discus and a heavily planted CO2 tank -- worth the trouble?
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
--LONG POST, PRETTY-PLEASE KEEP READING...--
I've been slowly and patiently putting together my 200 gal custom build tank that I aquired at a very good deal and repaired. It's newly cycled after about a month and a half. I've got plans all in place to start in with the purchase of a lot of planted-tank products and accessories, the CO2 injection system w/ automatic pH control, the high end LED lighting, top-end planting substrate, ferts, UV sterilization, reverse osmosis unit (100 gal/day output with 55 gal reservoir), redundant cannister filtration, and more... basically, "the works".
I've got the aquascape all planned out, the driftwood ready. I'm ready to buy the plants.
A couple of days ago I took it upon myself to do more reading about planted tanks, as if I don't obsess over it enough. It served as a huge reminder about just how much work is going to go into this, and I'm familiar with that and ready for it.
HOWWWEVERRR (sorry for shouting) the big variable is what I am not yet familiar with: DISCUS. I've never ventured into the world of Discus fish yet, and after about a decade of practice in freshwater aquaria I think I'm ready to give it a try. Right now I' on the cusp of a big deision for me, and that's why I'm seeking guidance here. I need to decide if I'm going to go ahead and create the planted tank of my dreams WITH discus, or if I am going to abandon the planted tank dream and just set up a bare tank with inert rocky decor and cater strictly to the discus.
I'm concerned that jumping headlong into the world of plants and the world of discus when I'm only very schooled in one of the two disiplines will result in disaster due to an undertanking for which I'm unprepared or in over my head.
I'm also concerned, given both the needs of the planted aspects of the tank and the demands of the discus fish, that even if I am abundantly successful it may not be worth the effort involved (an effort-cost that I can't even loosely estimate due to my inexperience with the discus). I already know how much time can be taken up in maintaining a lovely planted tank of such size, and I have heard that discus are also very high maintenance creatures... could this end up requiring more than, say 15 hours a week?
Having a healthy discus population in my aquarium is more important to me than the plants are, because I've wanted and dreamed of a discus tank for years. I just want to know if I can have my cake (discus) and eat it too (plants) without either failure, or bittersweet success at the price of an ongoing monumental time investment.
So I ask your opinions, all. What path should I take? Planted tank with discus, discus only, or even just plants and no discus?
(sorry for typos, I typed this on a tablet)
TIA-
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
NetMax
A planted tank CAN be a lot of maintenance - it can be a huge amount
if you like, or it can also be very low maintenance. The difference
is going to be your choice of plants (growing speed, light
requirements etc), the amount of lights & nutrients being supplied and
your landscaping ambitions. I've frequently received compliments on
planted tanks which were actually 'retirement' holding tanks with
plants. Almost zero effort was made to grow or trim the plants
inside.
A planted tank with high light and CO2 injection will force your hand,
in that it will accelerate time (plant growth), resulting in more
maintenance. Keep this in mind. If you go for a lush garden in 3
months, then in 6 months, you'll be trimming away several months of
excess growth. The faster they grow, the more maintenance you'll
have. Accelerated time also makes your water chemistry more 'tippy',
so if you were headed for a pH crash, it would happen much faster, and
you would more likely be unaware of it. This is where fish complicate
matters.
The only issue I see with fish in planted tanks (beside the obvious
stuff) is their health. The process of medicating tanks is frequently
not very compatible with large planted tanks. The meds become more
expensive (water volume), less effective (strong light breaks some
meds down and the plants are always filtering the water), and many
meds will harm the plants. I don't need to tell you about the
challenge of catching fish in a planted tank.
So a planted tank must start with 100% healthy fish. It takes about 3
months to properly assess the health of fish, so I start a holding
tank in parallel with a planted tank. This lets me stabilize my water
parameters and conditions independently of each other. The fish are
swimming in an empty tank (EMPTY = nothing but water), and the plant
tank can go through its CO2 gyrations elsewhere in the room. After
3-4 months, I'll start filtering them together, so the water
parameters will be identical after a couple of weeks.
For a 200g planted, you'll need about a 60-90g holding tank. Stock
with the adult population you want in the planted tank + 10-30% to
account for losses. In your case, maybe 7 Discus, 60 tetra (3 smaller
species), 8 Otos, 3 Bushynose, and in a separate holding tank - a
dozen Cherry shrimp.
While you're setting up the planted tank, you'll be in there daily,
moving plants, adjusting rockwork, checking CO2, adjusting the lights,
hiding heaters & pipes etc etc. You can do all this without
terrorizing the fish because they'll all be elsewhere, bored, swimming
in a low-light box, waiting for their day of freedom : )
This start-up method sets the stage where you can make mistakes, ask
questions and experiment with what will look and work the best for
you, without affecting the fish.
There's nothing too particular about Discus (vs other fish). In
temperament, they are similar to Angelfish. They can be as moody as
Oscars, but are not food-motivated. They tend to be picky about their
foods (frozen bloodworms are usually well received). They are fairly
hardy, partially due to the warmer water conditions being hard on
pathogens like bacteria, though they should be de-wormed. They prefer
to bottom-feed (grazers). They don't like to be startled (don't keep
medium-large fast fish with them). They like reasonably calm waters,
and fresh foods (like newborn Cherry shrimp). Keep areas which are
free of bushy plants (tall thin plants they can swim through are ok)
so they can browse for snacks (and collect any missed sunken foods).
Keep your woodwork thick (so they don't poke an eye out on a branch)
and vertical (so they can swim past them).
Piece of cake : )
cheers
NetMax
On Dec 30, 5:20 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
> I think you need to reconsider some basics before moving forwards...
Yes, as must be done in all things, this ninja has searched out the wisdom of the aquarium kung-fu masters.
> A planted tank CAN be a lot of maintenance - it can be a huge amount if you like
...and don't I know it! In the past I've gone "Tom Barr" in ways that the guru himself perhaps never imagined. I even invented a design for a DIY needle impleller for inclusion in a system that comprised the most efficient CO2 distribution possible at the time. I was going crazy, guns 'a blazing, with CO2 at mach 5 bubbles per second and plants doing things that were just down right unnatural. After they became sentient and started putting on small underwater musicals I realized I'd gone too far. It was a true planted aquarium love affair, and my wife quickly became suspicious. Of course, that's just a joke, because it was already abundantly apparent that I was spending waaaaaay too much time with the aquariums and there was nothing secret about it. I realized that the obsession had become somewhat unhealthy. I had lost sight of the true reason I set out on the planted aquarium journey; I wanted to establish a relaxing pastime that brought me inner peace. Instead, I had become slavishly consumed by it. I vowed a ninja vow to return to the true path and after starting *completely* over from scratch, I have devised a cunning plan to strike the balance of true harmony in a zen planted aquaria regimen.
The Discus were a component of the "fail safe" mechanism to keep my enthusiasm in check. How so? Because they need pretty soft water and pretty hot temperatures. This truely limits how much CO2 you can pump into the water as well as the plant species that will live in that environment. Why? Because with soft water we know that the KH buffer is almost going to be completely synthetic, based on mineral additives, and that it is going to be eaten up by CO2 atomic bonding at a rapid rate unless CO2 is released at a very throttled rate and KH constantly monitored.
So the question, why use CO2 at all, is now on the table. Well to answer it I reply quite assuredly: because it's the best way I've found over the last decade to keep algae under control. Quickly growing plants+CO2 out-competes the menace that is the cockroach of our hobby. No amount of SAEs or harmful algaeicides (sp?) or UV filtration gets rid of BBA. You just can't kill that beast! Two week total blackouts? Bah, doesn't even phase it. BBA would sail straight through a nuclear holocaust, I'm confident. You can only do one thing: starve it to death.
I think I can rightly find the balance of CO2, carefully selected plants, RO+tap 50/50 mix, re-mineralization, and /moderate/ lighting in a limited photoperiod-- yes, even in soft, hot water.
> or it can also be very low maintenance.
I'm aiming for something in the middle, with an initially high time-investment.
> Accelerated time also makes your water chemistry more 'tippy', so if you were headed for a pH crash, it would happen much faster
I'll be on top of this...
> and you would more likely be unaware of it.
Oh, but I will. The monitoring will be both manual and digital, and it will be constant.
> The process of medicating tanks is frequently not very compatible with large planted tanks.
I'll have the fish de-wormed and healthy for three months before moving them to the planted tank. I know that's a bit of an over-simplification, but I will just have to move any sick fish back to a quarantine tank for treatment if we have problems. I'm going to be UV'ing the heck out of the planted tank too.
> So a planted tank must start with 100% healthy fish. It takes about 3 months to properly assess the health of fish, so I start a holding tank in parallel with a planted tank.
Such is (now) the plan. PS- I love your selection of fish. I wanted to use bushynose a lot, but have been told to not use them in a Discus tank in the past. True SAEs?
> You can do all this without terrorizing the fish because they'll all be elsewhere, bored, swimming in a low-light box, waiting for their day of freedom : )
That had me literally laughing out loud for 5 straight minutes... HA!
> [Discus]... don't like to be startled (don't keep medium-large fast fish with them). They like reasonably calm waters
I'm going to work hard at devising lots of places of refuge and some shaded places in the aquarium as well, because I have four mini-ninjas, 7 and under, who LOOOVE the aquarium.
> Piece of cake : )
Ironically, cake has never been easy for me!
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
NetMax
eventually), but by then you'll love them too much to care.
Aquaria is about balance in everything, fish temperaments, water
parameters, nutrients etc. A Discus's slime coat is more nutritious
than normal (their fry feed off it), so if the Bushynose's diet is not
in balance, it might be tempted to augment his diet on the Discus's
sides. The Discus diet must be in balance or they might augment their
diet with small tetras ;-) It's all about balance : )
If you can maintain an algae-free balance, then remove the SAE and
Bushynose from the list. Do please keep the shrimp (and the water not
too warm), as they are tireless at balancing aquaria, eating algaes
and uneaten foods when in excess, and feeding the fish when they are
in excess.
For tetras, (and keep in mind that tetras don't look their best in
stores), Pristella, RummyNose, Harlequins, Lemons & Cardinals are on
the top of my list for Discus neighbours. Fishload is about filtering
- and with tetras - more is more. For example, I've filtered a
planted 60g with 600 Neons like it was a 200g. It was a lovely tank.
They shoaled in a mostly flat figure 8.
cheers
NetMax
On Dec 31 2011, 3:36 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja"
Altum
THAT much about water softness. Around here anyway, what keeps discus
healthy in our moderately hard water is 85-86F temperatures and 50%
weekly water changes. (That's the "high maintenance" aspect of
discus.) If you can keep that up, you can put them in a planted
tank. Also don't sweat the RO unless your water is crazy hard. Big
water changes are more important and RO gets really impractical on a
tank that size. One of my friends does 50% a week, the other siphons
down the water in his huge tanks until he gets the water level to the
dorsal fins of his fish.
Not many plants do that well at 86F but there are a few, like some of
the swords, java fern, and sagittaria. If you lower the temps, that's
when you have to have the crazy soft water and everything perfect for
the discus. It really cuts into their hardiness to be at cooler
temps. You don't need crazy amounts of CO2 to control algae. I've
always run tanks around 15 ppm and all is well.
I've seen ancistrus kept with discus. Just about any tetra is OK.
I've not seen discus eat cardinals although as Netmax mentions the
"fits in another fish mouth rule" still applies. Discus aren't that
fast though and cardinals relish the really warm water. Another
classic for discus tanks are rummy-nose tetras. True SAE's worked in
my friend's 150g discus tank and he had a breeding colony of
ancistrus. He didn't bother with tetras because he doesn't like
"puny" fish. LOL! My other dicus-keeping friend has a big shoal of
rummy-nose tetras with them.
--Altum
NetMax
water. He said they would not breed, but grew to the size of dinner
plates. I take these observations with a grain of salt, but I do
think their sensitivity is over-stated. Good stock is hardy, but hard
to find.
I've never heard or read of Discus eating smaller fish, however they
are more carnivorous than omnivorous, so if it fits in their mouth and
they can catch it - would be the general rule of thumb.
As Altum recommends, going easier on the CO2 and RO sounds like a very
good idea. You always want to balance on what is the least amount of
effort, because this will be the easiest to maintain, and fish prefer
consistency over ideal water parameters. Also 200g is getting close
to automatic water change systems. A drop every few seconds can add
up to a lot of water volume if you have an automatic overflow
equipped.
NetMax
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
* discus have near zero tolerance for nitrates when growing out and when spawing; as adults you can get away with nitrates more
* discus don't care about pH very much as long as it's somewhat sane and as long as it doesn't fluctuate; fluctuations are deadly.
* discus don't care about hardness near as much as they care about consistency. After they are aclimated to your water, leave it alone! This is good news for me, because I won't have to worry about the risk of pH crashing by using RO water and CO2. Let's be honest, RO+CO2 is a recipie for disaster unless you are constantly vigilant. There will always be a risk of pH crash-- you can diminish the risk, but you can't remove it
* discus don't tolerate temperature changes, and need to be nice and toasty warm at all times, even during water changes; water changes should be near the exact temperature and pH as the tank water
* it's all about the water changes. 30% three times a week, or 50% twice a week for discus you want to "raise" to adulthood. Otherwise, buy adults.
* feed live foods that don't foul the water
* vary the diet, and don't use flake food.
* bare bottom tank is almost required so you can get out any lost food or organic matter/waste on a daily basis; nothing can be allowed to settle in the substrate and become, eventually, nitrate
* quarantine like it was a religion; no exceptions
* put a pre-filter sponge on your cannister filter intake; no dying organic matter should get into the filter, allowing it to become a nitrate factory
* watch out for hex and hith disease, and be ready to medicate; have a sufficiently large hospital tank ready
* buy no less than 4 discus at a time, and try to keep them the same size/age so there isn't bullying
* buy discus from a local breeder who stands behind the fish purchase, and learn to identify stunted, sick, abused, and genetically deformed discus; I didn't know how to identify those things at first, and nearly dropped half a grand on bad discus off craigslist because I didn't know what to buy and what to avoid
* introduce discus first, tank mates later; they're ciclids and they need to get their pecking order sorted out first
* I can't believe how much I can learn in two days; the above isn't near the half of it
All of these things are good for me, except:
* I have a 200 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sump; huge water changes are going to be cost-intensive to say the least
* Live food, namely california black worms and beef heart, cost a lot more than spirulina 20
* I dislike bare bottom tanks, so I'm going to have to buy adult discus who are done growing (so nitrates aren't nearly so much a factor) and it's going to be 3x the initial cost; the bright side is that I won't have to raise them, which is hard, time-consuming, quite costly (they eat 3x more and you have to change water more often)
* I have a few extra purchases to make that I didn't anticipate: big hospital tank (including figuring out where the heck to put it), more UV sterilization (mine is currently inadequate), battery backup for my heaters, NEW and bigger heaters, a mini-fridge for my live foods, specialized medications, and all the stuff you either forget or didn't know you had to plan for that you have to buy at the last minute
~ph7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
I'll be doing a lot of work to find hardy ones before I "pounce".
Discus eat tank mates rarely if ever because they are supposed to be the slower fish you put in your tank, and because you must keep them well fed anyway. If they are eating tank mates, "you're doing it wrong"
Going to keep the RO unit on standby, and I will probably not use it unless I want to start raising discus or keeping wild caught ones. I have a very nice TMC unit that will do 100 gal per day for which I created a 55gal reserve. Based on my research, I won't need it. My water isn't that hard anyway.
CO2 will run at about 17 ppm, once I get to that point, and based on everything else I've said here and in my previous post, I don't expect that to happen for at least 6 months before I add plants and CO2.
I don't really want an automatic water change system, and you're !#@$ right that I'm going to be looking at a lot of $$ in water changes.
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
NetMax <comput...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I recall a customer who claimed very good success with Discus on well
>water. He said they would not breed, but grew to the size of dinner
>plates. I take these observations with a grain of salt, but I do
>think their sensitivity is over-stated. Good stock is hardy, but hard
>to find.
>
>I've never heard or read of Discus eating smaller fish, however they
>are more carnivorous than omnivorous, so if it fits in their mouth and
>they can catch it - would be the general rule of thumb.
>
>As Altum recommends, going easier on the CO2 and RO sounds like a very
>good idea. You always want to balance on what is the least amount of
>effort, because this will be the easiest to maintain, and fish prefer
>consistency over ideal water parameters. Also 200g is getting close
>to automatic water change systems. A drop every few seconds can add
>up to a lot of water volume if you have an automatic overflow
>equipped.
>
>NetMax
>
NetMax
tropical fish. What makes it more 'applicable' to Discus is the
financial investment which needs to be protected ;-) Discus are
somewhat unique in that they are:
1) large - which influences the tank size & fish load
2) slow - which influences tankmate selection
3) non-aggressive bottom grazers - which influences tank design,
tankmates (competition) & foods given
Most everything comes from these 3 points.
Example
"large & slow = lower metabolism = less active immune system = fish
which may get sick longer.
"non-aggressive bottom grazers = may not eat well = weaker condition =
may get sick more easily.
A slower metabolism makes them more susceptible to stress from
changing water parameters. At the opposite extreme is the zebra danio
who marches through the nitrogen food chain, pH and water temperature
changes without stopping) ;-)
All together : warmer water (less diseases & increases metabolism),
precision feeding with high protein foods (ie: live/frozen foods) with
less competitive tank mates, while maintaining stable & clean water
(lots of water changes and low organic matter buildup).
So ... you don't need to follow all that advice you've read (though
it's mostly correct), but it is useful to know why the advice is what
it is, so you can do things differently and get the same results for
the Discus. For example, with a high growing plant load, and a low
fish load which is properly fed (read - not over-fed), you really
don't need a lot of water changes for medium to adult Discus (anything
bigger than 2-1/2 to 3").
Bare bottom tanks are a necessity for many breeders (also especially
Angelfish) but not applicable for those size Discus. You also don't
want to be buying anything smaller than 2" Discus unless you're
comfortable with more of a gamble and have your game on with the
parameters.
I don't think you need a 'hospital' tank, but you do need a holding
tank to sort them out first. The distinction; holding tanks are
usually larger (60-90g) to hold many fish for 3-4 months, while
hospital tanks are small (14-25g) to minimize medicinal costs and make
the frequent sterilizing easier.
I had a friend with 4 large Discus. They would flop on their sides
when he did his infrequent 95% water change with poorly temperature-
matched water, which I admonished him to at least remember to add de-
chlor to. They were not 'Discus' as much as they were adult, bullet-
proof cichlids. The difference between fragile store-Discus and
robust home-Discus is about 3 years of a stable environment. However
at that point, the mold is set for many people, who still treat and
instruct others with white gloves ;-)
Best advice: research, get good stock, don't add new fish later
(disease vectors) and generally don't over-do (- the feeding, the
heat, the CO2, the RO water, the exotic diet, the pampering, the
jigging of the plants and other, hands in the aquarium activities etc
etc).
They only thing you can't over-do is the water changes, but you don't
HAVE to go crazy there either, it's a balance. Less water changes
comes from less organic compounds in the water, lower fishload, higher
plantload without rotting plant matter, better solids removal in
filtration systems, greater biodiversity (less organic matter
rotting), good aquarium design (less organic entrapment), feeding
properly (not over-feeding), and the age of the fish (babies are
exponentially more susceptible to water conditions).
as always though .. ymmv
NetMax
On Jan 3, 3:44 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Anyway, I'm going to try and buy some seven inchers from a reputable breeder like discus hans, or kenny out in san francisco who imports from japan, both very reputable and members of the NADA.
But what about all that water? The big tank in which I eventually wanted to put about 20 discus is now looking like a (literally) big mistake. I am going to try to get away with a 10% WC daily by basically just cleaning up an hour or two after feeding by siphoning out the gunk that collects in one corner because of the way I've got my filter and pump pointed. The rationale behind this is that I'm only starting with around 5 fish and that's not going to produce the same amount of nitrate ppm in a 200g that would be present with the same 5 fish in a 55g.
Also, is it true that you can't have much underwater current? That goes against the current (pun not intended) wisdom of underwater planting gurus worldwide; you are supposed to shoot for minimal surface movement and a good deal of underwater current to keep nutrients in constant movement against the plants.
Summary: is there a balance to be found in water changes with such a huge tank and only 5 initial adult discus, and is there a balance to underwater current? Some of the discus elite say sponge filters only, and 50% WC daily. YIKES THAT'S A LOT OF WATER!
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
NetMax
that fishload guideline (1" to 1g), which we always say is not very
accurate. It's lack of accuracy is related to the mass of the fish.
With small mass fish (ie: Neons), the guideline is much too
conservative. You can probably put 3 to 5"/g with Neon-sized fish.
The opposite happens at the other extreme. A 7" fish would need much
more than 7g, probably 1/3 to 1/5"/g so your 7" fish would need 21 to
35g of water. Twenty 7" Discus are going to need at least 400
unplanted gallons, more if planted due to the reduction of swimming
area.
In the final analysis, after you account for swimming space and
territory, the difference in water volume available and water volume
needed can be compensated for, by over-filtration, sump volume and
water changes. For example, I've had 30 to 40 three inch Discus in a
100g before, but this tank was on commercial filtration (two 24"
sponge stacks) and had four automatic 6% water changes per day.
I think a planted 200g with a 50g sump (JMO & depending on
aquascaping) would comfortably hold 7 Discus, 9 if they were purchased
at the same time at the same size.
As for sponge filters... great filters, but some unique
characteristics. They are particularly good at dissolving solid
organic matter, resulting in lower filter maintenance but higher water
maintenance due to the higher NO3 production (counteracted by the NO3
uptake of the plants). In a 120g test aquarium, I ran four 12" sponge
filters (hidden in a custom structure) and after several years of
inspection, they never needed to be cleaned. They only slowly
accumulated bits of cartilage (scales, bones etc). Their rate of
dissolving organic matter was faster than their rate of accumulating
it (because of their tremendous effective surface area). Highly
recommended.
Regarding water current ... the plant gurus might want low surface
current to minimize the CO2 outgassing ;-)
I usually design my lower currents to be functional, typically to wash
down to where I have provided a flat clear area for gravel vacuuming,
then back up the front glass and down the back and/or sides. The
amount and focus of the current depends on the fish types and amount
of matter to be penetrated. Higher with rocky mbuna tanks, lower with
sand bottom invertebrate tanks with short plants. Typically long thin
fish like higher currents, slow flat fish (like Discus) do not, so I
would use a modest non-concentrated current to bring any food missed
to the front of the tank where they can more easily find it.
Returning back to water changes, if a drop of water falls in an
aquarium every 2 seconds (imagine a thin plastic pipe the size of the
water supply to your humidifier) ..... calculating ..... that's 11
gallons/day or about 70g/week (about 30% /week on a 250g system). The
tank overflow drops 11g down the drain (or to your terrestrial plants)
every day. Rig the supply and overflow to your sump, and your water
changes will be nearly effortless (the effort is clearing the overflow
intake of vegetation periodically as needed, and in a sump - may never
be needed). At 11g/day, you (it) would be changing 4.4% daily, so
your municipal supply with 2 to 5% chlorine will be diluted to 0.08%
to 0.2%. Not enough to worry about, a carbon filter would knock that
back even further, Centaur carbon would take it to zero. An automatic
CO2 dispenser could deal with this rate of water exchange (much better
than with larger changes), and your pH would be much more solid
overall. What's not to like? : ) .... no water changes = no gravel
vacuuming ... no worries, sand substrate with medium-low filter
intakes, and no gravel vaccuming required (not that you would want to
do a lot anyways with a planted tank) : )
cheers
NetMax
On Jan 3, 9:55 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
I'm going to be using two rena filstar 400 (might get a third just for the sump). I will use spraybars to cut down on direct current. BTW you were right about the off-gassing comment.
Is it bad to filter right into/out of your sump?
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
NetMax
With cichlids, doctrine is to buy more than you need, smaller than you
want, and watch their mannerisms evolve as they grow up. 'Cull'
according to pecking order, defects, line breeding needs and tank
size.
No issues filtering the sump. Make your sump the filter with some
matt filters. Better yet, make your sump the live food hatchery,
continuously delivering tasty morsels. There must be a tropical soft
water invertebrate from the Amazon basin suitable for this purpose. I
briefly harvested tubifex worms (or some other nemotode) in a matt
filter, to the enthusiastic satisfaction of the fish for whenever one
of the worms went open water. ;-)
NetMax
On Jan 4, 1:12 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Regarding the filter pads for the sump, I'm already trying this out; I'm just so concerned about extra nitrification. "NO NEW NITRATES!", cry the discus guru populace on several internet fourums (foura?). I'll have to clean out the pads daily, which is easy come to think of it with a spray nozzle on my garden hose.
As far as watching ciclids grow up, I'm sure it's an awesome thing to behold, but I don't think I can afford the water bill. SimplyDiscus.com gurus say 50% daily for grow outs, and that it will take several months for them to grow. Even if I can afford it, I don't want to do it...
...Wellll, given a few good pumps I wouldn't mind as much. I've got a good 55 gallon reservior barrel and I could just pump the water into the tank and then refill it and dechlor before pumping it in the next time.
I just don't know. If I have to travel on business, there's no one capable of doing the daily WC for me in my absense. Now I'm thinking automatic WC systems again, but with no quick way to plumb the discarded water out of the house. And yet another thought is: an automatic water changer can't siphon out the garbage that a manual process can, and if I have to travel there will be no one to siphon either. Neither do I know of any automatic feeding systems for live foods?
Decisions, decisions.
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
NetMax
My inclination would be to buy them at about 2-1/2" (past most of the
critical grow-out stage), do 25% /week water changes and don't worry
about the nitrates in a growing planted tank.
Complicate from there forward ;-)
NetMax
On Jan 4, 2:58 pm, "pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
>
> read more »
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Your plant options get a bit more limited at 86 deg F.
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
NetMax
turtles, and turtles are food processors ie: waste generators). The
water returns via a Fluval 304, above water, soaking a vertical mat
(normally used for germinating seeds) which the philodendron has
impregnated with its root system. The water temperature is not a
concern (probably around 75F on the mat), and all the plant is above
the waterline, and running down the sides of the tank.
hth
NetMax
On Jan 4, 8:43 pm, "~pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
>
> read more »
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Thanks for the tip!
~pH7, Aquarium Ninja
Altum
On Jan 4, 5:43 pm, "~pH7, Aquarium Ninja" <p...@aquariumninja.com>
wrote:
predict which plant will be useful and weedy, especially when there is
CO2 in the water. There is too much allelopathy in aquariums to ever
know what will happen, and the nitrate sink in the summer can be
different than in the winter. Pothos or Philodendron will both grow
with roots in the water and tops out, but I've not found them to be
terribly fast growers compared to how they do in soil. For me the
true aquatic plants that grow to the surface like Sagittaria/
Valisneria or pennywort have been the ones to run wild.
If you're using substrate be sure to plant some nice swords. The
typical E. bleheri swords do really well in big, warm-water tanks.
Swords are particularly fond of nitrate at the roots and will pull
nitrate out of your substrate with their extensive root system.
--Altum
pH7, Aquarium Ninja
~ pH7, Aquarium Ninja
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