View this page "About The Calendar"

[Theda]

About the calendar...

Click on http://groups.google.com/group/the-ten-commandments-calendar/web/about-the-calendar
- or copy & paste it into your browser's address bar if that doesn't
work.

[schi...@northlink.com]

Having read the various reasonings, I would like to add one other. We
observe the new moon, 'new' being something seen. Since the first sliver
light will not be visible here in middle AZ until the evening of the 20th,
Trumpets is the 21st this year.

We use a software scanning program to determine new moon visibility in
this location should the sky not be clear around the expected time. The
pgm calculates four visibility curves by GPS numbers -- easy naked eye,
difficult naked eye, binoculars, telescope with best sky conditions and
lots of luck.

Obviously, the two naked eye curves are the only practical ones to use
since optical devices were not available to OT observers when the rules
were given to them by God.

Regards,
Bob and Marty Schimmel

[Trumpets]

Hi, I'm new here. I thought the Jews kept 2 days because they were
leaving room for error in case they called the new moon wrong and were
off by a day.

The calendar is based on the new moon and sundown, so I believe
sundown on the first day of the month is sundown on the first day of
the month wherever you are. Are you saying you'd keep the Sabbath from
sunset to sunset Jerusalem time, so that in Jerusalem when the sabbath
starts at let's say 7 pm, you'd start it at 12:00 noon here because it
would be at the same time as sundown in Jerusalem? That doesn't seem
right to me. God was talking to people who looked at the sky to call
it, they didn't consult time zone maps. I think it's like we do for
New Year's; when midnight happens where you live, that's the the time
for you. When sundown comes to your area, that's when the Sabbath
starts for you.

Now you've got me curious, here's a link to the holy day calendar I
use, are people keeping other days? I know there's a debate on
Pentecost, I mean other than that.

http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Resources.calendar

Thanks,

Pat

[Theda]

NASA also provides the per cent or fraction of illumination for any
given date. I've included that chart in previous calendars but the new
design doesn't have the space it takes.
Here's the link: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonFraction.php

On Sep 6, 12:48 am, schim...@northlink.com wrote:
> Having read the various reasonings, I would like to add one other.  We
> observe the new moon, 'new' being something seen.  Since the first sliver
> light will not be visible here in middle AZ until the evening of the 20th,
> Trumpets is the 21st this year.
>
> We use a software scanning program to determine new moon visibility in
> this location should the sky not be clear around the expected time.  The
> pgm calculates four visibility curves by GPS numbers -- easy naked eye,
> difficult naked eye, binoculars, telescope with best sky conditions and
> lots of luck.
>
> Obviously, the two naked eye curves are the only practical ones to use
> since optical devices were not available to OT observers when the rules
> were given to them by God.
>
> Regards,
> Bob and Marty Schimmel
>
>
>
>
>
> > About the calendar...
>
> > Click on

> >http://groups.google.com/group/the-ten-commandments-calendar/web/abou...

[Theda]

Pat, We're all Newbies here, practically zygotes, considering the
whole scheme of things. Learning as we go.
But, No, that's exactly what I am not saying. It's easy to be confused
and, yes, it makes me dizzy.
I am saying that the date changes at the international date line. When
it's September 20th here in this part of the world it's still
September 19th in Jerusalem.
Sunset in Jerusalem signals the evening/beginning of a new day in
Jerusalem. Sunset here is the beginning of the new day here,
scripturally speaking..
This is why the Jewish Calendar shows two dates for the annual Feasts.
There is the date that applies to those living in Jerusalem which is
one calendar day later than the date for those living on the other
side of the world.
While the event of the new moon conjunction (as well as other events)
is pin pointed and expressed as Universal Time, each of the twenty-
four different time zones around the world will have its own
expression of time in relation to Universal Time.
Universal Time is what every time zone has in common.
What time is it in Jerusalem when the universal event occurs? Add
three hours to universal time to arrive at Jerusalem Time.
What time is in Little Rock (CST) when that universal event occurs?
Subtract six hours from universal time (if DST is in effect only
subtract five hours).
Per the Jewish Calendar: Rosh Hashanah - Sunset of September 18th
through the 19th for the diaspora and the western hemisphere. But in
Jerusalem evening will have occurred before that universal event,
beginning the first day of the seventh month at the end of the 19th
which is the beginning of the 20th...when we'll be on the 21st here.
Capisca?
And that's why Universal Time is so important. It could be considered
the Anchor of Time, the common denominator. Find it first, then spin
off to whatever time zone your are in. You'll know sundown when it
happens.
You're right, of course, that "back then" time zones had not yet been
devised. But the world is a lot smaller now. Magellan discovered that
sailing around the globe one could lose or gain a day, depending on
the direction of the voyage. East to West loses a day. West to East
gains.
The concept of time zones and universal time are just techniques to
"get a handle on" the passage of time.

[Theda]

NASA, also, provides data about the fraction (or per cent) of the moon
illuminated at midnight, the beginning of the day (they think) or the
data can be calculated for noon.
For midnight, the beginning of these dates:
0.00 per cent illuminated - Sept 19
0.32 per cent illuminated - Sept 20
0.24 per cent illuminated.- Sept 21

Observation of the first sliver of the new crescent moon was about all
that could be expected in ancient times.
My belief is that if we are able to split hairs - we should; that the
new moon begins when the old moon ends. Our Creator was into detail
throughout creation and split more hairs than we can count.
I think that so long as we do the best we can with our understanding
that God will "wink" and forgive us if we fall short of His knowledge
and ability. After all, we're just babies. When He returns He will
open our eyes and enable us to understand clearly.
We must have the courage of our convictions. You believe the new moon
begins at the first visible sliver of a crescent. So do many others.
My belief is that you should abide by that and I respect your standing
up for what you believe.
As long as we can say, "My belief is ..." and abide by that, it is
honorable.
It's the ones who say, " I dunno but So 'n' So thinks such and such,
and I'm going to side with him," that worry me.
.

On Sep 6, 12:48 am, schim...@northlink.com wrote:

> Having read the various reasonings, I would like to add one other.  We
> observe the new moon, 'new' being something seen.  Since the first sliver
> light will not be visible here in middle AZ until the evening of the 20th,
> Trumpets is the 21st this year.
>
> We use a software scanning program to determine new moon visibility in
> this location should the sky not be clear around the expected time.  The
> pgm calculates four visibility curves by GPS numbers -- easy naked eye,
> difficult naked eye, binoculars, telescope with best sky conditions and
> lots of luck.
>
> Obviously, the two naked eye curves are the only practical ones to use
> since optical devices were not available to OT observers when the rules
> were given to them by God.
>
> Regards,
> Bob and Marty Schimmel
>
>
>
>
>
> > About the calendar...
>
> > Click on

> >http://groups.google.com/group/the-ten-commandments-calendar/web/abou...

[Pat]

Hi Theda,

Well I have to admit I never questioned the method by which the date
of the new moon was established before. I just searched the bible the
best I could to see if God told the Israelites how to call the new
moon, and if he did, I can't find it.

I have to go with the belief that whatever the Jews were doing to call
the annual Sabbaths in Jesus time was the correct method, because
Jesus didn't sin, so he did what he was supposed to do. From my little
bit of research I just did, it seems the Jews went by the first
visible crescent. That seems to be the prevailing definition of a new
moon too, although it seems that no moon at all, nothing visible, is
an alternate and less held definition. As far as you know is the first
visible crescent what the Jews did in Jesus' day?

Thanks,

Pat

[Warr...@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/6/2009 3:28:06 AM Central Daylight Time, schi...@northlink.com writes:

Having read the various reasonings, I would like to add one other.  We
observe the new moon, 'new' being something seen.  Since the first sliver
light will not be visible here in middle AZ until the evening of the 20th,
Trumpets is the 21st this year.

We use a software scanning program to determine new moon visibility in
this location should the sky not be clear around the expected time.  The
pgm calculates four visibility curves by GPS numbers -- easy naked eye,
difficult naked eye, binoculars, telescope with best sky conditions and
lots of luck.

Obviously, the two naked eye curves are the only practical ones to use
since optical devices were not available to OT observers when the rules
were given to them by God.

Hi Bob and Marty,

It has been a while since I have seen you. What are your feast plans for this year? Some of us are going back to Orange Beach again.

Thanks for your comments.

John

---

[Theda]

Correction! A slip of the lip. USNO, the US Naval Observatory is the
source I meant to recommend.
t.

[mary]

It makes good sense to me to use the Naval Observatory charts that show when the new moon occurs, that is the conjunction of the earth, sun and moon.  I respect others reasoning and choices and know that God looks on all of our hearts. 

 

Honestly, the fact that we have this conversation at all is because we continue to seek out what God has given to us to have joy, to become like Him, to search out His ways, to look for that light to direct our path, the way of loving submission to our Great and Loving Creator.  We should respect each other even in our differences and be bonded in our dedication to seek the truth.

 

That said, I have a question.  Donna said:

 

Although the Earth, our sun, our moon, our solar system, our galaxie & the universe was created billions of years sgo, it was not until the fourth day of the re-creation week approximately six thousand years ago that God created the dimension of time.

 

Would you please clarify what you base this on.

 

~~mary
Romans 8:28

 

---

From: Theda <theda...@gmail.com>
To: The Ten Commandments Calendar <the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 8:32:41 PM
Subject: Re: About The Calendar moon observance

[Pat]

Hi,

Clearly I'm a novice here just looking into this. From what I've found
so far Rabbi's seem to agree that historically they called the new
moon by the first visible light.

Here's something else. When I heard that the Book of Enoch is quoted
in the NT, I found it online and read it. I just looked to see if it
defines the new moon, and it does! (I'm not recommending the other
books of Enoch known as 2 and 3, just the one known as 1.)

Here's a link to the Book of Enoch online where you can search the
text easliy. You can search for the word "moon" and there are 2 whole
sections in particular that address this. There's lots of information
about the heavenly bodies that I think you guys would appreciate if
you haven't seen it already.

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

Some view this book as just Jewish tradition, but even so, it would
support that the Jews historically went by the first visible sliver.
I'm stuck on wanting to do it the way it was done in Jesus' day,
because I believe it was worked out that he'd keep it correctly so he
wouldn't sin. Satan would have accused him up and down if he kept it
on the wrong day. Well, that's what I'm thinking at this point anyway.

Thanks again for answering my questions!

Pat

On Sep 8, 6:44 am, mary <mary7b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It makes good sense to me to use the Naval Observatory charts that show when the new moon occurs, that is the conjunction of the earth, sun and moon.  I respect others reasoning and choices and know that God looks on all of our hearts. 
>  
> Honestly, the fact that we have this conversation at all is because we continue to seek out what God has given to us to have joy, to become like Him, to search out His ways, to look for that light to direct our path, the way of loving submission to our Great and Loving Creator.  We should respect each other even in our differences and be bonded in our dedication to seek the truth.
>  
> That said, I have a question.  Donna said:
>
> Although the Earth, our sun, our moon, our solar system, our galaxie & the universe was created billions of years sgo, it was not until the fourth day of the re-creation week approximately six thousand years ago that God created the dimension of time.
>  
> Would you please clarify what you base this on.
>
>  
> ~~mary
> Romans 8:28
>
> ________________________________

> From: Theda <thedahor...@gmail.com>

[Theda]

I think it's a most interesting book.
I've read that it was used until about 400 AD when the "new
Christianity" that was being formed disagreed with some of the content
and more or less "lost" it with the other books of the pseudepigrapha.
The astronomy in the Book of the Heavenly Luminaries (chapter 72) is
fascinating with the description of the courses of the sun and moon.
It describes the moon phases and how the sun and moon rise in the east
and set in the west and the "portals" where they enter and exit at
different points in the sky.

The length of the year, 364 days, is a puzzler, though. One writer
offered the idea of describing the year as a circle of 360 degrees.
The other four days are the days of the equinoxes and solstices which
separate the months seasonally. It's close but not exactly the 365 we
expect.

Chapter 74: 10..."Thus I saw their position -how the moons rose and
the sun set in those days. And if five years are added together the
sun has an overplus of thirty days, and all the days which accrue
11 to it for one of those five years, when they are full, amount to
364 days. And the overplus of the sun and of the stars amounts to six
days: in 5 years 6 days every year come to 30 days: and the
12 moon falls behind the sun and stars to the number of 30 days. And
the sun and the stars bring in all the years exactly, so that they do
not advance or delay their position by a single day unto eternity; but
complete the years with perfect justice in 364 days. In 3 years there
are 1,092 days, and in 5 years 1,820 days, so that in 8 years there
are 2,912 days. For the moon alone the days amount in 3 years to 1,062
days, and in 5 years she falls 50 days behind: [i.e. to the sum (of
1,770) there is 5 to be added (1,000 and) 62 days.] And in 5 years
there are 1,770 days, so that for the moon the days 6 in 8 years
amount to 21,832 days. [For in 8 years she falls behind to the amount
of 80 days], all the
17 days she falls behind in 8 years are 80. And the year is accurately
completed in conformity with their world-stations and the stations of
the sun, which rise from the portals through which it (the sun) rises
and sets 30 days."
Any astronomers here who want to tackle that one?

Chapter 73
1" And after this law I saw another law dealing with the smaller
luminary, which is named the Moon.
And her circumference is like the circumference of the heaven, and her
chariot in which she rides is driven by the wind, and light is given
to her in (definite) measure.
And her rising and setting change every month: and her days are like
the days of the sun, and when her light is uniform (i.e. full) it
amounts to the seventh part of the light of the sun. And thus she
rises.
And her first phase in the east comes forth on the thirtieth morning:
and on that day she becomes visible, and constitutes for you the first
phase of the moon on the thirtieth day together with the sun in the
portal where the sun rises.
And the one half of her goes forth by a seventh part, and her whole
circumference is empty, without light, with the exception of one-
seventh part of it, (and) the
6 fourteenth part of her light. And when she receives one-seventh part
of the half of her light, her light
7 amounts to one-seventh part and the half thereof. And she sets with
the sun, and when the sun rises the moon rises with him and receives
the half of one part of light, and in that night in the beginning of
her morning [in the commencement of the lunar day] the moon sets with
the sun, and
8 is invisible that night with the fourteen parts and the half of one
of them. And she rises on that day with exactly a seventh part, and
comes forth and recedes from the rising of the sun, and in her
remaining days she becomes bright in the (remaining) thirteen parts."

Describing the sun: Chapter 72: 37 "...its appearance, according as
the Lord commanded. As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and
rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter
than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal."
This is the way it must appear from earth's perspective but it's not
technically correct.
I can't see it as a sin if we err in either direction (conjunction or
crescent) as long as we do the best we know how to do. Judging others
in their "new moons and sabbaths" or letting others judge us and
persuade us to go against our belief would be more serious.
Jesus had several problems with the Jews but there's nothing written
about a problem with the calendar. He made it clear that tradition
should not come before the law. Traditionally, the Jews used the first
visible bit of a crescent to declare the new moon. Technically and
more precisely, the new moon begins when the old moon ends at the
conjunction. The full moon would fall on the 14th/15th day of the
month.

[schi...@northlink.com]

A note of caution. There are some comments contained in all the books of
Enoch, including Book 1, which clearly conflict with the King James Bible
translation.

Same with the Book of Jasher. However, the curious thing about Jasher is
some information it contains, while disputed by many Jewish theologians,
does correspond to New Testament comment and doctrine. That is
understandable as Jews generally refuse to read the NT and believe in the
purpose for which he was sent to the earth by The Father God (just as
many so-called Christian ministers refuse to read the Old Testament saying
all it contains are frivolous genealogies).

Have two or three 'witnesses' to any idea or situation before believing or
establishing doctrinal beliefs. Check Deuteronomy 19:15 and Matthew
18:16.

Regards,
Bob Schimmel

[Pat]

Hi Bob,

I don't know much about the Book of Jasher, and I agree that Enoch 2
and 3 are not reputable and do contradict the bible. I'm only talking
about The Book of Enoch, aka Enoch 1 (as opposed to Enoch 2 aka The
Secrets of Enoch, and Enoch 3 aka "The Third Book of Enoch", and "The
Revelation of Metatron".

Here's a blurb about Enoch 1 from Wikipedia, which granted, is a
questionable source, but it summarizes what I've found elsewhere:
"While this book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it
was explicitly quoted in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15)
and by many of the early Church Fathers. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church
to this day regards it to be canonical. It is wholly extant only in
the Ge'ez language, with Aramaic fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls
and a few Greek and Latin fragments."

I read Enoch 1 cautiously, skeptically, and prayerfully looking for
contradictions against the bible and I didn't find any. Regarding just
this one book, what did you find as contradictions? If this isn't the
right place to discuss this, please email me directly.

Thanks,

Pat

[Theda]

J. R. Church's comments:
"Though I am comfortable with Enoch’s authorship in chapter 33, I have
reservations about the authenticity of the Book of the Luminaries. It
contains some descriptions about the Sun and Moon that early mankind
could simply have made through observation, yet lacks a proper
explanation of the true science behind the movements of the Earth
around the Sun and the movements of the Moon around the Earth. As we
proceed, I shall attempt to point out these contradictions. As we get
to them, you will understand why I believe that at least part of the
Book of the Luminaries could contain corrupted text. Some scholars
suggest that Enoch was the author, but that, over the centuries,
others have added interpolations to the original text, thus creating
the problems that we shall encounter."

"The terminology is primitive because of the lack of an adequate
vocabulary in Enoch’s day. For example, there were no hours or minutes
by which to configure time. Therefore, according to the author, at the
time of the spring equinox, when the Sun rises directly on the
Equator, the day had 9 "parts," rather than 12 hours; and the night
had 9 "parts" for a total of 18 "parts," rather than 24 hours."

http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail.asp?Article_ID=254

[Theda]

It was not until the fourth day of creation that the sun and moon were
set (re-set) as our timekeepers; to mark signs, seasons, days and
years. Genesis 1:14
If your question refers to the existence of the earth, etc. before the
account of creation in Genesis 1: Eternity goes as far back as it goes
forward. We understand from 1 Co 14:33 - that ..." God is not the
author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
While the context is about speaking in tongues and our behavior in
church the principle can be applied to any of the works of God. The
earth is described as being void and without form - not as the Creator
made it but possibly the result of prehistoric star wars.
The earth is estimated to be approximately 4.5 billion years old while
creation of this generation of man beginning with Adam and Eve is
slightly less than 6000 years according to the Jewish account of years
- 5770 corresponding to the Common Era years of 2009-10.

I especially appreciate the second paragraph of your post. It bears
repeating:

"Honestly, the fact that we have this conversation at all is because
we continue to seek out what God has given to us to have joy, to
become like Him, to search out His ways, to look for that light to
direct our path, the way of loving submission to our Great and Loving
Creator. We should respect each other even in our differences and be
bonded in our dedication to seek the truth."

Theda

On Sep 8, 5:44 am, mary <mary7b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It makes good sense to me to use the Naval Observatory charts that show when the new moon occurs, that is the conjunction of the earth, sun and moon.  I respect others reasoning and choices and know that God looks on all of our hearts. 
>  
> Honestly, the fact that we have this conversation at all is because we continue to seek out what God has given to us to have joy, to become like Him, to search out His ways, to look for that light to direct our path, the way of loving submission to our Great and Loving Creator.  We should respect each other even in our differences and be bonded in our dedication to seek the truth.
>  
> That said, I have a question.  Donna said:
>
> Although the Earth, our sun, our moon, our solar system, our galaxie & the universe was created billions of years sgo, it was not until the fourth day of the re-creation week approximately six thousand years ago that God created the dimension of time.
>  
> Would you please clarify what you base this on.
>
>  
> ~~mary
> Romans 8:28
>
> ________________________________

> From: Theda <thedahor...@gmail.com>

[mary]

Hi Theda,

 

My question was in reference to something that I think Donna or someone said about ""the dimension of time not existing until the 4th day of creation week."" 

 

I don't have a problem embracing the idea that the appointed times were created on the 4th day of creation week, I think that is the point and purpose of that verse, perhaps even the entire purpose of it.  I do however have the point of view that time in some variation has co-existed within and a part of the universe, likely created a very long time ago, and that the space-time continuum was in that beginning woven together and has likely continued interwoven since its inception, just my opinion, and like they say, everyone has one.  So in short, I don't think the dimension of time came into existence on the 4th day of creation.

 

But I don't leave out that possibility that there could have been other dimesions and creations that God toyed with before settling on this particular configuration of things for His babies nursery.   We have to remain clueless to such things if that is the case until and unless He chooses to show us otherwise but so far I haven't seen that revealed, just the space-time blend that we are coming to understand a little tiny bit about. 
 

~~mary
Romans 8:28

 

 

---

From: Theda <theda...@gmail.com>

To: The Ten Commandments Calendar <the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:50:08 PM

[Wendell Benevides]

Hello you all,

I agree with Mary,

The time started when the universe begun. Wouldn't you say that time having not existed until the 4th day of creation is reading into the scriptures to make it fit doctrine? Why call it 4th day if there was no time? How is it possible to say "In the beginning" if there was no time? In this case, this beginning would be in a time-less dimension, a never ending beginning that would still be going on the same way God is.

Wendell

--
~.W.~

[Theda]

Wendell,
It depends on whose beginning is being referenced. Our beginning (with
Adam and Eve) was only about 6000 years ago. Various galaxies have
various ages. There are new galaxies still being formed. The physical
Universe may or may not comprise all that has been created. It is
physical. What spirit worlds or wonders might a spirit Creator have
spoken into being?
Our concept of time is neither eternal nor universal.
From the Revelation of Jesus Christ 10: 5 - 7
"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth
lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven,
and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that
therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there
should be TIME NO LONGER. (Please pardon the all caps. I prefer bold
or italics - apparently not an option with this format.)
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall
begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath
declared to his servants the prophets."
Reiterating, (again, please think italics) ETERNITY GOES BACK INTO THE
PAST AS FAR AS IT GOES INTO THE FUTURE . Our sun and moon did not come
into the reckoning of time here on earth until the fourth day of the
re-creation of earth when the calendar/clock in the sky was set (re-
set) for this generation of man. How long were the "days" before the
sun was set to define a day? My guess is that the sun's timing was
made to agree with the Creator's timing.
Our concept of time is not sufficient to the understanding of the
concept of eternity.
It's very conceivable that other worlds have been created. We have to
wonder how the creative ability of God has been used throughout
eternity. But as mere newbies to the Creator's power we are simply
awed.
Theda

On Sep 15, 3:51 pm, Wendell Benevides <wrbenevi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello you all,
> I agree with Mary,
>
> The time started when the universe begun. Wouldn't you say that time having
> not existed until the 4th day of creation is reading into the scriptures to
> make it fit doctrine? Why call it 4th day if there was no time? How is it
> possible to say "In the beginning" if there was no time? In this case, this
> beginning would be in a time-less dimension, a never ending beginning that
> would still be going on the same way God is.
>
> Wendell
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:29 PM, mary <mary7b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  Hi Theda,
>
> > My question was in reference to something that I think Donna or someone
> > said about ""the dimension of time not existing until the 4th day of
> > creation week.""
>
> > I don't have a problem embracing the idea that the appointed times were
> > created on the 4th day of creation week, I think that is the point and
> > purpose of that verse, perhaps even the entire purpose of it.  I do

> > however have the *point of view* that *time* in some variation

> > has co-existed within and a part of the universe, likely created a very long
> > time ago, and that the space-time continuum was in that beginning woven
> > together and has likely continued interwoven since its inception, just my
> > opinion, and like they say, everyone has one.  So in short, I don't think
> > the dimension of time came into existence on the 4th day of creation.
>
> > But I don't leave out that possibility that there could have been other
> > dimesions and creations that God toyed with before settling on this

> > particular configuration of things for *His babies nursery.  * We have to

> > remain clueless to such things if that is the case until and unless He
> > chooses to show us otherwise but so far I haven't seen that revealed, just
> > the space-time blend that we are coming to understand a little tiny bit
> > about.
>
> >  ~~mary
> > Romans 8:28

> > **
>
> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* Theda <thedahor...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* The Ten Commandments Calendar <
> > the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:50:08 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: About The Calendar moon observance

[Wendell Benevides]

I don't think we can ever comprehend eternity. Since the beginning of time is the beginning of history, we can't account for anything - except maybe a spiritual dimension. So, the universe, being physical, is all that has been, at least for us.

Here comes that same issue with the Sabbath that I talked about in an earlier discussion. When is the Sabbath for God? Since he's not bound by time, then he's eternally in a Sabbath. There's no Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for a being like God. Counting time can only work for us. Its Wednesday morning for me, and its the end of the day in Japan... in a few hours its going to be Thursday there. So I wonder which day God is taking into account. Our Wednesday or Japan's Thursday? Maybe neither!

The same for Friday / Saturday.

So, if a entering Canaan in the Hebrew Scriptures or the Millennium in the Greek Scriptures, and a 24 hour day - all three represent a Sabbath for God, then Sabbath is more of a concept. He can take all into account as being the same.

Would it be the same for us when we are spirit? Would every day be Sabbath like? Is being in the presence of Almighty God like entering the rest?

Sorry I don't want to change the subject - but I think that they are linked.

--
~.W.~

[bill acord]

Good read wendell http://www.v-a.com/bible/genesis_1-4.html May God Bless America      Bill acord (notaxbill) --- On Tue, 9/15/09, Wendell Benevides <wrben...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Wendell Benevides]

I've read them over and over.

And not just me, but billions of people. And still we can't agree on what it is really saying.

Wendell

--
~.W.~

[bill acord]

This I sent you is Aramaic Bible---- different not trying to prove anything.

May God Bless America      Bill acord (notaxbill)

[Theda]

Who commands the Creator to keep Sabbath? It's the other way around.

Sabbath is still the seventh day of the week as the Lord of the
Sabbath demonstrated in the wilderness by the lesson of manna. Even
Constantine's effort to change the seventh-day Sabbath to the first
day of the week has maintained the order of the days.
Sunset of the sixth day travels around the world following the sun.
The Lord has no difficulty knowing when and where Sabbath occurs.
Apparently you do. No problem. Only God will judge you. You allow
that
He can "take all into account as being the same." You might remind
Him
of that when you stand before Him to explain why you rejected the
sign
that identifies our Creator as the One we worship and obey.

Should I quote Re. 10:6 again? The Lord (of the Sabbath) reveals that
"there shall be time no longer" and at the sound of the seventh trump
the mystery of God shall be finished.
I'm not sure who you mean when you say, "I don't think WE can ever
comprehend eternity." Can you understand that the increments of days,
weeks, months, years as delineated by our sun and moon apply only to
Earth? Surely you don't think that God the Father and God the Lord of
the Sabbath sitting on
the throne in heaven looking down at our solar system are concerned
about which day THEY should rest. Do you?

Have you not understood the significance of the Feasts of the Lord?
The Feast of Tabernacles is all about living in booths, tents,
temporary dwelling places. The lesson (in case you truly don't
understand) is that our physical bodies are temporary. The Lord of
Sabbath "tabernacled" with us in the form of Jesus of Nazareth.
This generation of man (physical) has been alloted 6000 years (but is
to be
cut short before we destroy all forms of life on Earth) which will be
followed by a grand Sabbath, still here on Earth, (the seventh 1000-
year period) when the Lord returns to set up His Kingdom here. During
that "seventh day" Satan will be bound, unable to interfere. It will
be an era of great peace with flesh and blood mankind having a
lifespan of 100 years. Toward the end of this time Satan will be
released, and all who still reject God's dominion will be destroyed,
whether human or spirit beings. Following this is the Last Great Day,
the eighth day of a seven day feast when "there will be time no
longer"; Eternity in the world of the Spirit. When mankind has
progressed from physical to spirit, the re-generation of man (read
Matthew 19:28), the earthly restrictions of time will no longer
apply.

Theda

> ...
>
> read more »

[Wendell Benevides]

No need for exasperation.

Sabbath as designed day of rest is between the evenings from the 6th to the 7th day of the week. Although some disagree when this should happen as there are those who believe we should base the counting on the phases of the moon.

But we pick and choose which law we'll "spiritualize" and those which we don't - for some reason, probably because we don't see fit. Some we spiritualize some we don't (stoning, circumcision, tithing, etc). What if the spirit of the Sabbath law is something we ignore altogether and make it the observance of a certain day the true sign of the true disciple?

There are different requirements throughout the Bible. Paul seemed to believe that all was needed was to believe in the resurrection. Jesus said that good works would separate the sheep from the goats (among other things he said), others say its the Sabbath.

As far as I know, I have not rejected the Sabbath. I take a day of rest but a little less strict.  I just see things a little different if you believe this is the true sign, that's ok with me. At the end, we will all stand in his presence.

Now, suppose I kept the Sabbath the best way possible and on the right day, and but ignored the needy? Wouldn't God say "shame on you" on the day I face him? Just a question...

Rev 6:10 - The word chronos is translated differently in different versions of the Scriptures. It *can* mean time, but also delay, age, period... The New American Standard Bible scholars believe it means delay. I don't know enough Greek to argue one or the other. Do you? 

BTW - I've used the illustration of God waiting for the Sun to cross the skies so he can go to sleep in this forum. If you remember, that's not what I believe. 

Since that's not what he does I ask: How did God keep the Sabbath on the 7th day of Genesis? If he did, then was it only once? Does he keep it weekly? If so, which hemisphere? Western? Or both? If he doesn't why is this the sign of true worship? 

We know that in his presence, we'll not be restricted by passing of time because we'll be the same type of beings. So will we keep the Sabbath? If yes, how? By keeping up with the earth revolving around the sun? Is it what God does?

Now we believe he's observing us keeping the Sabbath. He notes that some refuse to eat on a restaurant. Some refuse to turn on their lights, some mow their yard and some sleep through the whole thing. It's hard to tell if we're doing it right. Where should we draw the line? Where does God draw the line? Some make it sound like if we go out to eat on the Sabbath we're utterly breaking the law. I felt that way before.

Things get pretty confusing when we start to ask a few more questions. I don't reject God and his teachings. But, maybe I have the need for more answers than the average.

Thanks!

Wendell

--
~.W.~

[Pat]

In Genesis 1, after six days God rested on the 7th day. The sun and
moon were set in place to mark times and seasons on day 4, so days as
we know them started on day 4 as has been discussed. On day one, there
was darkness, then light was created, and the darkness and the light
were the first day. On day 2 the evening and the morning were the 2nd
day, and likewise, the evening and the morning were the 3rd day. Those
3 first days weren't like number 4 and onward, but they were counted
as part of the 6 days leading up to the 7th day of rest.

I heard a discussion about this in a forum and everyone had different
ideas. Some thought one revolution of the earth made those first days.
I saw a documentary about how the moon affects the earth, and a
revolution of the earth probably was a different length of time before
the moon was put in place. But whatever it was, God said it was a day,
so it was a day.

We're also told that a day is as 1000 years to God. Adam was told that
on the day he ate of the fruit he would die. He died at age 930, just
before the end of his 1000 year day. It says exactly that in the Book
of Jubilees, and in the NT it says this:

2 Pet.3 :8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one
day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one
day.

Pat

[Theda]

Wendell, despite my frankness and blunt words this is written in a
"soft voice".

Exasperation is probably the right word, knowing that you have the
same resources that I have and that you have studied enough to know
what our Creator expects from us. Yet your questions seem to be
defiant and presumptuous.
You seemingly presume that our Creator is bound to rest every Sabbath
day, yet you know that as the earth orbits around the sun, the seventh
day Sabbath never occurs at the same time the world over but
successively as the days do. I have never read anywhere in the Bible,
nor have you, that God will rest every seventh day of the week. I
have read, and so have you, that He commands us to do so as a
memorial to the week of creation for our benefit.
“Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and
you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD
that doth sanctify you” (Ex 31:13).
“It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever:
for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day
he rested, and was refreshed” (Ex 31:17).
Sabbath was never created to be a burden but to be a rest from our
daily labor.. The Lord explained in Mark 2: 27, 28 - . “…The sabbath
was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of
man is Lord also of the Sabbath.”

Never have I read in holy scripture, nor have you, that we are to use
the moon to count the days to Sabbath. However, God has given us the
right to choose.
“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A
blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I
command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the
commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which
I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not
known “ (De 11:26-28).
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live” (De 30:
19).

There is an account of how the timing of the Sabbath was re-
established to the newly liberated Tribes of Israel as they made their
way from Egypt through the wilderness. You already know about the
lesson of the manna.. There was no mention of the moon phase. That’s
what I find exasperating. You already know!
And that begs the question that you should ask yourself: Where or what
is the reason that is causing you to stumble over the plain truth? My
suggestion is that you discuss that with the Lord. He’s a great
listener. You might read and meditate on Psalms 34:18, Psalms 51:17
and Isaiah 57:15.

In an earlier post you asked: “Now, suppose I kept the Sabbath the

best way possible and on the right day, and but ignored the needy?
Wouldn't God say ‘shame on you’ on the day I face him? Just a

question... “
Here’s your answer that you’ve had all along:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in
one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit
adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet
if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law” (James
2:10,11).
You know that the Law is comprised of the Ten Commandments and are
summarized by Jesus Christ as the First and Second Great Commandments
in Matthew 22:37,38,39. You know that sin is defined as transgression
of the law.
The Lord said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
As the LORD of the Old Testament, He said, “O that there were such an
heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments
always, that it might be well with them and their children for
ever!” (De 5:29).

Regardless of what others (including me) think or believe or teach
about our relationship with God - It's your relationship to God that
matters to you. You will not be judged on what others believe. Sure,
it's good to "shop around", but don't let anyone else make your
decisions and commitments for you. It's between you and the Lord. I
know you to be highly intelligent and sincere. The confusion reflected
in your questions is surprising.
Theda

> ...
>
> read more »

[bill acord]

Theda I see no defiance in Wendell's question at all he ask a very good question. I understand his question as you seem to have skipped the first one. I found that question a very good one. "Sabbath as designed day of rest is between the evenings from the 6th to the

> 7th day of the week. Although some disagree when this should happen as there > are those who believe we should base the counting on the phases of the moon. > But we pick and choose which law we'll "spiritualize" and those which we > don't - for some reason, probably because we don't see fit. Some we > spiritualize some we don't (stoning, circumcision, tithing, etc). What if > the spirit of the Sabbath law is something we ignore altogether and make it > the observance of a certain day the true sign of the true disciple?"

You use the term throughout your generations forever. That forever is Olum and it is an undetermined amount of time Always with a beginning and an ending. I am not defiant and I believe the Sabbath is in Christ daily as a new way of life. Here is a list of throughout your generations. We can't pick and choose. Some people use this term to prove a point in the process leave some out. Throughout your generations Numbers 15:21 21 Throughout the generations to come you are to give this offering to the LORD from the first of your ground meal. Numbers 15:38 (New International Version) 38 "Speak to the Israelite s and say to them: 'Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. # Exodus 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. (This word forever is Olum or eon.)an undetermined amount of time with a begin and end. Exodus 12:13-15 (in Context) Exodus 12 (Whole Chapter) # Exodus 30:8 And when Aaron lighteth the lamps at even, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations. Exodus 30:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 30 (Whole Chapter) # Exodus 30:10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD. Exodus 30:9-11 (in Context) Exodus 30 (Whole Chapter) Exodus 30:31 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations. Exodus 30:30-32 (in Context) Exodus 30 (Whole Chapter) # Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Exodus 31:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter) # Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. Leviticus 3:16-17 (in Context) Leviticus 3 (Whole Chapter) # Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: Leviticus 10:8-10 (in Context) Leviticus 10 (Whole Chapter) # Leviticus 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.(Again Forever is a bad translation eon or Olum.) Leviticus 23:13-15 (in Context) Leviticus 23 (Whole Chapter) # Leviticus 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. (Again forever is wrong) Leviticus 23:20-22 (in Context) Leviticus 23 (Whole Chapter) Genesis 17 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." The word everlasting is Olum or eon. (Again bad translation.) 9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

May God Bless America      Bill acord (notaxbill)

--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Theda <theda...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Theda <theda...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: About The Calendar moon observance To: "The Ten Commandments Calendar" <the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com>

[Wendell Benevides]

Hello my friend,

One thing I don't want to do for sure is make this forum of yours about what I believe or not. So I apologize - it is not my intention. 

Is the keeping of a day of rest *the* sign or *a* sign? What other signs are we not keeping? If I break this particular sign am I in big trouble?

Some would say breaking any law is wrong but we do all the time. I don't wear tassels. It is also a sign.

The reason of my last reply to you, is that I felt a little aggravation on your side and somehow I felt - I hope I am wrong - that if I did not have the right understand about the sabbath, then I have rejected God.

Well, I believe that some Christian Jews felt the same way about circumcision in the first century. But now we believe they were wrong - circumcision was very painful and maybe that was a block in the way for the gentiles to become Christians. Some argued, and we agree, that real circumcision is of the heart.

I ask: What is real Sabbath keeping? Even though the physical part of it is important, the application must go beyond that. The circumcision was replaced with a better understanding of what its purpose was. As those who did not have the law but kept laws in their hearts would judge those who had the law but did not keep them.

I just don't think that having the right understanding about an issue like that Sabbath, that is not so clear in the scriptures (they were arguing about it at the time of Jesus, 4,000 years after the law was established and today we are arguing about it, 6,000 years after), and make it a requirement of proof of one's acceptance or rejection of God. There are many more requirements that a believer must have - the sabbath being one of them.

Wendell

--
~.W.~

[Theda]

These are good questions, Wendell. Thanks for asking.

Wendell:
One thing I don't want to do *for sure* is make this forum of yours

about what I believe or not. So I apologize - it is not my
intention.

Theda:
This forum is nothing without group participation. Let me repeat what
Mary said: "Honestly, the fact that we have this conversation at all

is because we continue to seek out what God has given to us to have
joy, to become like Him, to search out His ways, to look for that
light to direct our path, the way of loving submission to our Great
and Loving Creator. We should respect each other even in our
differences and be bonded in our dedication to seek the truth."

Wendell:

Is the keeping of a day of rest *the* sign or *a* sign?

Ex 31:13
“Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY
SABBATHS (plural) SHALL YE KEEP: FOR IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU
THROUGHOUT YOUR GENERATIONS that ye may know that I am the Lord that
doth sanctify you.”

Wendell: If I break this particular sign am I in big trouble?

James, a Servant of God::

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said
also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law” (James 2:10,11).

Theda:
I think it’s safe to say that we have all “fallen short” and
transgressed the Law. We are a work in progress strive daily to meet
the standard God requires. We have the Ten Commandments to define the
Law. According to scripture Jesus of Nazareth, the Anointed One, is
the only human to be entirely successful in abiding by that law.
Because of His faithfulness we can repent and be forgiven by God the
Father.
The goal is life without sin which results in the character of God.

Wendell:

What other signs are we not keeping?

Theda:
I wouldn’t say that we are not keeping them, at least, to the best of
our understanding and ability. The commandments and Sabbaths (weekly
and
annual Feasts of the Lord) are God’s sign that we are to place in our
“right hands and foreheads”. This was introduced early in Israel’s
history as a physical act to bring about the desired spiritual
affect.

Ex 13:9
Referring to the Feast of Unleavened Bread, “AND IT SHALL BE FOR A
SIGN unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes,
that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath
the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.10 Thou shalt therefore keep this
ordinance in his season from year to year.”
Ex 13:16
And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and
for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD
brought us forth out of Egypt

Wendell:

Some would say breaking any law is wrong but we do all the time. I
don't wear tassels. It is also a sign.

Theda:
No. It’s not a sign. It’s a physical exercise to remind the wearer to
obey God’s commandments.
Nu 15:38 - Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they
make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their
generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a
ribband of blue:
Nu 15:39 - And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look
upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them;
…

Jesus Christ:
“…The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat…BUT DO YE NOT
AFTER THEIR WORKS: for they say, and do not…they bind heavy burdens
and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulder…they
themselves will not move them … all their works they do for to be seen
of men: they make broad their phylacteries and enlarge the borders of
their garments…” Matthew 23: 1-6.

Theda:
If you need a blue fringe sewn into the corner of your garment to
remind you to keep the Lord’s commandments then do it, but for your
eyes only. It’s a good subliminal technique for teaching children of
any age. Other subliminal techniques include binding the Commandments
to the forehead as frontlets between the eyes (seat of the will) and
to the right hand (acceptance and agreement).

De 6:4 - 9
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love
the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with
all thy might. [The Lord reiterated these words in Matthew 22:37,38,
describing it as the First Great Commandment]. 6 And these words,
which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:7 And thou
shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them
when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way,
and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt
BIND THEM FOR A SIGN upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy
house, and on thy gates .

De 11:18
Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your
soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as
frontlets between your eyes

Wendell:

What is real Sabbath keeping? Even though the physical part of it is
important, the application must go beyond that. The circumcision was
replaced with a better understanding of what its purpose was. As those
who did not have the law but kept laws in their hearts would judge
those who had the law but did not keep them. I just don't think that
having the right understanding about an issue like that Sabbath, that
is not so clear in the scriptures (they were arguing about it at the
time of Jesus, 4,000 years after the law was established and today we
are arguing about it, 6,000 years after), and make it a requirement of
proof of one's acceptance or rejection of God. There are many more
requirements that a believer must have - the sabbath being one of
them.

Theda:
No one is required to prove anything to anyone else about our
relationship with God. It’s as personal as it gets. Only God has the
right to judge us. He has given us His commandments, Sabbaths and
Feasts as signs to identify Him, the God we worship, as the Creator.
He knows who we are. His people obey Him.
As to Sabbath keeping: These are physical “works” that bear spiritual
fruit. They reveal God’s plan for us. They are the means to developing
the character of God necessary for those who will be in the re-
generation of man. They identify the one we worship, our God, as the
Creator.
We are cheating ourselves when we reject God’s way which is defined by
His commandments and His weekly and annual Sabbaths. There are
promises and rewards attached to His Sabbaths.

Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy
pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of
the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways,
nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then
shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride
upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of
Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Theda:
Remember His Sabbaths. Be aware of what they represent. If you have a
need - take care of it. If possible, schedule what you consider labor
or work for the other six days and rest yourself of burdens and care
on the Sabbath. If you find yourself involved in activities contrary
to what you consider acceptable, then pray about it. If others like to
eat out or buy groceries or whatever on Sabbath - it's between them
and Lord. He knows our hearts and understands. If it hurts your
conscience for you to do something on Sabbath then think twice about
it and listen to your conscience. Ask the Lord to help you with better
understanding and a resolution of your problem. The Lord has never
given us “mission impossible“. However, “mission difficult” builds
spiritual muscle and if we let Him, He will guide us all the way.
When “thine own ways” and “thine own pleasure” and “thine own words”
become all about “delighting thyself in the Lord” then you will have
reconciled your way with His way. There is a great reward for that,
straight from “the mouth of the Lord”.

Theda:
One more thing. Note that when we have God’s sign or mark (Sabbaths,
Commandments) in our right hand and forehead (sealed by His Spirit -
He gives His Spirit only to those who obey Him) there will be no room
for the mark or sign of the Beast. God's marks, while less popular,
are
still more powerful than the mark of the Beast. There’s our ultimate
choice.
Good questions, Wendell. Thanks for the discussion opportunity.
T.

[mary]

Our God is well able to guide us in the direction we should go and will do so to those willing to yield to Him.  In my opinion, and everyone has one, it is okay to ask questions and to continually ask for guidance and correction as we deepen our devotion to the Good and Great God who loves us.  I keep the 7th day Sabbath from sunset to sunset but I eat out on the Sabbath with brethren because I love them and that is time we can fellowship.  Is it wrong? One will say yes, another will say no, but as you said, regardless of what anyone says this is a part of my relationship with God and in my relationship it supercedes the letter of the law but, I realize that I must take care that "spiritualizing," or theorizing, apply philosophy etc., can lead us away from the plain words of God if we are not alert.

 

We can actually prove anything by scripture when it is subjective. 

 

It is always good to look at the intent of the law to discern as nearly as possible the purpose.  The intent of the Sabbath is more than an identifier that was given to the nation of Israel.  Before it was a sign of a people, it was made at the creation of mankind (nothing you all don't know) for multiple purposes.

 

Mankind needs a rest every seven days, we are made that way.

Mankind needs time to set aside with the Creator and those with God's HS - conversion makes us that way.

The seventh day is a reminder of creation in a way that no other day can be, God made it that way.

The seventh day allows for a time for assembling with like minded believers, we have that commonality that is lost if everyone does every-day.

 

A person can spiritualize the Sabbath just as a person can "fall in love" and commit adultery and justify it in their heart and mind.  The ten commandments give us firm guidelines for what should not be "spiritualized" away for our own good.  It is not that we would necessarily lose salvation if we have an understanding about the Sabbath being "all time" but we miss the intent that God made it for, a gift for us, we lose out. 

 

We should accept the gift of the Sabbath and treasure it and not theorize why that gift should blend into the whole great gift of life and all else that God gives us, imo, if that makes any sense.
 

~~mary
Romans 8:28

 

 

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From: Wendell Benevides <wrben...@gmail.com>
To: the-ten-comman...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:54:53 PM

Subject: Re: About The Calendar moon observance