Temporary relocation, splitting tank in 2...

[LM]

Hi all,

This group is getting pretty sparse in activity.. but thought I'd post it here anyway.  If you know of other active FW groups, let me know too...

Anyway, currently I have a 37Gal (same footprint as a 29gal, but 4 inches taller) running on Eheim 2224...  which is rated to "up to 60gal tank" or something.  Knowing this day would come, I've been letting the fish die off naturally and not replacing them for the past 2 years.  so now it's relatively lightly stocked for the tank size.

8 chain loaches (I think.. although I have a hard time counting more than 7)
1 SAE (3in right now)
2 zebra loach
3 rasboras
1 cherry barb
1 or 2 oto (you can never tell how many are actually in there)

I have to temporarily relocate to a tiny apartment for about 7 months.  I've been freaking out about trying to take down this gawd old tank, cleaning it, and then moving it.  Not sure if the tank will survive (the center brace is broken, so.. not the most sturdy tank.  I've been running it with the water level lowered 4" to approximately 29gal tank height, which doesn't require a center brace).  but thank is filthy (UGF running 15years???) and needs to be torn down anyway, but moving that tank twice is making me think twice.  I've been trying to find a replacement tank to no avail (LFS doesn't stock that size anymore).

Anyway, it just dawned on me that since I've let the fish population attrition, I may be able to move them to a smaller fish tank.

Currently I have a 10gal standard and a 6gal eclipse.  I can move all the loaches in a 10gal (most likely 10 in all), and the other fish (3 rasbora, 1 cherry, 1 sae, and whatever oto I can find) in the 6 gal..  or is that too small?

I suppose I can buy a 20gal tank (relatively cheap) and keep all the fish together and keep using the Eheim slightly throttled so it won't blow the fish around too much (total overkill, but might be a good thing with the fish load).. or use Aquaclear 200 (rated fo 40gal tank. it's currently running on a 10gal tank with 1 oto and heavily planted tank--it was a betta tank, and the betta died and I just never replaced him).

what do you suggest?  since I know I will have to move that tank again in 7 months or so, it will have minimum of everything.. may be a thin layer of gravel, and few java ferns.. so it will be easy to catch the fish again, and keep the tank clean with maximum water volume.

Linda

[NetMax]

Hi Linda, 

If you were close, I could probably find you a loaner tank the right size, but your plan sounds good.  A 20g with canopy and a bit of gravel will suit.  I would use the Eheim for a couple of reasons, there's your filtering bacteria, and fish will often try to jump out of new tanks and it's easier to block that using a canister than with an HOB powerfilter.

The sequence is to set up the 20g, move the fish over, tear down the 29g and put it into dry-dock, after a few days/weeks move the fish into transport containers (5g pails) and move/set up the 20g in your new apartment.  Alternately move them and the canister directly from the 29g into a waiting 20g at the new place (depends on distance, availability etc).

An easy way to break up the canister return flow is to put the hose in the gravel and cover it with a flat piece of shale, though your loaches will get in there and cause all sorts of predictable chaos ; )  Alternately split the output into more than 1 spray bar to distribute the flow (drilling the holes larger will also help).  Another way is to install a UGF plate and connect the filter outflow to the UGF riser (the return flow will gently rise through the gravel).  For a temporary setup (less than a year), you don't need to be concerned about any build up.

cheers

NetMax

[LM]

HI NetMax!

bummer you are not (I'm near SFO).  I would love a 20G loaner!  I'm accumulating small-ish tank left and right.. and after I buy a 20G, I'm stuck with another one!!!

I guess the fish are used to high-water current (I have the Eheim with two powerheads in the 37G right now), so may be they'll be ok with just the ehiem and no powerhead with a spraybar.

now I have to go hunt for the 20gal.. hopefully used somewhere.

also, the move is local (3miles) and I have an overlap for the moving timing.  I can set up the temp tank and then move the fish and the canister in one swoop.. assuming I can catch them all.  I have a spare heater too.  so may be I'll start the temp with the heater  and one of the filters to keep the water circulating to stabilize the temp.  then move the canister filter and the fish (in ziploc? tupperware? 6Gal eclipse with half full water-so I can still carry it with all the fish?), float them in the new tank to acclimate temp and then dump them in? old tank is on acidic side (soft, well-vegetatted tank), I assume the new tank will be closer to neutral pH.  I guess I'll have to go through the "mix the water slowly" routine?

also, the old tank is BGA-infested (been struggling with it for a while now-another reason why the old tank needs to be dismantled thoroughly). is there a way to prevent the BGA transfer from the old to the new?  may be when I move the canister to the new tank, do a course of erythromycin to help eradicate the free-floating ones and hope they'll all die?  I guess I'll have to get some new tubings (distance to the tank will be all messed up).

linda

[NetMax]

The BGA might disappear by itself as it needs a specific set of parameters to do well (and as a minimum, your hardness will be changing).  I use Home Depot 5g pails with drilled lids for moves (fish, accessories, household items etc).  I'm not keen on using small tanks for moves as the sharp edges cause the water to splash much more than a rounded container.  Ideally, 3 or 4 pails of water and you wouldn't need to 'mix' much water to reduce shock.  Then the water will slowly harden with water changes over the next month.

Isn't moving with aquariums fun? : (  Most of my tanks are big, 60g, 120g and a 220g, so think of me and you'll feel better.  ; )

NetMax

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 1:49:23 AM UTC-4, LM wrote:

[LM]

I hope the BGA disappears.  they are a royal pain in the a**.  :-P

i think I about to get hold of a nice 25ga glass eclipse (negotiating pick up now). I guess I'll just use the Eheim as-is and flow rate should be ok.

never thought of using those 5gal pails.  I have one without a lid.. there is one with a lid but used to have paint in them.  may be I will line it with a trash bag to keep the toxicity out and then put the fish in there.  I better go hunt for them in the garage. I may have trashed it along with all the other stuff I'm doing a major spring cleaning (relocation will do this to you).

is there a way to sterilize the java ferns when moving to another tank to minimize BGA transfer?  without the fish, I can probably do something more drastic to kill the BGA but not the plants?

wow.  220g!  there are many on craigslist selling really nice stuff around 100gal range dirt cheap..  I was showing it to my hubby and he just said "no!" (space issues.  barely have enough space for my 30" tank...)

also since I'm using the same canister, I don't have to worry about the tank cycling, right? Should I clean the floss out few days before the move so the filter is relatively clean.. or should I leave it mucky when I move, until few weeks later?

Linda

[LM]

Alas, I had thrown out the paint pail with the lid.  but I still do have a clean 5G pail without the lid.  so may be just for transport, I'll fill 2/3 with water, put fish in, cover it with plastic and tie the top so even if it splashes it won't be a flood on the car footwell.

[NetMax]

I would do a routine clean on the filter before the move, but not to any extreme.  Nitrifying bacteria are fairly sturdy, and the extra water flow will keep them healthy and ready to multiply when they're asked to take over much of the load being done by the plants today.

There is a plant rinse people use to sterilize them (against algaes, bacterias, fungus).  I haven't done this myself and I don't know the recipe.  I haven't been a proponent of this rinse because of its limited value (you can rinse the decorations, but can you rinse the fish?).  To properly sterilize is a lot of work (heaters, filters, tubing, etc).  You'd need to reset the filter and be wiping out the good colony.  Miss anything and it may not be worth the effort, but another school of thought is if you knock it back enough, it won't return as easily.  BGA (cyanobacteria) is fickle, doesn't like turbulence, so that alone in a new tank might be enough.  I usually use hot water and dehydration to kill stuff off.

NetMax

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 1:49:23 AM UTC-4, LM wrote:

[LM]

I'll browse the net to find out more about this plant rinse.  as for the filter and the heater, I will do a normal maintenance on the filter few days before the transfer, and for the heater, do a hot water/vinegar/baking soda wash to kill off as much as I can.  I'm hoping by knocking out as much as I can from being transferred to the new tank, I can hold it at bay longer and may be eradicate it for good.  (hopefully removing everything from the clogged, icky UGF will solve the problem)

I don't think dehydration does anything to BGA... I vaguely remember drying a tank out and then restarting just re-brewed them.  hopefully full immersion of undiluted vinegar dip for a few minutes, and then a dip in the over-saturated baking soda and then 10min soak in near-boiling water will clean most of anything that is clinging on the hardscape/equipment.

the 25Gal tank deal is falling through (the seller is just very not responsive.  just a one-word reply to my inquiries and it's getting to a point of "lacking in seriousness to sell".  another party pinged me with a standard 20gal setup, so I might just give up on the 25gal (although 25gal is a much nicer setup and quality, and a few bucks cheaper) and go the standard 20gal.  given my betta did fine with a AquaClear that is rated at 40gal in a 10gal, my eheim in a 20gal should be ok.

linda

[NetMax]

I'm no expert, but my understanding was that bacteria will not survive dehydration, however as with any sanitizing agent, time is a variable.  Molds and fungi might re-hydrate into existence, but bacteria are too complex.  Aquatic bacteria are typically more susceptible, but there are exceptions where they build up in layers, so the deepest layers lie dormant (insufficient nutrients to operate) but they are under the most protection.  As always, ymmv, and if in the gravel, it's almost impossible to completely dehydrate gravel without spreading in the sun, or using an oven.

BBA is worth a teardown, but BGA operates in such a narrow set of conditions that it's easier to change the conditions than attack the BGA.  JMO : ) 

ps: the extra height of the 25g is nice to have.

cheers

NetMax

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 1:49:23 AM UTC-4, LM wrote:

[Jeff Walther]

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 6:59:17 PM UTC-5, LM wrote:

Alas, I had thrown out the paint pail with the lid.  but I still do have a clean 5G pail without the lid.  so may be just for transport, I'll fill 2/3 with water, put fish in, cover it with plastic and tie the top so even if it splashes it won't be a flood on the car footwell.

I think you said that the trip is a short distance, so this shouldn't matter, but remember, oxygen is the first limiting factor for fish survival duration in a sealed container.   Air contains more oxygen than water, so maximizing the amount of air in a sealed container (from which oxygen can diffuse into water) extends the period that the fish will survive.

For a short bumpy trip, more water may be good to absorb any shocks and bumps along the way.

Jeff Walther (still reading...)

[LM]

I hope th BGA will be gone for good.  they are a PITA...  I have some small gravel in the 10Gal that I will use to put in the 25G.  the stuff inside the 37G, I'm willing to just use it for landscaping outside...  all the muck and the mulm that will come out under the UGF of that tank will make any outdoor plant happy for years...

I got hold of the 25G after much questionable responses from the seller!  nice tall tank.. except it obviously had heavy use, was used for saltwater, and had some pretty serious mineral buildup.. so just finished scrubbing it clean.  it looks pretty heavily used. some internal scratching (probably from corals, etc).  but hopefully at least as a temporary tank it should hold up ok.  glass is THICK.  very nice.

checked the impeller in the Eclipse hood, and one of the end rubber stopper on the impeller shaft was mangled.  I did manage to get the impeller back in the socket, but not sure how freely the impeller would rotate with it like that.  So if I were to use the biowheel setup, i probably should either replace the impeller, or find out if they sell those end stoppers separately.  But I don't really like biowheel that much anyway (never had much luck--the wheel gets unbalanced and gets stuck in one position and won't rotate well), so I'll just take the filter assembly out and use my Eheim. (or I might just get a VersaTop and put my 30" strip light over it instead (AH Supply 55W CF, it will stick out 3in on both ends, but I can live with that).

[LM]

yes.  trip is about 4 miles, 10min drive or so.  so I will "fish" the fish into the bucket (I'll have an air bubbler or a filter while I try to collect all the fish.  that's probably going to take the most time.. current fish are mostly loaches...), take out the bubbler, grab the canister, drive over, dump fish and water into the half-filled 25G, top it off with fresh conditioned water and put canister filter on...

I guess when I'm ready to transport, I'll reduce the bucket water level so there will be more surface-to-volume for better oxygen exchange... or may be it wouldn't matter since number of fish won't change and they'll just inhale all the oxygen and deplete it out of the water if the water level is too low.  hm....

or may be I'll move the canister over to the new tank and have it running, use the aquaclear 40 (or whatever) and put that on the existing tank until I'm ready to move the fish... (less filter downtime)

I think as long as *I* survive the move, and find a soild location for the 25G, the actual move (provided i'm successful in catching all the fish), it should be ok...  may be I'll do several water changes on the old tank to make it closer to "new tank water" condition (it's probably near "old tank condition" so...)

linda

[LM]

Just a follow up in case anyone is reading...

it's been about 3 weeks, and so far no fish death.  I initially moved 2 of the rasboras to the new tank with the Eheim just to make sure everything is ok (the old tank was running off AquaClear 200 during this time).  Good thing I did, since I got an ammonia spike!  So I let the tank "cycle" for 3 days.. then all of a sudden ammonia went to zero.  zero nitrate, zero nitrite.  what gives???

Anyhow, since no more ammonia, I moved all the other fish over... but the problem was the water was too acidic (pH=6.0).  So I added crushed corals to slowly bring it up to about pH 6.6 or so...  Water is clean, no BGA (yay!), and as I said, no fish death.  all the loaches are still hiding, and SAE's black stripe isn't quite fully black yet, though...

But I'm glad I decided to do the two-tank relocation as opposed to trying to move the original tank.  the 37G had a broken center brace..  and yup, when I move it from the stand and tried to rinse it, it couldn't stand the distortion without the center brace, so it sprung a leak at the seam.. since I was unable to find any store that would order me a replacement top trim for the past 3 years, I've decided to just throw it out along with the construction debris instead of trying to re-seal the tank.

On a side note, I was logging on my tank log, I realized the youngest fish is the SAE at age 4... and the oldest is 7yrs old (chain and zebra loaches). hmm..  I have no clue how old otos are.  but I guess I shouldn't be expecting them to live too long after this even with a pristine tank condition.  bummer.  I don't know how long chain loaches live, but they are very difficult to replace, so..  once this lot is gone, I guess I won't have them anymore :-(

When I took down the old 37G, I was surprised that it wasn't all that bad under the UGF.  there was a lot of mulm in the gravel (pea-sized. don't ask why such a large gravel was used...) but otherwise the only thing that was under the UGF was few strands of amazon roots (they weren't doing well, so I trashed them).  I also had to trash about 50% of the java ferns and anubius.  it just won't fit in the new tank...

the 25G looks great.  but the Eclipse hood that it came with is literally falling apart. the previous owner must have been very hard with it. It came with twin light with one being actinic, so I don't know how well the plants would have done regardless (as of now, some of the leaves are "melting" so something isn't quite up to par for them).  So I'll be replacing it with a simple versatop-type glass cover, and temporarily use my 30" AH Supply-modified light until I decide if this tank will be a permanent tank, or I will be getting a new 30" tank when I move back.

[NetMax]

Glad to hear you have it sorted out.  I think ammonia (NH3) turns into non-toxic ammonium (NH4) at low pH.  As long as the pH comes up slowly, it will cross a threshold where the bacteria will consume it before it gets toxic for the fish.

NetMax

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 1:49:23 AM UTC-4, LM wrote: