Thoughts on a DM7 for regional theatre

[Mark V]

I work at a LORT regional theatre, and I'm hoping to upgrade our house console. One very achievable option would be a used CL3 or QL5, both of which we commonly rent to do small to medium sized musicals (Anywhere from 4-20 channels of RF, and a 4-8 piece band). One of those consoles would fill our needs nicely for *almost* all the shows we do. 

I've spent a couple hours at a shop on a DM7EX with the Theatre Package, and it seems great. Who out there has real-world experience designing or mixing a musical on one? Any thoughts on this console, especially as compared to a CL, would be most welcome! 

The asterisk here is that every 3-4 years we do an "enhanced" musical - it comes to us with commercial backing and Broadway designers. In the spring we will be having one - it's 12 actors and an 8 piece band, so not huge. I've been told we haven't hired a sound designer yet - maybe it'll be one of you? - so I can't reach out to them directly. 

So, if you're a Broadway-level musical theatre designer, and accepted a job that roughly fit this description, how would you feel about the venue insisting that you use their DM7EX? It's obviously got the capacity to handle a show of this size, but would it be a deal breaker for you to not be able to rent a Digico or some other console more common to Broadway? We'd have to use some of the sound rental budget for that show to make up a chunk of the difference between a CL and a DM7, so if we purchased the latter for the house, we would have to insist it be used for our enhanced shows. I know that's not really enough information, but again, any thoughts are welcome. 

Thanks!

Mark

[Seablade -]

Not a LORT theater here, but I am the production manager for a larger road house and have another producing space down the road with opera, theater, etc. in it.  We are currently in the planning stages of a system upgrade in that other space, and I will say a DM7 is a great fit for that space due to a variety of reasons.  We don't do enough produced musicals to justify the theater package there, but I also teach at a local uni and am putting a DM7 in a new space being built there with the theater package for that reason.  Using CL consoles in all venues currently, and using Theatermix software when I am doing produced musicals on them.

In terms of the CL, it is the 'second' console I see a broadway tours on, meaning if they don't run a Digico I will see a CL consoles instead, even without great theater programming software on it.  It still is powerful enough to do the job, and the DM7 is just stepping up there, so I would only worry so much on it myself.

       Thomas Vecchione

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[Nat Koren]

Thomas, I am Head Sound at a Broadway roadhouse, and I must disagree with you about seeing CLs on Broadway tours.  

Only twice in the last few years have I seen a Yamaha on a B’way tour: a PM7 Rivage on Pretty Woman, and a QL1 for the current tour of Clue - straight play, small cast, no band.  And very funny.

Roughly 80% of the tours that come through are on Digico, mostly SD7, a few on SD10.  If it’s a Gareth Owen show, it’s an Avid S6L.  Kai Harada specs older Studer Vistas for all his shows.  I’ve heard that Masque keeps a fleet of them just for Kai, awesome dude that he is.

About the DM7 - a colleague who mixes the local symphony told me it’s his new favorite board.  Not musical theater, but he attests to the sound quality.

cheers,

Nat Koren

Head Sound Engineer

France-Merrick Performing Arts Center

 yHippodrome Theatre

 x M&T Bank Exchange Theater

      Baltimore, MD

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[Seablade -]

Yea I am not saying Digico still doesn't rule the roost, it definitely does.  But is definitely seems to have more competition, and especially for those tours that don't have the money for the digico, the CL5 seems to be the goto in my experience.  I have seen a couple of rivages out as well in the past few years.  Go back when I was head audio here and I wouldn't see CLs or Rivages, it was almost entirely Digico, took a few years after it's introduction for me to see the first Rivage on tour, but the past few years out of the couple dozen broadway tours that have come through probably a half dozen on Yammies of one sort or another.  All anecdotal of course, I didn't really keep track, but that was generally what I saw.

I haven't had many come through on an Avid though, maybe I just haven't had a lot of Gareth's tours come through, not sure.

And yea the time I have gotten on a DM7 have really impressed me, though I haven't worked with the theater software yet.  Looking forward to having one to play around with before to long honestly.  And the price point of it depending on the size needed would replace where I currently have QL and CL consoles both.  (DM7 Compact replacing QLs and full size replacing the CL5s I have ideally, not that I see that happening any time soon other than what I already mentioned).

      Thomas

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[Justin Stasiw]

Hey, I can only really reply for me as a designer who designs/associates quite a bit regionally and on broadway- and for me personally the DM7 would be a hard sell- They sound good, and are reliable- but much of the structure of how I work on a show is based around the cueing structure that the digico T series (and to some extent the avid) allows. And I certainly then wouldn't be able to transfer any of the programming if the show was going to move. And going to the Yamaha always just feels like a big step backward workflow-wise. But that's just me- and there are some designers on B'Way who are big advocates of the Rivage series- so take my input as just one opinion!

--Justin Stasiw

[Scott Martinez]

I just finished a Fiddler with 30 packs and 10 piece orchestra on a DM7 with a Theater package. I am currently mid-run of a two week performance of Secret Garden. The previous desk was a PM5D, and I have done a few high school and college performances on TF1's and TF5. I mix inputs to groups to matrix's unless I need to send an aux to the pit. Overall, I am pretty happy with the desk, it just took time to get the muscle memory to get around it. I still find the UI a little laggy, but overall it seems to be getting better. Twice during rehearsals, I hit next/go and the desk went to cue 1 and gave a message "scene not found". This would have been catastrophic if it was a performance since this scene had some routing that cause some major feedback. It made me look stupid at the time, but again, thankfully it was during a dress. I mix on 12 DCAs at center section and watch the vocal and band subgroups or channel spill on the left bank. My side car unit has VCAs for LR, another for center, outfills, and front fills. We are using 2 RIO's, and two Tio's in the pit. I have almost zero time on CL and QL, but lots of time on the TF, and it's pretty great. I wish I had time to set up more user assignable keys to reduce button presses to get to a matrix adjustment, but by the time the show opens, things are pretty well dialed. In between Fiddler and Garden, I had a youth conference on a S6L which made for good exercise to go from one desk user interface and back quickly! I like the desk and hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions.

-Scott

[Mark V]

Hey, thanks so much everyone for all the thoughts! It certainly sounds like the DM7 is a worthy successor to the CL5, even if it's not going to be replacing any of the more preferred consoles for Broadway level musicals. At its price point, I wouldn't expect it to. But if this is the next generation of console to become the industry standard at regional theatres, that's pretty exciting.  

One really practical question about which I'm particularly curious - what's the real-world mixing experience like, not having the scribble strips so close to the physical faders? Do you find your eyes constantly floating between the labels in the main screen and your fingers, in an annoying or cumbersome way? Having only laid hands on the desk in a shop, it's hard to determine if that would mess with the flow while mixing, at least until muscle memory takes over. 

Any other thoughts most welcome!

Mark

[Benjamin Anderson]

FWIW - I use Dlive with TheatreMix https://theatremix.com/. Theatre mix is a huge time saver - even DM7, Rivage and Digico users are asking for compatibility due to its workflow enhancements - let alone cost savings. Your option for the CL/QL is significantly enhanced when considering theatremix. 

If you are a designer being hired to design for a show only in your space, then i'm sure some would be OK with what is there and others may want to use their work-flow on the brand they are used to. Time efficiency is important so working on what you are familiar with is often a huge factor to consider. If a design is already done for a show on a certain brand - then that's a whole lot of work that needs re-doing if you are forcing a show to use your console.

Bottom line for what sounds like your budget - check out Theatre Mix which gives you the "Theatre Package" on steroids for a wide variety of consoles. 

[Mark V]

Thanks for the thoughts Benjamin. I'm a regular user of Theatre Mix and think it's a great tool. Count me in as another user who would love compatibility with the DM7. 

To consider Theatre Mix as the DM7 Theatre Package "on steroids" seems like a bit of a stretch. For DCA programming, management, and execution, as well as RF monitoring on the desk, Theatre Mix is quite good, and perhaps better or more efficient than what the DM7 Theatre Package offers? Again, I've only used it in a shop and with the online editor. But when considering the other features the Theatre Package offers - actor library and the associated EQ/dynamics banks, DCA grid view, and upgraded scene memory function come to mind - and all the other improvements to the rest of the desk more generally, the DM7 seems like the more advanced option. 

CL with Theatre Mix may be the best option *for the money*, but not otherwise. Especially if at some later date, Theatre Mix starts working with DM7. 

I hear you too on the personal preferences for the desk. Most of our designers are hired locally (Philadelphia area, US), and we're all used to using and programming CL/QL, as most budgets don't allow for more expensive desks. I'm imagining DM7 being the future preferred option for this level of theatre, and we're all excited around here to start learning and programming on them. Ultimately, it's usually about what's available or what the particular venue owns, vs. personal preference. And because we're a producing house, we're not taking tours or shows that have already been programmed. 

On that note, I'm curious in general about how reliable the Yamaha File Converter program is? I've never used it. It doesn't look like it supports DM7 yet, but I'm sure it will soon. 

[David Dansky]

I just sent a day learning the DM7 at Mastermind Sound in Fullerton, CA  with two Yamaha company specialists and as much as I think this console is great, I have issues with having only 24 input faders and 4 DCA plus 2 master faders.  I need more faders for what I do but what I do is not theatre. I am a concert engineer but numbers are numbers.

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[David Dansky]

I should have been more explicit. I need more than 4 DCA faders. I can to a show with two 24 channel layers.

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[Simon Eves]

X32 and (very) occasional QL5 user here...

I'm confused. The DM7 has 24 DCAs internally. I see that one of the fader sections only has four, but surely you can map DCAs onto the other strips too?

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[David Dansky]

You can make any fader be what you want.  On the console I was looking at the two master faders were Band and Vocals so it had 24 input faders and 6 DCA faders. (Getting closer to 8)

So it will work if you use custom layers.

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