R/H Outtakes

[sinisterDei]

I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this - referring to your first R/
H outtake Ambidextrous, or any further ones you might release. I just
wanted to post encouragement - I really liked it. I also think you
manage to satisfy multiple groups by releasing little shorts like that
as separate stories - like optional chapters. That way the silly H/G
purists don't get mad that you're giving page time to a different
pairing, and the people like me that like a more rounded view of life
in the world get to see that.

I don't know if you've read it - I would hope so, and you probably
have - but Viridian's Nightmares of Futures Past manages this feat
spectacularly IMHO. In that story, occasional page time is given to
what generally amounts to introspective monologue of various
characters - Hermione, Arthur & Molly, Dumbledore, etc. The point
being, 90% of the story occurs with Harry as the focal point of all
the action; we get to hear his viewpoints, thoughts, and actions
extensively. I truly think that occasionally swapping perspective to
someone else - even if you're reviewing the same events simply from a
different point of view - can add significantly to the depth of the
other characters in the story. I occasionally wish more authors would
take this kind of holistic view of their stories; too often, again in
my opinion, fanfiction simply picks a pairing or even a single
character and the world quite literally revolves around that person.
For me, that harms the realism and the immersive factor of a story,
because no matter how important a single character is, they can't
possibly be the ONLY important character.

Anyway, I've rambled a lot more than I thought I would. Quite simply,
I like the outtakes. I noticed that you'd only garnered a couple
reviews for Ambidextrous, so I added one there and then thought I'd
let you know I appreciated the work and thought it deserved a little
recognition. So, thanks :)

[Jade]

You're very welcome! It's always nice to get encouragement.

I have read Nightmares of Future's Past, and I agree with you that the
introspective moments do add to the story. However, while I was
reading it, I occasionally was pulled out of the "flow" of the story
by the perspective changes when most of the narrative is written in a
third person limited point of view. Don't get me wrong, NoFP is an
excellent story, but if I was going to offer constructive criticism I
would advise Viridian to pick either third person omniscient or third
person limited, rather than trying to get the best of both worlds.
That's what I've done in Soul Nexus - I decided that the third person
limited is where I want to go with it, hence the separate optional
scenes (I liked how you put it). I have two reasons for this - one, I
just don't have enough content to justify an omniscient point of view.
It would be much like NoFP in that it's only occasional, and would
happen in the middle of chapters. A good rule of thumb that I usually
follow is to only change points of view between chapters, or if you
absolutely must, only change once within a chapter, and make it feel
like it fits. I've seen this most often done when a story will spend
the day with the hero and the night with the villain. Even so, it's
best to do it in separate chapters. The second reason (if you read
closely) will become apparent in later (probably much later) chapters.
I've got something I want to do with the point of view that will
reflect Harry and Ginny's bond.

My point of view speech aside, I feel like Ron and Hermione deserve
some screen time and it's hard to get them in when Harry and Ginny are
so focused on themselves. I don't want this to become a Harry/Ginny
story and exclude everyone else, but it's hard to write about how two
people grow in a relationship without writing from at least one of
their perspectives. Most of them will probably be from Hermione's
point of view because my Ron is so blasted hard to write, but I'm
hoping to give y'all a peek into his head every once in a while.

As far as Harry and Ginny being the only important characters, keep an
eye out of Chapter 13. I alluded to it in Chapter 12, but in thirteen
we'll see three characters get a foothold in Harry's life that were
never really described in canon. I took eleven chapters to set up the
bond because it was an important foundation, but gradually other
things are going to get thrown in. 'Tis why the chapters are taking so
long to write - it feels like a whirlwind inside my head just thinking
about all I want to happen and how it's going to come about.

I saw a lot of comments about Ambidextrous in my reviews for Chapter
11 of Soul Nexus, but it's awesome when people take time to comment on
both. So thank you for some awesome feedback - I look forward to more
if ya have it. =)

[sinisterDei]

I can understand your point about interrupting the 'flow' of things
quite well. NoFP is on the list of fanfics that have warranted a
second - or sometimes more - read thru, and while I truly enjoyed the
interludes I noticed myself tending to skim through them on a reread,
so I think that I unconsciously agreed with you :) I think your
solution is ideal, especially as you seem to have some plans for it
moving forward. I just know that, for me personally, depth of
characters is paramount, so the existence of chapters like these that
lend insight into the reasoning of the other characters is very
important.

I also think that Hermione is a great perspective to write from,
especially in comparison to Ron. Regardless of any difficulties that
might arise from writing from Ron's perspective, I think you would
simply be allowed to have more fun with Hermione because she is,
generally so much sharper a character than Ron. That means that her
internal monologue gets to deal with all the nuance that she picks up
that Ron would have missed, but you occasionally get to have fun with
the odd truth that she just can't seem to see when everyone else can.
For example SPEW - I think it would be quite funny to write from
Hermione's perspective about that, since from pretty much every other
character's perspective she's off her rocker, which doesn't occur all
that often for Hermione. Plus, if you wrote as Ron, every fifth and
tenth words respectively would have to be 'food' and 'quidditch' and
that wouldn't make for good reading :)

[Jade]

I agree with how Hermione is much more interesting to write and read,
but don't count Ron out. I'm going to develop him a little differently
than in canon, and though his character will be the same, I think
he'll be a fun character to read about. He's not been very prominent
because of his exclusion from the people who know about the bond, but
he'll be working his way in as the story progresses away from just
describing Harry and Ginny's problems.

I lol'd at writing SPEW from Hermione's perspective. We'll have to see
if SPEW makes it into my version of the Goblet of Fire events (you
never know what might change things), but that would be a lot of fun
and if I get the chance, I definitely would want to write it.

If you're interested in character development and having deep
characters that have reasons for doing things, why are Ron and
Hermione seeming to be better friends now? In canon, their
relationship only seems to get worse as things progress in third year,
but this time around they seem to be connecting better. It's something
most people haven't considered or haven't said anything about.

[sinisterDei]

With regards to Ron and Hermione getting along better, I hadn't
noticed either. Part of that is because them getting along simply
didn't strike me as odd - your story, for the most part, seems to have
- in some ways - moved characters' personalities closer towards the
later canon years as opposed to their original third year behavior and
I find myself forgetting what their age is supposed to be. But now
that you've drawn my attention to it, yes, I can see that Ron and
Hermione are, indeed, getting along much better than previously, and
not just in your outtake.

Now, as of yet I don't know *why* that is - other than the obvious
that you're the author and you decided and thus it was. If I had to
take a guess though, based on Ron and Harry's talk at some point, I'd
say that Ron has, on some level, decided that Harry is now Ginny's
primary protector. That leaves him with a protective instinct, and the
person he normally watches out for under the wing of someone else, so
he latches onto the next person he cares about - Hermione. Another
possibility, similar to my first guess there but from a slightly
different angle, is that Ron has smartly picked up that Harry and
Ginny are an item - even if they don't call themselves that. That
leaves him and Hermione from the original Trio, now just a duo, but in
a position to spend more time together alone than previously. He may
also, in general, be feeling a bit left out by the 'new' trio - H/G/
Hr, so maybe he's schooling himself in an attempt to prevent any
distance from opening up between him and his friends. These are just
guesses though, I'm sure you have something up your sleeve. Heck, you
could do whatever you want: maybe there's more than one soul bond
going on? Who knows :)

[Jade]

That would be amazing. I'll go ahead and rule out the Ron/Hermione
soul bond because we would have seen it in Ambidexterous, but I still
got all kinds of ideas from reading that. I can't imagine what kind of
reviews I would get if suddenly BAM, Hermione tells Harry and Ginny
that she and Ron are experiencing the same thing. It would be a
disaster for the story and what's going on, but oh god it would be
hilarious.

What I had in mind for Ron/Hermione getting along better was a lot
like your second "guess", though your first isn't wrong. Ron's comment
to Harry about not knowing what was going on, but knowing there was
something between him and Ginny should give you a clue as to what he's
thinking. Also consider what Ron saw in the Mirror of Erised when you
think about the Harry/Hermione/Ginny trio and him feeling left out.
It's pretty obvious that the three have something that Ron's not a
part of, and given that he desires most to be acknowledged and
commended for something, what is that going to make him think when he
gets left out of even small things?

In case you can't tell, Ron's psychology is a huge interest and source
of fun for me. ;)

Blarg. I'll have to fix that somehow, because I meant to show the
forced maturity on Harry and Ginny via soul bond, but I didn't mean to
do it that much. I just don't have a clue how to retroactively do it. -
ponders-

[sinisterDei]

Hehe, I don't think the maturity was overdone though. In fact, I
generally welcome it, not only in your story but in others. I tend to
be averse to stories that show Harry & Ginny - whether they are
together or not - as being immature. The reason is simple for me: I
don't think it would be possible for them to survive what they have
without being forced into maturity. And, in my opinion, generally in a
group of close friends maturity levels tend to level out among the
group, and I don't think that either Harry nor Ginny would regress, so
that means they will drag Ron and Hermione - one of the two of them
kicking and screaming - into being more mature. Either that or the
friendship or group will fracture.

I agree there will be a reckoning of sorts when Ron is finally let in
on the secret. Rather, I think you should write one - it's funny to
have conversations about the direction of a story with the author,
since I make suppositions and guesses and occasionally suggestions,
while you appear to do likewise but obviously are holding all the
cards :P What I do think also, though, is that with Harry and Ginny
having a larger insight into Hermione's life, that perhaps her
direction of year 3 should change. Specifically, it seems to me that
Ginny would be in character to harass Hermione into lightening her
course load before she breaks down. If not Ginny, then (fair warning,
me making an assumption) when Ron is let in on the bond secret, and
perhaps other secrets the new trio has been keeping, it would
*definitely* be within his character to confront Hermione about her
course load. Heck, he's already done it in a sideways manner in
Ambidextrous. Of course, I read Ambidextrous as him simply wanting to
be with Hermione for a while and making up the first excuse that came
to mind when called on it, but that doesn't mean that his excuse
doesn't have a streak of truth to it.

[Jade]

I think I read a similar opinion about maturity within a group in one
of Viridian's author's notes - and I agree, which is why Ron has seen
less screen time than Harry/Ginny/Hermione have. There are a couple of
reasons for this (his struggle to keep up being one of them), and they
should come to light in next few chapters. Everything happening around
Harry and Ginny has to calm down before I can start to bring Ron back
into the cast of main characters.

>> he's already done it in a sideways manner in Ambidextrous.

Exactly! I love it when I get across to readers exactly the way I want
to. Ron always seems to have the best intentions at heart, but he goes
about them in ways that the average person can only begin to
understand the reasoning behind. You're correct about him wanting to
spend time with Hermione, but don't downplay his big brother instinct.
Even though Hermione is older than he is, Ron has this strong desire
to be needed, and he thinks that if he can protect or help someone in
some way, that they'll want him around and actually appreciate him for
being himself. I don't think there's any evidence of this in canon,
but my Ron has a much deeper psychology than canon Ron. Also, he
genuinely cares about Hermione and wants to make sure she's okay, he
just doesn't know how to do it.

As far as Ginny harassing Hermione, not for now. Ginny is going to
understand that their friendship (if you can call it that) is on thin
ice, and she's not going to want to disturb that, if for the simple
reason that it would upset Harry. Perhaps later if they become better
friends, but for now Ginny will probably leave her alone. Ron, on the
other hand, is a completely different story.

You'd be surprised how many ideas I take from reviews/discussions with
readers (all warped to fit the story, of course), so feel free to
suggest away! =D

[sinisterDei]

>> I think I read a similar opinion about maturity within a group in one of Viridian's author's notes

I knew that sounded familiar as I was typing it. I don't know whether
I had the idea before he put it into my head or not, but now it's
there and I think it's true.

>> I don't think there's any evidence of this in canon

Perhaps not directly, but it's not much of a stretch in my opinion. We
know canon Ron has an inferiority complex. We know he has an
overprotective streak a mile long with regards to his sister. While in
canon he's pretty materialistic about it, we know that Ron is aware
that - to be perfectly honest - he doesn't have a lot to offer his
friends other than himself. As in, he's got no money; he's got no neat
toys; he hasn't got an overabundance of brainpower or academic
prowess. I'm not saying he is worthless, I'm just saying that with the
slightest bit of maturity Ron might very well realize that what he
does have to offer people is the way he can act toward them -
especially anyone smaller than him, since he does have physical size
going for him. I think this is why in many fanfics, one of three
things happens to Ron. 1 - he is vilified to a large extent - H/Hr
lovers like this one; 2 - he is ignored or otherwise highly minimized
- H/G purists abound!; 3 - those protective aspects of his nature are
embellished and brought out, generally in a more rounded fic.
Obviously I've not read all available fanfics out there, but those are
my general observations.

Also, from my observations of Ron in a mixture of canon, your
fanfiction, and others where they don't ignore him or turn him into an
annoyance or bad guy, I think that another reason he would pick
Hermione is that in addition to liking her he feels she needs the
protection. This is not to say that he would ever want to place
himself in a duel with her or anything; what I mean is that Hermione
*does* need someone to protect her - mostly from herself. In canon,
good examples of this would again be SPEW, but also Hermione's naive
early interactions with Rita Skeeter as well as her blind acceptance
of authority. One might also make a good argument for her not being a
particularly good judge of character: aside from Lockhart, she also
managed to thoroughly ignore Harry in HBP with regards to Draco, and
more-or-less held unwavering, if reluctant, trust in Snape. Regardless
of whether Snape ended up on the side of the light or the dark during
the final reckoning, no sane person can make an argument for him being
a *good* guy, and he definitely didn't engender trust in those around
him, but there Hermione was. Not that she would accept it, but
Hermione would do well to have a miniature Ron sitting on her shoulder
(or a full sized one whispering into her ear - take your pick)
pointing out the things that are obvious to others but invisible to
her. He wouldn't need to do it very often, but if she would listen
when Ron (or whoever, really, just Ron is really the only one jumping
for the job) makes a suggestion like that she would truly save herself
a lot of grief. Now, the obvious exception to this being that she's
not allowed to take boy advice from Ron, since even she knows that
would be a bit biased. :)

[sinisterDei]

>> pointing out the things that are obvious to others but invisible to her

LOL, a funny thought just occurred to me as I re-read what I typed.
This line made me think of Luna and Hermione's interactions. Whereas I
think Hermione would do well to have a mini-Ron (or full-size)
whispering in her ear pointing out the obvious from time to time, I
think it would drive her batshiat crazy (and be highly entertaining)
to have a mini-Luna whispering in the other ear about things that are
obvious to Luna but invisible to everyone else. Hey, look at the
snorkack, watch out for the low-hanging nargles, etc...

[Jade]

That's always how I saw Ron in canon, as the only thing he had to
offer was himself. It's set up so that it's impossible for him to have
anything unique when he outlines his list of siblings - Fred and
George took away his last recourse, which is humor. The only reason
Ginny has her own special thing is because she's a girl and that's
weird for Weasleys. You're definitely right about Ron being
materialistic, and that's his problem. In any fic where the author
wants to give Ron security in himself, he has to realize at some point
that offering himself is much more than anything his bothers have.
Minus Book Seven and part of Book Four, no matter what Harry does Ron
is behind him with support. That's one of the reasons I really didn't
like Book Seven was Ron's character - it was so stupid the way she
crossed over her entire characterization of him. It just seemed to me
that he lost any value he ever had when he abandoned Harry and
Hermione. In this way, I think you're very right about protective Ron.

I hope this doesn't bother you too much, but I'm going to keep my
thoughts about your second paragraph to myself because it relates to
my development of their relationship in Soul Nexus. I could talk about
it, but I might end up giving away some spoilers and I really don't
want to do that on a public forum, even if you're all right with
getting spoiled a bit. Hopefully it will suffice to say that I agree
with everything you said.

It's interesting you would mention Hermione's devotion to the idea
that Snape is a good guy though, because in the end he turned out to
hate Harry every bit as much as he showed. Dumbledore was surprised by
this, but overall, I thought Snape was a masterpiece when it comes to
characterization and writing a minor character. In all honesty, I'm
not that big of a Snape fan, but I recognize he was probably the best
written part of the HP Universe.

Haha! That would be a really interesting outtake to write - not a part
of the story of course, but more of things that come to mind when
thinking/writing about the story that are too funny to pass up. Or
even the bigger picture - Hermione and Luna soul bonded. I don't want
to downplay the importance of what it means to be a Soulmate (it will
become a big theme much later in Soul Nexus), but the idea of Hermione
and Luna sharing thoughts and feeling is too funny.

Also, I'm gonna advertise again. If you haven't read it, Eternal
Sunshine of the Spotless Mind by Solstice Muse was a great fic about
Ron, which features him as a main character and everyone else is
supporting. I found on FFnet, one of my few really good finds there.

On the topic of mini-Ron, I just want to mention: I refuse to allow
myself to put it into Soul Nexus, but I'm really wanting to write a
Ron/Hermione bond fic. Harry and Ginny has been done so much that it's
hard to be original, but Ron/Hermione provides so much depth (at
least, in my mind) that it would be a blast to write.

[sinisterDei]

>> I hope this doesn't bother you too much...

Doesn't bother me at all of course. I'm just enjoying the conversation
in general. :)

>> ...Snape...was probably the best written part of the HP Universe

I wholeheartedly agree. I hated the character on a personal level; as
in, if I imagined myself as Ron or Harry...or really any of the
imaginary inhabitants of Hogwarts... he really is a bastard and I
would be unable to do anything but hate him. With that said, Snape is
by far one of the best characters in the books, in my opinion. And I
truly enjoyed JKR's toying with her fans prior to the release of DH
with all the "Snape: Good or Bad?" themed advertisements. His
complexity as a character was refreshing to me, especially in a story
setting where many of the characters fit their particular stereotypes
pretty well. Then again, I liked the humanization of Dumbledore in DH,
which I generally find myself in the minority on.

>> R/Hr Bond

I've actually read one of these - or one close enough to qualify, and
it was quite good. It is named "The Price of Love", posted on FF.net
and Checkmated. FF.net link is here - http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1914111/1/.
It's got more overt sexual descriptions than most fanfiction I've
cared to read (I generally avoid fics that read like porn) but it's
not to a terrible degree and the story itself is quite good. Also, the
copy on FF.net has some of the more raunchy scenes left out for the
faint of heart. If you haven't read it, I'd recommend it. It was
actually the first piece of R/Hr fanfiction that I'd ever read, and I
wish I could find some more that is of good quality. My introduction
to fanfiction came from a friend linking me to a story on
phoenixsong.net, which led me to SIYE. I've yet to find sites of equal
quality dedicated to the R/Hr pairing. Rather, I've been to the sites
- I know they're out there - but I have trouble finding stories that
are good. I can't stand poorly written or poorly beta'd/edited
stories, and for some reason many fanfiction sites don't have a "Sort
by # of Reviews" or "Sort by Rating" type option. I've found a few
decent R/Hr stories, but have yet to find the cornucopia of R/Hr
goodness the likes of which SIYE is for H/G stuff. And trying to find
something decent to read on FF.net or SU or any of the other fanfic
sites by browsing stories listed alphabetically by author - as if
sorting that way has any meaning to me - is too daunting to really
attempt.

I haven't read the Eternal Sunshine one yet, but the name is pretty
familiar and not just cause of the reference. I'll give it a shot -
you know, in between chapters. :)

[sinisterDei]

>> I wish I could find some more that is of good quality

I should also mention that the only semi-reliable way I've found to
find good fanfiction to read is to hope and pray that the authors
whose writing I like utilizes the "favorite stories" function of most
fanfic sites. For example, thanks to you in particular I read
Hermione's Plan, Vox Corporis, and Daddy. Maybe I'll add a fourth to
that list that I owe ya for. :)

[Jade]

Argh! Longer reply later, but I just realized a big mistake.

Its Eternal Sunshine of the Scourgified Mind, not spotless! Gah! I
confused the movie and the fic, which is a horrible mistake.

[Jade]

Okay, on the topic of good Ron/Hermione sites, there aren't that many
people writing Ron/Hermione fanfiction. I usually just keep my eye on
Checkmated and PhoenixSong, and sometimes The Quidditch Pitch will
have the odd story about them that's good. The interesting thing about
good stories is they're usually cross posted to more than one archive,
so it's harder to miss them. Sorting by reviews on Checkmated got me
the best results.

I lurk other author's favorites too - it's always a good idea. Also
just talking to other authors and readers gets the suggestions going
as well. I generally don't refer authors to my favorites list because
there's such a variety and there are some things that people don't
like, but I'm glad you found good fics there. =D

I thought Dumbledore's humanization was good, but not perfect. I've
generally tried to keep Book 7 at arm's length because most of it I
just don't think fits in the HP universe, but I didn't really have a
problem with that backstory. I thought how some of it was presented
was a little iffy, but the actual story was on the level of the rest
of the books. I also thought the interaction between him and Snape
(what little of it was in the books) was done well and really helped
with both of their characterizations. The whole bit where Dumbledore
expects Snape to care a slight bit for Harry after seven years and
Snape replies that he doesn't was great.

I'll have to check it out - I think I've seen the title somewhere, but
I don't remember reading it.

[Jade]

Hmmm....I've read Price before, but I don't think I finished it. I
can't remember why, so I suppose I'll have to read it again.

[sinisterDei]

Well, I can see that happening. Price kind of... lost some of it's
intensity a bit as the story went on. It was still the first bit of R/
Hr fanfic that I'd read, and I liked it enough to try and find
more. :) Since then, mostly I've only managed to find shorter bits -
over on SQ there is 'Not as a Last Resort' and whatever the sequel's
name is. It's just a pair of short little fics that work for me. I've
not ran into many R/Hr epics.... so...uh...write one? :P

Some days I wish I was creative enough to write for myself. I feel
like quite a bit of a leech, sitting back consuming vast quantities of
fanfiction when my only payment back to the authors is short little
bits of review or feedback. In fact, I've 'participated in the
fanfiction community' more in this thread than the rest of my
participation put together. I've thought of trying to offer web
hosting, tech services, or maybe work as a beta or something, but I
haven't gone anywhere with it. Sadly, the most I ever seem to be able
to come up with on my own are - at most - little snippets like in this
thread. So instead, I live vicariously, like the leech that I am. :)

So... need web hosting or tech services? :P

[Jade]

You know, it's really really interesting you mentioned that, because I
recently got a copy of Adobe Dreamweaver CS3 (I'm taking a couple web
design courses) and one of our assignments was to create a simple
website, so I made one myself. I'm not even going to consider
publishing it until I get done with my next course this spring, but
I'll keep that in mind.

And don't underestimate the value of a review. It's the only sort of
compensation an author gets (besides pleasure of writing), so they're
always really nice. I read probably a few million words in fics before
I got my head in gear and started publishing, so don't feel too bad.
=)

The problem with me pursuing other ideas is Soul Nexus has me locked
down for the foreseeable future, so I don't really have the time. I
piddle around with other things and write sketchy outlines, but the
only serious work I do goes into Soul Nexus.

[sinisterDei]

Of course. I was only joking about you writing one - though you seem
like you'd be interested, I know you've got Soul Nexus on the brain.
And I'm not complaining, mind you. I loved DWY and now Soul Nexus, so
I'd be sad if you got distracted. :P

Now, with that said, I wasn't joking about the web hosting and stuff.
If you want someone to host some stuff for ya let me know and I'll see
what I can do. I own a co-located server (I own the hardware, lease
the bandwidth) and a pile of bandwidth that I basically do nothing
with on any consistent basis. Also, I have very limited creative
skills, but problem solving I'm good at. PHP, databases, and moderate
CSS I can do. :)

[Jade]

How about YOU write an R/Hr fic, and I'll play the constructive
reviewer. =P

Hmmm...very interesting offer. That's basically what I'm going to be
learning next term (PHP and I think Perl), so I might be in contact
when I figure out exactly what I would want to put up content wise.

Check your email. xD

[sinisterDei]

I was wondering when that suggestion would show up :P

[Jade]

I always encourage people to write - all some people need is a bit of
a kick in the pants and they explode with amazing stuff.