Fluff thresholds

[josh Moshpit]

I find myself curious about the definition of Fluff.  What is fluff?  Is there One True Fluff?  Or is it something weakly defined that no one quite agrees upon?

Before undertaking Socks and Shoes, I demanded clarification from the instigators of the challenge.  After all, it was a truism that I don't write such except in parody or the like.  Thus was part of the framing set:

Moshpit:  Also, I'd like both of you to agree to what it means to be Fluff. 
Moshpit:  Moreover, what fraction of the story must be fluff.

Sovran:  Hmm.  I suppose I'd want to see a proposed definition to agree
Sovran:  or disagree with.  As for the fraction, I think I'd be satisfied if it
Sovran:  was clear that the story was mostly fluff.  51% or more,
Sovran:  technically, though of course that's difficult to quantify.  I just
Sovran:  don't want there to be any question as to what the dominant
Sovran:  genre is.

Melkior:  Well, the general idea of fluff is creating a light romance story
Melkior:  without any angst. It should 'invoke good feelings when being
Melkior:  read'. Or so I'm told.

Sovran:  Hmm.  I'm willing to work with that as a starting point, with the
Sovran:  caveat that 'light' does not necessarily mean frivolous or
Sovran:  meaningless.

Moshpit: Fluff bit moderately accepted but under my terms . . .

Based on reviews, I'd say that many people have a different operational definition of "fluff" in some manner.  So, let's hear it.  How should "fluff" be defined?  Is it possible to have serious fluff, or only empty fluff?  Can fluff be introspective or external?  Can there be fluff without demonstrable acts of a relationship?

Oh, is Pooky a lurker on this forum?  If so, I'd say you attained around an 80% score on your thinking.  You can probably close the gap further if you remember what I said at the end of the Socks: the one-shot Socks was an all-but-required shift in the canon universe to make Shoes work for the purpose of the challenge.  With that in mind, pay attention to the "preferred" version of Socks, and think more about the contrasts between the two.

[Chris P]

To me, fluff is fiction where the focus is a relationship - and there is little to no angst. Fiction that gives Warm and Fuzzy Feelings. :D

Chris

--
The more people I meet the more I like my cat.

[melkior]

At this particular moment, I could consider most things as fluff.
Setting that aside, I'm returning to the definition I mentioned in our
original discussion: "invoke good feelings when being read".

One important detail is that fluff needn't be romantically oriented. A
tale about a child being born into a family can also be fluff. A new
friendship as them can also fall under that category.

Essentially, we're talking about a 'genre' that isn't burdened with
'darker' topics. The use of quotes here points out that I allow
certain arguing-space here.

Now, if we stick with the good feelings and whatnot, then a story
about a bunny running through the woods, doing nothing but throwing
flowers, is fluff when presented to a 4 year old child.

The fluff term depends really about the public.

Now, is "Shoes" fluff?

To a point, yes. And I'm glad it isn't complete and utter fluff, no
matter about the challenge, because it actually gives something more
than just a smile while reading it. It did invoke good feelings, but I
have those when I read Echoes too. So I don't think I'm really
qualified to judge it that way.

Serious fluff? I'd say it's possible as long as you write something
that is generally positive, with neutral parts, and nothing negative
is mentioned. Those aren't really strict restrictions if you know what
you're doing.

Again, is "Shoes" fluff? I really don't know. But it's probably the
closest thing to "fluff" we're going to get out of you. That should
mean something.

Again, I'm biased as the less "fluffy" parts of your fic jump-started
me into something that resulted in personal fluff. So that's that.

[calgary]

OK, I'm a fluff hater. To me its a vapid, silly and very unrealistic
form of romance/relationship. It is used only as a relationship. There
is no such animal without it. Maybe it's like porn. They don't how
to define it, but they knowit when they see it. People that love
fluff are romantics. I'm not.. Just a born cynic. I don't think you
can have serious fluff, because it's empty to begin with.
Demonstrative is the only really easy way to write fluff. Very tough
to imply it and still remain fluff in the eyes of most readers. They
like that demonstrative kind of stuff. I half believe many readers
were put off, because there was no one mooning over the other..Being
introspective defeats fluff. Some authors get away with it because
they add a sense of humor. One particual author does this very well
and I am now a avid reader of her. So to me fluff is exactly what it
is. Something coated without any meat under it...and should not be
taken very seriously. Certainly not a percentage. It's either there
or not there.

[SomeGuyFawkes]

"Fluff" is overloaded and most people would not have thought much
about defining it. Suggest you pick a definition, state it, and
refine as necessary.

My working definition of fluff is "something that requires little
effort to consume". That is, it doesn't make you think too hard or
waddle through a heap of "angst".
For example: "Dukes of Hazard", "Three's Company"**, some
'Rorschach's Blot' stories.

Fluff can be good or bad and is best when it is comedy. Fluff never
REQUIRES the reader to digest new concepts -- it is "safe".

So, by my definition, "Socks" and "Shoes" were not fluff and, alas,
they were not up to your best work.

On May 15, 2:25 pm, "josh Moshpit" <pitm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find myself curious about the definition of Fluff. What is fluff? Is
> there One True Fluff? Or is it something weakly defined that no one quite
> agrees upon?
>

** Can you guess in which era I gave up regular TV watching? ;-)

[SomeGuyFawkes]

PS. So, I agree that you, Josh, are genetically incapable of writing
fluff because your stories all seem to require mental effort to read.
This is not a bad thing.

"Fluff" is really hard to do well and usually works best when there
are multiple meanings for those who choose to look deeper. Oscar
Wilde might be a good example of a fluff master*.


* Multiple meanings, remember? :)

[Malchior]

I generally define fluff as a scene that invokes warm and fuzzy
feelings by people in a relationship or leading up to one. Like in
Fate's Debt in the Chamber of Secrets when Harry and Ginny say, "Your
Harry, My Ginny" "Your Ginny, My Harry". Everytime I read that scene
I just want to smile.

[Kevin]

I think the above is an excellent start. Extreme fluff will make a
sentimental person (a romantic?) go "Awwww" and smile; sorta like a cute
puppy. Someone mentioned not having to think deeply, I think that's also
an element of fluff.

To me, the phrase "serious fluff" is a synonym for "extra fluffy". :-)

All that being said, Josh, I think that if you want a good definition,
you need to talk to Cel. I think she's the master of fluff, or at least
romantic comedy, which is fluff's kissing cousin.

Kevin

[Kezzabear]

Oh gosh I am having flashback to a podcast I recorded a couple months
ago.
"Don't talk about death, we're supposed to be talking about fluff!"
"What is fluff?"
"It's romance."
"Does it have to be?"
"That's the purpose of fluff, to make you feel better."
"Fluff is very very centred on the ship."
"It's a party for the shippers."
"Fluff needs to be built around a relationship, doesn't have to be a
romantic one."
"Is that really fluff though?"
"It has to have a romance."
"What makes it fluff instead of a romance?"
"Romance has got more of a plot."
"Fluff is a small moment."
"Fluff is something to read when you don't want to think about it."
"Why can't you have it without a relationship. Just funny."
"Cos then it's a comedy."
"But two friends."
"Then most people would think it was slash."
"What about a boy and a girl, like Harry and Hermione?"
"Then all the Harmony shippers would read into it."
"Drama is when Ginny throws herself off a cliff."
"As soon as you've got fluff that's not shippy does it become a
comedy?"
"I don't get why fluff has to be romance. I sure you could write a
fluff that isn't."

Yeah we never really decided what fluff was ... ROFLOL

[SomeGuyFawkes]

Bah. If it contains a ship that is significant to the story, it's
Romance.
If it is of little consequence, it is Fluff.

They are completely different properties like density and shape.

[David Wruck]

I'm thinking if the story were made into a movie what would it be? If
it'd be a Life Time movie of the week, then you are talking fluff.

[Jonathan Avery]

As with everything in fanficiton, genres and definitions of various styles are more a personal matter than being able to look a piece up on some mystical periodic table of plot elements. We each bring our own notions and perceptions to the table, as with any art form.

There are some basic precepts that are obvious. Fluff is not going to have the angst of the romantic characters missing each other, having other relationships that get in the way, or involve sado-masochistic plot lines. Dark stories are not going to involve Harry and Voldemort chatting over tea or have Harry kiss his true love to banish the darkness forever.

So, how do I view fluff? Well, for one, I don't view it as a genre unless it applies to a one-shot. And even then, I tend to find a better genre. I find fluff to be an adjective, a descriptor of a scene or a moment. Fluff is that moment in a story when all the conflicts and stresses on the character fade away into the background and a moment in time is created that satisfies a deep craving for contentment and security.

When I read a section that I consider fluff, I return to the feeling I had when I first met my wife.

I was at an event with my friends. Everyone was wearing costumes and the place was loud and filled. I was in a foul mood that night because my ex-girlfriend was there with my ex-friend. I had just decided to head home, so I headed for the stairs.

A woman was walking up the stairs. She had on a goth outfit, tight black leather skirt and bodice with red accents. She wore a pair of lace up boots and fishnet stockings that hugged her legs. Blood red rips and blue-grey eyes with dark-red hair.

We brushed each other as I was descending the stairs and she was walking up them. I stopped after a few steps and glanced back to find her staring at me, still as a statue, half way up the stairs and staring into my eyes as if she were judging me. And then, reaching some unknown conclusion, she smiled a bit. I felt my heart race and my mouth was suddenly filled with sand. I wanted to say something, anything, but I could only give her a quirky half-smile before following her back up the stairs.

But, for me, fluff isn't just romance. It's the contentment of spending time with my niece and nephew. It's the gentle reminder of family get-togethers at White Earth Lake. It is the memory of my late step-mother teaching me to cook.

If a story brings up those emotions, those memories, that comfort of home, love, and family, then I consider it to be fluff.

-Jonathan

--
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)

[V]

Ok so what is fluff...To me fluff is more to describe cute moments or
glimpses into interactions that are sweet. I don't think of fluff as
a genre because by definition it's light and non complicated which
makes plot rather difficult. The only stories I know that are pure
fluff are mostly one shots or glimpses into a life. Of course I
generally thing that this should be true with any emotion really and
that's what fluff is (an emotion) just like Angst though that's easier
to pull into multiple chapter stories because you can create a lot of
plot and character development from it (even though I find Angst!
stories to be rather exhausting if that's all they are.) There is
fluff in MoO with all the cute moments between Harry and Ginny but MoO
itself isn't fluff nor is it angst....it simply is. Tragedy, Comedy,
Romance blah blah, those are genres. You could say the BunBun story
is fluff....not romantic but mainly exists to make you smile and feel
good (it could fit as comedy to but to me there is a difference
between comedy and humor just like angst and tragedy). Not sure if
that's really clear though. I suppose to me fluff, angst, humor etc
are all really just distillations of Romance, Angst, and Comedy down
to their rather less complex emotional components, because a good
Romance, Tragedy or Comedy will have all three.

[V]

Doh, It should have read : I suppose to me fluff, angst, humor etc
> are all really just distillations of Romance, TRAGEDY, and Comedy down

> to their rather less complex emotional components, because a good
> Romance, Tragedy or Comedy will have all three.