Treating a split for mites

[Yoko K]

I just split my hive 1.5 weeks ago and I'm seeing queen cells in it now. But I'm also seeing mites. What timing do you suggest I treat the hive for mites? I'm worried about treating it now and jeopardizing the health of the potential queen(s).

Yoko

[Mimi]

I never treat during reQueening process and wait until Queen is laying before treating.  ReQueening in itself gives hive a brood break, especially if you take away any capped brood after Queen is laying.  Also during Spring build up most hives can handle a little more mite.  

Mimi 

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On Mar 3, 2025, at 5:38 PM, Yoko K <yo...@umamimart.com> wrote:

I just split my hive 1.5 weeks ago and I'm seeing queen cells in it now. But I'm also seeing mites. What timing do you suggest I treat the hive for mites? I'm worried about treating it now and jeopardizing the health of the potential queen(s).

Yoko

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[gmau...@earthlink.net]

I'm with Mimi on not treating when requeening... BUT a lot of very experienced beekeepers like to treat during brood break since they don't have to worry about brood mites.  I should be fine to drop in a half or full Oxalic Acid sponge and go after the phoretic mites while you have a chance.

[Maryly Snow]

I don’t understand, per Mimi’s email, why you would remove capped brood during requeening.

Maryly

[Mimi]

“Typically one-third of the mite population resides on adult bees and two-thirds are in capped brood.” True brood break is 3 weeks without capped brood.  ReQueening usually gives you 1-2 weeks without capped brood, take away the few remaining capped brood once new Queen is laying and you’ll get true brood break. You’ll find that mite rates will drastically decline with true Brood Break and no need for chemicals. Granted hive has to be healthy with enough nurse bees to tend to Queen and eggs.  

Mimi 

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On Mar 4, 2025, at 11:58 AM, Maryly Snow <mar...@snowstudios.com> wrote:

I don’t understand, per Mimi’s email, why you would remove capped brood during requeening.

Maryly

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[Maryly Snow]

[gmau...@earthlink.net]

Maryly,

You know what.... I've just accepted the "broodlessness" axiom and hadn't really taken the time to think it through.  Thank you for that.

1)  In a supercedure, there is often a period where both the queen and her daughter(s) are laying.  In that situation, there is little (if any) time that the colony is broodless.  

2)  In a swarm situation,  the queen will typically reduce or stop laying a few (3 or 4?) days before she swarms.  Swarming typically happens the day of or the day after queen cells are capped.  It takes about 25 days from when a queen cell is capped for a queen to pupate, emerge, sexually mature, take her mating flights, and begin laying.  If we say that the queen swarms (AKA... stops laying) when the first queen cell is capped and consider that it takes 21 to 24 days for all the brood to emerge, then the totally broodless period for the hive that a queen has swarmed from is minimal.  In a swarm, the queen starts laying in 2 or 3 days and it's about 10 days before you see any capped brood.

This makes my brain hurt so I'm hoping others will chime in here on this, but I think the term "broodless" may be being misused.  The key here may be in the AMOUNT of brood.  In a swarm situation, there is a period of significantly less brood and this translates to less places for the mites to reproduce since they do so in capped brood.

[gmau...@earthlink.net]

By removing early capped brood, Mimi is extending the period without capped brood which is where mites procreate.

Varroa Sensitive Hygiene (VSH) has been discussed in the past two LBI meetings.  One of the characteristics of VSH colonies is the decapping and removal of mite affected larva which kills the mite progeny and forces the foundress mite to find another cell to infect.  She can do that about four times before she becomes infertile.

Mimi's idea of decapping the early brood is actually kind of brilliant.

[Mimi]

1) “one-third of the mite population resides on adult bees and two-thirds are in capped brood.”  Inside capped brood is where mites procreate.

2) Brood Break is 3 weeks without capped brood to disrupt the mite reproductive cycle.  Older mites die out and young mite maggots have no where to develop, they die.  

3) ReQueening process gives you 2-3 weeks without eggs or no new upcoming capped brood. (That’s why I don’t freak out when I can’t find Queen or eggs or young larvae).  By uncapping remaining capped brood, eggs laid by older Queen once new Queen starts laying, it gives you a total of 3-4 weeks without capped brood; thus you’ve done a brood break. 

4) You’ll find that mite rates will drastically decline with Brood Break and there’s no need for chemicals.  It’s a natural form of mite treatment.  

Mimi 

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On Mar 4, 2025, at 10:53 PM, Maryly Snow <mar...@snowstudios.com> wrote:



I don’t understand, per Mimi’s email, why you would remove capped brood during requeening.

Maryly

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[Mikiko Murakami]

Hi, Yoko!
I'm curious to hear how your bees are doing? I recently made a walkaway split (now in 2 separate deep boxes) but my colonies have mites. The mated queen in one of the boxes has started laying eggs. (I have to check the other one today).  Did you decide not to treat? I'm contemplating using oxalic acid.

Beekeepers (Oakland):
Does anyone have any extra oxalic acid sponges to spare? I am willing to pay for your materials and time in making them. I need enough for two separate deep (single) boxes.

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[Paula Breen]

Hi Mikkiko, 

If you are using oxalic on a split and you have no capped brood yet, you might consider an OA dribble it is cheap & easy to make and apply. It would be much faster and more effective than towels at lowering your mite counts, but only of the brood isn't capped. If the brood is capped you won't get the majority or the mites. Also if your mite counts are high the towels may not be effective at all.  

Obviously you would have to reduce the recipe quite a bit! 

Good luck!

This is from Randy's site but might be outdated. I suggest checking Scientificbeekeeping.com to see if these are updates. 

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[Mimi]

Urban Farm Oasis, formerly Biofuel Oasis should sell OA strips (at least they used to).  Call them to confirm:  https://urbanfarmoasis.org/

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On Mar 10, 2025, at 11:51 AM, Mikiko Murakami <ocean...@gmail.com> wrote:



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