Question about death of kuhli loach

[yng...@aol.com]

Sat. we saw some very pretty banded kuhli loaches at the LFS and
bought one (they said one alone is fine, and I have since read that a
few more would have been better). I didn't quarantine because I
already have some fish in my QT tank--I know I should have but we have
been looking for this color kuhli loach for a while and thought we
should buy while they had them. After the usual acclimatization we
added him to the tank, which is heavily planted, and he swam away. I
figured we wouldn't see him for a while.

This morning after at feeding time he did come out and swam around a
bit, then hid under a plant. I dropped a part of a sinking catfish
wafer near him. This evening I noticed him under a different plant,
but he was stretched out straight and I began to wonder if he was
dead. I nudged him with the net and no reaction, so I scooped him out.
Other than being stiff I didn't see anything wrong with him and his
colors were still bright, not faded, so I assume he had not been dead
long.

I immediately tested the water, and got ammonia 0, nitrite, 0, nitrate
10, pH 7.5. Temp in that tank is 76-78. Substrate is Eco-complete.
Other fish are a small albino BN pleco that never goes to that side of
the tank, four otocinclus, three rosy red minnows, seven glowlight
tetras, a few amano shrimps and two marble hatchetfish (one died). I
don't think any of these fish would bother a kuhli loach.

Any ideas as to cause of death? Maybe just stress? I don't think being
without any other kuhli loaches would have caused so much stress he
would have died in two days, would he? I don't think we will try to
keep them again now that we know they should be kept in groups, but
I'm just wondering if I did something wrong.

Thanks--
yngver

[NetMax]

While I'm not sure the Eco-complete granules are round enough to not
harm a burrowing loach or cory, the Kuhlii probably died from osmotic
shock. Somewhere in its travels (ie: origin to bagging factory,
during water changes before/after truck/airport/truck, wholesale
importer transfer to distributers, packing/distribution to stores,
going into a store tank, goint to a home tank) it may have encountered
a significant change in the water's osmotic pressure (ie: hardness,
nitrate concentrations etc), or in temperature, vibration or net
damage while being caught (common with Kuhliis). Generally, transport
shock manifests in about 3 days, so the fish appears fine, but
mysteriously dies for no apparent cause. The damage may have occurred
in an airport terminal in Singapore.

The only things you can do is to test the water in the store's fishbag
and match or adjust your acclimation accordingly to minimize the
osmotic stress on their gill membranes. Note that if you take a fish
acclimized to bad water (ie: very hard or high NO3 as found in poorly
maintained store tanks), and drop them into pristine ideal water
conditions, they will frequently die. It's not the magnitude, but the
rate of change which can cause their gill cells to implode or explode
from the sudden pressure changes. The larger the fish, the less
suceptible they are, but despite their length, Kuliis are very small
fish and I think they have a very low gill area to body mass ratio
which makes them even more vulnerable to water shock.

When moving delicate fish, buy extra and have them bagged
individually. This gives you extra store water to use in a small Q-
tank, so you can then control the osmotic shock by the amount and
nature of your make-up water.

Old established fish seem bullet-proof while young new fish may seem
to die if you look at them wrong. The difference is their acclimation
to the water parameters. Contrary to some expectations, fish are much
more sensitive upon arrival, and much less sensitive than you might
expect, after about 3 months. This explains why you can't keep them
alive at first, but then you can't kill them ;~)

hth
NetMax

[yng...@aol.com]

Thanks, this is really good information. Yes, the guy at the LFS had a
lot of trouble netting the kuhli loach--obviously they are really fast
swimmers. So he might have been over-stressed right then. What I
normally do is float the bag in the tank (I open it to let oxygen in)
and every 10 minutes or so, add some tank water. After about 45
minutes (I usually only do 30 minutes for hardy fish) I net out the
fish and put him in the tank. This one just sort of lay there in the
bag, so maybe it was the original netting that shocked him. The LFS we
frequent the most is only about 15 minutes away so the fish are not in
the bag that long.

We do have pretty hard water but since it's Chicago water, I'm sure
all the LFS around here have similar water parameters. I think they
had just gotten the loaches in about a week before, so I probably
should have waited. I didn't know they were fragile--I thought they
were pretty tough. I did research the substrate but read on a loach
discussion board that others have used Eco Complete successfully with
kuhli loaches, so I don't think that killed him. If it had, wouldn't
there be damage to his scales or skin? He had no marks on him.

I didn't think about the small gills on a kuhli--makes sense.

Anyway, thanks for all the info; it's helpful. Don't think we will try
getting anymore kuhlis with this tank--maybe some day in another tank
where I have room for several, and a sand substrate--although after
adding Tahitian Moon to one tank, I swore no more sand.

You are right about old fish. We still have three rosy red minnows
from a year and a half ago when I first got into the hobby, and these
are the three that survived all my mistakes. We'd sort of like to get
rid of them to make way for other fish, but it wouldn't be right. And
as my husband says, they will probably live ten years now.
-yngver

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On Oct 6, 9:43 am, "yng...@aol.com" <yng...@aol.com> wrote:
(...)

> Anyway, thanks for all the info; it's helpful. Don't think we will try
> getting anymore kuhlis with this tank--maybe some day in another
> tank
> where I have room for several, and a sand substrate--although after
> adding Tahitian Moon to one tank, I swore no more sand.

(...)

My only problem with sand is that it usually has a component of
aragonite (calcium carbonate). The consistency of sand is great for
trapping peat moss (and humates) with rooted plants potted in a candle-
holder, though, so at the present time, I hav no hope of getting my
tank pH optimal for the two kuhli loaches (and one longnose) in it --
not unless I want to re-pot half of my plants, and I do not feel like
doing that, because I would need a sledge-hammer to avoid breaking
roots on two of them (they're in cheap pottery, not glass, like my
newer and bigger plants).

I persisted in trying to make my tank acidic because of kuhli loaches.
They get very active in a sour tank. Kuhlis can survive at pH 7.5,
though, so I do not see a fault there. I do not see a fault in your
acclimation procedure, either, so I am thinking you might try another
store once you are over a death.