Fed up with Malaysian trumpet snails

[yng...@aol.com]

I would really like to get rid of the population of MTS in my 29
gallon tank. Unfortunately when we set up the tank a year ago, somehow
an MTS snuck in on a plant or something. In the beginning I tried
picking them out but you can never get them all.

Lately, yes, I know I have been overfeeding algae wafers but I have a
bunch of growing young ancistrus that I want to make sure are getting
enough food. I introduced some assassin snails, which have done a good
job for me in other tanks eliminating pond snails and ramshorns, but
MTS are harder for them to eat. I was hoping since there weren't any
other kinds of snails, the assassins would go for the MTS. Instead
however they have been breeding (never bred in my other tanks that I
saw) so now I have tiny assassin snails mixed in with the tiny MTS.
When the baby assassins get big enough I'll take them to the LFS,
unless they start eating MTS.

I read that Spixie snails might eat MTS so I got three of those. They
are pretty snails but I have yet to see them eat another snail, so I
suspect that's a myth and they actually just eat algae like most other
snails.

I'd consider some kind of loach if they would be compatible with my
other fish and actually would eat MTS. I have two adult ancistrus and
the babies, that are going to the LFS as soon as they are big enough,
some rummynose and glowlight tetras, and six hatchetfish. Clown
loaches get too big but is there anything else that would eat snails.
Maybe yoyo?

I've noticed I don't see MTS in my betta tanks so I wonder if some
bettas will eat the smaller MTS. I've never seen them do it, but some
of them, especially the females, spend a lot of time nipping at
anything they think might be edible so maybe they do eat small snails.

Any other ideas?
Thanks-
yngver

[NetMax]

Put the algae wafers in a fishnet hanging half down into the tank.
The fish will figure it out faster than the snails can find their way
in there.

I find my MTS at the surface in the morning and Bettas are carnivorous
top-feeders.

Hope that helps.
NetMax

[Altum]

I hate to disappoint you, but MTS are almost impossible to get rid
of. You can control MTS, which is usually a better option anyway.
MTS are generally good for tanks, as they keep the substrate turned
over and eat bits of food that make their way into the gravel where
fish can't get them. MTS are parthogenetic and mostly female so even
a single snail somewhere in the gravel can repopulate the tank.

Your assassin snails may start to keep them in check as they're
supposed to eat MTS. Loaches will also keep them in check, and
NetMax's suggestion of keeping food off the substrate will help keep
the population down. Unfortunately, MTS tend to find enough
nutritious bacterial and algal films to support a light population as
long as there are fish in the tank. Loaches seem to be able to suck
large MTS out of their shells if they come above the substrate and
will keep the population in check. Yoyos are fine, and I use pygmy
chained loaches in smaller tanks. Zebras and Pakistani loaches
supposedly work too. Really any botia-type loach will eat snails.

Bettas prefer to top feed, as NetMax says, but I agree with you that I
have seen them pick at just about anything moving in an aquarium.
Many anabantoids will eat planaria, snails, and other small inverts.
I think it partly depends on the individual fish, how hungry it is,
and whether it has learned to view snails as food. It doesn't seem to
be as instinctive with the anabantoids as with the loaches. Some
cichlids will also eat snails, particularly wild-caught fish. I kept
a wild-caught krib for a little while for a friend and he neatly
cleaned out all my big red ramshorn snails in preference to prepared
foods or even frozen bloodworms. Then he started hunting the Amano
shrimp. >.<

Supposedly some chemicals can kill MTS. There are reports of Fluke-
tabs working but I don't know that you would want to use those on baby
fish. Copper or salt will not work as MTS are copper-tolerant and can
live in brackish conditions. It's very hard to get enough
permanganate into the substrate where the snails live, as it tends to
reduce on all the organic material in the substrate before it kills
the snails. Since they have a tight operculum, they can also retreat
into their shells to avoid chemicals that are not in the water for a
long time.

To reliably get rid of MTS you have to "reset" the tank. The best way
is to discard all substrate, plants, and filter media (they get into
filter sponges really easily), scrub and bleach all equipment, dry it
and leave it bone dry for at least 2 weeks, as the snails resist
dessication for 3-4 days. If you can't stand to toss all the plants
you can pick them over by hand, saving cuttings and discarding tangled
roots where you might miss a snail. I find plants like pellia and
java moss are particularly hard to pick through so I replace those
from a snail-free tank. A permanganate soak is a good idea, but I'm
not convinced that plant-safe amounts of permanganate will kill MTS
because of their tight operculum. Make a mistake by missing one
snail, and they will be back.

--Altum

[inkmaker]

I have eradicated all the snails of tanks of 150 through 10 gallons.
It is simple and doesn't use any heavy metals or toxic compounds.

I have been so frustrated with the power filter getting stuck with
these SNALS!

3 doses and 7 years later the Plecos don't have any competition.
Cha...@inkmkr.com

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks, that's a nice idea. My baby plecos would figure it out I
guess; it didn't take them long to learn to all come running when I
drop some algae pellets in so I think they'd find them anywhere.

I did have three female bettas in the tank but moved them out when the
pleco fry arrived, since they were eating the fry. Now that I think of
it, that might have something to do with the increase in MTS. Even
though they are supposed to be top-feeders, one of the girls won't
feed from the top and only eats sinking food. She spends a lot of time
poking around the sides and bottom to see if there is anything worth
eating. If she can't eat it she spits it out, but she tries. I was
originally worried about her but she's as plump as the others so
obviously she finds plenty to eat.
-yngver

My male bettas, in their own tanks,

[inkmaker]

Well, I was hoping you were going to ask me how I went about killing
snails without Copper or toxic chemicals.
Flubendazole kills snails, even the MTS with little time.

Charles H

On Oct 16, 1:05 am, "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com> wrote:
> Thanks, that's a nice idea. My baby plecos would figure it out I
> guess; it didn't take them long to learn to all come running when I
> drop some algae pellets in so I think they'd find them anywhere.
>
> I did have three female bettas in the tank but moved them out when the
> pleco fry arrived, since they were eating the fry. Now that I think of
> it, that might have something to do with the increase in MTS.
>

[NetMax]

Ah - dewormer. Fluke Tabs will probably kill snails too then.

<snip> Fluke Tabs contain organophosphates. The active ingredient is
methyl-5-benzol-benzimidazole-2-carbamate dimethyl(2,2,2-trichlor-1-
hydroxyethyl) phosphonate, translatable as Mebendazole (a de-wormer)
and Trichlorfon (an insecticide).<snip>

But I'm prety sure my shrimp population would not be enthused ;~)

NetMax

> > > > yngver- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Altum]

On Oct 16, 9:27 am, inkmaker <char...@inkmkr.com> wrote:
> Well, I was hoping you were going to ask me how I went about killing
> snails without Copper or toxic chemicals.
> Flubendazole kills snails, even the MTS with little time.

Is flubendazole really safe for baby fish?

--Altum

[inkmaker]

Yes, I have used it with many families of fishes and their fry. There
is little effect as long as the fish aren't full of parasites that
when dead, will affect the fish.

[inkmaker]

The phosphonates are problematic with many invertebrates. It is best
to stay away from Fluke tabs unless you are dealing with Flukes and
those really destructive parasites. phosphonates are insecticides, and
powerful killers of cold blooded animals.

Charles H

[Kel's Mustang]

On Oct 15, 2:59 pm, Altum <pt.al...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hate to disappoint you, but MTS are almost impossible to get rid
> of.  You can control MTS, which is usually a better option anyway.
> MTS are generally good for tanks, as they keep the substrate turned
> over and eat bits of food that make their way into the gravel where
> fish can't get them.  

The time I had to bleach a 29g tank after a bout with the Angelfish
virus, I found the (MTS) snails survived it!
When bleaching gravel it must be churned a lot, rest, then repeat.
That's just for the disinfecting part. After the long process of
rinsing it (this was done out of the tank - in smaller portions) I
found A LOT of snails survived.
I was quite impressed with that ability, however also quite ticked off
too.
Their shells may have been sterilized, but if any fish can carry the
virus to healthy angels, why not a snail too?
So after all that work I ended up having to dump the gravel anyway.

Altum is right on about controlling them and how they're almost
impossible to kill (without harming fish or plants).

An easy way to catch a ton and hit their population where it counts:
After lights out and the snails come out in numbers - place a full
leaf of Romaine lettuce on the bottom of the tank. You'll have to
anchor it down to stays there.
You can put it in a "fish safe" glass jar and simply lift the jar out
when you've caught a bunch, then repeat.
I like a flat area, as IMO it catches more, and easier.
Take a small plate (like tea cup size) and some fishing line to tie
the romaine to the plate.
Any plecos, etc. will need to be rehoused for the night for obvious
reasons.
In no time that leaf will look like a mound of moving brownish points!
It's a little nasty looking actually. = /
With a jar, it's going to limit how many snails actually make it into
the jar.
Also during this time it's wise to take a net and scoop up the floater
snails at the surface, and wall creepers too.
Keeping an eye on their population is also easy. Every now and them
when ya find yourself getting up to potty at night - turn the tank
light on and check their numbers when they're out in force.

As for loaches - I've only had Clowns and Weather (DoJo) loaches. The
clowns did a great job!
Currently, the weather loaches I have now don't seem to care about
them.
However they don't really have to work too hard for their meals with
all the bloodworms fed in that tank.
I wonder if it's a learned action. The weather loaches I had with the
clowns a while back ate them.
These guys....I've never seen dining on escargot.

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks for the ideas. Coincidentally, when I brought a bunch of young
BN plecos to the LFS to sell, one of the owners told me she feeds
plecos fresh baby spinach leaves. I've never tried that before--I've
only given them zucchini slices and the insides of thawed peas (in
addition to their usual diet of pleco logs and wafers). So I am trying
that now. I have weighted down a spinach leaf and while the plecos
don't seem that interested, the MTS are coming out in droves. So I
should be able to use your technique and scoop out a lot of them using
the spinach leaves.

Yes, that's what scared me. I was out of town a few days and when I
came back, the filter had partially clogged and the water quality was
not so great. I didn't lose any fish but the sight of all those MTS
heading for the top was astounding. I scooped a lot of the inside
walls but with the little ones, they tend to fall back into the
substrate so I didn't get as many out as I would have liked.

Have been keeping my eye out for dwarf chain loaches. I figure now
that the BN plecos are getting old enough to leave home, I have room
for three small loaches. I'd love to have some clowns but they get too
big for my tank.

-yngver

[Altum]

On Oct 16, 7:29 pm, inkmaker <char...@inkmkr.com> wrote:
> Yes, I have used it with many families of fishes and their fry. There
> is little effect as long as the fish aren't full of parasites that
> when dead, will affect the fish.

Good to know! Thanks.

--Altum