Third ChoDeSh
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IaHU-NaTaN
May 31, 2010, 5:22:34 AM5/31/10
to the-unifi...@googlegroups.com
There are certain guidelines that help us determine whether the month will be full 30 days or 29... but I find that the closer we are to "too close to call" the less reliable they are.
Next month is particularly troublesome... quickphase in PST and my location (Springfield, Oregon) old moon on ShaBaT 6/11, conjunction will be 6/12 - 4:15 am
first visible crescent 6/13 ... first quarter is on 6/18 9:30 PM, full moon is 6/26 4:31 am, last quarter 7/4 at 7:36 am, conjunction 7/11 12:41 pm.
Main problem being that full moon is actually before sunrise so technically still on 6/25 the 13th.. this is actually a day early and so will be first quarter.
So east coast is three hours later 7:31 is full moon in the day but morning of 14th.. Temple Mount 6/26 2:31 PM a closer fit...
So I am still wondering.. might need to adjust.. if I start on 6/12 it would still fit for full moon but no crescent.. except maybe hawaii..
I haven't looked further west yet... I guess that's next.
We have decided that we should probably stick with our Scriptural Anchor and start on the 12th otherwise full moon will be a day early PST..
now if we did this the anchor is still met east to IeRUShaLeM and also points west. only problem is last quarter ends up late but I don't think that is as big a problem as full moon before the 14th.
Overall it provides a good example of problems faced and the Scriptural solution.
| ) | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | Rest |
| 1 13 |
2 14 |
3 15 |
4 16 |
5 17 |
6 18  |
7 19 |
8 20 |
| 9 21 |
10 22 |
11 23 |
12 24 |
13 25 |
14 26 |
15 27 | |
| 16 28 |
17 29 |
18 30 |
19 1 |
20 2 |
21 3 |
22 4 | |
| 23 5 |
24 6 |
25 7 |
26 8 |
27 9 |
28 10 |
29 11  |
| ) | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | Rest |
| 1 12 |
2 13 |
3 14 |
4 15 |
5 16 |
6 17 |
7 18 |
8 19 |
| 9 20 |
10 21 |
11 22 |
12 23 |
13 24 |
14 25 |
1526 | |
| 16 27 |
17 28 |
18 29 |
19 30 |
20 1 |
21 2 |
22 3 | |
| 234 |
24 5 |
25 6 |
26 7 |
27 8 |
28 9 |
29 10 |
3011
elisheba
May 31, 2010, 12:26:41 PM5/31/10
to The Unified ShaBaT
Dear IaHU-NaTaN,
My husband, Tom, and I see the challenge, and because of our study in
this area, I will post the chapters we are working on in our book that
are related to this issue. I showed Tom this group yesterday, and
left him looking at your calendar while I did something else. He said
that your original plan for the next month, as posted by your calendar
pictures was accurate with the way we understand it. Tom said that
all of the new moons & Shabbats he looked at were the same as he
remembered figuring them to be through our study and application of
Scriptures, history and observation. We will have to double check it
with his hard copy later... He would like to have a better
understanding, I think, of how you got your dates.
At present, we would encourage you to stick with the dates you have
for next month, because they line up more completely with all the
principles we have studied in this area.
In the meantime, I will share off the top of my head what may be
applicable here in what we have learned relating to the moon's phases,
and how we got our dates.
The first principle involved is that the day the moon is lit in the
heavens is the first day of the month (Philo & the Book of Enoch -
references will be included in the posted chapters mentioned above.)
[Note: The moon rises with the sun on the first day of the month and
goes across the sky very close to it all day, but it's light is so
faint that we don't see it until the light of the sun is diminished in
the evening.]
We don't have to see the moon lit in the heavens before we call the
first day of the month because the moon's position in the sky, its
configurations, and its rising and setting times during the preceding
month, will tell us when the first day will be. If we call the new
moon before the day the moon is lit in the heavens throughout the day,
we will not line up properly for the 14th, the announcing day for
Shabbat. The 14th day of the moon is always the day that the sunset
and the moonrise are closest in time. Sometimes the moon rises full on
that day. If so, we are looking at a 29 day month. If the moon does
not become full until after it rises, during the night, it will be a
thirty day month.
We understand that the moon is full for the 14th and the 15th. When
the 14th day of the moon actually happens according to the position in
the sky, if for some reason the moon becomes full a little before the
14th in our timezone, but it is full on the 14th, and announcing for
the 15th, it still works out fine. (There have been months where the
moon is 100 percent full for nearly 2 full days, since I began
observing the moon and its configurations.) According to Philo, the
moon is full at the end of the second week. According to the Book of
Enoch, the 15th is when the full moon rises at night. (Before that it
rises in the afternoon and evening - and the 14th around the time of
sunset.)
The overriding principle in our observations is - the position of the
moon in the sky for announcing the date is actually the pivotal
factor, with the configurations of the phases showing how long the
month will be. This may be because Yah allowed His timepiece to be
changed during the 8th century BC with Hezekiah. Before that, it
appeared to be perfectly lined up - 360 day per year, with 12 months
of 30 days with equinox and the Mazzeroth... Perhaps this was so it
would make an even clearer distinction between His people and those
who worshiped the heavenly hosts. At that time, it appears that Mars
came close. [Around the time of the deliverance from Egypt, it
appears that Venus came close.] The destruction of Sennacherib's army
was also apparently tied in with a 'flyby,' [Fascinating stuff in
Immanuel Velikovsky's book 'Worlds in Collision'.]
Yah reveals His secrets to those that fear Him. He is the same
yesterday, today, and forever... The principles of the mo'edim
stayed the same after the lights in the heavens changed, although the
application of the earlier rules would not have worked.
One of the challenges we have as humans, is that many of us tend to
feel more secure with having rules than thinking in principles, and
applying them to a situation. We may take a principle and make it
into a bunch of rules, like the Pharisees did for the Sabbath, and the
need to have clean hands. We need to understand how Yah's principles
apply to our lives - because when the rules don't work, the principles
still do. There may be times when the general rules developed
beforehand do not apply to a certain situation, and if we used the
rules, we would violate Yah's foundational principles. The more He
works with our hearts, the more we learn to think in principles.
This is one reason why we need our brethren... Remember when Moses
was angry with Aaron, because he hadn't done something the priest in
his position was supposed to do, on the day his sons were killed in
Yah's presence? When he explained the principle to Moses, he
understood that Aaron had honored another principle that actually had
more weight than the duty Moses was upset with Aaron for not doing.
So let us all pray for one another, and humbly submit to one another
the principles and rules we have worked out to apply to a certain
situation. This way, we can all prayerfully consider a bigger picture
as we share what we are learning with one another, and ask Yah to
bring us to the place of unity in our understanding what He would have
for all of us.
We submit our chapters on how the month works for to you to examine
and share with us anything you might see that might be a blessing for
us to consider...
You and your ministry are kept in our prayers.
Shalom,
elisheba
On May 31, 4:22 am, IaHU-NaTaN <i...@iahushua.com> wrote:
> There are certain guidelines that help us determine whether the month will be full 30 days or 29... but I find that the closer we are to "too close to call" the less reliable they are.
>
> Next month is particularly troublesome... quickphase in PST and my location (Springfield, Oregon) old moon on ShaBaT 6/11, conjunction will be 6/12 - 4:15 am
> first visible crescent 6/13 ... first quarter is on 6/18 9:30 PM, full moon is 6/26 4:31 am, last quarter 7/4 at 7:36 am, conjunction 7/11 12:41 pm.
> Main problem being that full moon is actually before sunrise so technically still on 6/25 the 13th.. this is actually a day early and so will be first quarter.
> So east coast is three hours later 7:31 is full moon in the day but morning of 14th.. Temple Mount 6/26 2:31 PM a closer fit...
> So I am still wondering.. might need to adjust.. if I start on 6/12 it would still fit for full moon but no crescent.. except maybe hawaii..
> I haven't looked further west yet... I guess that's next.
>
> We have decided that we should probably stick with our Scriptural Anchor and start on the 12th otherwise full moon will be a day early PST..
> now if we did this the anchor is still met east to IeRUShaLeM and also points west. only problem is last quarter ends up late but I don't think that is as big a problem as full moon before the 14th.
>
> Overall it provides a good example of problems faced and the Scriptural solution.
>
> Third ChoDeSh 6/13
> KeSeH 6/26 11:31AM GMT 4:31AM PST
> ) 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rest
> 1
> 13 2
> 14 3
> 15 4
> 16 5
> 17 6
> 18 7
> 11
My husband, Tom, and I see the challenge, and because of our study in
this area, I will post the chapters we are working on in our book that
are related to this issue. I showed Tom this group yesterday, and
left him looking at your calendar while I did something else. He said
that your original plan for the next month, as posted by your calendar
pictures was accurate with the way we understand it. Tom said that
all of the new moons & Shabbats he looked at were the same as he
remembered figuring them to be through our study and application of
Scriptures, history and observation. We will have to double check it
with his hard copy later... He would like to have a better
understanding, I think, of how you got your dates.
At present, we would encourage you to stick with the dates you have
for next month, because they line up more completely with all the
principles we have studied in this area.
In the meantime, I will share off the top of my head what may be
applicable here in what we have learned relating to the moon's phases,
and how we got our dates.
The first principle involved is that the day the moon is lit in the
heavens is the first day of the month (Philo & the Book of Enoch -
references will be included in the posted chapters mentioned above.)
[Note: The moon rises with the sun on the first day of the month and
goes across the sky very close to it all day, but it's light is so
faint that we don't see it until the light of the sun is diminished in
the evening.]
We don't have to see the moon lit in the heavens before we call the
first day of the month because the moon's position in the sky, its
configurations, and its rising and setting times during the preceding
month, will tell us when the first day will be. If we call the new
moon before the day the moon is lit in the heavens throughout the day,
we will not line up properly for the 14th, the announcing day for
Shabbat. The 14th day of the moon is always the day that the sunset
and the moonrise are closest in time. Sometimes the moon rises full on
that day. If so, we are looking at a 29 day month. If the moon does
not become full until after it rises, during the night, it will be a
thirty day month.
We understand that the moon is full for the 14th and the 15th. When
the 14th day of the moon actually happens according to the position in
the sky, if for some reason the moon becomes full a little before the
14th in our timezone, but it is full on the 14th, and announcing for
the 15th, it still works out fine. (There have been months where the
moon is 100 percent full for nearly 2 full days, since I began
observing the moon and its configurations.) According to Philo, the
moon is full at the end of the second week. According to the Book of
Enoch, the 15th is when the full moon rises at night. (Before that it
rises in the afternoon and evening - and the 14th around the time of
sunset.)
The overriding principle in our observations is - the position of the
moon in the sky for announcing the date is actually the pivotal
factor, with the configurations of the phases showing how long the
month will be. This may be because Yah allowed His timepiece to be
changed during the 8th century BC with Hezekiah. Before that, it
appeared to be perfectly lined up - 360 day per year, with 12 months
of 30 days with equinox and the Mazzeroth... Perhaps this was so it
would make an even clearer distinction between His people and those
who worshiped the heavenly hosts. At that time, it appears that Mars
came close. [Around the time of the deliverance from Egypt, it
appears that Venus came close.] The destruction of Sennacherib's army
was also apparently tied in with a 'flyby,' [Fascinating stuff in
Immanuel Velikovsky's book 'Worlds in Collision'.]
Yah reveals His secrets to those that fear Him. He is the same
yesterday, today, and forever... The principles of the mo'edim
stayed the same after the lights in the heavens changed, although the
application of the earlier rules would not have worked.
One of the challenges we have as humans, is that many of us tend to
feel more secure with having rules than thinking in principles, and
applying them to a situation. We may take a principle and make it
into a bunch of rules, like the Pharisees did for the Sabbath, and the
need to have clean hands. We need to understand how Yah's principles
apply to our lives - because when the rules don't work, the principles
still do. There may be times when the general rules developed
beforehand do not apply to a certain situation, and if we used the
rules, we would violate Yah's foundational principles. The more He
works with our hearts, the more we learn to think in principles.
This is one reason why we need our brethren... Remember when Moses
was angry with Aaron, because he hadn't done something the priest in
his position was supposed to do, on the day his sons were killed in
Yah's presence? When he explained the principle to Moses, he
understood that Aaron had honored another principle that actually had
more weight than the duty Moses was upset with Aaron for not doing.
So let us all pray for one another, and humbly submit to one another
the principles and rules we have worked out to apply to a certain
situation. This way, we can all prayerfully consider a bigger picture
as we share what we are learning with one another, and ask Yah to
bring us to the place of unity in our understanding what He would have
for all of us.
We submit our chapters on how the month works for to you to examine
and share with us anything you might see that might be a blessing for
us to consider...
You and your ministry are kept in our prayers.
Shalom,
elisheba
On May 31, 4:22 am, IaHU-NaTaN <i...@iahushua.com> wrote:
> There are certain guidelines that help us determine whether the month will be full 30 days or 29... but I find that the closer we are to "too close to call" the less reliable they are.
>
> Next month is particularly troublesome... quickphase in PST and my location (Springfield, Oregon) old moon on ShaBaT 6/11, conjunction will be 6/12 - 4:15 am
> first visible crescent 6/13 ... first quarter is on 6/18 9:30 PM, full moon is 6/26 4:31 am, last quarter 7/4 at 7:36 am, conjunction 7/11 12:41 pm.
> Main problem being that full moon is actually before sunrise so technically still on 6/25 the 13th.. this is actually a day early and so will be first quarter.
> So east coast is three hours later 7:31 is full moon in the day but morning of 14th.. Temple Mount 6/26 2:31 PM a closer fit...
> So I am still wondering.. might need to adjust.. if I start on 6/12 it would still fit for full moon but no crescent.. except maybe hawaii..
> I haven't looked further west yet... I guess that's next.
>
> We have decided that we should probably stick with our Scriptural Anchor and start on the 12th otherwise full moon will be a day early PST..
> now if we did this the anchor is still met east to IeRUShaLeM and also points west. only problem is last quarter ends up late but I don't think that is as big a problem as full moon before the 14th.
>
> Overall it provides a good example of problems faced and the Scriptural solution.
>
> Third ChoDeSh 6/13
> KeSeH 6/26 11:31AM GMT 4:31AM PST
> ) 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rest
> 1
> 13 2
> 14 3
> 15 4
> 16 5
> 17 6
> 19 8
> 20
> 9
> 21 10
> 22 11
> 23 12
> 24 13
> 25 14
> 20
> 9
> 21 10
> 22 11
> 23 12
> 24 13
> 25 14
> 26 15
> 27
> 16
> 28 17
> 29 18
> 30 19
> 1 20
> 2 21
> 3 22
> 27
> 16
> 28 17
> 29 18
> 30 19
> 1 20
> 2 21
> 3 22
> 4
> 23
> 5 24
> 6 25
> 7 26
> 8 27
> 9 28
> 10 29
> 11
> 23
> 5 24
> 6 25
> 7 26
> 8 27
> 9 28
> 10 29
> 11
> Third ChoDeSh 6/12
> KeSeH 6/26 11:31AM GMT 4:31AM PST
> ) 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rest
> 1
> 12 2
> 13 3
> 14 4
> 15 5
> 16 6
> 17 7
> 18 8
> KeSeH 6/26 11:31AM GMT 4:31AM PST
> ) 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rest
> 1
> 12 2
> 13 3
> 14 4
> 15 5
> 16 6
> 17 7
> 19
> 9
> 20 10
> 21 11
> 22 12
> 23 13
> 24 14
> 25 15
> 9
> 20 10
> 21 11
> 22 12
> 23 13
> 24 14
> 25 15
> 26
> 16
> 27 17
> 28 18
> 29 19
> 30 20
> 1 21
> 2 22
> 3
> 23
> 16
> 27 17
> 28 18
> 29 19
> 30 20
> 1 21
> 2 22
> 3
> 23
> 4 24
> 5 25
> 6 26
> 7 27
> 8 28
> 9 29
> 10 30
> 5 25
> 6 26
> 7 27
> 8 28
> 9 29
> 11
IaHU-NaTaN
Jun 12, 2010, 2:13:28 PM6/12/10
to the-unifi...@googlegroups.com
Thank You!
Yes.. I agree and will stick with 6/13 as RoSh ChoDeSh. it is an example of stretching it to make it work, but it does still work.
If I adjusted it to fit better here in the west by rushing it.. it wouldn't work as well back east.. but it would still work.
I am beginining more and more to see how vital our agreement is in the matter and our Prayers that it be Acceptable in the sight of IaHUeH.
The information in the chapters you share here is Excellent.. the best we have done to date..
We need to remember that they did not have the precision we now have to know the exact time of the Phases..
and were reliant on what they could observe, calculate and verify.
I think we are in a good place for now...
I am looking deeper into this sunset start of day error.. it is a Greek innovation imposed by Alexander.. probably accepted due to familiarity from Babylon.
The Temple stuck with Sunrise reckonings.. no more Temple made the change to sunset the Standard... even though the "common folk" all started their days when they woke up and started the day.
This crescent moon sighting error is even more difficult to fathom let alone shake... from all the stories it is hard to come to any other conclusion...
(I wonder how we did?) "See the crescent then start the month" you even needed witnesses to be examined!!
These two concepts, so firmly entrenched are the biggest obstacles we face.. if the one don't get you the other one will.
From: elisheba <elish...@gmail.com>
To: The Unified ShaBaT <the-unifi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 9:26:41 AM
Subject: [the-Unified-ShaBaT:3] Re: Third ChoDeSh
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