Goldfish Lawn?
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Slick Willy
Mar 26, 2009, 9:19:42 PM3/26/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I'm looking to explore new plant frontiers and the only real-estate I
have left is the GF tank. Right now there are two medium swords in
there in bowls. I've had gravel before but it made gravel vaccing a
bit painful and there was always the 'rockitis' issue? I've had
Hornwort (Dull), Java Fern (devoured), Onion Plant (died) and Annubias
(Salad) in there before. I thought I would add some Flourite to the
tank and plant the Swords for now. But I also saw where someone said
GF did not eat Riccia, but I could never find it local before.
Questions:
How much light for Riccia, where to buy?
Any thoughts on GF/Plant friendly substrate? Maybe sand? Is Playsand
fish friendly?
How to vacuum a GF lawn assuming it grows?
Is rockitis a real issue? I never saw it before.
Any thougths on a GF aquascape?
Current light is about 160W, 75G
have left is the GF tank. Right now there are two medium swords in
there in bowls. I've had gravel before but it made gravel vaccing a
bit painful and there was always the 'rockitis' issue? I've had
Hornwort (Dull), Java Fern (devoured), Onion Plant (died) and Annubias
(Salad) in there before. I thought I would add some Flourite to the
tank and plant the Swords for now. But I also saw where someone said
GF did not eat Riccia, but I could never find it local before.
Questions:
How much light for Riccia, where to buy?
Any thoughts on GF/Plant friendly substrate? Maybe sand? Is Playsand
fish friendly?
How to vacuum a GF lawn assuming it grows?
Is rockitis a real issue? I never saw it before.
Any thougths on a GF aquascape?
Current light is about 160W, 75G
NetMax
Mar 26, 2009, 10:17:38 PM3/26/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
If I remember correctly, Riccia Fluitans or Crystalwort is a small
floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
eat Riccia.
What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
NetMax
floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
eat Riccia.
What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
NetMax
Slick Willy
Mar 26, 2009, 11:01:45 PM3/26/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 26, 10:17 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If I remember correctly, Riccia Fluitans or Crystalwort is a small
> floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
> into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
> imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
> shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
> might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
> eat Riccia.
>
> What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
> in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
> You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
>
> A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
>
> NetMax
Some guy named Javadan :-) said GF would not eat it. Although he also
> If I remember correctly, Riccia Fluitans or Crystalwort is a small
> floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
> into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
> imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
> shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
> might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
> eat Riccia.
>
> What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
> in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
> You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
>
> A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
>
> NetMax
said it's high maintenace.
Ever tried Playsand (home depot) or do I need fancy Aquarium sand?
Silk Plants! Next you'll have Clown Puke in there. :-)
Andy Gratton
Mar 27, 2009, 3:31:25 AM3/27/09
to The-Freshwa...@googlegroups.com
playsand is good for a substrate so long as you have some Snails to bore through it to stop compaction. some silk plants are very good very lifelike and dont get eaten lol
2009/3/27 Slick Willy <will_...@yahoo.com>
NetMax
Mar 27, 2009, 10:25:02 AM3/27/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Well, *the* JavaDan wouldn't be pulling your leg. He might be
accurately relaying his experiences but fish are not going to be that
predictable.
There's several ways to maintain Riccia, typically with some stainless
steel mesh to hold it down and then it grows around it, hiding the
mesh. It might be an expensive experiment if your Goldies do what I
think they would.
I have designed and assembled a scary amount of aquariums, about 500
of them were in stores where I could help myself to whatever was in
the store for sale, or I could open thick catalogues and order
whatever fish or plants my budget could afford. This let me
experiment quite a bit. As an example, I could assemble a planted
mbuna tank, starting with planted & protected real plants, and then up
elevated tiers and finally up shear vertical rockwork with silk copies
of the same plant species. Limit the tank to about 3 species and use
lots of plants, and you cannot tell the real from the silk. The give-
away was when experienced hobbyists would be admiring the setup and
they would realize that a particular plant could not possibly grow
where it was (in a tiny divot of substrate on the side of a rock wall
in the shade), so then they would realize that it was not a real
plant. Otherwise, from all other appearances, they were all real.
I'd like to think it's another form of art, limited only by materials,
not by doctrine.
Goldies are plant-eaters. Plan on being limited to using Swords,
Anubius, Onion and a few others like thick Aponogeton, and then
experimenting with everything else *or* diversify into plastic & silk
*or* think about keeping other fish *or* forget about plants entirely:
Take a bunch of branches, cut to the same length as the height of your
tank, screw into a sheet of plexiglass and use it to replace your tank
cover, making a 'forest' of 'roots' for the fish to swim around in.
You'll grow nice algae on the wood and the tannins will color the
water nicely to contrast against Goldies.
: ) jmo
NetMax
On Mar 27, 3:31 am, Andy Gratton <anglerfis...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> playsand is good for a substrate so long as you have some Snails to bore
> through it to stop compaction. some silk plants are very good very
> lifelike and dont get eaten lol
>
> 2009/3/27 Slick Willy <will_st...@yahoo.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
accurately relaying his experiences but fish are not going to be that
predictable.
There's several ways to maintain Riccia, typically with some stainless
steel mesh to hold it down and then it grows around it, hiding the
mesh. It might be an expensive experiment if your Goldies do what I
think they would.
I have designed and assembled a scary amount of aquariums, about 500
of them were in stores where I could help myself to whatever was in
the store for sale, or I could open thick catalogues and order
whatever fish or plants my budget could afford. This let me
experiment quite a bit. As an example, I could assemble a planted
mbuna tank, starting with planted & protected real plants, and then up
elevated tiers and finally up shear vertical rockwork with silk copies
of the same plant species. Limit the tank to about 3 species and use
lots of plants, and you cannot tell the real from the silk. The give-
away was when experienced hobbyists would be admiring the setup and
they would realize that a particular plant could not possibly grow
where it was (in a tiny divot of substrate on the side of a rock wall
in the shade), so then they would realize that it was not a real
plant. Otherwise, from all other appearances, they were all real.
I'd like to think it's another form of art, limited only by materials,
not by doctrine.
Goldies are plant-eaters. Plan on being limited to using Swords,
Anubius, Onion and a few others like thick Aponogeton, and then
experimenting with everything else *or* diversify into plastic & silk
*or* think about keeping other fish *or* forget about plants entirely:
Take a bunch of branches, cut to the same length as the height of your
tank, screw into a sheet of plexiglass and use it to replace your tank
cover, making a 'forest' of 'roots' for the fish to swim around in.
You'll grow nice algae on the wood and the tannins will color the
water nicely to contrast against Goldies.
: ) jmo
NetMax
On Mar 27, 3:31 am, Andy Gratton <anglerfis...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> playsand is good for a substrate so long as you have some Snails to bore
> through it to stop compaction. some silk plants are very good very
> lifelike and dont get eaten lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 26, 10:17 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > If I remember correctly, Riccia Fluitans or Crystalwort is a small
> > > floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
> > > into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
> > > imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
> > > shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
> > > might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
> > > eat Riccia.
>
> > > What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
> > > in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
> > > You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
>
> > > A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
>
> > > NetMax
>
> > Some guy named Javadan :-) said GF would not eat it. Although he also
> > said it's high maintenace.
>
> > Ever tried Playsand (home depot) or do I need fancy Aquarium sand?
>
> > Silk Plants! Next you'll have Clown Puke in there. :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 26, 10:17 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > If I remember correctly, Riccia Fluitans or Crystalwort is a small
> > > floating plant which (through some effort) can sometimes be coaxed
> > > into staying rooted. It is a small soft textured plant. I cannot
> > > imagine a Goldfish having any reservations about tearing it into
> > > shredded salad. While I've never personally tried it, I think it
> > > might be a cruel and expensive hoax to suggest a Goldfish would not
> > > eat Riccia.
>
> > > What is rockitis? Yes, Goldfish do sometimes get gravel stones caught
> > > in their mouths. They 'mouth' everything. Sand is a good substrate.
> > > You vacuum along the surface of the sand.
>
> > > A GF plantscape is in a word, silk. jmo
>
> > > NetMax
>
> > Some guy named Javadan :-) said GF would not eat it. Although he also
> > said it's high maintenace.
>
> > Ever tried Playsand (home depot) or do I need fancy Aquarium sand?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mister Gardener
Mar 27, 2009, 10:45:47 AM3/27/09
to The-Freshwa...@googlegroups.com
NetMax wrote:
> Take a bunch of branches, cut to the same length as the height of your
> tank, screw into a sheet of plexiglass and use it to replace your tank
> cover, making a 'forest' of 'roots' for the fish to swim around in.
> You'll grow nice algae on the wood and the tannins will color the
> water nicely to contrast against Goldies.
Way cool. Groovy. Fab. Neat idea. Never though of branching from above > Take a bunch of branches, cut to the same length as the height of your
> tank, screw into a sheet of plexiglass and use it to replace your tank
> cover, making a 'forest' of 'roots' for the fish to swim around in.
> You'll grow nice algae on the wood and the tannins will color the
> water nicely to contrast against Goldies.
instead of below. Far out. Man.
MG
NetMax
Mar 27, 2009, 12:48:16 PM3/27/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
LOL, chill dude, your hippie is showing ;~)
If you're thinking of doing this, use sun-bleached pieces without
bark, and keep to greater than 3/4" diameter. Attach each piece to
the plexiglass with a stainless steel screw (ie: #10 PHSS 2" or FHSS
if you countersink). Arrange the assembly so each piece of wood ends
1/2" under the substrate surface (with sharp tips) so you can remove a
panel (and associated roots) for cleaning the tank, and can then put
it back in place by gently pushing it down again. Put a plug, opening
or leave a gap in the plexiglass sheets for water refilling and
feeding.
It does look great, and casts some great shadows. Enough light gets
through for live plants, though the underside of the plexiglass tends
to get algae covered eventually from water wicking up the wood. You
can put glass plates on top if you are using a strip light instead of
polo lights (which attach to the tank sides). The whole concept of
vertical wood surfaces lends itself to thin tall fish, like Mono,
Discus and .... Angelfish !
NetMax
On Mar 27, 10:45 am, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
If you're thinking of doing this, use sun-bleached pieces without
bark, and keep to greater than 3/4" diameter. Attach each piece to
the plexiglass with a stainless steel screw (ie: #10 PHSS 2" or FHSS
if you countersink). Arrange the assembly so each piece of wood ends
1/2" under the substrate surface (with sharp tips) so you can remove a
panel (and associated roots) for cleaning the tank, and can then put
it back in place by gently pushing it down again. Put a plug, opening
or leave a gap in the plexiglass sheets for water refilling and
feeding.
It does look great, and casts some great shadows. Enough light gets
through for live plants, though the underside of the plexiglass tends
to get algae covered eventually from water wicking up the wood. You
can put glass plates on top if you are using a strip light instead of
polo lights (which attach to the tank sides). The whole concept of
vertical wood surfaces lends itself to thin tall fish, like Mono,
Discus and .... Angelfish !
NetMax
On Mar 27, 10:45 am, Mister Gardener <mistergarde...@email.toast.net>
wrote:
Altum
Mar 27, 2009, 3:33:48 PM3/27/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
to live in bright light and easily get CO2 from the air. Growing it
submerged requires that you duplicate its habitat underwater with VERY
bright lighting and CO2. You'd need double your current lighting - if
you can't grow Crinum there is no way you're going to be able to do a
riccia lawn. Keeping it tidy and attached to rocks requires a fair
amount of maintenance, as it tends to grow into clumps, break loose,
and float to the surface. Having goldfish pick at it wouldn't help
matters at all.
I've heard of people growing jungle valisneria with goldfish, but
yours are pretty aggressive about the plants if they're eating anubias
and java fern.
--Altum
Slick Willy
Mar 27, 2009, 7:36:08 PM3/27/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 27, 3:33 pm, Altum <Pt.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Submerged Riccia is a stunt. Riccia is a floating liverwort, evolved
> to live in bright light and easily get CO2 from the air. Growing it
> submerged requires that you duplicate its habitat underwater with VERY
> bright lighting and CO2. You'd need double your current lighting - if
> you can't grow Crinum there is no way you're going to be able to do a
> riccia lawn. Keeping it tidy and attached to rocks requires a fair
> amount of maintenance, as it tends to grow into clumps, break loose,
> and float to the surface. Having goldfish pick at it wouldn't help
> matters at all.
>
> I've heard of people growing jungle valisneria with goldfish, but
> yours are pretty aggressive about the plants if they're eating anubias
> and java fern.
>
>
Thanks,
I found I guy with Riccia and quite a few other plants, but he said
the GF would oblterate the Riccia. The GF sometimes tear up the plants
when they're bored. I spent $40 on a Java Moss Lava Rock once, but
the snails laid eggs in it and the GF destroyed it in about two days.
I did reuse the rock to grow the Annubia in the Tropical tank. :-)
I think I'll try the sand and replant the Swords for now. I can
experiment from there as NM indicated.
Message has been deleted
Dan
Mar 28, 2009, 6:33:34 PM3/28/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Mar 26, 11:01 pm, Slick Willy <will_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Some guy named Javadan :-) said GF would not eat it. Although he also
> said it's high maintenace.
riccia, being that the floating clumps multiplied. But I guess that's
still not proof that they weren't munching on it. The GF in those
ponds also had a lot of plants & bugs to choose from.
The way GF dig in the substrate, I think you'd be hard pressed to be
able to plant a lawn in a gf tank
javadan
angelwi...@gmail.com
Mar 28, 2009, 7:23:57 PM3/28/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I was wondering, just out of curiosity, since gf do dig in the
substrate could sand rub off their slime coat or get stuck in their
gills, it's so fine?
substrate could sand rub off their slime coat or get stuck in their
gills, it's so fine?
NetMax
Mar 28, 2009, 10:27:15 PM3/28/09
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I suspect their slime coat gets renewed as needed. Many fish dig into
and under the substrate (ie: Kuhli loaches, Banjo catfish...).
I think a grain of sand is still quite large relative to something
small enough to get caught in gills. Sand fines (the sand dust which
hangs in the water) would get caught, but since native waters can have
much more debris than aquariums, they probably have evolved a way to
backflush their gills periodically. jmo
NetMax
On Mar 28, 7:23 pm, "angelwitch3...@gmail.com"
> > javadan- Hide quoted text -
and under the substrate (ie: Kuhli loaches, Banjo catfish...).
I think a grain of sand is still quite large relative to something
small enough to get caught in gills. Sand fines (the sand dust which
hangs in the water) would get caught, but since native waters can have
much more debris than aquariums, they probably have evolved a way to
backflush their gills periodically. jmo
NetMax
On Mar 28, 7:23 pm, "angelwitch3...@gmail.com"
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