betta bloated belly - dropsy?

[Eduardo Starling]

Hello folks,

One of my male bettas presented the well known bloated belly 2 weeks
ago. I suspected that it could be dropsy, but the fish is still eating
normally and in a good mood. I put it on a small tank with salt (2
teaspoons per litre) and left it there for some minutes, and then
returned the fish to its tank, and nothing happened. The fish is still
eating well (tetra color bits, and bloodworms from time to time). Do
you have any ideas of what's going on ? Later I'll post a picture here

Rgds,
Eduardo

[Norbert]

Hi,

if bloodworms are red mosquito larves:

bettas often become thick, if they have eaten bloodworms.

So if your betta is not old or shows other signs of illness, it is
probably no problem. Don't feed bloodworms for some days and wait a
few days, if he becomes thin again.

Norbertif

[Eduardo Starling]

Hi,

Unfortunately it's not this kind of 'thickness'. The belly seems to be
full of water, leading me to think it's dropsy, altough the fish act
healthly. Later when I post the picture you'll understand. Thanks
anyway

Eduardo

[Nikki B]

I keep bettas and have seen some in the past have their belly very big
from constipation which can also kill them if not taken care of, but i
also had a betta with dropsy, if i remember right it is fluid and is
from kidney failure, which is a symotom of disease.
If it looks like the scales are sticking out then that is more then
likely what it is, if they are not and his belly is just fat then it
could be constipation in which case dont feed him for a day or two
then give him something like pea's.
Hope he is ok, i have been told people have treated betta's with
dropsy, which is a symptom and i am not sure what disease causes it..
however i have never myself seen one get better once his scales were
sticking up like they do.
Nikki

> > Norbertif- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Tynk]

On May 21, 3:11 pm, Nikki B <nikkiboo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I keep bettas and have seen some in the past have their belly very big
> from constipation which can also kill them if not taken care of, but i
> also had a betta with dropsy, if i remember right it is fluid and is
> from kidney failure, which is a symotom of disease.
> If it looks like the scales are sticking out then that is more then
> likely what it is, if they are not and his belly is just fat then it
> could be constipation in which case dont feed him for a day or two
> then give him something like pea's.
> Hope he is ok, i have been told people have treated betta's with
> dropsy, which is a symptom and i am not sure what disease causes it..
> however i have never myself seen one get better once his scales were
> sticking up like they do.
> Nikki

A fish can show Dropsy symptoms without having that "pine cone" look
to their scales.
I wasn't sure if you knew that.
However, it's not the same as an over fed, round belly.
A betta can look like it swallowed a marble from eating way too much.
They're pigs.
Some will eat until they can't even swim properly. When I have one of
those piggies, they can't go into the main 75g. It's the only way to
control their food intake.
Without knowing more info, or even seeing the fish, it's hard to say
which of the 3 things this could be.
Over fed, stuffed, and kept on being over fed, which in turn the belly
stays round.
Showing dropsy symptoms (swollen belly or body or both from excess
fluid built up) for various reasons...not all are from diseases.
Constipated. Bettas have a tendency to get constipated when fed too
much dry food. They shouldn't be on an all dry diet- ever.
Hopefully Eduardo will have a picture up and we can see the fish.

[Gayle]

What do you feed bettas besides dry food?   -------Original Message-------

-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.0/1460 - Release Date: 5/22/2008 7:06 AM   .

[Tynk]

On May 22, 11:06 am, "Gayle" <tak...@t6b.com> wrote:
> What do you feed bettas besides dry food?
>

I feed:
Once daily a dry staple.
Once daily, frozen or live food which is either:
Brine Shrimp
Bloodworms
Mysis shrimp
Mosquitos (caught in the house)
Fruitflies, gnats, etc. (if they get in the house)
Fry on occasion (either culls or live bearer population control)
Some will kill (usually gut) live Ghost shrimp that are much too large
for them to eat. They then snack at their leisure (until it's removed
before fouling the water).
So they can either become food or buddies....you never know. I had a
male betta who decided one day shrimps are yummy and not for
friends. ; )
Not all bettas reccognize any of those foods as food. Some need a few
feedings to realize it's food.
Some bettas may prefer one food to another.
A rounded, well balanced diet is best for all fish, but remember that
bettas are carnivores. They need a meaty diet.
A fun project for kids and gorwn ups too, is to grow skeeter
wrigglers for our bettas! (Mosquito larva, aka bloodworms).
You can take a non metal, shallow container with some water and a leaf
or two.
Leave it outside until you see skeeter wrigglers. A tap of the
container will get them wriggling good, making it easier to see them.
Pull out the leaf when you see them, scoop out the larva, rinse with
freshwater, and feed.
Just make sure you either feed them all, or put netting over the
container so that if they grow into biting adults, they can't get out.
We don't want to add to the skeeter problem.
Also, if you're making fresh fish or shrimp in your home, after
cleaning, but before any seasoning, etc., you can cut a tiny bit off
and feed it to your fish.
Some of my bettas will even eat the pre-cooked frozen shrimp. I'll
thaw it out and will always toss a few tiny chunks into the 75g.
That tank has a mix of angels, several female bettas, and one male.
The peacock eel just sniffs it. I wonder if it'll try it if I hold it.
I haven't made shrimp since I started hand feeding the eel.
Hmmmmm....maybe it's time for SHRIMP FEST!!!!
Everybody loves when I make shrimp fest here, even the fish! lol.

[Nikki B]

I dont think he posted a pic yet? If so i missed it been kind of
busy. When i first read it i thought he was saying it was just fat
(being a pig, which betta's are good for), but when he responded it
was more then that i figured maybe it was dropsy. I dont know about
you but i have never seen one get better from that, not that it does
not happen i just have not seen it.
My neighbor who i had given one of my betta babies to told me one day
her betta was sick and going to die, she looked it up on the net and
it looked like dropsy...so i went over to check it out and ask what
are you feeding him..after a bit we found out everyone in the house
was feeding him...because he acted like he was hungry.... she said
there is never food on the bottom i said i guess so its in his
belly...ugh i told her they always do that even when they have just
ate. He was pretty stuffed but after a food brake and something to
help him pass some of it along and a change of diet he is doing great
and going on 2 years old now.

betta's have their own menu ideas, i have one who will eat anything
and one who is picky and will only eat on one side of the tank, if you
put it on the other side he will wait till it comes to him or wont eat
it...lol
Nikki
Just a thought on the upside.....he said its been two weeks since its
been bloated and his betta is still eating and acting fine...i am
guessing that dropsy would have either killed it already or it would
at the very least not be acting fine what do you think?

[Gayle]

Thanks.

-------Original Message-------   From: Tynk Date: 5/22/2008 11:54:03 AM To: The Freshwater Aquarium Subject: [TFA] Re: betta bloated belly - dropsy?

[Eduardo Starling]

Here's the picture (attached)

After all I read here, I believe he have dropsy. The scales are not
sticking out, but the belly seems full of water. I almost can see
through the skin with a strong light.

Eduardo

[Eduardo Starling]

From time to time, I feed them with bloodworms and brine shrimp. My
other bettas are perfectly healthy, and all of them eat the same, so I
don't think it's a matter of constipation

Eduardo

[Eduardo Starling]

Nikki,

That's the strange part of the story: I lost bettas with dropsy on the
past, and every single one of them stopped eating and died slowly. But
this one is not typical, as he's living very well considering he's
ill. Yesterday I noticed that he was 'evacuating', so it drops the
'constipation' theory.

Last days I did another 'medicine bath' (40 minutes in a small tank
with coarse salt), as I heard about some person that managed to cure
fish with dropsy doing this. Now I think this person was merely lucky

Eduardo

[Frank Bayne]

Eduardo Starling <edu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Last days I did another 'medicine bath' (40 minutes in a small tank
with coarse salt), as I heard about some person that managed to cure
fish with dropsy doing this. Now I think this person was merely lucky

Eduardo

       Dropsy (swelling, lifting scales, bulging eyes) is a symptom the fish get that could be due to any one of multiple causes. ie; internal bacterial infection, internal parasites and poor water quality, which are treatable and considered to not be contagious. There is however a contagious form that is caused by a virus called 'rhabdovirus carpio' and being a virus, is untreatable. Another form of dropsy, acute dropsy, is caused by an internal bacteria infection (septicemia) which causes internal bleeding, which is also fatal unless treated immediately. None of the above forms of dropsy can be cured using salt as salt retains water within the fish which is one of the reasons the fish blows up. You may be thinking of a treatment using Epsom Salts (two teaspoons per 10 gals.) while raising the temp to 86º . Treatment can take up to 30 days, of which for the first week, you will see no improvement. An antibiotic medicated food should be fed darning treatment. ........ Frank

[Eduardo Starling]

Frank,

Thanks for the info! I'll look for Epsom Salt here (I dunno where I
can find it yet, first I have to know how it is called in portuguese),
and SERA baktopur direct (a friend on a local forum indicated this)

Eduardo

[Tynk]

On May 22, 10:36 pm, "Eduardo Starling" <edu7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's the picture (attached)

>
>

> tn_betta 001.jpg
> 61KViewDownload


Oh man, Eduardo.
Sorry but that he does have Dropsy symptoms. It's very obvious now.
I have a female betta who lived like that for weeks.
She slowly swelled to where it became difficult for her to get
around.
That's when I euthanized her. She was like that for a couple of weeks.
There was no real reason I could figure out for her condition.
No other fish in my house had any problems, and so I can't say why it
happened to her.
At this level of fluid retention, I wouldn't think you could save
him.
= (

[Nikki B]

I am really sorry, i was suprised when i saw the pic, mine never got
quite that big. That has to be hard to swim like that.
Nikki

[NetMax]

sais de epsom
Magnesium sulfate MgSO4 + ·7H2O
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

NetMax

> > treatment. ........ Frank- Hide quoted text -

[Eduardo Starling]

Tynk,

I thought of euthanazia, but apart from its bizarre belly that makes
it swim strangely, the fish is acting really normal (eating, swimming,
opening its fins to 'confrontate' another male I have), so I hoped
there's a chance of cure. I'll try that bath with epsom salt as a last
resource ASAP.

Eduardo

[Eduardo Starling]

I say the same: it's the worst case I got after several years, but at
the same time it's the best case, as the fish is entering its 3rd week
after I noticed the problem and it's not getting worse. My nieces even
asked me "Is it pregnant? I never saw baby bettas!" :)

Eduardo

[Eduardo Starling]

Thank you, NetMax !
I asked my friend Google using your tips, and discovered that here
they call it 'sal amargo' ('bitter salt', in a rough translation)

Eduardo

[Mister Gardener]

Eduardo Starling wrote:

Thank you, NetMax !
I asked my friend Google using your tips, and discovered that here
they call it 'sal amargo' ('bitter salt', in a rough translation)

FYI:
Question:
Why is Epsom Salt called Epsom Salt?
Answer:
One of the earliest discoveries of magnesium sulfate, the scientific name of Epsom Salt, occurred back in Shakespeare's day in Epsom, England, which explains the first half of the name. The term "salt" probably refers to the specific chemical structure of the compound, although many people mistakenly assume it refers to the crystalline structure of Epsom Salt, which has an appearance similar to that of table salt. (Table salt, of course, consists of sodium chloride, so it's an entirely different substance than magnesium sulfate.)

(which explains why the E in Epsom is always capitalized. - MG)

[Frank Bayne]

Eduardo Starling <edu...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I'll try that bath with epsom salt as a last
resource ASAP.      Eduardo

     

        Treatment with Epsom Salt isn't a 'bath', the Epsom Salt is added to the tanks water.  

...............Frank

[Tynk]

On May 23, 4:51 pm, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Frank,
Have you ever treated a fish swollen that badly in the belly area and
it make it?
Maybe the odds depend on what part of the fish's body is retaining
fluid, as well as treating as soon as possible. So many variables.
I currently have a female betta who survived some body swelling.
This one didn't swell badly before being treated with Fungus
Eliminator (all I had stocked), and she's still fine. It's been months
since this happened.
She didn't swell in one place, like Eduardo's fish. Her entire body
became thicker, but more so along her back.
This was all under the scales, and also no scales were lifted out.
The female I had that was exactly like Eduardo's fish, lived like that
for weeks. She ate and swam like normal all while swelling up like a
water balloon.
When she got so swollen that she couldn't swim properly, I put her
down. I feel that when it becomes a struggle to live, that's when it's
time.
That's just me though. If I thought a fish could come back from that
type of swelling, I probably would have treated first.
A lady I knew on AOL's Betta message board treated a betta for drospy
symtpoms (I forget with what now), but remember it kept coming back.
She had to keep dosing the fish and it was a constant war.

[Frank Bayne]

Tynk <TY...@aol.com> wrote:
Frank,
Have you ever treated a fish swollen that badly in the belly area and
it make it?

 

 

         Sometimes when it's just the belly area that is swollen, it could be bloated from a food obstruction (constipation), or an internal bacteria infection, or internal parasites (red worms - camallanus), but people call/think it to be dropsy because of the type fish that it is, so don't treat, so the fish die.  Malawi Bloat (internal hexamita) and has much of the same symptoms as dropsy, but because it happening to a cichlid, people don't call it dropsy, so they treat it.  So yes, it is sometimes treatable.

 

 

Maybe the odds depend on what part of the fish's body is retaining
fluid, as well as treating as soon as possible. So many variables.

 

 

        Yes,  dropsy caused by septicemia and/or by the rhabdovirus carpio virus are rarely curable.

 

I currently have a female betta who survived some body swelling.
This one didn't swell badly before being treated with Fungus
Eliminator (all I had stocked), and she's still fine. It's been months

since this happened.She didn't swell in one place, like Eduardo's fish.

Her entire body became thicker, but more so along her back.
This was all under the scales, and also no scales were lifted out.

 

          Fungus Elimminator contains an anti-parasite medication. It's likely your betta had internal parasites, or constipation.......... Frank 

 

 

[Tynk]

On May 24, 7:29 pm, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> Fungus Elimminator contains an anti-parasite medication. It's likely your betta had internal parasites, or constipation.......... Frank

What would that be? I always think of Fungus Eliminator is mainly
antibiotics and salt.

[Donna Camp]

I'm afraid I have a cute fella that's getting a swollen belly, too. No change after fasting him for 3 days. I'm going to try Epsom salts. My question is how often do I change the water. I usually do 2 full changes each week.

 

Thanks

Donna

[Frank Bayne]

Donna Camp <mdog...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm afraid I have a cute fella that's getting a swollen belly, too. No change after fasting him for 3 days. I'm going to try Epsom salts. My question is how often do I change the water. I usually do 2 full changes each week.       Donna

         Go ahead and do your water changes. If your doing 20% water changes, you will also be removing 20% of the Epsom Salts that would have to be replaced after each water change. You will also need to raise the temp to 86º+ and feed an antibiotic medicated food for 10 days. The treatment is a 30 day treatment, so you might want to move the sick fish, besides, it might be the contagious form of dropsy, rhabdovirus carpio virus...........Frank

[Frank Bayne]

Tynk <TY...@aol.com> wrote:

On May 24, 7:29 pm, Frank Bayne wrote:
> Fungus Elimminator contains an anti-parasite medication. It's likely your betta had internal >parasites, or constipation.......... Frank

What would that be? I always think of Fungus Eliminator is mainly
antibiotics and salt.

       My Fungus Eliminator no longer has it's box that has the active ingredients on the back. I'm sure someone out there has a box sitting around and can tell us. If not, I e-mailed www.junglelabs.com and asked them. They should get back to me within 24 hours, but then, this weekend is a holiday weekend (here in the US), so they may take an extra day to reply...

The active ingredients in my box of Fungus Clear is; nitrofurazone - which is  an antibacterial, furazolidone - which is an antibiotic, and potassium dichromate - which is an oxidizer. I beleave the difference between the two, Fungus Eliminator and Fungus Clear, is the antiparasite Formalin, but not sure as it may be copper.............. frank

[Nikki B]

I have a bottle of applus anti-fungus (and just had to use it on one
of my cichlids) it says its for fungus, cotton mouth (not the kind you
got in the 60's) and something else and the main thing in it is MG
(spelling)
two things are in it i will get the bottle and post if you want to
know them.
Nikki

On May 25, 2:32 pm, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Tynk <TY...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>   On May 24, 7:29 pm, Frank Bayne wrote:
>
> > Fungus Elimminator contains an anti-parasite medication. It's likely your betta had internal >parasites, or constipation.......... Frank
>
> What would that be? I always think of Fungus Eliminator is mainly
> antibiotics and salt.
>

>          My Fungus Eliminator no longer has it's box that has the active ingredients on the back. I'm sure someone out there has a box sitting around and can tell us. If not, I e-mailedwww.junglelabs.comand asked them. They should get back to me within 24 hours, but then, this weekend is a holiday weekend (here in the US), so they may take an extra day to reply...

[Mister Gardener]

Nikki B wrote:

I have a bottle of applus anti-fungus (and just had to use it on one
of my cichlids) it says its for fungus, cotton mouth (not the kind you
got in the 60's) and something else and the main thing in it is MG
  

Sigh. If I was available in a bottle, Nikki, would you buy one?

MG

[Donna Camp]

Thanks for the advice. My little fella is in a 2 1/2 gal tank all by himself. The only things that touch his water and other tanks are a small syphon and a bucket. From now on I'll do his tank last and rinse the syphon and bucket in hot water after I use them on his tank.

 

Donna

[Frank Bayne]

Nikki B <nikki...@comcast.net> wrote:

I have a bottle of applus anti-fungus (and just had to use it on one
of my cichlids) it says its for fungus, cotton mouth (not the kind you
got in the 60's) and something else and the main thing in it is MG
(spelling)
two things are in it i will get the bottle and post if you want to
know them.        Nikki

 

           Applus antifungus contains malachite green and acriflavine, good to use with scaleless fish................ Frank

[Nikki B]

thanks i was hoping you guys would know what i was saying (MG) i could
not think of the spelling of malachite. I always use it because i had
a fish once who got a bite taken out of him of course a cichlid
fight...by the next day he had some fungus on him and i used the
applus and it cleared it up pretty quick, well there is salt in the
cichlid tank so that may have helped also. I have also used it on
betta's before and it worked fine.
nikki
so on another note i killed all my plants except the water sprite
stuff....i can only keep plants alive out of water...ugh i dont know
if i should give up on aquarium plants or just try to figure out what
the heck i am doing wrong. i think my power head is putting to much
air by them its not hitting them so i dont know. i wish i could bring
one of you guys who have the planted tanks home with me for a
week.........ugh
Nikki

On May 25, 8:18 pm, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[Nikki B]

yes even if it was not on sale...Nikki

I could not figure out the spelling for the MG green stuff with out
getting up to look at the bottle an i was being lazy...in my defence i
am still sick....lol

On May 25, 3:03 pm, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote: