Discus, Angel Fish and Silver Dollars, plus Kenyi's and Julie's

[Mark Breen Ireland]

Hello All,

To populate my new 79 Gallon tank, I adopted (paid a small sum) to a
family that were clearing out their tank. They had some huge fish,
including Oscars and Balla Sharks, which I declined, but I accepted
the following

2 Discus (6 inch Diameter)
5 Silver Dollars (4-5 Inch Diameter)
5 Angel Fish (3-4 Inch Diameter)
2 Red Tailed Shark (3-4 Inch Long)
1 Hugh Plec (6 - 9 Inches scarily long)

I already had 4 lovely Julie's (1-2 inches) and 4 really lovely Kenyi
fish (1-2 inches).

The fish are in the tank now about 3 weeks and are alive and swimming
around. They are not as busy as my cichlid tank, by a long shot, but
they are certainly fantastic too look at, if less exciting than the
cichlids. I have told my wife that it takes time to appreciate new
fish, IOW, I have to learn how to observe them. I suppose that it is
the same with my wife, it has taken me ten years to learn how to
observe and appreciate her also.

Regardng Feeding:
The silver dollars and the angel fish are eating well enough, I have
read that silver dollars can be shy to eat, but they seem to be OK.
The Discus however, are very hesitant to eat and I am worried that
they they are not eating and will eventually become unwell. I have
seen them eat once or twice, but really they do not jump for the food
the way the angel fish or silver dollars do. I have tried about six
different types of flakes and stick type food, but all the same
result. I also tried some frozen food with the same results.

What do you all think? Is the lack of eating something I need to
worry about?

The people that I adopted the fish from had a tank that was about 104
gallons (US) and I did consider buying the tank and just housing the
Discus in that tank, I know that Discus are delicate, I am just not
sure how delicate they are.

My only previous experience is with hungrey devils of cichlids and
other easy fish such as red eyed tetra's and tiger barbs, which devour
their food, so perhaps I am worrying unnecessarily about the Discus.

Thanks to all for any comments you care to make,

as always, I appricate your attention and your time,

Mark

[NetMax]

Can you ask the previous owner what they were feeding? Discus are
definitely non-agressive eaters. They like to pick at their food a
bit and graze along the bottom of the tank. A low plant growth (silk)
might give the food some hiding places for the Discus to discover,
otherwise it will be a bit of an experiment to find something they
will eat. Especially awkward is that they are carnivores (beefheart,
turkey heart, bloodworms etc) while the Kenyi and Silver Dollars are
herbivores. I think the rest are Omnivores, so it's the herbivores
who might suffer an excess of Discus-type foods floating around.

The only saving feature is that they grew up together, so there has
been some adaptation, but to what foods?

NetMax

[Mister Gardener]

NetMax wrote:
> Silver Dollars are herbivores.

I love silver dollars but all mine over the years have proven to be
highly efficient lawnmowers rather than simple herbivores that are happy
with just a vegetable diet. A group of several are gorgeous to watch in
a large tank.

MG

[Mark Breen Ireland]

Hello NetMax,

I have sent off a question to the previous owners asking what food
they fed previously. I suspect that it was a mixture, with so much
stuff in the tank, they probably just threw in a bunch of flakes.

I will let you know what reply I get.

Thanks

Mark

[Mark Breen Ireland]

Hello Mister Gardner,

haha, it is funny you say that. Yesterday during my PWC I harvested
two shoots of a fantastic broadleafed plant that I have in another
tank that is really thriving. I carefully planted the two shoots in
the gravel of the tank with the Silver Dollars. This morning I have
two fantastic clumps of root remaining :(

Oh well,

>A group of several are gorgeous to watch in
> a large tank.

Mine often look nervous, like nervous kittens, is this my fish because
they are only here three weeks or is that normal for Silver Dollars?

Mark


On Jan 3, 10:43 am, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:

[NetMax]

re: Silver Dollar's nervous behaviour

SDs are a food fish, hunted down by anything which can catch them, so
their protection-mode is to stay in a shoal and move fast. In an
aquarium, their shoal is small and they obviously have no where to go
fast.

I don't think fish know that there is no water on the other side of
the glass (it just wouldn't occur to them), so even though they can't
explore it, the rest of the room within their view is part of their
'world'. You've changed their tank, so the lighting is different, the
tank dimensions, the sound of the filters, and their view has
changed. Under these conditions, you'd be nervous too, but these fish
are already high-strung and skittish. An unexpected shadow could have
them darting around (could be a shadow from a predatory bird).

As with all skittish fish, the calming techniques are to provide them
the right environment, cover, ditherfish, and minimize the foot
traffic immediately in front of the tank. Dim lights can also help.
The cover for open water shoaling fish is floating plants, or very
tall plants which grow along the surface. SDs are sometimes used as
ditherfish for cichlid tanks, so what are ditherfish for SDs?
Anything which moves around unafraid and is too large for the SDs to
eat. Although they are herbivores, the 'if it fits in their mouth'
rule applies to SDs.

As for their being 'lawnmowers', yep, a new category to describe these
guys might be voracious herbivores. Think of them as part of your
aquatic composting system ;~)

NetMax

> > MG- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Mister Gardener]

NetMax wrote:
> As for their being 'lawnmowers', yep, a new category to describe these
> guys might be voracious herbivores. Think of them as part of your
> aquatic composting system ;~)

Which can get very frustrating while attempting to plant a nice stand of
grassy plants for them to feel safe and instead of enjoying their
somewhat increased protection, they eat it. I can imagine a huge mess
of them shoaling in really big tank. What is there natural defense
system from predators in their natural habitats?

MG

[NetMax]

They are related to pirahnas, so that's one evolutionary path some
took to deal with predators ;~)

I imagine from their color and shoaling that their defence strategy is
to confuse the predator with their numbers and rapid movement. If it
takes more energy to catch them, than is obtained from catching them,
predators will go after easier targets.

Discus look like pretty easy targets. I don't know what defense
strategy has kept them alive for so long.

When you think about it, there are a lot of aquatic creatures which
seem to have very poor survival skills. Safety in numbers?

NetMax

On Jan 3, 11:52 am, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:

[Mister Gardener]

NetMax wrote:
> They are related to pirahnas, so that's one evolutionary path some
> took to deal with predators ;~)
>
> I imagine from their color and shoaling that their defence strategy is
> to confuse the predator with their numbers and rapid movement.

If they're anywhere near the surface, their reflection of sunlight could
partially blind and confuse predators. And yes, they are very fast
movers. It's easy to wreck a tank while trying to net them.

I would think discus could use their darker striped coloration amongst
grassy plants in blackwater, similar to angels.

MG

[NetMax]

Wild Discus have a very matt green/brown patterned camaflauged (sp?),
so they try to blend in. Wild Angels have that characteristic striped
pattern which is part reflective and part camaflauge, so I don't know
*what* their strategy is!?

I wonder how well you tie-dyed Angels would do in the wild?

NetMax

On Jan 3, 12:25 pm, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:

[Mister Gardener]

NetMax wrote:

Wild Discus have a very matt green/brown patterned camaflauged (sp?), "camouflaged".

so they try to blend in.

They would blend in well at an army base, I suppose.

  Wild Angels have that characteristic striped
pattern which is part reflective and part camaflauge, so I don't know
*what* their strategy is!?
  

The believe their stripes blend in with the grasses they lurk in. Their silver isn't as shiny as silver dollars.

I wonder how well you tie-dyed Angels would do in the wild?

Probably not too well, unless they find a woodstock reunion. Although in reality, they believe they blend in with the grasses. Old survival  instincts are hard to break.

MG

[Altum]

It really depends on the fish. In a discus-only tank where there is
no competition, discus tend to eat slowly. Their natural behavior
without competition seems to be more of a grazing style. I've kept
discus in community tanks with angels and rainbows and they did start
to feed more aggressively. Mixing angels and discus is not usually a
problem in terms of feeding (there can be issues with diseases).
However, I've never tried keeping discus with fish that feed as
quickly and aggressively as silver dollars.

As with all touchy feeding situations, it works well to spread food
broadly across the tank. The slower fish have a better chance of
getting some that way. Discus are usually fond of frozen bloodworms,
and feeding a favorite food can also encourage them to eat quickly. If
the discus are just too shy and don't seem to be getting to the food,
setting up another tank may be your best bet.

--Altum

[Altum]

On Jan 3, 6:12 am, Mark Breen Ireland <mark.br...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mine often look nervous, like nervous kittens, is this my fish because
> they are only here three weeks or is that normal for Silver Dollars?

It's totally normal. Silver dollars are fast-swimming, jumpy fish.

--Altum