KH (alkalinity) test for goldfish aquarium
Mike.
I am a new goldfish aquarium keeper, so this is I am sure a newb
question. I scanned a search of KH in the archives of this group and
read the FAQ's but still had some questions. I have a 10 gallon tank
with three small fish, one an orange fantail, one a shubikin (sp?) and
one a black moor. There are no live plants in the tank, and the tank
came with a power filtration unit using a carbon filter, which I have
not changed since setting the tank up. The tank was set up almost
three weeks ago, and I have done one partial water change (appx 15%)
in that time (plan to do 10-15% water change with gravel vaccuming
weekly from now on). The initial water I used to set up the tank, as
well as the water added in the partial water change is from the tap
(allowed to age to eliminate chlorine), and my tap water source is a
suburban municiple provider. I did a dip test with a Jungle brand "5
tests in one strip Quick Dip" test strip and got a KH level of 0 ppm.
First, I am not sure how to convert ppm to dH, but I would guess 0ppm
would = 0dH. According to the guide on the test strip bottle, the
ideal level for KH would be 120 to 180 ppm. Should I be concerned with
this level? I know that the KH is the buffering capacity, but am not
sure how necessary it is to keep the KH in the desired range. Would
this level need to be adjusted, or would trying to adjust it cause
more harm to the fish than good? If so, what is the best inexpensive
way to adjust the KH of my aquarium? Can I even trust this test?
Thanks in advance for any responses. Just for reference if anyone
needs the information, the Nitrate was ~0, nitrite was ~0, GH was 75
and pH was appx 6.8 to 7.2 (hard to differentiate between the shades
of orange on this test kit).
Mike Owens.
William F Pearson III
to be mute because I just killed half of my fish. Here is a link to
several caculators including a DKH to PPM, and PPM to DKH calculator.
http://www.oceanlink.com.au/calculators.asp
--
William F Pearson III
Altum
Dip strips aren't terribly accurate, but they should distinguish zero
from "some" or "a lot". Some water companies remove the KH from water
and make it very alkaline with sodium hydroxide so a zero reading is
possible
KH 0 means your pH will tend to slide. Goldfish like hard, alkaline
water so you want to adjust KH to about 100 ppm so that the pH holds.
The best thing to do is put a handful of crushed coral or aragonite in
the filter. You can mix it in with the gravel too, but it doesn't
work quite as fast as if it's in the water flow. The crushed coral
will dissolve gradually, not stress your fish at all, and and increase
both the GH and KH.
Until you get the crushed coral, you can also raise KH quickly and
cheaply by using baking soda. (Yes, the plain old Arm & Hammer you
probably have sitting in the cupboard.) 1 tsp in 10 gallons of water
adds about 100 ppm. Add 1/2 tsp one day and check with your test
strip. Hopefully it will read something resembling 50 ppm and the pH
will be a bit higher. The next day add another 1/2 tsp and test
again. The disadvantage to baking soda is that you have to add it at
every water change, and it doesn't add GH. Crushed coral lasts for
longer so you don't have to fiddle with it much.
BTW, you're going to have to be VERY careful to keep testing your
water for ammonia. Unless your goldfish are very, very small, it's
likely to build up fast. Check out our FAQ on cycling tanks.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
In the long term, your three goldfish will require a 55 gallon
aquarium. Goldfish get quite large and shubunkins like a decent
amount of swimming space. You really can't even keep one full grown
goldfish in a 10 gallon tank.
--Altum
Mister Gardener
> to be mute because I just killed half of my fish.
That's an awful feeling, you're not the first of us that's been there, done
that. How's your tank this morning?
MG
Altum
On Jun 29, 2:55 am, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
At least you know why your fish died. My female ram has a sore on her
nose and I haven't a clue why or how to fix her (trying water changes
and Melafix). Please don't feel like you can't help out a beginner.
--Altum
Mister Gardener
> At least you know why your fish died. My female ram has a sore on her
> nose and I haven't a clue why or how to fix her (trying water changes
> and Melafix). Please don't feel like you can't help out a beginner.
>
> --Altum
We'll be glad to help you. You're not giving us much to go on. By "sore", what do you mean? Can you describe the sore? Is it like a scratch? A pimple? An abrasion? Do you test your water? What is the pH, Ammonia, NitrItes, NitrAtes, KH, GH? How often do you do water changes and how much do you change at a time. Do you clean your gravel with each water change? Do you feed your fish Melamine? Have you added any new fish to your tank recently? What kind of filter are you using? How often do you change the media? Do you have fake plants, pink gravel or a sunken treasure chest? Is your heater working properly? Have your grandchildren been around the tank without supervision?
Have you read the Aquaria FAQs? http://faq.thekrib.com/
?????????????????????
MG
Altum
hopefully no melamine. No treasure chests or fake plants...maybe
that's the problem. ;-)
The "sore" is a light colored patch next to her mouth, about 2 or 3 mm
in diameter. It is light colored and looks rough, sort of like
lymphocistis or an abrasion. It doesn't look fuzzy or red like fungus
or a bacterial infection. She's eating well and her color is good.
She's holding her fins a little close, but the male is chasing her
some since he's horny and she's not. It hasn't changed in size or
shape since I noticed it Tuesday.
The tank is pretty much the same as always. The only difference is
that I got busy recently and the tank went about 3 weeks without a
water change, but the KH and pH held and the GH only fell a couple
degrees. Usually I change 40-50% of the water every 7-10 days. I
promptly changed 30% of the water Tuesday when I noticed her problem.
Filter is an Aquaclear and I rinse the sponge every month or so when
the flow slows down. No new fish in a few months and lots and lots of
fast-growing, pearling plants to keep the water clean. CO2 injection
is very stable, with no changes in the past four months. There is no
ammonia or nitrite in the water. I haven't tested nitrates lately,
but I've been using a light hand with the ferts because I wasn't
changing water . I've been dosing mostly Leaf Zone so nitrate should
be well below 20 ppm.
I've got Melafix in the water now. I'm going to change some more
water tonight and again over the weekend. I'm reluctant to do
anything else. I'm guessing it's just an abrasion and I'm hoping
clean water and Melafix will heal her up.
Melissa Phillips
Altum
worried because rams can go downhill so fast and females are hard to
find. Ah, well. I'll just change more water. LOL!
Thanks for taking a look at my saga. (Wonder where Mike who started
this thread went?)
--Altum
Dan
On Jun 29, 9:26 pm, Altum <Pt.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm just
> worried because rams can go downhill so fast and females are hard to
> find.
I didn't realize that female Rams were HTF. Speaking of Rams, are
original, regular Blue Rams less plentiful in the hobby anymore? I
saw a tank full of healthy ones a couple weeks ago & couldn't remember
the last time I saw that many at once, & it had been a while since I'd
seen any at all for that matter. They usually seem to be specially
bred ones, for color or longer fins. Seems like inbreeding would make
them weaker, & IMO the originals are beautiful. To me it seems like
trying to fix something that isn't broken. Were the Gold Rams bred
from the Blues?
I've seen the same thing with other SA cichlids, always breeding for
more color. Sometimes I wonder if it's because people don't raise
them long enough to see their true breeding colors.
Dan
Mike.
On Jun 29, 9:26 pm, Altum <Pt.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's my best guess. Or MG's "ram with a rammed nose". I'm just
> worried because rams can go downhill so fast and females are hard to
> find. Ah, well. I'll just change more water. LOL!
>
> Thanks for taking a look at my saga. (Wonder where Mike who started
> this thread went?)
>
> --Altum
>
> On Jun 29, 5:40 pm, Melissa Phillips <melg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Lol, I am still here, just observing until I have enough experience to
offer advice to others :-). For an update, first I added a 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to the tank, which raised the KH to about
80ppm when I tested it after an hour. I tested it again about 10
hours later, and the KH had dropped to 40ppm. Could the carbon filter
be absorbing the KH, or was 1 hour not enough time to allow the soda
to be fully mixed (I doubt this because the tank has very good water
circulation). I plan to add another 1/2 teaspoon Saturday when I do
another partial water change. By the way, how often is too often to
do a partial water change? Is there a minimum amount of time to wait
between changes to avoid stressing the fish, or is a 1-2 day wait
sufficient? I ask because I bought a test kit for ammonia (figures
that one of the most important tests isn't in the 5 in 1 test kit) and
my tank is at a level of about 1.0. The fish seem ok so far, but that
obviously is something I need to bring down. Nitrates and nitrites
are still at 0 according to the test kit, so the aquarium is
apparantly still in the first cycle of the nitrogen cycle. I also
bought some more gravel, since the gravel level in my tank is low,
probably less than half an inch on average. I plan on removing about
1.5-2 gallons of water with gravel vaccuming, rinsing the new gravel
in the removed tank water, and then carefully adding it. Would this
be the correct procedure? Should I remove the fish before adding the
gravel? Should I rinse the gravel in tap water instead of the tank
water? I am adding to, and not removing the already present gravel so
as to avoid removing beneficial bacteria. The water I am adding to
the tank sat out for a couple days, so it should be free of harmful
chemicals. Anything I am missing? thanks.
Mike Owens.
Melissa Phillips
Altum
On Jun 29, 10:14 pm, "Mike." <theseek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Lol, I am still here, just observing until I have enough experience to
> offer advice to others :-). For an update, first I added a 1/2
> teaspoon of baking soda to the tank, which raised the KH to about
> 80ppm when I tested it after an hour. I tested it again about 10
> hours later, and the KH had dropped to 40ppm. Could the carbon filter
> be absorbing the KH, or was 1 hour not enough time to allow the soda
> to be fully mixed (I doubt this because the tank has very good water
> circulation).
Probably the latter. Carbon does not absorb KH. Glad you got some
buffering going. Sounds like you'll need a full teaspoon in the tank.
I plan to add another 1/2 teaspoon Saturday when I do
> another partial water change. By the way, how often is too often to
> do a partial water change? Is there a minimum amount of time to wait
> between changes to avoid stressing the fish, or is a 1-2 day wait
> sufficient? I ask because I bought a test kit for ammonia (figures
> that one of the most important tests isn't in the 5 in 1 test kit) and
> my tank is at a level of about 1.0. The fish seem ok so far, but that
> obviously is something I need to bring down. Nitrates and nitrites
> are still at 0 according to the test kit, so the aquarium is
> apparantly still in the first cycle of the nitrogen cycle.
That's a good question. Stress from ammonia is much greater than
stress from changing water. Change it daily if you need to while the
ammonia spike is bad. Eventually, you'll want to be doing weekly
water changes. Then as the goldfish grow you'll probably end up
changing it twice a week while you shop for a larger tank. ;-)
You can use AmQuel or Prime to neutralize any remaining ammonia after
the water change. (Do NOT use Ammo-Lock; it can mess with your
nitrogen cycle.) Ammonia neutralizers can make test kit results
inaccurate, so it's best to test first, change water, and then add
enough AmQuel to dechlorinate plus treat what you've calculated will
remain. i.e. if you measure 2 ppm and change 50% of the water, add
enough AmQuel to dechlorinate 5 gallons AND treat 1 ppm ammonia in 10
gallons.
Also, add a teaspoon of salt to the water when you measure nitrite. A
tiny bit of chloride makes nitrite a lot less toxic. Keep adding a
pinch of salt when you change water until the nitrite is gone.
> I also
> bought some more gravel, since the gravel level in my tank is low,
> probably less than half an inch on average. I plan on removing about
> 1.5-2 gallons of water with gravel vaccuming, rinsing the new gravel
> in the removed tank water, and then carefully adding it. Would this
> be the correct procedure? Should I remove the fish before adding the
> gravel? Should I rinse the gravel in tap water instead of the tank
> water? I am adding to, and not removing the already present gravel so
> as to avoid removing beneficial bacteria. The water I am adding to
> the tank sat out for a couple days, so it should be free of harmful
> chemicals. Anything I am missing? thanks.
> Mike Owens.
Actually, I'd personally use barely enough gravel to cover the bottom
in an unplanted goldfish tank. It's easier to keep clean. But, to
answer your question just rinse the new gravel under the tap to remove
dust. There won't be enough chlorine clinging to the gravel to cause
problems for your fish, and you'll add dechlor anyway to refill the
tank. Don't move the fish; just try not to dump the new gravel on
their little heads.
Do you realize that leaving water to sit only removes chlorine and not
chloramine? You need to contact your local water company and find out
what they use. Your fish didn't die so it's probably chlorine but
it's better to be absolutely sure.
--Altum
Mike.
AmQuel? I added enough to treat 10 gallons to my tank yesterday after
my first ammonia test showed 1.0ppm, yet when I retested hours later
the ammonia level hadn't dropped. The bottle says it treats for
ammonia as well as chlorine and chloramine, but gives no specific
instructions for removing ammonia from an established tank, or even
whether it is designed for that use, rather than just eliminating the
ammonia produced from dechlorinating chloramine. The online water
purity report for my municipality says chlorine is what is used, but I
am not 100% confident that they wouldn't lump chloramine together
under the general lable "chlorine" (they sound the same after
all ;-) ). Thanks.
Mike Owens.
> Probably the latter. Carbon does not absorb KH. Glad you got some
> buffering going. Sounds like you'll need a full teaspoon in the tank.
>
> That's a good question. Stress from ammonia is much greater than
> stress from changing water. Change it daily if you need to while the
> ammonia spike is bad. Eventually, you'll want to be doing weekly
> water changes. Then as the goldfish grow you'll probably end up
> changing it twice a week while you shop for a larger tank. ;-)
>
> You can use AmQuel or Prime to neutralize any remaining ammonia after
> the water change. (Do NOT use Ammo-Lock; it can mess with your
> nitrogen cycle.) Ammonia neutralizers can make test kit results
> inaccurate, so it's best to test first, change water, and then add
> enough AmQuel to dechlorinate plus treat what you've calculated will
> remain. i.e. if you measure 2 ppm and change 50% of the water, add
> enough AmQuel to dechlorinate 5 gallons AND treat 1 ppm ammonia in 10
> gallons.
>
> Also, add a teaspoon of salt to the water when you measure nitrite. A
> tiny bit of chloride makes nitrite a lot less toxic. Keep adding a
> pinch of salt when you change water until the nitrite is gone.
>
Altum
On Jun 30, 6:10 am, "Mike." <theseek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is ACE by Jungle (ammonia chloramine eliminator) equivilant to
> AmQuel? I added enough to treat 10 gallons to my tank yesterday after
> my first ammonia test showed 1.0ppm, yet when I retested hours later
> the ammonia level hadn't dropped. The bottle says it treats for
> ammonia as well as chlorine and chloramine, but gives no specific
> instructions for removing ammonia from an established tank, or even
> whether it is designed for that use, rather than just eliminating the
> ammonia produced from dechlorinating chloramine. The online water
> purity report for my municipality says chlorine is what is used, but I
> am not 100% confident that they wouldn't lump chloramine together
> under the general lable "chlorine" (they sound the same after
> all ;-) ). Thanks.
No, ACE is not equivalent to AmQuel or Prime. Seachem and Kordon have
tested their products to be sure the bound ammonia is still available
to bacteria and plants. Some people get into "stuck cycles" where the
ammonia never goes away and it seems to happen more often with the
untested ammonia neutralizers. You won't cause problems with one dose
of ACE, but I'd strongly suggest you get one of the tested brands
while the tank is cycling. I personally have the most experience
cycling with plain AmQuel (not AmQuel+) so that's why I recommend it.
If a water company has "chlorine" in the report, that's what it is.
Lucky you! I hate the chloramine around here. There's a great,
inexpensive thiosulfate dechlorinator called Genesis you can use once
your tank is cycled.
--Altum
Mike.
water change, added the gravel, and added a teaspoon of baking soda to
the added water. After about two hours, the water looks a little
cloudy still, but the ammonia level looks to be under 0.5ppm and the
KH is around 120ppm. I bought a new pH test kit because the 5 in one
set is very hard to differentiate between the shades of orange on
their guide, and this kit (Wardley mid-range pH Indicator) shows a pH
of around 7.2. The previous level with the other kit looked to be
around 6.8, but it could have been in the 7.2 range, so I can't say
for certain that the level is any different from two days ago. I know
it is more important to have a steady pH than to keep changing the pH
to try to get a "perfect" level, but is this an optimal level of pH
for goldfish, or do they prefer more acidic water (or more basic
even)? Thanks for all the advice so far :-).
Mike Owens.
Altum
bloom of brown algae. ;-) Your hardness sounds great now, and the
ammonia is acceptable for cycling. The reading of 6.8 with KH of 120
ppm is very unlikely in a new, clean tank, so I'd tend to believe the
7.2 reading.
Goldfish are very flexible about pH. They prefer hard, alkaline water
and a pH of 7.2-7.6 is considered ideal, but they'll stay healthy in
anything in the range from 7.0-8.2, and probably be OK even outside
that. Ammonia is less toxic at lower pH, so during the cycle the 7.2
you've got now is just perfect if it holds steady.
Here's a goldfish FAQ NetMax and I wrote that you might find helpful.
http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=37#setup
--Altum
Mister Gardener
> Lucky you! I hate the chloramine around here. There's a great,
> inexpensive thiosulfate dechlorinator called Genesis you can use once
> your tank is cycled.
>
> --Altum
>
of the good or bad points, depending on how you look at it, is that I can
smell trouble well before it gets out of hand. A bucket of wastewater that
sat for too many days, a brine shrimp sieve that's due for a bleach job, a
sponge filter that is overwhelmed. I occasionally get a rotten egg smell,
and it took me the longest time to trace it - it was the water conditioner I
was using daily for my routine water changes. My first thought was that the
stuff had somehow "gone bad", it was an off brand of simply dechlor, one
drop per gallon; it claimed to perform no other tricks. So I grabbed my
bottle of Amquel + and used it for a couple of days. At 5 ml per 10 gallons,
that was a pricey route to take. I read the Amquel label and it said
something about a bad smell that would go away on its own. Sure enough, it
was the rotten eggs smell. 40 years of fishkeeping and I never noticed the
odor. It must be the thiosulfate - anyone else noticed that smell?
MG
Donna Camp
I've bought a couple of tank set ups this year - the ones that come with the
hood, filter etc + samples of food and water conditioner from Tetra. I don't
remember the name of the water conditioner; it did come in a yellow packet.
To say it smelled like rotten eggs was giving the smell a compliment! It
took me a little while to figure out what was causing the smell. It was so
bad that if I put an open packet in a drawer I had to keep the drawer open!
As much as I hate to toss freebes, any of those that I got after I
discovered it the smell got tossed!
Donna
Mike.
as well as this group before I set up my tank a few weeks ago. If I
had, I would have done a number of things differently thus far, but
hopefully I can minimize the damage :-). I do plan to upgrade my tank
size at some future date, but since I am just a poor college student,
I will have to scrape the money together before I can do that. You
mentioned adding salt in the goldfish FAQ; is it the sodium ion or the
chloride ion that is beneficial, or a combination of the two? If it
is the sodium ion, should more salt be added even though I have been
using baking soda to raise the KH? Or, if it is the chloride that is
desired, would adding salt in addition to the baking soda already
added raise the sodium level too high? And more generally, what is
the benefit the salt adds to a goldfish tank? I read somewhere else
in the FAQ's linked to the home page here that salt reduces the risk
of ick in aquariums for some species; is that the goal with a goldfish
tank, or does the salt serve some other purpose? Sorry for the never
ending questions, but I killed a number of fish a few years ago
because I had no idea what I was doing trying to set up a goldfish
aquarium. Hopefully I will have more luck this time. :-).
Mike Owens.
On Jun 30, 2:54 pm, Altum <Pt.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The clouding is very normal for a new tank. Next you'll get a sudden
> bloom of brown algae. ;-) Your hardness sounds great now, and the
> ammonia is acceptable for cycling. The reading of 6.8 with KH of 120
> ppm is very unlikely in a new, clean tank, so I'd tend to believe the
> 7.2 reading.
>
> Goldfish are very flexible about pH. They prefer hard, alkaline water
> and a pH of 7.2-7.6 is considered ideal, but they'll stay healthy in
> anything in the range from 7.0-8.2, and probably be OK even outside
> that. Ammonia is less toxic at lower pH, so during the cycle the 7.2
> you've got now is just perfect if it holds steady.
>
> Here's a goldfish FAQ NetMax and I wrote that you might find helpful.http://fish.turquoisewave.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&...
>
> --Altum
Altum
salt goldfish, but having a bit of sodium chloride around reduces the
osmotic pressure on the gills and they tend to be healthier. Salt
also slows the growth of some bacteria, keeping the long fins of fancy
goldfish healthy, and protects against parasites. Thus far, you've
added about 100 ppm of sodium from the baking soda. Since we're
talking about 500-1000 ppm, you would still use sodium chloride.
Don't give up if you lose some fish. It's distressingly common to get
sick fish from stores, especially if you tried to save money and
bought "feeder" goldfish. It may not have been anything you did. You
saw my post on my ram with a sore on her nose. She might get an
infection and die; all I can do is provide her with clean water and
hope for the best. One of my aquarist friends has a "Dead Fish Club"
cap. He says you have to have been keeping aquaria long enough to
kill 1000 fish to qualify to wear the hat. He's a truly expert
aquarist and his hat is a tongue-in-cheek reminder that sometimes fish
die despite our best efforts.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get a large tank for cheap if you
keep your eyes open. I looked at a beat up acrylic tank and stand
yesterday for $65 that was listed on Craigslist by a guy getting ready
to move. I passed on it because I'm looking for a 75 or 90. I called
the guy to verify that it was a 48x18 tank and drove all the way out
to his house on the "85 gallon" listing to find a standard 48x13 55g
and a guy too stupid or inconsiderate to actually use the ruler that
was sitting in the garage only a few feet from his tank. (People can
be such jerks!) However, another $20 in acrylic polish and a
weekend's time and it would have been a fine 55g goldfish tank if
that's what I had wanted.
--Altum
NetMax
more time over, than I'd like to admit ;~)
~~
> > > --Altum- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mister Gardener
One of the Angel breeders is selling thiosulfate crystals, one pound for
$3.25. Mix with one gallon of water and treat chlorine with one drop per
gallon. I wonder if it stinks like the others. But if the stink is natural,
then I guess that's OK - - maybe a chem-head could shed a little light on
what makes this stuff smell so bad.
I just realized I've hijacked an important goldfish topic. Ooops. Hope it's
not too late to type:
OT
Sorry.
MG
Mister Gardener
> You'd be surprised how easy it is to get a large tank for cheap if you
> keep your eyes open.
Since I've begun keeping my eyes open and letting the word out to people I
run into, I'm coming across a good number of tanks. It's yard sale season,
and I'm the guy in the white van that slows to 3 mph checking for signs of
an aquarium amongst the piles of junk. A girlfriend and her husband dropped
over this morning, haven't seen them for awhile, I showed her my fish room
and she told me that she's been cleaning out the basement at her place of
work and has three "big" aquariums she wants out of there. No certain if she
knew what "big" means, I asked her to show me with her hands - and doggone
it, they look like big aquariums! I've donated some valuable equipment to
her sheltered workshop in the past, so the aquariums will be free to me.
I'll betcha there are a lot of "student types" around that have old
aquariums stashed at their or their parents' homes. The most I've paid for a
yard sale tank was $5.00, for a 20 gallon long.
MG
Melissa Phillips
came from florida and local sources when available.
Dan
, is another pretty good source for tanks.
Dan
On Jun 30, 6:56 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Mike.
> It's both the sodium and chloride. It's not strictly necessary to
> salt goldfish, but having a bit of sodium chloride around reduces the
> osmotic pressure on the gills and they tend to be healthier. Salt
> also slows the growth of some bacteria, keeping the long fins of fancy
> goldfish healthy, and protects against parasites. Thus far, you've
> added about 100 ppm of sodium from the baking soda. Since we're
> talking about 500-1000 ppm, you would still use sodium chloride.
One quick question: If I add salt, and want to keep a level around 500
to 1000 ppm, over time what is the best way to keep that level from
drifting to high or too low? In the short term adding a teaspoon per
gallon (as per the goldfish FAQ you linked) would be fairly accurate,
but I can see how easily the concentration would start to slide over
dozens of partial water changes. Is there some easy way to keep track
of the salinity in the water without a great deal of expense for test
kits? I would imagine that saltwater aquarium salinity test kits
would be too inaccurate for measuring the numbers we are talking
about, or am I wrong? At what point would the salt become so
concentrated that it would be problematic?
> Don't give up if you lose some fish. It's distressingly common to get
> sick fish from stores, especially if you tried to save money and
> bought "feeder" goldfish. It may not have been anything you did. You
> saw my post on my ram with a sore on her nose. She might get an
> infection and die; all I can do is provide her with clean water and
> hope for the best. One of my aquarist friends has a "Dead Fish Club"
> cap. He says you have to have been keeping aquaria long enough to
> kill 1000 fish to qualify to wear the hat. He's a truly expert
> aquarist and his hat is a tongue-in-cheek reminder that sometimes fish
> die despite our best efforts.
Oh, I have already lost two fish already since setting up this tank,
though I think they were not healthy in the first place. The first
black moor I had died after a couple weeks, and the strangest thing
happened; overnight several thin white spine-looking things appeared
protruding from various spots on the back end of the fish, and it
quickly bellied up. The pet store said if it was a parisite like
hookworm, they would be wiggling around, but on examining the dead
fish they looked and felt like fish bones, and they never wiggled or
bent that I saw. He had a popped/deformed eye when I brought him home
(didn't notice till I got him home) and never was as active as the
other two fish I got at the same time, which still seem healthy (I
have been regularly monitoring them for any signs of illness,
parasites or any other indication that anything is wrong). The other
was one of two replacement fish I got for the black moor (I know, too
many fish in the tank for its size as it is already). It was small,
and seemed weak as soon as I got him here. He spent a few days
floating around and sticking to the filter intake before he finally
died :-(. The black moor I acquired at the same time though, as well
as the original shubunkin and orange fantail are still both healthy
and seem to be growing. The fish I lost when I first tried to set up
a tank a few years ago were all my fault though. First, I tried to
winter about 4 good size goldfish from the outside barrels in the 10
gallon tank, when the largest was easily 5 inches and the smallest at
least 3 inches. With them, I also didn't know enough to change the
water or do anything other than feed them (probably too much) and
change the carbon filter. At that time the thought of there being
necessary symbiotic bacteria in the water with the fish never entered
my mind, so I just dumped them in a tank full of new dechlorinated
water. After they died, and I heard the water should be changed
regularly (still not smart enough to actually research on my own,
after all, they are supposed to be easy to keep) I got 3-4 small
goldfish and proceeded to change ALL the water every other week, even
going so far as to bleach the plants and interior of the tank when the
fish (for some odd reason) didn't seem to be doing well. At that
point, I hadn't even heard of the Nitrogen cycle as it applies to fish
aquariums. Those fish obviously died as well. So after letting the
tank sit empty of fish and with an every evaporating level of water
for a couple years, I finally decided to try again and do it right
this time. Hopefully, with the help of the extensive knowledge base
of this group, I can have some fish that actually die of old age and
not my stupidity this time. Thanks again for all the help you have
given me so far.
Mike Owens.
Altum
the stinky ones. My bottle of AmQuel has only a faint plasticky smell
and I've never noticed a smell from thiosulfate. AmQuel+ and Prime
smell just awful. They've got some sort of thiol in them.
--Altum
On Jun 30, 3:46 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Altum
On Jun 30, 9:41 pm, "Mike." <theseek...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> One quick question: If I add salt, and want to keep a level around 500
> to 1000 ppm, over time what is the best way to keep that level from
> drifting to high or too low? In the short term adding a teaspoon per
> gallon (as per the goldfish FAQ you linked) would be fairly accurate,
> but I can see how easily the concentration would start to slide over
> dozens of partial water changes. Is there some easy way to keep track
> of the salinity in the water without a great deal of expense for test
> kits? I would imagine that saltwater aquarium salinity test kits
> would be too inaccurate for measuring the numbers we are talking
> about, or am I wrong? At what point would the salt become so
> concentrated that it would be problematic?
You take advantage of the asymptotic nature of water changes. If
you're changing 25% of the water, you will never accumulate more than
4x what's added to the water. This means you can add 2 tsp of salt at
each water change and the salt will hover right around 8 tsp in the
tank. If you change a little more water one time and a little less the
next, it will still even out. If you're worried, do an occasional 20%
water change without the salt - that's actually what I used to do when
I ran my tanks with salt.
As to how much is harmful, goldfish tolerate up to 3 ppt. That amount
would be problematic for your plants, though. You can measure low
levels of salinity with a refractometer, but they're kind of
expensive. There isn't a test kit and hydrometers are not sensitive
enough.
You're welcome. I think you're on the right track this time
around. :-)
--Altum
Mister Gardener
> You take advantage of the asymptotic nature of water changes.
Sheesh. You know some big words. I looked it up in Webster and found
"asymptote: a straight line associated with a curve such that as a point
moves along an infinite branch of the curve the distance from the point to
the line approaches zero and the slope of the curve at the point approaches
the slope of the line."
That makes it perfectly clear.
MG
NetMax
Essentially what you add is always being diluted, but what you take
out is not, describing a mathematical function which limits the
concentration of what you're adding to a ratio of what you remove.
how did I do?
~~
On Jul 1, 3:22 pm, "Mister Gardener" <mrgarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Mike.
target is around 500-1,000ppm, even a little error in what I add
shouldn't raise the level of salinity anywhere near dangerous levels
since I dont' have any live plants, just goldfish in the tank. Since
water is being taken out in partial water changes, and thus sodium
chloride is being removed as well, the drift in salinity shouldn't
hurt the fish.
Mike Owens.
> > MG- Hide quoted text -