How to date speakers (or tell if they are original)

[Scott Whigham]

I am thinking of picking up a '65 Twin and it has speakers in it that
don't match the "charts" - JBL D120Fs. These are supposedly great
sounding but (a) I'd like to know if they are original, and (b) how to
date them by serial. Any ideas?

Thanks!

[kevin thomson]

Hi Scott, It is kind of rare to find factory installed JBL 120F's in a twin but not unheard of. Supposedly, if they are original to that amp, they would have an ink stamp on them that matches the stamp on the tube chart inside the cabinet....or a stamp that would be a code like AA2565...25th week of 1965. Unfortunately these stamps are not always on the speakers and are sometimes on the cabinet, or on the inside or outside of the chassis. Another clue on a later 60's speaker might be a tiny F punched into the foil label.

Lastly, are the frames gray or orange? I believe they went orange in the 70's. Not entirely sure of that factoid. 

In the end, only your ears matter. JBL's are universally considered "hi-fi".....very clean, good bass but perhaps a bit harsh on the treble side...brittle maybe? I had a factory JBL equipped twin for a very short time. It was a late 68 production with gray framed JBL D120F's in it and the factory JBL badge on the grille cloth. Absolutely mint. I sold it because, for me, it did not sound good. It was a kind of sterile amp. For some sounds it was a perfect, like stepping back through time to a Memphis recording studio. Clean, clean clean. Good with a tele for country. If you prefer your sound a bit dirtier, or perhaps, looser, the premium price of a JBL equipped black twin might not be worth it.

I hope this helps. Have a nice day.....KT

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[Scott Whigham]

Thank you – great response and much appreciated!

 

This Twin does not have a stamp on the tube chart that would match the pattern you listed. There are two stamps on the tube chart: Production “58” and “PG” stamped near the bottom right. Unfortunately I only have pics of the amp to go on for a few more days. The pics I have are, however, very high resolution and cover almost all of the speakers + cab in the back. The speakers and do NOT show an “F” imprinted on the foil label of the speakers. I have the serial numbers on the speakers and, from what I’ve been able to gather, they look to be from around the same time as the amp (1965). Unfortunately the pics do not really include the cone (so I can’t see any stamp on the cone).

 

The frames are gray with yellow JBL on the driver. Serials are 117xx and 120xx (where “xx” is a number). They say “signature speaker” across the top (but not “Jim Lansing signature speaker” like the ‘61s apparently).

 

And I’m with you on the “ears” bit – I won’t hesitate swapping these out if they aren’t what I want. I’ll just carefully pack them up and, if I ever sell it, they’ll go with it and make it a premium cost J I have a pair of Tone Tubbies in my 73 Twin that are amazing – maybe they’ll be great in a ’65 too. I hope to find out!

 

I appreciate your time on this, Kevin – thank you for any insights!

 

Scott

[kevin thomson]

Scott, No sweat. The PG on the chart indicates an amp built in July of 1966. I cannot find any info on JBL serial numbers....only the inkstamps Fender would have put on the speaker frame, or on the chassis or cabinet.

have fun....kt

PS: I even checked the JBL heritage site....good stuff there but no serials

[Scott Whigham]

Awesome - thanks for the info. I had read about the dating part by the "PG" code but I didn't understand it, I guess. The serial number on the amp dates to 1965 according to the various sites. Does that then mean this is a 1966 or that the amp is not original to the chassis?

And I found a JBL speaker serial registry and cross-referenced codes with other pics to sort of get an idea: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=193005&postcount=511. Nothing concrete though!

Scott Whigham
LearnItFirst.com
http://www.learnitfirst.com/

[kevin thomson]

It is highly likely the chassis was made in '65 and the amp assembled in '66....however, with it being JULY of '66, this scenario becomes a bit less likely. Ask the seller if there is a PG inkstamped somewhere inside or outside the chassis...Ask the seller for all the #'s off the transformers...IE: they should all be 606-6xx....or 606-6-xx...the X's represent the week of the year. They should all be starting with that 6 for 1966 after the 606 which stands for Schumacher. Also, does it say Fender Electric Instruments or Fender musical Instruments under the Twin Reverb Amp logo...post 1966 it would say "Musical" not "Electric".

Info on dating by serial number seems a bit hazy and inconclusive, or, at the very lest incomplete. Grag Gagliano is making heroic progress on this. 

Good luck.....KT

[Scott Whigham]

I ended up not buying it. I found another ’65 that is three serial numbers away from the one I was looking at and the date stamp showed September ’65. Given the serial numbers, that makes sense – the chassis was probably built in Aug/Sep 65 and then put into the cab immediately. I have a tough time believing that Fender “lost” this chassis for almost a year. And it says “Fender Musical Instruments” on the stamp although, to be fair, I’ve seen Greg G’s saying that this was put in place in early-to-middle ’65 inconsistently but in ’66 consistently.

 

In the end I thought it was too hazy (as you put it) and, since he wanted a premium price for a ’65, I bailed.

 

Thanks for your help!

[kevin thomson]

you got it! I think the amp you passed on was a '66. Seller possibly mis-informed.

[Scott Whigham]

It gets more interesting…

 

Talked to seller originally and he said he purchased two 1965 amps at the same time from same buyer in 2000ish. I presented my “findings” to him and he sent back pics of the other amp – it has the right date stamp (along with “Fender Electric Instrument Co” on tube chart) and ’65 number. However, the true ’65 cab has a 12” JBL D120F along with a 15” JBL D130F.

 

I think I know the answer to this question but I’ll pose it here for verification: is there any way that the 15” speaker is original (i.e. a custom order)?

 

Thanks!

[kevin thomson]

I seriously doubt it. Probably sounds huge and weighs a ton. I'd pass that one by Gagliano. I think there is a contact email for him on his site....not entirely sure it is current, but it is worth a try. Interesting stuff. Attach some pics, I'd love to see it......kt