thoughts after Namaste
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heathaho
Mar 23, 2009, 1:41:31 PM3/23/09
to The Orchid
Ok so a few thoughts after viewing Namaste:
1. A possible reasoning for why Sun & Ben did not flash off the plane
into 1977 with the other Losties, but instead crashed into what we
assume is 2007....
It could possibly be due to the fact that it happens so that they
don't run into their earlier 1977 selves on the island. We know
already that Ben, as a boy grew up most of his childhood in Dharma.
Now originally I was thinking that Pierre Chang's baby (as seen in the
first episode of the season) was possibly Miles. Now I am thinking
that maybe it could possibly be Sun. And she was taken away from the
island at an early age and possibly adopted/raised or related to Mr.
& Mrs. Paik or something. Either that or at some point in the past Mr.
Paik was on the island too! I have a feeling there may be more of a
tie in with Mr. Paik down the line. But a hole in my theory would be
that: Why, when the Losties who stayed back on the island where
flashing back and forth through time....they were allowed to be in the
same time/year/2004 when they were inhabiting the island....Locke was
close by and saw the light shine up through the hatch door and knew
that night he had been there, sawyer saw kate delivering claire's
baby. Also wondering Lapidus' status...had he been on the island 30
years prior? We don't know for sure.
2. When Sun & Lapids return to "other villagage" it looks as if it is
an alternate village of some sort.
When the others lived there in 2004, they had cleaned up most of the
Dharma stuff. But when Sun & Lapids return we see Dharma registration
signs that had fallen over etc. Plus.....the fact that there are
photos of the Losties from Dharma registration 1977....wouldn't anyone
(of the 2004 others) have ever noticed that....including Juliet from
2004? I know that the village got pretty messed up after Kemy and
crew & the smoke monster were there.....but I don't remember it
looking quite like that with all of the Dharma signs etc. I am
wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that
the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future. I
know that Daniel said that it didn't matter, no matter what you do, it
won't change the future. But what if he was wrong, there was something
he didn't realize, or possibly he was just lying?.......
3. And finally, something I heard from someone else: If we remember,
when Ben showed Locke the pit of Dharma bodies from the purge and he
said to him "I was one of the people that was smart enough to make
sure that I didn't end up in that ditch"..... "one of the
people"...... which means that Ben was not the only surviving member
of Dharma that converted over to a hostile/other. Obviously, we now
know that Ian was one of them....but also I believe his mother Amy
came over as well. In the episode where we see the crash (from the
view of the others), Juliet is having her book club, and a woman named
Amelia arrives early and is talking with her. She also jokes with
Ethan on the way there. The question here for me is....if this is
indeed Amy, they either 1. Changed her name so Juliet wouldn't
recognize/remember her.... if that's possible? or to not create any
sort of riff in the time line, or 2. Does Juliet know this all along
and is wiser about everything that is going on than she lets the
Losties know? Predestination paradox or something?
Alternate timelines?
Just some random thoughts/theories that may or may not work out that
have been rattling around in my noggin.
I think I need an asprin.
1. A possible reasoning for why Sun & Ben did not flash off the plane
into 1977 with the other Losties, but instead crashed into what we
assume is 2007....
It could possibly be due to the fact that it happens so that they
don't run into their earlier 1977 selves on the island. We know
already that Ben, as a boy grew up most of his childhood in Dharma.
Now originally I was thinking that Pierre Chang's baby (as seen in the
first episode of the season) was possibly Miles. Now I am thinking
that maybe it could possibly be Sun. And she was taken away from the
island at an early age and possibly adopted/raised or related to Mr.
& Mrs. Paik or something. Either that or at some point in the past Mr.
Paik was on the island too! I have a feeling there may be more of a
tie in with Mr. Paik down the line. But a hole in my theory would be
that: Why, when the Losties who stayed back on the island where
flashing back and forth through time....they were allowed to be in the
same time/year/2004 when they were inhabiting the island....Locke was
close by and saw the light shine up through the hatch door and knew
that night he had been there, sawyer saw kate delivering claire's
baby. Also wondering Lapidus' status...had he been on the island 30
years prior? We don't know for sure.
2. When Sun & Lapids return to "other villagage" it looks as if it is
an alternate village of some sort.
When the others lived there in 2004, they had cleaned up most of the
Dharma stuff. But when Sun & Lapids return we see Dharma registration
signs that had fallen over etc. Plus.....the fact that there are
photos of the Losties from Dharma registration 1977....wouldn't anyone
(of the 2004 others) have ever noticed that....including Juliet from
2004? I know that the village got pretty messed up after Kemy and
crew & the smoke monster were there.....but I don't remember it
looking quite like that with all of the Dharma signs etc. I am
wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that
the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future. I
know that Daniel said that it didn't matter, no matter what you do, it
won't change the future. But what if he was wrong, there was something
he didn't realize, or possibly he was just lying?.......
3. And finally, something I heard from someone else: If we remember,
when Ben showed Locke the pit of Dharma bodies from the purge and he
said to him "I was one of the people that was smart enough to make
sure that I didn't end up in that ditch"..... "one of the
people"...... which means that Ben was not the only surviving member
of Dharma that converted over to a hostile/other. Obviously, we now
know that Ian was one of them....but also I believe his mother Amy
came over as well. In the episode where we see the crash (from the
view of the others), Juliet is having her book club, and a woman named
Amelia arrives early and is talking with her. She also jokes with
Ethan on the way there. The question here for me is....if this is
indeed Amy, they either 1. Changed her name so Juliet wouldn't
recognize/remember her.... if that's possible? or to not create any
sort of riff in the time line, or 2. Does Juliet know this all along
and is wiser about everything that is going on than she lets the
Losties know? Predestination paradox or something?
Alternate timelines?
Just some random thoughts/theories that may or may not work out that
have been rattling around in my noggin.
I think I need an asprin.
wesley gunn
Mar 23, 2009, 2:19:48 PM3/23/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
yeah for your # 1 I had the same thoughts, but I can't figure it out,
cuz every Idea I have has too many holes in it. As for this:
I am
wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that
the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future.
I was thinking the same thing. I know what D said, but it seems as if
they did alter it...unless there are more than one of those camp
sites...--
Wes
Wesley Gunn Creative
http://www.wesleygunn.com
I am
wondering, are they in an alternate timeline now, due to the fact that
the Losties back in 1977 somehow did something to alter the future.
Wes
Wesley Gunn Creative
http://www.wesleygunn.com
khar...@aol.com
Mar 23, 2009, 3:07:11 PM3/23/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
Well, doesn't Lost time theory assume that time is a loop, so therefore there aren't "alternate" timelines?
moond...@aol.com
Mar 23, 2009, 3:15:57 PM3/23/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
aka the back to the future theory of time. yeah i don't think the lost creators would delve into that theory since they seem to be pretty up on Dr. Kaku's which is always linear.
Dan D.
Mar 28, 2009, 6:11:32 PM3/28/09
to The Orchid
I think they're in a time after the purge and before the Others
inhabit Dharmaville. I'm pretty sure Chang's baby is a boy (I think
they say "he" to refer to the baby). It could be though that Mr. Paik
has some connection with Widmore, and that Paik Industries and
Widmore's business (is it shipping?) and Oceanic and Ajira are all
connected (also, we're lead to believe that since Ben's lawyer, Mr.
Norton, also works for Oceanic, Ben could be involved in the airline
industry). Interesting then that there's airline, shipping, and
automobiles. Planes, boats, and cars. And time travel. Stretching it,
but maybe some connection there.
I don't think Amy would go over to the side of the people who killed
Paul and almost killed her. She seems pretty anti-hostiles, especially
with her wanting Sayid dead. I have a feeling Ethan (who is 15 when
the purge happens) is either stolen by the Others and raised by them,
or Ben spares all the kids during the purge, and uses them to boost
the Others' membership? Ben's quote does hint that there were some
people who defected from Dharma...
inhabit Dharmaville. I'm pretty sure Chang's baby is a boy (I think
they say "he" to refer to the baby). It could be though that Mr. Paik
has some connection with Widmore, and that Paik Industries and
Widmore's business (is it shipping?) and Oceanic and Ajira are all
connected (also, we're lead to believe that since Ben's lawyer, Mr.
Norton, also works for Oceanic, Ben could be involved in the airline
industry). Interesting then that there's airline, shipping, and
automobiles. Planes, boats, and cars. And time travel. Stretching it,
but maybe some connection there.
I don't think Amy would go over to the side of the people who killed
Paul and almost killed her. She seems pretty anti-hostiles, especially
with her wanting Sayid dead. I have a feeling Ethan (who is 15 when
the purge happens) is either stolen by the Others and raised by them,
or Ben spares all the kids during the purge, and uses them to boost
the Others' membership? Ben's quote does hint that there were some
people who defected from Dharma...
Bryan Dunn
Mar 28, 2009, 6:20:08 PM3/28/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
I don't think they can be between those times, since there was a runway on the hydra island, which is what Sawyer and Kate were building back in the 3rd season.
Dan D'Ippolito
Mar 29, 2009, 2:19:59 PM3/29/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
I don't remember Kate and Sawyer building a runway. According to Lostpedia, the Others built it: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Runway
Dan D'Ippolito
Mar 29, 2009, 2:23:04 PM3/29/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
Wait, nevermind, Kate and Sawyer did work on it!
moond...@aol.com
Mar 29, 2009, 2:26:17 PM3/29/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
you're banned.
From: Dan D'Ippolito <mr.d...@gmail.com>
To: the-o...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: thoughts after Namaste
Dan D'Ippolito
Mar 29, 2009, 3:04:30 PM3/29/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
This banning is well deserved.
So then right, if the runway is complete, we must be in current time. And also because we're seeing Christian. So in that case, it does seem that (as heathaho suggested) Sun and Lapidus came across an altered future, as if Dharma had abandoned the place decades ago and the Others never lived there. If the Others did live there, they wouldn't have left up photos of annual Dharma recruitment parties.
LOST time does seem to follow a loop (otherwise people couldn't travel back in time to effect events that already happened before they intervened, or were even born) but being fiction, the rules don't necessarily need to be explicitly followed. One of the biggest themes of the show is destiny, but having a predetermined fate suggests that nothing and no one can change for the better, which is a pretty dark, depressing point of view, especially for a roster of characters with such personal issues. Doesn't it seem like the writers would definitely want to make a point that people are powerful and can make up for their mistakes and affect positive change? So then (depressed, eccentric) Daniel could be incorrect in saying that what's done is done, which is a pretty lame point of view to have anyway. The show might want to make a point that rules can be broken, and hard science can be broken down by the human will (or some such semi-sappy, pro-humanity sentiment). And if Daniel really believed he couldn't change the future, why did he knock on Desmond's hatch and tell him to go find his mother (unless that too was part of the plan)? If we're in a time loop, then everything that ever happened has already happened, right? That would kind of suck.
So then right, if the runway is complete, we must be in current time. And also because we're seeing Christian. So in that case, it does seem that (as heathaho suggested) Sun and Lapidus came across an altered future, as if Dharma had abandoned the place decades ago and the Others never lived there. If the Others did live there, they wouldn't have left up photos of annual Dharma recruitment parties.
LOST time does seem to follow a loop (otherwise people couldn't travel back in time to effect events that already happened before they intervened, or were even born) but being fiction, the rules don't necessarily need to be explicitly followed. One of the biggest themes of the show is destiny, but having a predetermined fate suggests that nothing and no one can change for the better, which is a pretty dark, depressing point of view, especially for a roster of characters with such personal issues. Doesn't it seem like the writers would definitely want to make a point that people are powerful and can make up for their mistakes and affect positive change? So then (depressed, eccentric) Daniel could be incorrect in saying that what's done is done, which is a pretty lame point of view to have anyway. The show might want to make a point that rules can be broken, and hard science can be broken down by the human will (or some such semi-sappy, pro-humanity sentiment). And if Daniel really believed he couldn't change the future, why did he knock on Desmond's hatch and tell him to go find his mother (unless that too was part of the plan)? If we're in a time loop, then everything that ever happened has already happened, right? That would kind of suck.
moond...@aol.com
Mar 30, 2009, 9:42:57 AM3/30/09
to the-o...@googlegroups.com
Personally, I never thought Sun and Lapidus were in an alternate future. I assumed the Dharma camp we saw was just the same one we last saw getting destroyed by Widmore's men. Still, it is kind of odd that they chose to show the orientation sign hanging and the Dharma group photos. Couldn't they have been left there all along by the Others? After all the Others seem to have no problem taking on many of Dharma's characteristics.
As for the time loop, I think that's a very strong possibilty. The producers now (more than ever) seem to really be pushing the whole control vs destiny theme. In the end, I think we'll find (as Dan said) our protagonists able to shift the course of fate.
As for the time loop, I think that's a very strong possibilty. The producers now (more than ever) seem to really be pushing the whole control vs destiny theme. In the end, I think we'll find (as Dan said) our protagonists able to shift the course of fate.
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