Loading knowledge constraints from text

[Scott]

I can't seem to get the GUI to load knowledge constraints from text.  If on a knowledge node I go to the text tab and paste in text, I can hit "Test" and it will say "Looks good.", but if I hit "Load" and then "Save" the knowledge isn't really saved.  Is there some other non-intuitive step I'm missing?

[Joseph Ramsey]

Someone else reported this issue and I fixed it for him. Are you using
the latest version of Tetrad?

Joe

--
Joseph D. Ramsey
Special Faculty and Director of Research Computing
Department of Philosophy
135 Baker Hall
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213

jsph....@gmail.com
Office: (412) 268-8063
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jdramsey

[Bill Raynor]

Hello Joe,

With 4.3.10.6 I can cut and paste into the text box in the knowledge module and then load it and save it.

I haven't run into the problem with the file being too long as has been reported elsewhere on this forum

 

See you tomorrow at the Chicago tutorial,

 

Bill

[Joseph Ramsey]

Thanks, Bill! See you there!

Joe

[Scott]

Sorry it took me so long to test the fix...

I updated to the latest version (i was one version behind), and you are right, the "Tiers and Edges" knowledge node now loads the text box.

I did quite a bit of testing on it, and I think there's something a little weird when you load a text file of constraints...

Once you load a text file of constraints, the variable list no longer shows up in the "Other Groups" tab, so you can no longer use that tab in the GUI (although you can still use other tabs).  The unused variables also don't show up in the "tiers" tab, so you can only use that tab to shuffle around variables that were already in a tier.  

Because I was curious, I tested quite a few knowledge nodes seeing what other weird behavior I could generate.  Some of these might be known behavior... I was just trying to be thorough in testing.  Here are a few:  

If you "Destroy Model" in a knowledge node, it doesn't seem to do anything.  You have to delete the node and start fresh or tie it to a new data set to start over.  That's usually not really a big deal, of course.  

If you change the variables in the data node the feeds the knowledge node, the knowledge node throws an error.  For example, I replaced the data in a data node with an identical data set minus a single variable, and then the knowledge node complains something like "Nodes must not be null" and after the error message the knowledge node doesn't open.  This error happens even if the variable didn't appear in any constraints.  Again, this doesn't seem like a big deal... if you delete the variable instead of loading a new text file and replacing the data it causes a refresh of the knowledge node, and the error message seems appropriate.  

You can also generate errors by setting constraints in the "Other Groups" tab that are implied by the knowledge tiers, or vice versa. For example, if you have a constraint set in the "Other Groups" tab, then you change the order around in the the knowledge tiers so that constraint is implied by both the one in the "Other Groups" tab and the "Tiers" tab and it doesn't throw an error when you save the node, but it throws an error when you try to re-open the node that the edge is already in the model, and since the knowledge node won't re-open, you can't fix it.  If at this point you "Destroy Model" you then again get the "Nodes must not be null" error.  This could be a bit more problematic than the other two errors, because without warning, you wouldn't be able to open up your knowledge node and see what constraints you had set.  Just as a note, I wasn't able to generate the same error using the text tab.  If I try to add a constraint to the forbidden section that is implied by the tiers, it loads it without an error, and then magically when you re-open, the constraint in the forbidden section has disappeared... thus no issue.

Anyway, thanks for fixing the text load button.  Very helpful.  Let's me make a backup of my constraints into a text file, and rebuild the knowledge node using that if there is an error.

On another note, while running my tests, I also discovered a weirdness with another node.  If you do a large graph into the estimator node, it does this thing where it keeps expanding and expanding the window, which doesn't stop it from estimating, but it does keep you from being able to scroll down to the bottom right corner and click "Re-estimate"

BTW, is this the best place to report GUI bugs/features like this?  If they are supposed to go somewhere else, I'm glad to put them there... it seems like a good place though so anyone can try and replicate the bugs and confirm.

Onward and upward,

Scott

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:21:23 AM UTC-7, Joe wrote:

Someone else reported this issue and I fixed it for him. Are you using
the latest version of Tetrad?

Joe

[Scott]

Actually a clarification.  The error with loading the text constraints into the knowledge node is more subtle than I thought.  It only occurs if the knowledge node is still connected to the input data node, but not if after creating the knowledge node you have disconnected it from the data node.

[Scott]

One more note.  I didn't notice it until Bill mentioned that he hadn't run into it but had heard of the problem, but after reading Bill's post I happened to have a knowledge node with a lot of text and suddenly I understood what he was talking about.  If you have too many lines of text in the constraint box you can't reach the Load button, as it scrolls off the screen with the text.  On a 1200 x 800 monitor it takes about 40 lines of text before you start to see the button move.

[Clark Glymour]

Scott,

Thanks for this. Some of those bugs we knew about, some we did not. It's a real help
to have careful users. Now if only we had more time to fix things...

Clark Glymour

>> <scottporterconsulting<scottporte...@gmail.com>>

[Scott]

It seems to me that this has been forgotten since it has been two years...

As reported before, if you paste in a large amount of text in the text tab of the Knowledge node, the test and load buttons scroll out of reach, so you can't load the text.

It would be great if this could be added to the list of fixes.

This makes the GUI useless for large numbers of constraints...

I happened to be planning around with knowledge nodes again and noticed this is still not fixed.

[Sacha la Bastide]

Hi!

Running into the same problems here (uploading loads of background knowledge in text-form and then not being able to save this :-( ).

As I am eager to get to running the searches, I really hope it can be fixed someho.
That would be of great help! (drawing the arrows by hand in the knowledge-menu is not a realistic alternative for my large dataset with lots and lots of constraints, alas...)

Thanks in advance,

Kind regards,
Sacha la Bastide



Op donderdag 9 oktober 2014 02:34:16 UTC+2 schreef Scott:

[Joseph Ramsey]

I will try to get to this soon. Thanks for the input!

Joe

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Joseph D. Ramsey
Special Faculty and Director of Research Computing
Department of Philosophy

143 Baker Hall

[Joseph Ramsey]

I am thinking of just getting rid of the text box in the knowledge editor and just replacing it with a more usual load/save from file. I think that would solve almost all of the problems that were reported. Any comments?

Joe

[cg...@andrew.cmu.edu]

None.

[Scott Porter]

I think that would work fine, especially if like the load data node you have a way to report any loading errors to the user.

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[Joseph Ramsey]

Scott (and anyone else watching),

Here's my idea of a fix. If no bad comments I'll put it up on the Tetrad main page. Basically I did what i said I'd do, got rid of the text pane in the knowledge editor and added load/save menu items.

Here:

tetrad-5.1.0-7.jnlp

Joe

[Scott Porter]

I took one pass through.  I managed to successfully save and load a constraint file.

I also changed one of the node names to a non existing variable and it reported "node must not be null".  Not the most informative error reporting, but not too bad.  I'll go through my list of previous bad behaviors exhibited by knowledge nodes and see if there are any this approach doesn't fix.

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Ramsey]

Thanks, Scott!

Joe