story the judges decided is the
best of the submissions. Second would be a readers’ pick: through a
simple poll, members of the group would be able to vote for their
favourite of the submissions, and the story with the most votes wins.
We might add other award categories depending on the challenge and how
well this system is received in general. If there are two major
writing elements in a challenge, then there could be an award for
each. It might also be fun to have awards for creative interpretation
of the prompt, but that might just complicate the main issue.
Would anyone be interested in participating in such a challenge? It
could be monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, or just whenever we feel like
posting one. It would be open to anyone who cares to join the group,
even if they join solely for the purpose of entering the challenge.
Also, we would encourage everyone to share the challenge and/or
submissions as much or as little as desired. New authors and readers
would always be welcome.
We are presently thinking of posting a challenge on August 1,
providing a month for writing, and then having the judging take place
in September. Does anyone want to share any thoughts on the idea?
Chris Marshall
Jul 25, 2008, 1:35:39 AM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
Sounds interesting... Not sure if I would enter would really depend on the
challenge at the time and whether I think I could write something that would
be worth publishing, but I would definetly check each one out and think
about it.
challenge at the time and whether I think I could write something that would
be worth publishing, but I would definetly check each one out and think
about it.
Chris
That said, anal-retentiveness is not necessary, as we all make mistakes -
Phil Boswell
Jul 25, 2008, 6:42:46 AM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
On Jul 25, 5:03 am, Dave <Sovra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good mechanics would be a basic requirement for the challenge.
> Spelling, punctuation, and grammar would have to be very solid in
> order for the story to be considered. This is not meant to exclude
> anyone; rather, the things we want to focus on are somewhat more
> advanced topics, and those topics cannot really happen without the
> very basics of writing well in hand. That said, anal-retentiveness is
> not necessary, as we all make mistakes – but we do not all make
> mistakes on every other word.
One of the "mechanical restrictions" I would like to see people play
> Good mechanics would be a basic requirement for the challenge.
> Spelling, punctuation, and grammar would have to be very solid in
> order for the story to be considered. This is not meant to exclude
> anyone; rather, the things we want to focus on are somewhat more
> advanced topics, and those topics cannot really happen without the
> very basics of writing well in hand. That said, anal-retentiveness is
> not necessary, as we all make mistakes – but we do not all make
> mistakes on every other word.
with is phonetic spelling, like Ian M Banks' "Feersum Endjinn", which
would blow chunks through this particular criterion ... in a good way
obviously ;-)
> Would anyone be interested in participating in such a challenge? It
> could be monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, or just whenever we feel like
> posting one. It would be open to anyone who cares to join the group,
> even if they join solely for the purpose of entering the challenge.
> Also, we would encourage everyone to share the challenge and/or
> submissions as much or as little as desired. New authors and readers
> would always be welcome.
this before: I've got a couple of shorts of my own invention and a WIP
cross-over with somebody else's HP-AU (oh, and isn't *that* fun ;-)
which some very kind people have said don't suck too badly, but in
current company I feel like a toddler entering the Olympics.
> We are presently thinking of posting a challenge on August 1,
> providing a month for writing, and then having the judging take place
> in September. Does anyone want to share any thoughts on the idea?
could I suggest that somebody investigate the possibility of using one
or more sub-groups of the main group to hold everything together? I
know it can be done somehow (Google do it extensively in their support
system) I just don't know how. It would also make it easier for email
subscribers to manage the traffic to their inboxes more easily.
I would myself go so far as to suggest a sub-group for each challenge,
so you could keep the stories and related chatter together in one
place, but that's possibly just my CDO[1] breaking out.
HTH HAND
--
Phil
[1] like OCD but with the initials in proper alphabetical order, how
they should be.
melkior
Jul 25, 2008, 7:51:21 AM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
Oh, I'm always up for something that can humiliate me and make me
learn something new along the way.
I can't say I'll participate as an author immediately because I
probably need to see how much time it would take. That being said,
I'll probably end up writing something, just for the fun of it.
I like the idea. Hopefully, I'm still going to like it once the
challenge is posted.
Dino
learn something new along the way.
I can't say I'll participate as an author immediately because I
probably need to see how much time it would take. That being said,
I'll probably end up writing something, just for the fun of it.
I like the idea. Hopefully, I'm still going to like it once the
challenge is posted.
Dino
josh Moshpit
Jul 25, 2008, 2:18:11 PM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
Sub-groups are a good idea. However, see this:
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=76533
Unless you know of something to the contrary . . .?
melkior
Jul 25, 2008, 2:30:41 PM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
Nope, subgroups aren't an option. We do have the pages function, so
why not use them to post the challenges and import the polls (I'm
guessing we can use a 3rd party poll system hosted on their server and
just embed it into the page).
Then the reviews (and further discussion) go around the page.
Third option would be if someone's willing to host a voting/posting
solution on his own server or something, and we only link to that.
Thoughts?
Dino
why not use them to post the challenges and import the polls (I'm
guessing we can use a 3rd party poll system hosted on their server and
just embed it into the page).
Then the reviews (and further discussion) go around the page.
Third option would be if someone's willing to host a voting/posting
solution on his own server or something, and we only link to that.
Thoughts?
Dino
josh Moshpit
Jul 25, 2008, 2:33:08 PM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for volunteering to figure that out :)
Phil Boswell
Jul 25, 2008, 3:27:19 PM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
On Jul 25, 7:30 pm, melkior <dpask...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nope, subgroups aren't an option. We do have the pages function, so
> why not use them to post the challenges and import the polls (I'm
> guessing we can use a 3rd party poll system hosted on their server and
> just embed it into the page).
> Then the reviews (and further discussion) go around the page.
> Third option would be if someone's willing to host a voting/posting
> solution on his own server or something, and we only link to that.
There's a voting template available for a Google Docs Spreadsheet:
> Nope, subgroups aren't an option. We do have the pages function, so
> why not use them to post the challenges and import the polls (I'm
> guessing we can use a 3rd party poll system hosted on their server and
> just embed it into the page).
> Then the reviews (and further discussion) go around the page.
> Third option would be if someone's willing to host a voting/posting
> solution on his own server or something, and we only link to that.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pyU3xkckhpI3Oxq6gYC4NVw&hl=en_GB
If you can see that, it's an interesting method of voting for and
against stuff which could be adapted for a ranking system or really
anything you wanted.
I'd be happy to have a go at setting it up for you if you want to try
it out.
--
Phil
kevin
Jul 25, 2008, 9:47:56 PM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
Dave wrote:
> Josh and I had the idea of creating a series of challenges here on The
> Cracked Muggle. ...> Josh and I had the idea of creating a series of challenges here on The
>
...
> We are presently thinking of posting a challenge on August 1,
> providing a month for writing, and then having the judging take place
> in September. Does anyone want to share any thoughts on the idea?
After giving this some thought, I'm of mixed minds about this. On the
one hand, something to help me improve as a writer sounds nice. On the
other hand, my time is limited and I've already got so much to do (in
the writing arena) as it is, I don't know that I'd have time to take
this on without slowing down my normal stuff.
I suppose the obvious answer is to make the work short, like 1K-5K words
long, sort of a missing moment sized thing, but for some reason, I find
that hard to do. :-) My ideas always want to grow. That's part of why I
never participate in SIYE's challanges, plus the topics they pick rarely
interest me.
Perhaps this idea would be better since it is more writing oriented
instead of story oriented. (shrug) I guess post one and we'll all see
how it goes...
Kevin
Chris Marshall
Jul 25, 2008, 10:16:27 PM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
How about some smaller challenges and some big challenges with a longer time
frame?
frame?
Dave
Jul 25, 2008, 11:07:27 PM7/25/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
In my mind, the stories would all be less than 5k, and perhaps even
shorter than that. That's not a promise or anything, though. Just
the way I personally have imagined them. Josh might have a different
thought.
Dave
> Kevin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
shorter than that. That's not a promise or anything, though. Just
the way I personally have imagined them. Josh might have a different
thought.
Dave
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jonathan Avery
Jul 25, 2008, 11:32:54 PM7/25/08
to thecrack...@googlegroups.com
I like this idea, as both a writer and someone who likes to constructively critique people. It reminds me of writing exercises that I used to do when I was younger, and really should still be doing.
Personally, I would think these challenges would not yield stories so much as moments or glimpses of a larger picture. Even 5000 words would seem too long for most suggestions that I saw earlier in the post. These challenges would seem to be more about forcing authors to write in unfamiliar territory and expand their ability.
I can see many good challenges . . .
Write a piece whose theme is a color. The piece must focus on one color and the emotions and actions associated with that color. Bonus props to the author if the color is never mentioned in the piece other than the title.
Choose any non-student or non-Professor from Hogwarts as the POV and write a short story about something that happens to one of the students or Professors. The student or Professor must be the hero, the narrator is simply the observer.
Retell a Grimm's fairy tale in the HP Universe using several of the main characters.
Choose any HP character and write the intro to a Private Investigator dime-store novel.
and there are so many more. It doesn't have to take time. It should be something that can be done quickly and almost free form. I look forward to the first one.
-Jonathan
Personally, I would think these challenges would not yield stories so much as moments or glimpses of a larger picture. Even 5000 words would seem too long for most suggestions that I saw earlier in the post. These challenges would seem to be more about forcing authors to write in unfamiliar territory and expand their ability.
I can see many good challenges . . .
Write a piece whose theme is a color. The piece must focus on one color and the emotions and actions associated with that color. Bonus props to the author if the color is never mentioned in the piece other than the title.
Choose any non-student or non-Professor from Hogwarts as the POV and write a short story about something that happens to one of the students or Professors. The student or Professor must be the hero, the narrator is simply the observer.
Retell a Grimm's fairy tale in the HP Universe using several of the main characters.
Choose any HP character and write the intro to a Private Investigator dime-store novel.
and there are so many more. It doesn't have to take time. It should be something that can be done quickly and almost free form. I look forward to the first one.
-Jonathan
--
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)
Shev
Jul 26, 2008, 10:05:44 AM7/26/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
I have some un/underused webspace around. I'll take a look into some
options for this sort of thing.
Alastair
options for this sort of thing.
Alastair
Dave
Jul 27, 2008, 11:24:30 PM7/27/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
There seems to be enough interest, so we're going to give it a try.
Thanks for all of the offers of technical assistance. We're currently
beta-testing a pretty nice setup for submitting, reviewing, and voting
for fics. Currently, we expect it to be ready in early August, but
probably not by August 1.
Therefore, I'll post the challenge prompt and parameters on August 1,
but we'll ask you not to submit any stories until the new setup is up
and running.
Dave
Thanks for all of the offers of technical assistance. We're currently
beta-testing a pretty nice setup for submitting, reviewing, and voting
for fics. Currently, we expect it to be ready in early August, but
probably not by August 1.
Therefore, I'll post the challenge prompt and parameters on August 1,
but we'll ask you not to submit any stories until the new setup is up
and running.
Dave
ichtys
Jul 28, 2008, 6:08:25 PM7/28/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
I look forward to see more great stories.
My main concern is that it will "distract" the great authors on this
site from writing on their main stories.
An if I should choose, I prefer the main stories.
However, if this will help making the authors better (and perhaps give
some would-be authors a push), without delaying the main-stories, then
I'm all for it.
Best of luck.
Regards Ichtys
My main concern is that it will "distract" the great authors on this
site from writing on their main stories.
An if I should choose, I prefer the main stories.
However, if this will help making the authors better (and perhaps give
some would-be authors a push), without delaying the main-stories, then
I'm all for it.
Best of luck.
Regards Ichtys
Dave
Jul 28, 2008, 7:19:15 PM7/28/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
I can't speak for everyone, but I don't see this changing my writing
schedule for MoO or anything else. Working on MoO takes more time in
one sitting than something like this would, and I continue to use all
of my large blocks of time to work on MoO.
Dave
> > > in September. Does anyone want to share any thoughts on the idea?- Hide quoted text -
schedule for MoO or anything else. Working on MoO takes more time in
one sitting than something like this would, and I continue to use all
of my large blocks of time to work on MoO.
Dave
melkior
Jul 29, 2008, 7:35:19 AM7/29/08
to TheCrackedMuggle
I have no idea what the challenge will look like, but I don't really
see it taking up my M/CoH writing time. There are other things that
do that.
If anything, I fear that my main stories may distract me from writing
the challenge.
Oh well, I'll make the time.
Dino
see it taking up my M/CoH writing time. There are other things that
do that.
If anything, I fear that my main stories may distract me from writing
the challenge.
Oh well, I'll make the time.
Dino
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