Fwd: Is Barley a Legimate Sign?
pnw...@aol.com
The attachment did not go thru so here it is again with the attachment.
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: pnw...@aol.com
To: pnw...@aol.com
Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:02 pm
Subject: Is Barley a Legimate Sign?
Since the question of the barley has come up over the last few months I
felt compelled to offer some input in the form of the attached article.
Neil
Theda
I've not been able to access the file you attached.
Can you send it again?
Thanks,
Theda
> Is Barley a legitimate.doc
> 83KViewDownload
Joan Griffith
Joan
If you love something, set it free. Or break its legs so it can't escape.
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Pat
I follow your reasoning, but you skipped over something that I think
you'd want to include. I believe your reasoning should have started
with these questions:
1. Did God give any instructions about determining the first month of
the year?
2. If he did, what are his instructions, and am I going to follow
them?
3. If he did not, how am I going to know which month is the first
month?
Your reasoning went straight to question number 3.
Neil, from what you said, I know you can handle a search for the word
Abib/ Aviv in the OT. If you look for ALL instances of that Hebrew
word, regardless of their English translation, and let the Bible speak
for itself, you will not have to use your own reasoning, or modern
dictionaries either. In fact it would be disobedience to God to
disregard his instructions and use your own reasoning instead. Adam
and Eve did that - BIG mistake.
This is why "barley people" don't get into talking about the equinox,
we don't even need to go there. However, people who are comparing the
two methods are seeing a relationship, and from what I understand, one
slight adjustment in the equinox formula would bring the two methods
into agreement. More about that below.
If you let the bible define the word Abib, it means the grain (any
grain; corn, wheat, barley, flax) is "in the head". It's a stage of
ripeness. You'll see two scriptures that show this, they show that one
grain was ruined because it was at one stage, and the other grain was
not ruined because it was abib - what growers call "in the head". The
grain is formed but not ripe yet.
Further, when God was revealing the days he had sanctified, part of
the instructions were for the wave sheaf offering. If you'll look up
everything you can find about the wave sheaf offering, you will see
that this started AFTER the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness,
when the tribes entered the land they were to inherit. It started with
the first crop that THEY planted. The first year in the land, when the
crops there had been planted by the previous inhabitants, that didn't
count, they weren't to do the wave sheaf that year, but wait until the
next year, for the crop that they themselves had planted. So that's
the timing for the start of observing the wave sheaf offering.
When you look at all the festivals, you see that the wave sheaf
offering was to be waved the "Sunday" after it was cut (the morrow
after the Sabbath). That means you can't hold it over until the next
month. If you cut it on Wednesday, you're offering it that weekend.
Also, they couldn't use any of the new grain until after the wave
sheaf offering was waved. Today, this might not seem like a big deal,
but in those times it was. In addition to the fact that GOD SAID that
the first month is Abib, this further shows that the new grain was cut
IN the first month. We see how Jesus fulfilled this - he was risen and
ascended to the Father on the "Sunday" after Passover to be accepted
by the Father on our behalf. He was our wave sheaf offering, the
firstfruits of those who will be raised from the dead. The wave sheaf
offering falls inside the Festival of the Unleavened Bread. Passover
is Abib 14, and the Festival of Unleavened bread follows it, Abib
15-21.
That wave sheaf offering is pretty important, and it starts the count
to Pentecost. 7 weeks after the wave sheaf offering is Pentecost.
Jesus fulfilled that on the right day, too.
-So you have that God said the first month is Abib,
-you have the bible telling us what Abib means, grain that is formed,
"in the head"
-and we see that the wave sheaf offering was on the "Sunday" after
Passover, further pinning it to the first month, because we know
plainly that Passover is in the first month.
For "barley people" this is plenty of clear instruction about how to
know the first month of the year. And then we have our second
question, which is am I going to follow these instructions? If yes,
you're all set. There are Karaite Jews, and Torah Christians who have
planted native barley in Jerusalem, and will tell you when it's Abib/
Aviv if you want to know. But if you chose to disregard these
instructions, then you go on to figuring out how to determine it
yourself. (And the equinox could work with one adjustment, more on
that below.)
There is another source of information you didn't mention, and that is
the Jews. When this issue first came to my attention, I wanted to know
what they were doing in Moses' time, and in Jesus' time. Could I find
that out? Yes!!! From the Jews!
The Jews are divided over the issue of the calendar. As you know, most
of them have adopted the calculated calendar, but a minority have not,
and they've come to be called the Karaite Jews. Karaite means
scriptural. Long story short, a couple hundred years after Jesus'
time, various Rabbi's started making changes to the way things had
always been done, and in the 400's AD a bunch of changes were made and
adopted, now known as the calculated calendar of Rabbi Hillel. One
side insisted they had the right to make these changes, and the other
insisted they did not. Both sides of the argument will tell you that
from the time of Moses, and through the time of Christ, they used the
crescent moon and aviv/abib. All the fuss and division was because the
Rabbis wanted to change from the way it had always been done, to using
the dark moon and the equinox instead. The Karaite Jews refused to
change and still go by the crescent moon and aviv barley. Aviv is the
important thing, it's only barley because that happens to be the first
grain to mature.
They seem to be reasonable people from what I see, and in recent years
they've paid attention to how the barley relates to the equinox, just
to see what the relationship is. When you go by barley, the equinox
always occurs INSIDE of the first month. It's only when one insists
that the equinox has to occur FIRST, and the THE NEXT new moon is the
first one of the new year, that's when it can make the calendars
disagree by a month. That's not too bad, one slight adjustment and you
see agreement in the two methods. If you say that the equinox occurs
INSIDE OF the first month of the new year, then I believe the barley
people and the equinox people would be in sync.
Here's a link of all occurrences of the Hebrew word for Abib/Aviv in
the OT so you can let the bible speak for itself. Many translations
use Nisan instead of Abib, which hides this information, and
translations of "in the head" also obscure it. You'd either have to be
reading the OT in Hebrew or do this Hebrew word search to see this:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H24&t=KJV
Please look at the context for the first occurrence to see what abib
means, it says "the barley was in the ear". And please look at the
contexts for the other occurrences too, to see what God said about
this issue. He didn't leave his people without instructions, he gave
instructions, and they're tied to the first cutting of the new crop of
grain.
Also, the meanings of words change. If you can find a source that will
tell you the history of the changes, you will find that the definition
of "new moon" has changed! Even in science, it used to mean the first
visible light of the new crescent, and then it was changed about a
hundred years ago if I remember correctly, to the totally dark moon,
the conjunction. A modern dictionary will tell you the new moon is the
dark moon, but a dictionary from a few hundred years ago would tell
you it's the first visible light. This information meshes with the
squabble amongst the Jews - everybody used to do it one way, and now
most people do it the new way. Me, I'm stuck on believing if God
sanctified certain time as holy, we can't move it or reschedule it, we
have to follow what he set, otherwise we'd be treating holy time as
regular time, and regular time as holy.
Like you, I also believe each person has to go by what they're fully
convicted of. I normally wouldn't press an issue, but on this one, our
translations obscure it, it's not plain to see in our bibles, you have
to go back to the Hebrew to see it, and so I talk about it more to
make people aware. Once you're aware, it's up to you to adopt or
reject, you have free choice.
Pat
mary
Romans 8:28
From: Joan Griffith <desp...@gmail.com>
To: the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 9:20:14 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is Barley a Legimate Sign?
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Pat
and Pentecost.
Here is more proof that the first cutting of the new crop of grain is
part of God's instructions for the Holy Days; how do you know when
Pentecost is? It's also known as the Feast of Weeks, or the Feast of
Harvest (not to be confused with the Feast of Ingathering/Booths in
the fall).
We know that for Pentecost you count 7 weeks, 50 days, to the "morrow
after the sabbath" which would be the "first day of the week" now
called Sunday. How do you know what to start counting from? God told
us, and it's all about the firstfruits of grain:
Lev 23: see verses 10 - 16; start the count to Pentecost from the Wave
Sheaf Offering, which had to be offered the "Sunday" after it was cut:
[1] The LORD said to Moses,
[2] "Say to the people of Israel, The appointed feasts of the LORD
which you shall proclaim as holy convocations, my appointed feasts,
are these.
[3] Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a sabbath
of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work; it is a
sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.
[4] "These are the appointed feasts of the LORD, the holy
convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them.
[5] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the
evening, is the LORD's passover.
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of
unleavened bread to the LORD; seven days you shall eat unleavened
bread.
[7] On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do
no laborious work.
[8] But you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD seven days;
on the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious
work."
[9] And the LORD said to Moses,
[10] "Say to the people of Israel, When you come into the land which I
give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the first
fruits of your harvest to the priest;
[11] and he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, that you may find
acceptance; on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
[12] And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male
lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to the LORD.
[13] And the cereal offering with it shall be two tenths of an ephah
of fine flour mixed with oil, to be offered by fire to the LORD, a
pleasing odor; and the drink offering with it shall be of wine, a
fourth of a hin.
[14] And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until
this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is
a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
[15] "And you shall count from the morrow after the sabbath, from the
day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven full weeks
shall they be,
[16] counting fifty days to the morrow after the seventh sabbath; then
you shall present a cereal offering of new grain to the LORD.
[17] You shall bring from your dwellings two loaves of bread to be
waved, made of two tenths of an ephah; they shall be of fine flour,
they shall be baked with leaven, as first fruits to the LORD.
[18] And you shall present with the bread seven lambs a year old
without blemish, and one young bull, and two rams; they shall be a
burnt offering to the LORD, with their cereal offering and their drink
offerings, an offering by fire, a pleasing odor to the LORD.
[19] And you shall offer one male goat for a sin offering, and two
male lambs a year old as a sacrifice of peace offerings.
[20] And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the first fruits
as a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs; they shall be
holy to the LORD for the priest.
[21] And you shall make proclamation on the same day; you shall hold a
holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work: it is a statute for
ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
Verse 10 shows when the Israelites were to start observing the wave
sheaf offering. If you look for the phrase "come into the land" in the
OT, you will see that it was used many times. Many of the instructions
in the Law of Moses were to start after they entered the promised
land.
Deut.16 - see verses 9 -10; start the count to Pentecost from the
first cutting of the new grain:
[1] "Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover to the LORD your
God; for in the month of Abib the LORD your God brought you out of
Egypt by night.
[2] And you shall offer the passover sacrifice to the LORD your God,
from the flock or the herd, at the place which the LORD will choose,
to make his name dwell there.
[3] You shall eat no leavened bread with it; seven days you shall eat
it with unleavened bread, the bread of affliction -- for you came out
of the land of Egypt in hurried flight -- that all the days of your
life you may remember the day when you came out of the land of Egypt.
[4] No leaven shall be seen with you in all your territory for seven
days; nor shall any of the flesh which you sacrifice on the evening of
the first day remain all night until morning.
[5] You may not offer the passover sacrifice within any of your towns
which the LORD your God gives you;
[6] but at the place which the LORD your God will choose, to make his
name dwell in it, there you shall offer the passover sacrifice, in the
evening at the going down of the sun, at the time you came out of
Egypt.
[7] And you shall boil it and eat it at the place which the LORD your
God will choose; and in the morning you shall turn and go to your
tents.
[8] For six days you shall eat unleavened bread; and on the seventh
day there shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD your God; you shall
do no work on it.
[9] "You shall count seven weeks; begin to count the seven weeks from
the time you first put the sickle to the standing grain.
[10] Then you shall keep the feast of weeks to the LORD your God with
the tribute of a freewill offering from your hand, which you shall
give as the LORD your God blesses you;
[11] and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God, you and your son
and your daughter, your manservant and your maidservant, the Levite
who is within your towns, the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow
who are among you, at the place which the LORD your God will choose,
to make his name dwell there.
[12] You shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt; and you shall
be careful to observe these statutes.
[13] "You shall keep the feast of booths seven days, when you make
your ingathering from your threshing floor and your wine press;
[14] you shall rejoice in your feast, you and your son and your
daughter, your manservant and your maidservant, the Levite, the
sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow who are within your towns.
[15] For seven days you shall keep the feast to the LORD your God at
the place which the LORD will choose; because the LORD your God will
bless you in all your produce and in all the work of your hands, so
that you will be altogether joyful.
[16] "Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD
your God at the place which he will choose: at the feast of unleavened
bread, at the feast of weeks, and at the feast of booths. They shall
not appear before the LORD empty-handed;
[17] every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of
the LORD your God which he has given you.
In the NT, Paul tells us that Jesus raised from the dead is the
firstfruits of those who will be raised from the dead.
1Cor.15 [20] But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the
first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
As the firstfruits, Christ ascended to the Father to be accepted on
our behalf on "the morrow after the Sabbath":
John.20 - See verse 1: it was the first day of the week. In verse 17,
don't touch b/c not yet ascended to the Father. In verse 19 later that
day he showed them his hands and feet and gave them the Holy Spirit.
This shows that he had been accepted by the Father that day.
[1] Now on the first day of the week Mary Mag'dalene came to the tomb
early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken
away from the tomb.
[2] So she ran, and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the
one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken the Lord out
of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him."
[3] Peter then came out with the other disciple, and they went toward
the tomb.
[4] They both ran, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the
tomb first;
[5] and stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but
he did not go in.
[6] Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he
saw the linen cloths lying,
[7] and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the
linen cloths but rolled up in a place by itself.
[8] Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in,
and he saw and believed;
[9] for as yet they did not know the scripture, that he must rise from
the dead.
[10] Then the disciples went back to their homes.
[11] But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she
stooped to look into the tomb;
[12] and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus
had lain, one at the head and one at the feet.
[13] They said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them,
"Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they
have laid him."
[14] Saying this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing, but she did
not know that it was Jesus.
[15] Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you
seek?" Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, "Sir, if you
have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will
take him away."
[16] Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him in Hebrew,
"Rab-bo'ni!" (which means Teacher).
[17] Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended
to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending
to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
[18] Mary Mag'dalene went and said to the disciples, "I have seen the
Lord"; and she told them that he had said these things to her.
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors
being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came
and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side.
Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has
sent me, even so I send you."
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,
"Receive the Holy Spirit.
It seems that they could touch him that evening, but the fact that he
gave them the Holy Spirit that evening further shows that he had
ascended to the Father that day. He had previously told them he had to
go to the Father so the Holy Spirit could be given to them:
John.16; see verses 5 and 7
[1] "I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away.
[2] They will put you out of the synagogues; indeed, the hour is
coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to
God.
[3] And they will do this because they have not known the Father, nor
me.
[4] But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes
you may remember that I told you of them. "I did not say these things
to you from the beginning, because I was with you.
[5] But now I am going to him who sent me; yet none of you asks me,
`Where are you going?'
[6] But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled
your hearts.
[7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I
go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you;
but if I go, I will send him to you.
[8] And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and
righteousness and judgment:
[9] concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
[10] concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you
will see me no more;
[11] concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
[12] "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
now.
[13] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the
truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he
hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to
come.
These scriptures show that Jesus Christ is our Wave Sheaf offering,
the firstfruits accepted on our behalf, and that he ascended to the
Father, was waved, or offered and accepted, on that "morrow after the
sabbath" right after he was risen from the dead.
All the holy days and festivals show things that our savior would do
in the process of redeeming us. They also use the harvests quite a
bit, symbolically corresponding to the harvests of converted people.
Theda
I've uploaded your essay, "Is Barley A Legitimate Sign?"
Click on "FILES" and scroll to the end of the list.
Look for "Neil Wroten On Barley".
Thanks for your input.
Theda
On Mar 22, 10:06 pm, pnw4...@aol.com wrote:
Theda
I just uploaded my study file from the Book of Jubilees.
It ties the Feast of Weeks and Firstfruits to the Rainbow Covenant,
and the new moons of the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th months to pivotal
events of the days on the ark, calling them Days of Remembrance
ordained by Noah.
This is not intended to change anyone's doctrine. It's just
interesting!
The text in bold, red and/or underlined was for my benefit. It may
help you too.
Cllick on "FILES" and look for "feast of weeks ,,, jubilees"
Theda