How much rust in tap water is too much for a water change?
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Kel's Mustang
Aug 31, 2010, 11:57:59 AM8/31/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Hey fishy folks.
Our tap water has run slightly yellow for at least 11 days now (most
likely a couple more than that).
It smells like iron when you're taking a shower, and will stain a
white toilet in two days.
The water Dept. doesn't seem to think much of it, and plays it off as
sediment stirred up in our old pipes as a result from both
construction and a water main break (across town and not apart of our
well for this area).
If it were anything like the normal rusty water we get from a main
break (we sure get a lot!), or construction folks opening up a hydrant
for their equipment....that would explain it away. However, it's run
light yellow constantly and will turn rusty orange when a hydrant is
opened or flushed. The 2 are very different.
A rush of sediment lasts for at most an hour after a main break is
fixed, and a whole 20 minutes after a hydrant is flushed. it's a dark
rust color too.
Our water has looked like there's some piddle in the pot for way too
long, and I've been scared to do any water changes.
Before this started it was construction all around our street that
made the water go rusty brown at any time....so I didn't do any
changes then either.
My water is getting so dark from the tannins that haven't been diluted
from water changes that my 75 now looks like the Nile river. ; O
I can only haul 7 gallons of Lake Michigan tap water (usually for my
breeder and fry tanks) from my sisters, and with as much as gas costs,
I don't do it more than 1-2 times a week.
A 5g bucket of freshwater is not that much of a big deal in a dirty
75g.
I need to do a full gravel clean, algae scrub down, as well as the
canister filter needs cleaning too.
Is this slightly yellow water from iron rust going to do harm to my
fish?
They're done with the construction around our street - so no more
random hydrant flushings.
The town apparently thinks it's fine enough for humans to consume. I'm
not drinking it. I don't even want my dog drinking it either.
However, my 75g really needs a proper cleaning.
What do I do???
Our tap water has run slightly yellow for at least 11 days now (most
likely a couple more than that).
It smells like iron when you're taking a shower, and will stain a
white toilet in two days.
The water Dept. doesn't seem to think much of it, and plays it off as
sediment stirred up in our old pipes as a result from both
construction and a water main break (across town and not apart of our
well for this area).
If it were anything like the normal rusty water we get from a main
break (we sure get a lot!), or construction folks opening up a hydrant
for their equipment....that would explain it away. However, it's run
light yellow constantly and will turn rusty orange when a hydrant is
opened or flushed. The 2 are very different.
A rush of sediment lasts for at most an hour after a main break is
fixed, and a whole 20 minutes after a hydrant is flushed. it's a dark
rust color too.
Our water has looked like there's some piddle in the pot for way too
long, and I've been scared to do any water changes.
Before this started it was construction all around our street that
made the water go rusty brown at any time....so I didn't do any
changes then either.
My water is getting so dark from the tannins that haven't been diluted
from water changes that my 75 now looks like the Nile river. ; O
I can only haul 7 gallons of Lake Michigan tap water (usually for my
breeder and fry tanks) from my sisters, and with as much as gas costs,
I don't do it more than 1-2 times a week.
A 5g bucket of freshwater is not that much of a big deal in a dirty
75g.
I need to do a full gravel clean, algae scrub down, as well as the
canister filter needs cleaning too.
Is this slightly yellow water from iron rust going to do harm to my
fish?
They're done with the construction around our street - so no more
random hydrant flushings.
The town apparently thinks it's fine enough for humans to consume. I'm
not drinking it. I don't even want my dog drinking it either.
However, my 75g really needs a proper cleaning.
What do I do???
NetMax
Aug 31, 2010, 3:23:02 PM8/31/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Water claimed safe for human consumption can easily kill aquatic
creatures, chloramines are an obvious example. I would buy an RO
filter.
NetMax
creatures, chloramines are an obvious example. I would buy an RO
filter.
NetMax
videoman
Sep 1, 2010, 2:05:19 AM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Bottom posted.
> > What do I do???- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with netmax - an RO unit would be a great investment for you.
You would most likely want to also get a decent supply of aquarium
water hardeners (supplements that add minerals, etc. to the water)
instead of cutting the RO water with small amounts of tap water - the
tap water you have could kill aquatic creatures even in these small
amounts. I know that it is usually taboo to recommend playing with
water chemistry (or in this case water compound ness) on this forum
but I would never trust your tap water and summary = get an RO unit
and water additives. Straight RO water without minerals will most
likely kill your aquatic pets so add some minerals and I would suggest
you do that by buying aquarium products that do that and enzymes, etc.
I have been watching your posts about your tap water and quite frankly
if I were you I would either get the RO unit and additives or somehow
sue your city utility management. I think the RO unit and additives
would be cheaper honestly and taking out your utility financially
isn't likely - they've got big money to play with and you don't I
don't think. Best fortune to you! Good luck all and later!
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with netmax - an RO unit would be a great investment for you.
You would most likely want to also get a decent supply of aquarium
water hardeners (supplements that add minerals, etc. to the water)
instead of cutting the RO water with small amounts of tap water - the
tap water you have could kill aquatic creatures even in these small
amounts. I know that it is usually taboo to recommend playing with
water chemistry (or in this case water compound ness) on this forum
but I would never trust your tap water and summary = get an RO unit
and water additives. Straight RO water without minerals will most
likely kill your aquatic pets so add some minerals and I would suggest
you do that by buying aquarium products that do that and enzymes, etc.
I have been watching your posts about your tap water and quite frankly
if I were you I would either get the RO unit and additives or somehow
sue your city utility management. I think the RO unit and additives
would be cheaper honestly and taking out your utility financially
isn't likely - they've got big money to play with and you don't I
don't think. Best fortune to you! Good luck all and later!
denizen
Sep 1, 2010, 9:10:43 AM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
> Hey fishy folks.
> Our tap water has run slightly yellow for at least 11 days now (most
> likely a couple more than that).
> It smells like iron when you're taking a shower, and will stain a
> white toilet in two days.
> The water Dept. doesn't seem to think much of it, and plays it off as
> sediment stirred up in our old pipes as a result from both
> construction and a water main break (across town and not apart of our
> well for this area).
In my brother's town they used to have old iron pipes, and he
> Our tap water has run slightly yellow for at least 11 days now (most
> likely a couple more than that).
> It smells like iron when you're taking a shower, and will stain a
> white toilet in two days.
> The water Dept. doesn't seem to think much of it, and plays it off as
> sediment stirred up in our old pipes as a result from both
> construction and a water main break (across town and not apart of our
> well for this area).
attributed some of his good aquarium plant growth to it. He was
disappointed when the pipes were renewed.
In my town we used to regularly have darker-colored water. Eventually
it was determined tp be the result of manganese from a certain depth
in the lake. Below the thermocline water chemistry is quite different,
and I think they raised the water intake into warmer strata and that
helped. I sometimes used a big particulate and carbon filter from the
hardware store, fitted into the tank-filling water hose from the
laundry tap.
Anyway they massively upgraded our water supply station and installed
automatically-readable water meters in all homes. Now our water is
crystal-clear and taste/ odourless. It also costs a fortune, and few
people water their lawns any more.
I'm not sure whether I'd worry about water colour, as long as the fish
seem all right.
d.
Kel's Mustang
Sep 1, 2010, 3:07:10 PM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Sep 1, 12:05 am, videoman <video...@ccountry.net> wrote:
>
> I agree with netmax - an RO unit would be a great investment for you.
> You would most likely want to also get a decent supply of aquarium
> water hardeners (supplements that add minerals, etc. to the water)
> instead of cutting the RO water with small amounts of tap water - the
> tap water you have could kill aquatic creatures even in these small
> amounts. I know that it is usually taboo to recommend playing with
> water chemistry (or in this case water compound ness) on this forum
> but I would never trust your tap water and summary = get an RO unit
> and water additives. Straight RO water without minerals will most
> likely kill your aquatic pets so add some minerals and I would suggest
> you do that by buying aquarium products that do that and enzymes, etc.
> I have been watching your posts about your tap water and quite frankly
> if I were you I would either get the RO unit and additives or somehow
> sue your city utility management. I think the RO unit and additives
> would be cheaper honestly and taking out your utility financially
> isn't likely - they've got big money to play with and you don't I
> don't think. Best fortune to you! Good luck all and later!
even worse.
A not too far off town has a nuclear plant that leaked some nasties
into their water supply.
I'll take my liquid rock, rusty water over that. = O
But like I already posted to NetMax, we have a small RO unit. Just not
large enough to do large water changes with it.
Kel's Mustang
Sep 1, 2010, 3:07:48 PM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Sep 1, 7:10 am, denizen <denize...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> In my brother's town they used to have old iron pipes, and he
> attributed some of his good aquarium plant growth to it. He was
> disappointed when the pipes were renewed.
>
> In my town we used to regularly have darker-colored water. Eventually
> it was determined tp be the result of manganese from a certain depth
> in the lake. Below the thermocline water chemistry is quite different,
> and I think they raised the water intake into warmer strata and that
> helped. I sometimes used a big particulate and carbon filter from the
> hardware store, fitted into the tank-filling water hose from the
> laundry tap.
>
> Anyway they massively upgraded our water supply station and installed
> automatically-readable water meters in all homes. Now our water is
> crystal-clear and taste/ odourless. It also costs a fortune, and few
> people water their lawns any more.
>
> I'm not sure whether I'd worry about water colour, as long as the fish
> seem all right.
> d.
Kel's Mustang
Sep 1, 2010, 3:03:35 PM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Aug 31, 1:23 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Water claimed safe for human consumption can easily kill aquatic
> creatures, chloramines are an obvious example. I would buy an RO
> filter.
>
> NetMax
>
cut our tap water.
I can't do the 75g with it's supply. It would take me a week to make
that much water.
However, even my RO unit was messed up! A few weeks ago when the town
replaced a valve in one of the mains down the road, the crap that got
flushed through the pipes was so bad it clogged up my RO membrane and
both carbon ones. They had just been recently replaced too.
Since the ro membrane is $100.00 just for that one cartridge, and then
there's the 2 carbon ones, not that cheap either...and you have to
order the RO membrane (pita), sometimes hubby lags on getting it
working. = /
If it can fill up the coffee pot, he's good.
I, OTH, need it for my fish as well as drinking water.
NetMax
Sep 1, 2010, 4:38:13 PM9/1/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I think it's really 3 separate issues.
If the rust color is iron bacteria,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_bacteria
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/febact.htm
then I suspect the fish are not at risk (unless it gets to an
extreme), so it's cosmetic.
If the rust color is iron in the water
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3549
then this can be filtered out, but again, I don't think the fish are
at risk (unless at extremes).
If the rust color is symptomatic of a municipal supply with water
issues, then you could have many things happening which are hazardous
to fish, and they could be colorless. The most common situation is
when the municipality is replacing/repairing pipes (old age, road
construction or expand the network), and once the pipes are disturbed
or open to atmosphere, they do a super-dose of chlorine or
chloramines. This is colorless, they are not required to notify
residents, and will easily wipe out a tank of fish.
Another common problem is when they have supply problems and use
various sources. The water parameters may fluctuate (from artesian to
well to riverine) which is already stressful enough for the fish, but
the municipality will increase the disinfectant concentration every
time they switch source, because of the standing water in the pipes
leading from the source to the treatment plant.
Another factor is how they harden their water and how close you live
to the treatment plant. Low pH will corrode iron pipes, so a common
method is to add caustic soda to bump the pH up into the 9s. If
you're at the end of the network, so might not even see the effect
(nullified by the pipes leading to your house), and the edges of the
network are typically newer pipes anyways. If you live across the
street from a municipal treatment plant, even the time of day you run
your water tap can have a huge effect on the parameters.
All this to say (in my usual long-winded way ;~) is to know your
enemy. Send some water for lab testing so you can most economically
adress the issue. In the meantime, use lots of heavy-metal
neutralizing chloramine detoxifier. I know you already talk to your
Public Works people, but it doesn't sound like they empathise with
your concerns.
NetMax
If the rust color is iron bacteria,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_bacteria
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/febact.htm
then I suspect the fish are not at risk (unless it gets to an
extreme), so it's cosmetic.
If the rust color is iron in the water
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3549
then this can be filtered out, but again, I don't think the fish are
at risk (unless at extremes).
If the rust color is symptomatic of a municipal supply with water
issues, then you could have many things happening which are hazardous
to fish, and they could be colorless. The most common situation is
when the municipality is replacing/repairing pipes (old age, road
construction or expand the network), and once the pipes are disturbed
or open to atmosphere, they do a super-dose of chlorine or
chloramines. This is colorless, they are not required to notify
residents, and will easily wipe out a tank of fish.
Another common problem is when they have supply problems and use
various sources. The water parameters may fluctuate (from artesian to
well to riverine) which is already stressful enough for the fish, but
the municipality will increase the disinfectant concentration every
time they switch source, because of the standing water in the pipes
leading from the source to the treatment plant.
Another factor is how they harden their water and how close you live
to the treatment plant. Low pH will corrode iron pipes, so a common
method is to add caustic soda to bump the pH up into the 9s. If
you're at the end of the network, so might not even see the effect
(nullified by the pipes leading to your house), and the edges of the
network are typically newer pipes anyways. If you live across the
street from a municipal treatment plant, even the time of day you run
your water tap can have a huge effect on the parameters.
All this to say (in my usual long-winded way ;~) is to know your
enemy. Send some water for lab testing so you can most economically
adress the issue. In the meantime, use lots of heavy-metal
neutralizing chloramine detoxifier. I know you already talk to your
Public Works people, but it doesn't sound like they empathise with
your concerns.
NetMax
Kel's Mustang
Sep 2, 2010, 12:18:23 PM9/2/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Sep 1, 2:38 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's really 3 separate issues.
>
> then I suspect the fish are not at risk (unless it gets to an
> extreme), so it's cosmetic.
Ok thanks...I'll have to go read about this.
> extreme), so it's cosmetic.
>
> If the rust color is iron in the waterhttp://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3549
> then this can be filtered out, but again, I don't think the fish are
> at risk (unless at extremes).
Ok...right now we have the RO unit only running on the carbon filters
> at risk (unless at extremes).
while awaiting for the RO membrane to arrive via postal system.
It's just the general "carbon clean". Hubby said to just keep filling
up my bucket with it, as it would be better than the tap currently
(and he's right).
This morning the guys were flushing the hydrants AGAIN.
At least they're trying to figure out what's the issue.
>
> If the rust color is symptomatic of a municipal supply with water
> issues, then you could have many things happening which are hazardous
> to fish, and they could be colorless. The most common situation is
> when the municipality is replacing/repairing pipes (old age, road
> construction or expand the network), and once the pipes are disturbed
> or open to atmosphere, they do a super-dose of chlorine or
> chloramines. This is colorless, they are not required to notify
> residents, and will easily wipe out a tank of fish.
>
always use a double dose of dechlor on a regular day. When we're
having issues, I tend to use about triple. When we're having issues
like this, I tend to freak out and not do water changes.
I got this way because of how many tanks of fry that have lost
recently due to our lovely water.
> Another common problem is when they have supply problems and use
> various sources. The water parameters may fluctuate (from artesian to
> well to riverine) which is already stressful enough for the fish, but
> the municipality will increase the disinfectant concentration every
> time they switch source, because of the standing water in the pipes
> leading from the source to the treatment plant.
shallow.
They have it pretty much in sections. If you look on a map, parts of
the town are on well 1-2 (us), then another area will have 3, and so
on until well 7.
>
> Another factor is how they harden their water and how close you live
> to the treatment plant. Low pH will corrode iron pipes, so a common
> method is to add caustic soda to bump the pH up into the 9s. If
> you're at the end of the network, so might not even see the effect
> (nullified by the pipes leading to your house), and the edges of the
> network are typically newer pipes anyways. If you live across the
> street from a municipal treatment plant, even the time of day you run
> your water tap can have a huge effect on the parameters.
considered pretty hard water. We were at 32+ grains.
When the EPA said there was too much radium in the water they
installed Ion exchange plant/s.
The town boasted how we'd have clean, softer water from it too.
Our "softer" water is now at 22 (+ or - a degree). Oh yea. So soft I
almost didn't stub my toe in a puddle of it. = /
That little bit of softer water is actually eating away at the rust in
our OLD pipes.
That amount of rust you can't see or smell though. It doesn't stain
the toilet, caulk in the tub, and you most certainly can't see it in a
white cup.
Currently, we have all that going right now and they don't exactly
know why yet.
I got a call from the Dept. Sup. yesterday saying he was out sick for
a week and was looking into what's going on.
Yesterday I saw a bunch of trucks by our nearby chlorine station, and
elsewhere too. This morning more flushings.
>
> All this to say (in my usual long-winded way ;~) is to know your
> enemy. Send some water for lab testing so you can most economically
> adress the issue. In the meantime, use lots of heavy-metal
> neutralizing chloramine detoxifier. I know you already talk to your
> Public Works people, but it doesn't sound like they empathise with
> your concerns.
>
> NetMax
issue keeps changing.
I still think we have some sort of protozoa in it.
My fish glance off plants, etc but you cannot see anything on them.
I've treated the tank in the past, but as soon as another water change
is done they'll start glancing off things right about the time for
another water change.
From the research I've done here, the cysts of protozoans can survive
the water treatments. Yea.
A month back we got another generic letter from the EPA stating (yet
again) that some of our wells are "at risk for contamination".
The contamination list included the normal bacterias, farming
chemicals, protozoans like giardia, etc., and of course the usual
suspects from our coal burning power plant ( not an updated cleaner
burning one, but one of the worst offenders which buys "credits" from
cleaner plants so that they can keep on polluting at that rate).
You may even remember me telling about the time they shut our well
down, used another little used one while they did repairs. Well all of
a sudden everybody's tanks were full of Cyanobacteria!
I tried to explain this to the guy in charge, but he didn't know what
that was. He kept telling me that the coliform bacteria levels are all
fine.
::bangs head on wall::
What gets me is why am I the only one figuring this stuff out. I have
no college degree. I have no training in water sanitation.
It's just little ole me, and some fish tanks.
*FYI....Did ya know that humans can have a protozoan infection in
their intestines that can originate from fish or their water (lake-
pond-fish tank). It kind of hangs out and can cause all sorts of fun
issues.
Issues like the runs, gurgling noises in your gut, and loss of hair
(scalp) and more.
The ones like Giardia are pretty obvious. However, sometimes instead
of getting real sick, you might just get loud gurgling in your
intestines after eating, or you almost go bald.
There are Doctors out there that don't even know this, yet a
hairdresser will. Well, old school ones. I don't know if they teach
them that at beauty school these days, but they did in the past. My
Mom's a hairdresser and even she knew it.
I found the connection just trying to figure out what was attacking my
fish....and so on.
Then that generic EPA letter came telling us that out wells are at
risk for protozoans too.
I swear, the more I know and learn, the more ignorant I wish I was.
What do ya think our water dept. would think if I went in and told
them I think we have protozoans in our water that are making my fish
sick, and can potentially make us sick too???
They'd laugh their tushes off at me thinking I was wacko.
NetMax
Sep 2, 2010, 12:57:55 PM9/2/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Instead of messing with water parameters, I always recommend hobbyists
go with the water they have.
In your case, have you thought about breeding Bearded Dragons, or
perhaps Cockatiels ;~)
NetMax
On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, "Kel's Mustang" <KellsBlueMust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2:38 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think it's really 3 separate issues.
>
> > If the rust color is iron bacteria,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_bacteriahttp://www.dnr.state.wi.us/...
go with the water they have.
In your case, have you thought about breeding Bearded Dragons, or
perhaps Cockatiels ;~)
NetMax
On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, "Kel's Mustang" <KellsBlueMust...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2:38 pm, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think it's really 3 separate issues.
>
Altum
Sep 3, 2010, 2:05:02 PM9/3/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
Urk. I think I'd be drinking bottled water! The fish are maybe the
least of your worries. :-(
--Altum
least of your worries. :-(
--Altum
Kel's Mustang
Sep 4, 2010, 10:19:57 AM9/4/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Sep 2, 10:57 am, NetMax <computeral...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Instead of messing with water parameters, I always recommend hobbyists
> go with the water they have.
>
> In your case, have you thought about breeding Bearded Dragons, or
> perhaps Cockatiels ;~)
>
> NetMax
>
Hubby tells me a Rock Garden would lovely in the big tank. ; )~
Kel's Mustang
Sep 4, 2010, 10:21:05 AM9/4/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
I don't even like giving it my dog on a good day. Times like these she
gets the good stuff.
denizen
Sep 15, 2010, 9:54:48 PM9/15/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
On Sep 1, 3:07 pm, "Kel's Mustang" <KellsBlueMust...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Den.
Heh heh, now I've got cloudy yellowish-orange tapwater, with no
excessive chlorine smell. They're installing new water mains in a
nearby, adjoining street so that's likely the cause. The water does
not taste all that good for tea, and the cats have it in their water
bowls - ugh.
I had to move two smaller aquariums around the house today and used
make-up water from the main aquarium, adding 10% rusty water to each
of the 3 aquariums. Hope the water gets better soon.
Guess I'll get bottled water for drinking & the cats and take white
laundry to a laundromat.
d.
Kel's Mustang
Sep 16, 2010, 10:40:22 AM9/16/10
to The Freshwater Aquarium
However, I don't even want to bother our public works, as we have a
whole new problem in our town (not with the water...yet).
Email me if curious.
As for laundry...your town should supply you with a laundry product
for removal of iron stains.
Our town does, however, you need to call and ask them for it.
The guy that came out to our house when I first reported the yellow /
iron smelling water gave me a container of it.
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