Betta with bloated belly

[yng...@aol.com]

I'm getting worried about the size of our betta's stomach. Before I
thought he was just gradually getting fatter, so lately I have cut
back on feeding. Normally he fasts one day a week and the next day
gets betta pellets in the morning and frozen bloodworms in the
evening. He gorges on those so it's not uncommon that he gets a big
swollen belly after eating them, but normally by the next day or so
he's back to normal. I fed him frozen bloodworms Friday and he is
still big and bloated (today is Tuesday). I have fasted him today and
was planning to fast him another day and then give a frozen pea, but
after looking at articles on the Web I am getting worried that maybe
it is something more than overeating. Of course my worst fear is
dropsy, but he is acting completely normal and doesn't look like the
pictures I've seen online of dropsy (although those are probably
extreme cases.)

He is swimming normally, flares, comes up to the top of the tank
whenever I come to look at him in the hopes that he will be fed. He is
in a 6 gallon Eclipse tank planted with several kinds of plants, a
blue mystery snail (which I just now removed), a few ghost shrimp and
some unwanted ramshorns (I remove a bunch of them each week when I
clean the gravel). Weekly 30 percent water changes. I use Prime as a
water conditioner and have been adding a little Betta Spa.

I have a suspicion he has been eating some of the algae wafers I put
in the tank for the mystery snail. Could that cause bloating? I am not
sure if he is pooping or not but he is not lethargic and doesn't act
sick. After reading a bunch of Web sites and talking to the LFS, I
figured some Epsom salts might help and wouldn't hurt, so I added 1
level teaspoon dissolved in a cup of tank water. Later on decided
maybe that was too much and did a partial (25%) water change.

I have tried to get a good photo showing his stomach but of course he
isn't cooperating. I have some posted here (in one he is harrassing a
red ramshorn) but there is only one that shows his belly from the
bottom. I don't see any pineconing although again, it could just be
early. Or is he just bloated from eating so much? How can I tell?
Should I treat him for parasites or bacterial infection just in case?

http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current=binkyvssnail.jpg
http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current=binkybelly.jpg
http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current=binky7.jpg

Thanks for any advice--
yngver

[Frank Bayne]

From: "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com>
              ..............snip..........

I'm getting worried about the size of our betta's stomach.

yngver

   

         Stop feeding for a couple of days - looks to me like he is still eating somebodies food.

Put him in a quart jar and look for fecal droppings - if there is none, it's an intestinal blockage

treated with Epsom Salts  (1 tsp per 5 US gals.)...

If there is fecal droppings, look for worms, worm larvae, or eggs. Camallanhs and acanthocephalans

worms, larvae of live-bearing nematodes, or if the droppings are clear or white, it could be internal

hexamita. I make a medicated food with 4 oz. pack of frozen food (blood worms) and add 1/4 tsp.

of Metronidazole (for protozoans) and a 1/2 tsp. of Kanamycin or Doxycycline (for bacterial infection)

and feed twice a day for 10 days...

Only other thing I can think of is Abdominal Dropsy - treated by raising the temp to 84/86º and feeding

with the home made frozen food (above) for 2 or 3 weeks.............. Frank

[Rebecca Turp]

Thats a lovely looking fish you have!

My previous Betta was kept with some Corys, and he would eat a whole algae wafer before the Corys had time to notice it, even if I had already fed him a minute ago.
I am not a very experienced fish keeper, but to me the photos look like overfeeding. Maybe your Betta didn't get the day fasting this week because he was eating the algae wafer.
I would not feed him anything for a day, and then a bit of a (thawed) pea, then see how he is doing. Don't put any wafers in there because he will eat them again.

good luck and all the best

beki.

2009/1/14 yng...@aol.com <yng...@aol.com>

[Donna Camp]

I've had the same problem a couple of times with Betta's. I did what Frank suggested and ended up treating with Epsom Salts and that solved the problem.

Donna

[Tynk]

On Jan 13, 11:30 pm, "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com> wrote:

>
> http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current...http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current...http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current...

>
> Thanks for any advice--
> yngver

From what I see, it appears like he's just eating too much.
I would not rush into treating him.
The algae wafers can cause a bloating effect. I've seen it too many
times with the bettas I raise.
I actually had this problem yesterday with my male gold pearlscale
angel. I dropped in algae wafers after lights out and I saw him going
after one.
By morning he was bloated. He was in this condition until he took a
good poop. Let me tell ya, it was quite a dookie too. As soon as he
was done, he was back to normal. This took a couple of hours, so it
wasn't instant.
I'm thinking your betta has had a steady supply of the snail's algae
wafer, as well as his other foods.
I'd fast him, and not feed the snails either. After a couple days if
he's still the same size, then start to think about treating with
Epsom salts.

[yng...@aol.com]

On Jan 14, 9:17 am, Tynk <TY...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 13, 11:30 pm, "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> >http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/?action=view&current......

>
> > Thanks for any advice--
> > yngver
>
> From what I see, it appears like he's just eating too much.
> I would not rush into treating him.
> The algae wafers can cause a bloating effect. I've seen it too many
> times with the bettas I raise.
> I actually had this problem yesterday with my male gold pearlscale
> angel. I dropped in algae wafers after lights out and I saw him going
> after one.
> By morning he was bloated. He was in this condition until he took a
> good poop. Let me tell ya, it was quite a dookie too. As soon as he
> was done, he was back to normal. This took a couple of hours, so it
> wasn't instant.
> I'm thinking your betta has had a steady supply of the snail's algae
> wafer, as well as his other foods.
> I'd fast him, and not feed the snails either. After a couple days if
> he's still the same size, then start to think about treating with
> Epsom salts.

Thanks. He always ignores the algae wafer bits when I put them in but
last week I noticed he seemed awfully interested in one of them after
it had been lying there awhile. I thought at the time it was those
nasty ramshorns he was interested in, and he does attack the big red
one which I have left in there just because it looks nice. I even
thought maybe he is eating the baby snails, but if that were the case
I think there would be a lot less of them.

I also occasionally put in a Crab Cuisine pellet for the shrimp, and
he might be eating those too. As for the algae wafers, he must have
just started eating them in the last couple months because I've always
had a couple shrimp or a snail in there with him, and have put in the
occasional piece of an algae wafer. I don't think he was eating them
at first because he never got bloated before.

I'm hoping it's just over-eating but it has alarmed me that his belly
doesn't seem to be getting any smaller. Maybe when I cut back his
food--I was feeding 2-3 betta pellets twice a day (I realize now that
is probably too much) and went down to one pellet twice a day--maybe
that's when he decided to supplement his diet with other things.

I took another picture this morning which shows his big belly better:
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/binky9.jpg

It looks scary to me and last night when I started to look at photos
online of bloated betta bellies I was sure he is going to die, but
today I guess he doesn't look that bad. I don't think his stomach has
gotten any smaller but he's only fasted one day. At least it hasn't
gotten bigger. I removed the mystery snail to another tank and am not
putting any food in Binky's tank. He seems annoyed about not getting
fed but since he has plenty of energy to flare and harrass that
ramshorn snail, he obviously isn't feeling sick.

I did put in some Epsom salt last night but doesn't seem to have had
any effect yet. I'm going to fast him today as well and then tomorrow
evening try either a frozen pea or some frozen daphnia. Thanks for all
the advice. I sure hope he improves.
-yngver

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks, Donna. How long did it take for you to see an improvement when
you were using the Epsom salts?
-yngver

On Jan 14, 6:14 am, "Donna Camp" <mdogs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've had the same problem a couple of times with Betta's. I did what Frank
> suggested and ended up treating with Epsom Salts and that solved the
> problem.
>
> Donna
>

> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
> > **

[yng...@aol.com]

Okay, thanks. I already put the epsom salts in his tank last night, so
I guess I'll leave it in and not change the water again right away.
When I talked to my LFS, they said they didn't see bloat with their
bettas (probably because they barely feed them) but do see it with
goldfish, and they treat them with epsom salts. They said putting it
in the tank wouldn't hurt the biological filter.

I keep the temperature in his tank at 80F so I boosted it this morning
to 82, with the idea that if I need to I'll then go on up to 84. I am
fasting him (and the whole tank) for two days, and then I guess what I
can do is put him in an unused 2.5 gallon tank I have to watch to see
if he poops. But if he isn't eating anything, would there be any
droppings? I can't keep the temperature that high in the 2.5 gallon--I
only have one of those little mini-heaters for that tank that raises
the temp a few degrees, so it would be in the upper 70s. So I assume I
would only keep him in the bare bottom tank for day or two just to see
if there are any droppings.

With the Epsom salts, how long does it take to see some effect? It's
only been overnight but he looks about the same to me.

Since I know he will gorge himself on bloodworms, if I make up the
medicated food as you describe, how much should I give him per
feeding? One or two worms? Normally I offer him a glob on the end of a
plastic spoon and he grabs a big mouthful but now I think that's too
much.

Thanks so much. I hope these treatments help him.

Here is one more photo I took this morning that shows his big belly
better than the other pictures:
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/binky9.jpg

-yngver

[Tynk]

On Jan 14, 11:20 am, "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com> wrote:

>
> I keep the temperature in his tank at 80F so I boosted it this morning
> to 82, with the idea that if I need to I'll then go on up to 84. I am
> fasting him (and the whole tank) for two days, and then I guess what I
> can do is put him in an unused 2.5 gallon tank I have to watch to see
> if he poops. But if he isn't eating anything, would there be any
> droppings? I can't keep the temperature that high in the 2.5 gallon--I
> only have one of those little mini-heaters for that tank that raises
> the temp a few degrees, so it would be in the upper 70s. So I assume I
> would only keep him in the bare bottom tank for day or two just to see
> if there are any droppings.
>
> With the Epsom salts, how long does it take to see some effect? It's
> only been overnight but he looks about the same to me.
>
> Since I know he will gorge himself on bloodworms, if I make up the
> medicated food as you describe, how much should I give him per
> feeding? One or two worms? Normally I offer him a glob on the end of a
> plastic spoon and he grabs a big mouthful but now I think that's too
> much.
>
> Thanks so much. I hope these treatments help him.
>
> Here is one more photo I took this morning that shows his big belly
> better than the other pictures:http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/binky9.jpg
>
> -yngver

With all the foods going into his tank (for the snails, the shrimps,
and his) it's still very possible that it is just a matter of over
eating.
I'd still give the tank no feedings at all (that means everybody in
the tank) for a total of 2 days. If you fasted him yesterday, but fed
the shrimps, etc...he most likely still had some. You have to give it
time to see if his belly gets smaller without food. If, after the 2
days, it isn't any smaller..treat him.
If the belly gets even slightly larger without feedings, treat with
for dropsy symptoms.
IMO, you have to figure out they why and the what before you take
action.
On the other hand, even if it were dropsy symptoms, that doesn't mean
he'd act like he was sick.
Some do, some don't. Some fish will swell up in the body area
too...some only the belly area. Some eat and swim like nothing's wrong
at all, yet they can be so swollen you think they're going to burst
any second. Some get the "pine cone" effect, some don't.
That may all depend on which bacteria is causing the dropsy symptoms
( dropsy isn't a disease, it's just a term for that type of symptom).
The key to figuring out what's going on with him is that belly though.
Leave him in that tank though. You don't want to chill him if he's got
a bacterial infection going on in the inside. That'll only make
matters worse for him.
If he's swollen more...even the slightest, without feeding - treat
right away though.
With each post you've made so far it's pretty clear that he's been
getting too much food.
2 -3 pellets, twice a day is fine....if that's all he's getting. With
the additional foods, that's a lot.
1 pellet, twice daily isn't enough IMO.
Feeding only, or too much, dried foods can cause constipation.
Feeding pellets that haven't been softened with tank water prior to
feeding can also cause some bloating. They blow up inside the betta.
Do a little test and drop 3 pellets in a cup with some water. Wait a
little while and then go back to see how much larger they are. Heck,
even toss in a dry one at that point to really judge the difference.
Not all pellet food is the same either. The pellets I've used were
Hikari's Bio Gold. They swell quite a bit after soaking.

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks. Yes, I do normally feed Hikari's Bio Gold but I didn't know I
was supposed to soak the pellets first. I only reduced his feeding to
one pellet twice a day after Friday when I saw his bloated belly
wasn't going back down to normal. So it was only for a few days, but
didn't seem to help. Yes, during that time I was still putting in
about a quarter of an algae wafer for the snail and shrimp.

Okay, I'll leave him in his tank. My husband went to find medications.
Could not find Kanaplex (Kanamycin) and was told a lot of places
aren't carrying this any more. LFS said Maracyn 2 is the closest broad
spectrum antibiotic to Kanamycin. So he bought that. I won't start
meds if Binky's belly starts to shrink but I want to have them on hand
just in case.

Yes, he has been getting dry pellets every day except once a week I
give the thawed bloodworms. Sometimes I crush a shrimp pellet and give
him some of that instead of the betta pellets, but that's also a dry
food. Once in a while I have also defrosted a frozen pea, peeled it,
and put about a third of it in. He has pecked at it so I thought he
was eating it, but maybe the shrimp got it first.

He doesn't seem any more swollen so I am waiting to see how he looks
tonight. My husband thought his belly looked a little smaller but
isn't sure. In the morning I am thinking of either offering a bit of
pea or try some frozen daphnia.

I didn't know he might be developing dropsy and not act sick. I am
making more of an effort to reduce the number of baby ramshorns in
there, although besides keep scooping them out I don't know what else
to do. I wonder if they could have spread some kind of bacteria. I
also just yesterday noticed a little white thread like worm swimming
in the water, away from the betta. For a moment I thought maybe it
came from him, but I think more likely it was just a nematode.

One question--with the higher temp in the tank (I raised it to 82F)
should I add an airstone? I keep the water level nearly to the top to
minimize current from the BioWheel, and I thought bettas don't like a
lot of water movement. But I've also read that at higher water temps
the oxygen content gets lower.

Thanks again, I sure hope my betta starts to improve.
-yngver

[Harl Myers]

Obviously there has to be some space at the top as he breathes from the air space quite a bit.  He can go a long time without eating.  Fish do not burn calories to keep warm, the water does that.  They do the majority of their movement with a swim blatter, again no calorie burn.  So as you can see they need much less food then a mammal.  If you read the pellets that you feed it says you might have to wait 5 days for them to try the new food.  Yours has quite a head start on having spare food to live on...  believe me it can go quite a while.  Try going to www.bettatalk.com.  There is a lot of info on that site, but I am not sure I agree that you should treat all the water with salt and amquil.  I just use water and have no problem.  However I only have one and have only had it for a few months now.

[Frank Bayne]

From: "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com>

>          Stop feeding for a couple of days - looks to me like he is still eating somebodies food.
> Put him in a quart jar and look for fecal droppings - if there is none, it's an intestinal blockage
> treated with Epsom Salts  (1 tsp per 5 US gals.)...
> If there is fecal droppings, look for worms, worm larvae, or eggs. Camallanhs and acanthocephalans
> worms, larvae of live-bearing nematodes, or if the droppings are clear or white, it could be internal
> hexamita. I make a medicated food with 4 oz. pack of frozen food (blood worms) and add 1/4 tsp.
> of Metronidazole (for protozoans) and a 1/2 tsp. of Kanamycin or Doxycycline (for bacterial infection)
> and feed twice a day for 10 days...
> Only other thing I can think of is Abdominal Dropsy - treated by raising the temp to 84/86º and feeding
> with the home made frozen food (above) for 2 or 3 weeks.............. Frank

Okay, thanks. I already put the epsom salts in his tank last night, so
I guess I'll leave it in and not change the water again right away.
When I talked to my LFS, they said they didn't see bloat with their
bettas (probably because they barely feed them) but do see it with
goldfish, and they treat them with epsom salts. They said putting it
in the tank wouldn't hurt the biological filter.

 

 

           I brought up 'internal hexamita' because of the dry foods you said you were feeding - as

pointed out, some dry foods swell quite a bit after soaking. Figured I shouldn't call it 'Malawi Bloat'

being that it's a betta...

Epsom Salts won't do any harm to the bacteria within your filter, or any other fish you may have in

the tank, and can take up to 48 hours to work...

 

I keep the temperature in his tank at 80F so I boosted it this morning
to 82, with the idea that if I need to I'll then go on up to 84. I am
fasting him (and the whole tank) for two days, and then I guess what I
can do is put him in an unused 2.5 gallon tank I have to watch to see
if he poops. But if he isn't eating anything, would there be any
droppings? I can't keep the temperature that high in the 2.5 gallon--I
only have one of those little mini-heaters for that tank that raises
the temp a few degrees, so it would be in the upper 70s. So I assume I
would only keep him in the bare bottom tank for day or two just to see
if there are any droppings.

 

           

              No, you don't want to take him out of a heated tank and put him in something that is not heated

- that would do more harm than good. Guess I should have been a little more clear with what to do with

the quart jar. Fill the jar with tank water, put the betta in the jar, and put the jar into the tank. You might

have to put the jar atop something to keep the top of the jar above the tanks water surface, but that way,

it's the same temp, you can keep an eye on his fecal droppings, he won't be secreting any stress hormones

(pheromones) in the tank, and if it turns out to be Dropsy, he will already be quarantined...

 

 
Since I know he will gorge himself on bloodworms, if I make up the
medicated food as you describe, how much should I give him per
feeding? One or two worms? Normally I offer him a glob on the end of a
plastic spoon and he grabs a big mouthful but now I think that's too
much.

 

             Don't start pumping him full of drugs until your sure he just hasn't been over eating. If you do have

to treat him, feed twice a day, as much as he wants for at least 40 or 50 seconds. Keep in mind that your not

only feeding him, you will be treating him at the same time................... Frank

 

 

            

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks. Yes, with the way the hood is constructed on the Eclipse, with
the water level at the top of the glass (actually acrylic) it appears
full from the outside but there is plenty of breathing room under the
lid.

After seeing no change in his condition after the two days fast I am
convinced it is not overeating or constipation, so I am starting
treatment for dropsy. I know the chances of saving him are slim but
since he is behaving normally and doesn't appear to be suffering I'm
going to do what I can. I don't think fasting him for any longer would
make any difference.

I don't add salt to his water but just use a dechlorinator/water
conditioner (Prime) and some Betta Spa.

I also just have the one betta and he is our first. We were surprised
how attached we have become to him. I wish I knew what caused his
illness--maybe overfeeding but I don't know. I don't know for sure
that he was actually eating anything besides his pellets and
bloodworms because I never saw him. I was just hoping that was the
cause of his bloat.
-yngver

On Jan 14, 5:51 pm, "Harl Myers" <uneekf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Obviously there has to be some space at the top as he breathes from the air
> space quite a bit. He can go a long time without eating. Fish do not burn
> calories to keep warm, the water does that. They do the majority of their
> movement with a swim blatter, again no calorie burn. So as you can see they
> need much less food then a mammal. If you read the pellets that you feed it
> says you might have to wait 5 days for them to try the new food. Yours has
> quite a head start on having spare food to live on... believe me it can go

> quite a while. Try going towww.bettatalk.com. There is a lot of info on

[yng...@aol.com]

On Jan 14, 10:49 pm, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> From: "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com>
>
> > Stop feeding for a couple of days - looks to me like he is still eating somebodies food.
> > Put him in a quart jar and look for fecal droppings - if there is none, it's an intestinal blockage
> > treated with Epsom Salts (1 tsp per 5 US gals.)...
> > If there is fecal droppings, look for worms, worm larvae, or eggs. Camallanhs and acanthocephalans
> > worms, larvae of live-bearing nematodes, or if the droppings are clear or white, it could be internal
> > hexamita. I make a medicated food with 4 oz. pack of frozen food (blood worms) and add 1/4 tsp.
> > of Metronidazole (for protozoans) and a 1/2 tsp. of Kanamycin or Doxycycline (for bacterial infection)
> > and feed twice a day for 10 days...
> > Only other thing I can think of is Abdominal Dropsy - treated by raising the temp to 84/86º and feeding
> > with the home made frozen food (above) for 2 or 3 weeks.............. Frank
>
> Okay, thanks. I already put the epsom salts in his tank last night, so
> I guess I'll leave it in and not change the water again right away.
> When I talked to my LFS, they said they didn't see bloat with their
> bettas (probably because they barely feed them) but do see it with
> goldfish, and they treat them with epsom salts. They said putting it
> in the tank wouldn't hurt the biological filter.
>
> I brought up 'internal hexamita' because of the dry foods you said you were feeding - as
> pointed out, some dry foods swell quite a bit after soaking. Figured I shouldn't call it 'Malawi Bloat'
> being that it's a betta...
> Epsom Salts won't do any harm to the bacteria within your filter, or any other fish you may have in
> the tank, and can take up to 48 hours to work...

Okay, thanks. I only put the Epsom salts in last night. There aren't
any other fish in the tank, just a few ghost shrimp.

>
> I keep the temperature in his tank at 80F so I boosted it this morning
> to 82, with the idea that if I need to I'll then go on up to 84. I am
> fasting him (and the whole tank) for two days, and then I guess what I
> can do is put him in an unused 2.5 gallon tank I have to watch to see
> if he poops. But if he isn't eating anything, would there be any
> droppings? I can't keep the temperature that high in the 2.5 gallon--I
> only have one of those little mini-heaters for that tank that raises
> the temp a few degrees, so it would be in the upper 70s. So I assume I
> would only keep him in the bare bottom tank for day or two just to see
> if there are any droppings.
>
>
> No, you don't want to take him out of a heated tank and put him in something that is not heated
> - that would do more harm than good. Guess I should have been a little more clear with what to do with
> the quart jar. Fill the jar with tank water, put the betta in the jar, and put the jar into the tank. You might
> have to put the jar atop something to keep the top of the jar above the tanks water surface, but that way,
> it's the same temp, you can keep an eye on his fecal droppings, he won't be secreting any stress hormones
> (pheromones) in the tank, and if it turns out to be Dropsy, he will already be quarantined...

Okay, that makes sense and I do have some Ball jars to use. Would a
day in the jar be enough? He's fasted for two days and I don't really
see any change. It's possible on one side he might look a hair smaller
but I'm not sure. Viewed from the other side he looks just as big and
swollen as two days ago. Not worse, I don't think, but no better. I
don't think fasting longer is going to make any difference.

>
>
> Since I know he will gorge himself on bloodworms, if I make up the
> medicated food as you describe, how much should I give him per
> feeding? One or two worms? Normally I offer him a glob on the end of a
> plastic spoon and he grabs a big mouthful but now I think that's too
> much.
>
> Don't start pumping him full of drugs until your sure he just hasn't been over eating. If you do have
> to treat him, feed twice a day, as much as he wants for at least 40 or 50 seconds. Keep in mind that your not
> only feeding him, you will be treating him at the same time................... Frank

Okay, thanks. Looking at him tonight I could see that his belly is not
getting any smaller. It's been two days so I gave him a tiny bit of
smooshed up thawed pea, which he gladly ate. In thinking more about
the situation, while I have been assuming for a while that he was just
getting fatter, I am not sure he ever actually ate any of the algae
wafers because I never saw him do it. I had been cutting back on the
amount I was feeding but his belly was getting bigger. I wanted to
believe it was just overfeeding or constipation but I think now it is
something much worse, and while it may already be way too late I know
many people regret not starting treatment sooner. I couldn't find the
kanamycin at any of the LFS--I was told drugs like this are getting
harder to find at fish stores because people have been buying them for
human use. I was told the closest medication to it was Maracyn 2, so I
started that. I ordered Kanaplex online--if it comes before the five
day course of Maracyn 2 is done should I wait or can I switch to the
Kanaplex right away?

I did find the Metronidazole as Metro +, in a powdered form. I'll wait
until tomorrow to mix it up with some frozen bloodworm.

The thing in particular that is scaring me is that when I shine a
flashlight behind our betta, the swollen belly looks a bit
translucent, so I am worried it's actually fluid inside. Of course,
other parts of him look a little translucent too with a strong
flashlight behind him and when I tried this on a panda cory for
comparison I could see pretty much right through him, even the outline
of his spine so maybe it doesn't mean that much.

I still hope he will be okay but the symptoms seem grim to me.

I checked water parameters again, and they are ammonia 0, nitrite 0,
nitrate 10 (I did a partial water change yesterday), pH 7.5, KH 120,
GH 180.

He is our first betta and we are pretty fond of him but I guess most
first-time betta owners make a lot of mistakes. Poor thing.
-yngver
-yngver

[Frank Bayne]

From: "yng...@aol.com" yng...@aol.com

Okay, that makes sense and I do have some Ball jars to use. Would a
day in the jar be enough? He's fasted for two days and I don't really
see any change. It's possible on one side he might look a hair smaller
but I'm not sure. Viewed from the other side he looks just as big and
swollen as two days ago. Not worse, I don't think, but no better. I
don't think fasting longer is going to make any difference.

 

           I used to breed bettas - living in the jar isn't going to harm him at all,  I have never kept any shrimp

and don't know how they will respond to medications, and it's easier to see his droppings in the jar. The photo

of him, and the way he still goes after his food, doesn't add up to a sick betta - don't want you to be jumping the

gun on him. If he has an internal bacteral infection, he would be showing the symptoms by now - listless (sit on

bottom instead of swimming) and his fecal droppings would be stringy clear or white and slimy. With internal

hexamita, he would be bloated but not eating. Your betta looks and acts healthy, eats and is bloated. That sounds

like internal parasites (likely worms) more than anything, BUT, nothing showing up in his droppings, no new

fish have been added to the tank that would have been host to the kinds of worms or nematodes that are not

seen in droppings. Another symptom of internal parasites is when a fish fights to swim down, like he's stuck at the

top of the water. And then there is Dropsy - symptoms = swelling, bluging eyes, lifting scales, redness on fish

(blood streaking on skin, fins and tail). Dropsy is a symptom the fish has that could be due to any one of multiple

causes, some of which are treatable (internal bacterial infection, internal parasites, and dirty water), which with

your betta, the only 'symptom' thus for is being a little bloated, which came on slowly. Hell, I'm a 'little bloated' -

comes with age for some of us...

 

 

Okay, thanks. Looking at him tonight I could see that his belly is not
getting any smaller. It's been two days so I gave him a tiny bit of
smooshed up thawed pea, which he gladly ate. In thinking more about
the situation, while I have been assuming for a while that he was just
getting fatter, I am not sure he ever actually ate any of the algae
wafers because I never saw him do it. I had been cutting back on the
amount I was feeding but his belly was getting bigger. I wanted to
believe it was just overfeeding or constipation but I think now it is
something much worse, and while it may already be way too late I know
many people regret not starting treatment sooner. I couldn't find the
kanamycin at any of the LFS--I was told drugs like this are getting
harder to find at fish stores because people have been buying them for
human use. I was told the closest medication to it was Maracyn 2, so I
started that. I ordered Kanaplex online--if it comes before the five
day course of Maracyn 2 is done should I wait or can I switch to the
Kanaplex right away?

 

           I work my hind end off, but my wife has got me running around the block every morning anyway. If she cuts

back any more on my food - I won't be eating. She stop buying me 'the real thing' and switched me to Coca-Cola

Zero, and I still have that belly. I think you might have jumped the gun a bit on starting treatment, but no stopping now

that you started. Kanaplex - Maracyn 2, not much difference. The reason I said Kanaplex is because it won't harm

your bio-filter, but Maracyn 2 won't either. No, don't be switching meds in the middle of treatment - stick with the

Maracyn 2, and don't stop in the middle of treatment... 

 

 

I did find the Metronidazole as Metro +, in a powdered form. I'll wait
until tomorrow to mix it up with some frozen bloodworm.

 

           Since the only symptom your betta is showing (eats but is bloated = internal parasites), I agree, start treatment.

...............Frank

 

 

          

[yng...@aol.com]

On Jan 15, 5:05 am, Frank Bayne <frankr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> From: "yng...@aol.com" yng...@aol.com
>
>

> I used to breed bettas - living in the jar isn't going to harm him at all, I have never kept any shrimp
> and don't know how they will respond to medications, and it's easier to see his droppings in the jar. The photo
> of him, and the way he still goes after his food, doesn't add up to a sick betta - don't want you to be jumping the
> gun on him. If he has an internal bacteral infection, he would be showing the symptoms by now - listless (sit on
> bottom instead of swimming) and his fecal droppings would be stringy clear or white and slimy. With internal
> hexamita, he would be bloated but not eating. Your betta looks and acts healthy, eats and is bloated. That sounds
> like internal parasites (likely worms) more than anything, BUT, nothing showing up in his droppings, no new
> fish have been added to the tank that would have been host to the kinds of worms or nematodes that are not
> seen in droppings. Another symptom of internal parasites is when a fish fights to swim down, like he's stuck at the
> top of the water. And then there is Dropsy - symptoms = swelling, bluging eyes, lifting scales, redness on fish
> (blood streaking on skin, fins and tail). Dropsy is a symptom the fish has that could be due to any one of multiple
> causes, some of which are treatable (internal bacterial infection, internal parasites, and dirty water), which with
> your betta, the only 'symptom' thus for is being a little bloated, which came on slowly. Hell, I'm a 'little bloated' -
> comes with age for some of us...

Thanks, Frank. Actually it makes me feel better to think maybe he is
just fat, but wouldn't two days of fasting have had at least some
effect on his girth?

Here's how he looks as of this morning:
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/binky11509.jpg
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/yngver1/binks11509b.jpg

His belly looks just as big as before. I don't think it's bigger, but
it's not smaller.

I am going to put him the jar tonight to see if there are any
droppings. I'm not seeing anything that looks like it might come from
him. I gave him just a tiny morsel of thawed daphnia this morning as a
laxative, and while at first he wasn't interested, when he realized it
was all he was getting he did eat it.

There has not been an additions to his tank in some time. A couple of
months ago I did introduce two little otocinclus. I only qt'd them for
a week because the LFS, which generally has very healthy stock, said
they had had them for several weeks and they were healthy. After a
couple weeks one oto died--it looked like it had stopped eating--so I
moved the other one to a different tank so it could have some fellow
otos. It remains healthy. Unless the betta got something from those
little ramshorn snails I can't get rid of, the otos and the mystery
snail (now moved elsewhere), and a few shrimp are all that have ever
been in the tank. Being ghost shrimp, I think if there were parasites
inside them I could see them.

So could the otos have brought something in and it took a couple
months for his belly to get this swollen? As I said, the other oto
looks fine and only has the usual round belly well fed otos are
supposed to have.

>
> Okay, thanks. Looking at him tonight I could see that his belly is not
> getting any smaller. It's been two days so I gave him a tiny bit of
> smooshed up thawed pea, which he gladly ate. In thinking more about
> the situation, while I have been assuming for a while that he was just
> getting fatter, I am not sure he ever actually ate any of the algae
> wafers because I never saw him do it. I had been cutting back on the
> amount I was feeding but his belly was getting bigger. I wanted to
> believe it was just overfeeding or constipation but I think now it is
> something much worse, and while it may already be way too late I know
> many people regret not starting treatment sooner. I couldn't find the
> kanamycin at any of the LFS--I was told drugs like this are getting
> harder to find at fish stores because people have been buying them for
> human use. I was told the closest medication to it was Maracyn 2, so I
> started that. I ordered Kanaplex online--if it comes before the five
> day course of Maracyn 2 is done should I wait or can I switch to the
> Kanaplex right away?
>
> I work my hind end off, but my wife has got me running around the block every morning anyway. If she cuts
> back any more on my food - I won't be eating. She stop buying me 'the real thing' and switched me to Coca-Cola
> Zero, and I still have that belly. I think you might have jumped the gun a bit on starting treatment, but no stopping now
> that you started. Kanaplex - Maracyn 2, not much difference. The reason I said Kanaplex is because it won't harm
> your bio-filter, but Maracyn 2 won't either. No, don't be switching meds in the middle of treatment - stick with the
> Maracyn 2, and don't stop in the middle of treatment...

Okay. LOL, maybe I did jump the gun on treatment but it scared me that
after a several days of just one pellet morning and night and two days
fasting, his belly is as big as ever. But I know what you are saying--
my husband has that same belly.

>
> I did find the Metronidazole as Metro +, in a powdered form. I'll wait
> until tomorrow to mix it up with some frozen bloodworm.
>
> Since the only symptom your betta is showing (eats but is bloated = internal parasites), I agree, start treatment.
> ...............Frank

Thanks, Frank. I hope the Metro and the Maracyn get rid of the
parasites. I also raised the temp today from 82 to 84. Thanks again
for all your advice; I just hope I see some improvement soon.
-yngver

[Lisa Gerace]

I have a question after reading these posts.  My betta will not eat his pellets if I soak them.  The only pellets I can get him to eat are the Omega and I have bought him some really expensive ones that he has turned his nose at dried or soften, but he only wants Omega and he does not seem to want them when I soak them.  Is it going to hurt my betta if I don't soak the pellets?

[NetMax]

Bettas are sometimes not very active, especially without interactions or the water is cool.  Low metabolism equals low appetite and perhaps boredom.  I've always had more success with using a variety of foods in small quantities.  Have you tried bloodworms?

The hazard with pellets or soaking them, is that the fish might overeat.  Warm water, fast for a day and a few bloodworms might give you a better gauge of his general health. 

NetMax