Exploring HG 1.5 - transferring inventories from HG 1.0

[Vanish Seriath]

Hi everyone,

on yesterdays meeting we talked about visiting HG 1.5 regions and how
to best go about that. First off, you'll need an account on a grid
that's running an OpenSim version compatible with HG 1.5 i6 (which is
the part of the hypergrid spectrum we're talking about). You can find
a (slightly outdated) overview of which grid runs which on hyperica at
http://www.hyperica.com/ or browse the hypergates for the "Veritas"
network: http://thehypergates.com/HyperGrid/Veritas/all/first
Additionally, you can register at Neo's hbase42 at http://hbase42.hopto.org:8002/wifi,
which he provided as a base location for HG 1.5 exploration.

One problem still is, though: "how can I transfer my inventory from
one version to another". There are several ways to do this:

First, if you're hosting your own sim, simply install the latest diva
distro and move/copy your database. Alternatively, you can make an iar
of your inventory and upload it to a HG 1.5 i6 compatible version.

If you don't run your own sim, you could ask your simhost or grid
provider, if they can make an iar (inventory archive) for you, which
you can then upload (again, with the help of another grid provider) to
an HG 1.5 i6 grid.

If this is not possible, Talvin came up with a splendid idea which
will still (probably) transfer your inventory between versions. What
you will have to do is to rezz the items you want to transfer on a HG
1.0 region, which will then be loaded into an HG 1.5 i6 sim, where you
can pick them up again. (Items which can't be rezzed, like clothes,
animations, etc. need to be boxed first.)

For this reason I made a region on the TGIB standalone, which can be
accessed through hypergrid 1.0 at tgib.co.uk:9069:hgac Just hypergrid
there and rezz your stuff in a place you can remember easily. (I set
up a tower for an easy to remember storage - just pick a floor and
corner. Of course you can also rezz anywhere else in the region.)
Don't forget to set it to "allow everyone to copy", as you want your
alt on another version to be able to pick it up again. The hgac region
on TGIB is around coordinates 4000,4000, so it's one jump away from
JokaydiaGrid and Reaction Grid. I will regularly load an identical
copy of the hgac region to the 1.5 i6 sim of TGIB, where you can pick
up your stuff again. (The hypergrid adress for the 1.5 i6 is
tgib.co.uk:9070:hgac )

Please be aware that this is not the best solution either - when you
set your stuff "free to copy", then it means exactly that: Anyone can
copy it. Don't do it, if you don't like the possibility that someone
else might get a copy of it. Also, you should be aware that everything
you rez on someone elses region (mine, in this case) allows the owner
of that region (me) to get full perm copies of all the objects. (And
I'll have to make a backup of the region, which means I *will* have a
copy of said objects.)

I'd like to add that you're also welcome to register an account on
TGIB at http://tgib.co.uk:9070/wifi and if you have an iar of your
inventory I can upload it to your account there.

Here's to a wider hypergrid
V

[Neo Cortex]

Hello fellow hypernauts!

we had plans to visit the people on Craftworld and eventually drop
them some good stuff to help recover their inventory lost.
....but...
there are some problems:
first of all, craftworld has updated to a HG1.5i7 release, that means
we cant reach them from my 0.7.0.2 based HG1.5i6 grid :(

I cross checked that yesterday, upgraded my sim connected to the
Osgrid and went for a quick look to Aqua and some other regions on
Craftworld.

So we have to find another place to visit if we want to start from the
Hyperbase42. What i know for sure is that we can take a look at my
other sims,
i.e. my beach island or my exhib.. errm workbench, errm, well you'll see ;-)

Or we might set up a taxi to and from the TGIB Inn.

Second problem i see with such ideas as "lets drop some nice freebies"
is twofold:
- first we have to be 100% sure we only drop things we have complete
copyright over (which can be tricky if they are based on some "found"
freebies)
- second we should always contact the owner of the place we want to
give our presents to, not all might love a pile of things in their
garden..

If you like we could set up a freebie center on the Hyperbase too, i
would provide some rackspace and enable building on that area.
(At the moment building is only allowed in the sandbox area)

Finally some thoughts about inventory migration. It is a real p.i.t.a
to combine things you gather on several accounts all over the
metaverse.
Different opensim versions, different inventory & asset servers...

Here are my experiences: i used second inventory for quite a while to
save my SL stuff to my harddrive. Problems here: SI isnt always
reliable,
tends to save textures or sometimes even parts of my builds only
partial... which you only discover later on restore :( which, btw. is
much more complicated than the backup: you have to restore every
single item, while you can backup entire folders). Nice thing about it
that it can backup even complicated structures including scripts and
such. But since it is SL TOS compliant you can no longer export
anything that you havent created yourself (not even a single freebie
texture allowed).
Sounds harsh, but lets face it, all those "freebies" were created
inside SL to be used inside LL's grid and we dont have any rights to
take them.
SI works similar on opensim based worlds, so it can be used to migrate
things between grids and versions.

Then there are XML exports using your viewer (Imprudence, Astra,
Phoenix, Meerkat...). Those are great to store your own creations and
move them everywhere.... as long as you dont have nested structures or
scripts / animations in it. Those have to be saved separately (in the
case of animations there is afaik no way to save them, so you couls
only use some you created yourself of have the bvh source files to
them).

Now on to the opensim console mechanisms: save iar and save oar.
save iar gives you a great way to store your inventory in part or even
as whole and restore that onto other grids.... but: to save it you
either need console access to the region or you have to give your
password to the console operator :((
save oar lets you save the entire region and recover it later so you
might e.g. put all your things in boxes and store it that way... but:
you wont e.g. have the same textures UUID's anymore (so you for
example cant see the original names of your textures)

For us hardcore admins there is of course a way using the database
files, but thats one hell to go thru. You have to dive really deep
into the internal structures (and those changed a lot between the
opensim versions).

Finally you can use opensim's upgrade mechanism to bring stuff from
your older installation to a newer one. Vanish's offer to use a pair
of regions that are migrated regularly is a great tool for hypernauts
without own regions.

Yet with all those tools you always have to combine your things from
different versions / grids into one account.

What i would suggest for hypernauts is to use their own home base
(e.g. a Diva distro or Sim-on-a-stick at home) to start all their HG
travels from. This way all things get collected into one central
storage (at your home) and you have a chance to use all console tools
to move and backup your stuff. Once again there is one "but": you
still have to have one base for each HG version and find ways to
combine your stuff ito one :(

I think running a standard Diva distro (0.7.0.2), moving in things
from older or newer grids via the mechanisms mentioned above and wait
for the next update might cause the least pain in the long run.

Sounds complicated? Ok, some bits might be, but we have a lot of
expertise to help you get started.

...to the future!

Neo

[John "Pathfinder" Lester]

V and Neo, thanks for all this information.  It's unfortunate that the hypergrid is still so fragmented right now, but I'm sure our group will figure out t

Since trying to jump to CraftWorld from either hbase42 or TGIB is not currently feasible, why don't we do something different for this coming Sunday's meeting.  We can plan to have a special HGAC meeting on hbase42 to showcase all the hard work Neo has been doing.  And from hbase42 we can make a jump to TGIB to see what V has been up too.  

I'll start another thread about this special meeting and will explain how folks who don't currently have HG1.5 accounts will need to set up accounts on hbase42.  I'll also write a blog post about it to spread the word further.

Sound good?

[Vanish Seriath]

I second that. I want to see Neo's stuff.

2011/3/8 John "Pathfinder" Lester <john.e...@gmail.com>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Hypergrid Adventurers Club" group.
To post to this group, send email to the-hypergrid-a...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to the-hypergrid-adventu...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/the-hypergrid-adventurers-club?hl=en.

--

The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,

This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,

That Trees Got Icy Branches and,

The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

[John Waugh]

FYI:
Hey guys you can get to anywhere in Craft-World from Osgrid... I've
travelled there from the Hypergate in Lani [Sci-Fi Space/Desert /Lani
Region, Lani (182, 180, 45)]in Osgrid a number of times... the most
recent visit was today . Appears stable with the tp direct and without
problems. There are a large number of other grids now on HG1.5i7 as well
as the great grids still on HG1.5i6
cheers Johnnie Waugh

> Different opensim versions, different inventory& asset servers...

[Graham Mills]

Astra is more useful than the other two as it lets you move multiple
linksets at the same time and, moreover, moves some prim inventory as
well (scripts, notecards, textures but not nested objects). Dangerous,
of course, to tie yourself to a single viewer but I've found it handy
in the short-term.

Thanks for the info on SI -- the website seems to have stagnated.

Blog on same topic: http://www.icarusstudios.co.uk/2011/03/07/os-sl-import-export-backup-notes/

Best wishes

Graham

On Mar 8, 7:54 am, Neo Cortex <iamneocor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello fellow hypernauts!

[Jeff Kelley]

At 3:50 PM -0800 3/7/11, Vanish Seriath wrote:

>For this reason I made a region on the TGIB standalone, which can be
>accessed through hypergrid 1.0 at tgib.co.uk:9069:hgac Just hypergrid
>there and rezz your stuff in a place you can remember easily.

Thanks a lot, Vanish, for setting up this very special gateway.

I have dropped a dozen boxes on the top floor. This is part of my process
of leaving the HG1.0 realm. 0.6.9 is way too bugged for a scripter. I have
a 0.7.0.2 at home but since they were nobody to share, i joined a 0.6.9
public grid monthes ago, NewWorld Grid precisely.

Jeff....@grid.newworldgrid.com has now some interesting stuff in his
inventory but again, as that was the case for Jeff.Kelley@SecondLife, this
content is jailed due to hypergrid incompatibility.

This is really too much a pain -and a danger- so i had to put a stopmark to
the 0.6.9 adventure and painfully synchronize my NewWorld inventory with my
inventory at home. Inventory at home will migrate seamlessly to 0.7.1 when
it will be released.

The boxes on HGAC47 contains all my textures. This is important because
when you export an object with Imprudence, the XML file contains the UUIDs
of the textures. If you want the object to be properly textured, UUIDs have
to be the same.

If you re-upload the textures, it gets a new UUID and when you rez such a
re-textured object in the original grid, the textures gets duplicated. If
we do not care, we may pollute the databases with many duplicates. This is
another consequence of breaking the HG protocol.

--
Jeff

[Vanish Seriath]

Hi Jeff,

I copied them over, you can find the boxes at tgib.co.uk:9070:hgac

Greetings

V

2011/3/16 Jeff Kelley <hgac...@pescadoo.net>

At 3:50 PM -0800 3/7/11, Vanish Seriath wrote:

>For this reason I made a region on the TGIB standalone, which can be
>accessed through hypergrid 1.0 at tgib.co.uk:9069:hgac Just hypergrid
>there and rezz your stuff in a place you can remember easily.

Thanks a lot, Vanish, for setting up this very special gateway.

I have dropped a dozen boxes on the top floor.  This is part of my process
of leaving the HG1.0 realm. 0.6.9 is way too bugged for a scripter. I have
a 0.7.0.2 at home but since they were nobody to share, i joined a 0.6.9
public grid monthes ago, NewWorld Grid precisely.

Jeff....@grid.newworldgrid.com has now some interesting stuff in his
inventory but again, as that was the case for Jeff.Kelley@SecondLife, this
content is jailed due to hypergrid incompatibility.

This is really too much a pain -and a danger- so i had to put a stopmark to
the 0.6.9 adventure and painfully synchronize my NewWorld inventory with my
inventory at home. Inventory at home will migrate seamlessly to 0.7.1 when
it will be released.

The boxes on HGAC47 contains all my textures. This is important because
when you export an object with Imprudence, the XML file contains the UUIDs
of the textures. If you want the object to be properly textured, UUIDs have
to be the same.

If you re-upload the textures, it gets a new UUID and when you rez such a
re-textured object in the original grid, the textures gets duplicated. If
we do not care, we may pollute the databases with many duplicates. This is
another consequence of breaking the HG protocol.

--
Jeff

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Hypergrid Adventurers Club" group.
To post to this group, send email to the-hypergrid-a...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to the-hypergrid-adventu...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/the-hypergrid-adventurers-club?hl=en.

[Jeff Kelley]

At 5:14 PM +0100 3/16/11, Vanish Seriath wrote:

> I copied them over, you can find the boxes at tgib.co.uk:9070:hgac

Thanks again, Vanish.

So, i hypergrided to TGIB::HGAC and took copy of the mirror image of my 12
texture boxes, for a total of 790 textures. All went smooth and fast!

Just a detail: boxes and content have you (Vanish) as the creator. OAR
slams the master avatar UUID into every asset.

This is another nasty consequence of breaking the hypergrid capability :
when using OAR, we end with objects looking like copybots. I've already
found copies of my objects with another creator's name. This may induce
suspicion.

Be careful with OAR.

Reading:
http://justincc.org/blog/2009/09/25/preserving-content-creator-credit-in-opensim-iar-transfers/

--
Jeff

[Vanish Seriath]

Yes, that's what I meant when I wrote "Please be aware that this is not the best solution either" in https://groups.google.com/group/the-hypergrid-adventurers-club/browse_thread/thread/cff574245141ffcf/612c89c0fafe68ac

Currently, the only way to transfer inventory reliably with all information intact is through an IAR, but these require console access.

Personally, I don't care much about the creator info that's displayed inworld, but that might just be me, as I'm using hypergrid exclusively, so all items in my inventory either display me as creator (because I uploaded them) or "Unknown User" because I got them through Hypergrid.

I don't think the inworld system of permissions, creator and owner is a useful one, but that's a different topic altogether.

2011/3/22 Jeff Kelley <hgac...@pescadoo.net>

At 5:14 PM +0100 3/16/11, Vanish Seriath wrote:

> I copied them over, you can find the boxes at tgib.co.uk:9070:hgac

Thanks again, Vanish.

So, i hypergrided to TGIB::HGAC and took copy of the mirror image of my 12
texture boxes, for a total of 790 textures. All went smooth and fast!

Just a detail: boxes and content have you (Vanish) as the creator. OAR
slams the master avatar UUID into every asset.

This is another nasty consequence of breaking the hypergrid capability :
when using OAR, we end with objects looking like copybots.  I've already
found copies of my objects with another creator's name. This may induce
suspicion.

Be careful with OAR.

Reading:
http://justincc.org/blog/2009/09/25/preserving-content-creator-credit-in-opensim-iar-transfers/

--
Jeff

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Hypergrid Adventurers Club" group.
To post to this group, send email to the-hypergrid-a...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to the-hypergrid-adventu...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/the-hypergrid-adventurers-club?hl=en.

[Joel Foner]

This creates some barriers for folks who with to be known, or to get credit - whether monetary or just recognition - for the work they do, as objects ported to another location will then lose any indication of who actually created them. For some folks this is a big deal, and not for others, however I think as a matter of course a system that purports to indicate creator should continue to do that after transfers. Anything else seems like buggy behavior or problematic design to me. 

Just my 2c :)

Joel

[IcaruS Studios]

For OpenSim VWs to ever become a credible mainstream environment that can grow, there needs to be good IP rights protections in place and DEFINITELY a system that shows the original creator's name, especially for grid owners.

=IcaruS=

[Vanish Seriath]

I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure the WWW is a credible mainstream environment by now, and there's no (technical) IP rights protection in place, nor is there anything that shows the original creator's name on most things (like pictures, video, etc.)

Maybe something like ID3 tags from music files would be nice to have, but these are both optional and editable.

I don't think that a technical IP protection is a guarantee for growth, nor that the lack thereof prevents growth. At best, it lets you sleep at night; at worst, it's snake oil.

2011/3/23 IcaruS Studios <icarus....@gmail.com>

--

The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,

This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,

That Trees Got Icy Branches and,

The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

http://tgib.co.uk/

[IcaruS Studios]

hmm, WWW compared to VW,
Thats like comparing the car to a ford escort or any other brand
pretty sure cars sell ok, not sure iv seen any unbranded cars around
I think i will leave it to anyone else to pick that explination up

thou metadata tags you mean would be useful
(goes to look at the little C symbol on web pages)

[Maria Trombly]

The OpenSim core developers -- including Justin Clark-Casey and Crista
Lopes -- are busy working on fixing the creator name problem.

The idea is that there are no unique avatar names on the hypergrid --
there could be a John Smith on every grid, and it could be a different
guy everywhere.

BUT hypergrid names are unique -- there is only one
john....@reactiongrid.com, only one jane...@osgrid.org.

So the idea is to replace the avatar names with the longer hypergrid
names. They're calling it OpenSim profiles, and it will take a little
time to implement.

Meanwhile, I recommend that people add creator names to the
description line, or add creator logos to the textures of the objects
they make, and add notecards into their objects giving directors for
how to get to their website, marketplace listings, or in-world stores.
That way, at least some of this information gets preserved.

-- Maria Korolov

Editor, Hypergrid Business