Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
lylayer
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "J. K. Mohana Rao" <jkmrao@y...>
wrote:
> there are many who
> have been left out, even among the more well
> known western poets. The names of Tolstoy and
> Hardy readily come to one's mind.
These are writers, who set standards for literary prizes. 'Res ipsa
Loquitor' The thing speaks for itself.
Do people even notice they did not get nobel prize?. Their literature
does not have to be forced on any body. lovers of books go find them.
On the other hand there will be several Nobel laureates who will
never be popular.
Thomas Hardy is such a hardy perennial. Who would not want to go to
the wessex country side he created in his novels? Boy! what sturdy
male characters he created! I am nuts about his novels, Mayor of
Casterbridge, Far from madding crowd, the return of native...
I am not so familiar with his poetry, which i hear is quite
superior.
>
> Coming to the Telugu scene, people like
> VSN and SriSri stand out-
VSN is such prolific, virile and stoic writer. He is incredible. Now
that you mentioned Hardy - may be in the profuseness, character
development, novel settings etc they are comparable.
Sri Sri is nowhere near Viswanadha. What Oscar Wlide says about
women :-) - 'women are like shallow brooks. They make pleasant
sounds, but they have no deapth.' is applicable to SriSri. He just
put some nice sounding words together and made some noise. Sounds
'full of fury, means nothing.'
But what do I know! I am a woman and a lay person in literary
science.:-)
Regards
lyla.
P.S: Thanks for the Annamaya Kirtana, you took the trouble to write
out completely and explain. It is wonderful. ?Is it the picturization
more or less of the same handsome guy - చమ్దన చర్చిత నీల
కళేబర పీతవసన వనమాలీ
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
J. K. Mohana Rao
Hi!
I am following with interest the discussion on
the disappointment why there is no Telugu Nobel.
First of all, while almost all the Nobel
awardees deserved to win, there are many who
have been left out, even among the more well
known western poets. The names of Tolstoy and
Hardy readily come to one's mind. Tagore
was a rare exception. If one cares to read
the preface for the English gItAMjali written
by Yeats (I believe), it is clear Yeats took upon
himself in giving well deserved publicity to
this book. It is worth noting that the same
year Saratchandra too was nominated for the
Nobel prize for his శేషప్రశ్న. I personally
feel while Sarat deserves an award, it is not
for this book. Any way, good publicity and
translated editions are quite necessary in
spreading the gospel.
Coming to the Telugu scene, people like
VSN and SriSri stand out- one for his
prodigious original contributions and the
other for defining the language and its poetry
through a new prosody and a movement.
Unfortunately, SriSri had to be satisfied
with Soviet Land awards because of his
leanings.
As I mentioned earlier, only two (VSN and CNR,
are there any I missed?) have been awarded the
Indian Nobel j~nAnpITh award. There are seven
in Kannada and four or so in Malayalam. While
awards are not indicative of the vibrancy of
the literary traditions of a people, they
certainly encourage others and create a sort
of dynamism. The Kannada awardees themselves
form an interesting contrast in the sense that
only one or two may be called a die-hard
Kannadiga. For one or two, it is not even
their mother tongue.
Also, there seems to be more interest among
the people towards short stories and novels.
Poetry and essays seem to be avoided (like
plague)!
Are the teachers and others in schools and
colleges encouraging their wards towards
the appreciation of literature and the
tradion of literary criticism? To this day,
my interest in literature has been kindled
by two people- Sri Vedam vEMkaTa kRshNa
Sarma (author of kuMdamAla, SatakavA~mmaya
sarvasvamu and tEnesOnalu) and Morram
Chandrasekhara Reddy (SV Arts College).
The first inculcated in me an appreciation
for classical literature and the second an
appreciation towards the newer forms. It is
a different fact that I never became anything.
When people send their children to English
mediums schools with an eye on their future
(I am not saying this is wrong or right) and
there is confusion as to which medium
should be used in education as well as which
type of language must be used in books
(SishTa, vyAvahArika or mAMDalika, etc.),
there is not going to be a rosy future for
a Telugu writer or for that matter an
Indian writer to win the coveted award.
I'll be very glad to be proved wrong!
Regards! - mOhana
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
Ramarao Kanneganti
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
I have seen the eternal footman hold my coat and snicker.
At times, what are called the greatest of Telugu works look
like pretentious sentimental junk. At times they exercise
great power over me, remind me that I am a telugu, teach me
humility. It is the curse being born a telugu.
That is a strong statement: the curse. Yes -- otherwise
logical, thinking mind refuses to function when it comes to
telugu issues. We sit though mind numbing garbage only
because they remind us of a smell, a smile, a face, a place,
a story that is long buried in the cranium. We are the
slaves of our memories.
We all know that -- we all know that when a poet says
"aandhramaa, bhaagya saandramaa", he is being a
bhatraaju. Yet, we forgive him; we fail to hold it to the
test of truth. When we sing "dESa bhaashalandu telugu
lessa", we don't even get a sneaking suspecion that
we may be wrong.
Strange as it may seem, we find poetry even in the mundane
words of the language. The odd jumble of words trigger
associations. Heck, we even look for and find poetry in
dubbed songs.
Yes, it is a curse. There is no escape. Even if you could
alter your history, there is no guarantee that you will not
land into something equal (curse of being a Tamil, English,
German) or worse (having no curse)!
A friend of mine asked me, "aren't you proud of being born a
Telugu"? Being proud of an accident of birth? హథ
విధీ! But, is there something I would miss if I were born
elsewhere?
Perhaps nothing. There is equally great literature all
over. There is no unique Telugu genius that transcends time
and space. [I think of Thomas Mann, Shakespere, Dostovesky
here]. There is no unique Telugu intellect that captures the
times and mores so well that they offer a deep perspective.
[I think of Charles Dickens, Jane Austen here].
As I said before, I have seen the moment of greatness
flicker. All too briefly, but I did. But then, is it my
imagination?
Then, without denigrading VSN (I presume it is Viswanatha,
am I mistaken?), I say that while he is a capable writer, he
is a poor thinker. I don't mind the long tedious
passages. [You could have guessed from Mann fixation]. After
having read all of his పురాణ వైర గ్రంధ మాల, I came
to the conclusion that despite good characterization,
consistent style, his writing lacks focus in narration, his
detours are meandering without interesting, and his logic is
simplistic without being compelling. That is is one of our
greatest story tellers is indeed a telling status of Telugu
literature. Still, his "vEyi paDagalu" is one of the best we
have in a novel spanning generations.
If I were not Telugu, and have the same literary tastes,
perhaps the only author in Telugu I would read is KoKu. His
output is not uniformly good. But, when it is good, it makes
you see his world much clearly. In translations too, I am sure,
that would survive.
--rama
PS: A whole bunch of this mail is a copy of my old posts from 1997.
I am too lazy to think of new things to say :-).
PPS: I must quote this one by Thomas Mann that cracks me up
whenever I read it. I hope that Jampala does not object: "We
shall tell it at length, thoroughly, in detail, for when did
a narrative seem too long or too short by reason of the
actual time or space it took up? We do not fear being called
meticulous, inclining as we do to the view that only the
exhaustive can be truly interesting."
----- Original Message -----
From: "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...>
To: <racch...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
>
> VSN is such prolific, virile and stoic writer. He is incredible. Now
> that you mentioned Hardy - may be in the profuseness, character
> development, novel settings etc they are comparable.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> A few posts back Viplav asked for my Sri Sri books. Now you, Ari
garu
> you want to have Sri Sri all for yourself . Not so fast gentlemen.
> Not so fast. What are you gentle men? Modern Robin Hoods? :-)
I for one can speak with conviction that I am not. If thats an
answer, here is a clarification as well. I didn't want it, I merely
suggested if it is not your cup of tea someone else might benefit
from it; it is afterall a book, how destructive can it be?
I gave away my mahaprasthanam long ago, I should admit, I sold it to
the corner shop who sold eggs and eggs only. Never got a single
page back wrapped with eggs though. I do not know if it was of some
use for him.
>
> I respond to Sri Sri's poetry.
>
I thought you did. I can not think of any other more important
purpose than that for any text.
I didn't think Sri Ari was right. The text mahaaprasthaanaM is not
written for him at all. It is written for you, Ms. Lyla. Read it
again.
Someone once told me one way you stay young longer is to have kids
late. He was not aware of mahaaprasthaanaM, I thought at the time.
You want to stay young, don't you?
rgds,
-viplav-
From rama@k... Sat Oct 16 11:53:17 2004
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From: "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
Subject: Story of a writer
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[Summary/Keywords: Story, non-factual, is not a
followup to one post.]
He came to the city only recently. He was a country boy,
already popular in his village as a talented
writer. But, until a while back, he never dared to
think that he could make it his profession.
One of his friends was visiting from the city. The
friend told him of the extra-ordinary diversity in the
city. They have so many playhouses, so many places
where writers gather and discuss their works, and so
many people who could appreciate the arts. Why, in the
village, at most you may get ten people who understand
your fine work; but in the city, you would meet
hundreds in each street.
He came to the city with all his possessions -- a few
of his works, painstakingly handwritten, and some
personal items. Thankfully, the friend offered him a
place to stay.
In the evening, he went to the city center, where
people talked of the great books. He was clearly awed
by their intellect; they knew the poems; they
understood the rhythms; they dissected the
meanings. They mastered the masters of literature.
He ventured to read some of his poems one evening. It
was a disaster. The meter was OK, they all felt. But,
he had no business of changing the stories,
embellishing the content -- they all said. You cannot
treat our ancient books -- Ramayana, Bharata -- in that
fashion. You are distorting the sacred, they said.
Worse still, his attempt at retelling the stories
offended the higher ups. They thought that his work was
pale. He is changing the history, they charged. It is
quite apparent that the new writer did not respect the
intellect and genius of the earlier writers. They
thought him arrogant, rebel, and a hack.
He was devastated. In his heart of hearts, he felt that
he was a good writer; at times, he felt like a great
writer. As any writer, he had his moments of self
doubt, which grew bigger after his debacle at the
poetry reading. Am I being delusional? he questioned
himself. May be I should not have written such radical
reinterpretations. May be I am going against the truth,
just for sensationalism. I thought I was attempting to
capture new sensibilities in acceptable forms.
His friend was still a believer. He introduced him to a
band of drama artists, sort of off-off-broadway
production. They wanted to try new plays. They even
imported several drama setting techniques from the
west, much to the chagrin of the leading theaters.
He quickly adapted on his writings to a play. He wanted
to answer his critiques with an introduction. He
adapted a technique where the director would come onto
the stage and give an introduction as a part of the
drama. He penned the following poem:
పురాణ మిత్యేవ న సాధు సర్వం
న చాపి కావ్యం నవమిత్య వద్యం
సంతః పరీక్షాన్యతరత్ భజంతే
మూఢః పర ప్రత్యయనేయ బుద్ధిః
That year (perhaps 390 AD), Kalidasa's play entered the
top of the charts. He became the patron poet of rebel
writers.
--
Ramarao Kanneganti
http://www.kanneganti.com/social
PS: The meaning of the poem is this.
All that is old is not great
All that is new is not bad
The wise examine before praising
The foolish blindly follow others.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
ari_sitaramayya
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> > పతితులార, భ్రష్టులార, బాధాసర్ప దష్టులార.
> దీనులార హీనులార.
> దగాపడిన తమ్ములార.
> ఏడవకండేడవకమ్డి.
>
> If some one says those things to me and make me feel like a useless
> bum and then proceed to wipe my tears, God be my witness I will slap
> him.
Lyla garu, no piece of literature is ever written for everybody. A
writer writes with a particular worldview and the reader responds to
it because of his/her own worldview. Now, for hundreds of years,
poetry was written to propogate religion. For another 2 or 3 hundred
years it was written in praise of kings and queens. Nobody ever wrote
about me until the 20th century. Finally we had SriSri. Go ahead and
slap him if you are offended. But he wasn't addressing you, you were
mistaken, it was me he was talking to.
Regards,
Ari Sitaramayya.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
vcjampala
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> Listen to this:
>
> మీ కోసం కలం పట్టి.
>
> జగన్నాధుని రధ చక్రాల్
> భూమార్గం పట్టీస్తాను
> భూకంపం పుట్టీస్తాను
>
> Have you seen that chariot? That is what I call grand talk. No real
> work. Words 'Full of Fury signifying nothing'
...కృష్ణశాస్త్రి పద్యాలు చదివి, అర్థం విడదీసి, "ఏదీ గొప్పతనం చూపమంటే చూపలెకపోయినాను పూర్వం. శ్రీశ్రీ అగ్గిపుల్లలోనూ, కుక్కపిల్లలోనూ కవిత్వం చూపమంటే చూపలేను ఈనాడూ.
...
"ఏమిటి వంతెన మీద నుంచుని చూస్తున్నావు?"
"సంధ్య కేసి."
"ఎవరు ఆమె?"
అంటే ఏం మాట్లాడగలిగాను?
(excerpted from చెలం, 17-7-40)
Regards -- V. Chowdary Jampala
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
wrote:
>
> Huh? How does beauty of sunset has anything to with artistic taste
> of people? By your token since the sunset has the same beauty, the
> artistic tastes of people, even before there were people, were the
> same.
Huh? Where is the beauty of sunset if not in the tastes of people?
Is it the chemical composition of sun and the sky singing the beauty?
Did I or anyone said that sunset has _same_ beauty? Is beauty
something that is is ever the same?
> And, Ramanujan? Trained eye? It is called many things, but trained
> it is not. If any it is considered an intuitive eye, perhaps.
This is semantic hair-splitting. But I concede your point, even
though personally I believe even intution is associated with helluva
lot of exertion (is that training?), which by no means is
necessarily physical.
> What touches human sensitivities and evokes an image is not
> constrained by numbers -- how does this statement support or
> contradict what I said earlier. It is a nonsequitar. Apropos
> nothing.
Please read again. It contradicts your assertion that tastes decline
with increase in readers. Furthermore, who discovered the proof
of declining tastes with increase in readers- any references?
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From lylayfl@a... Wed Oct 20 15:39:05 2004
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From: "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...>
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Subject: Re: అశ్వధాటి - 3
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--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "J. K. Mohana Rao" <jkmrao@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> అశ్వధాటి నడక గల సారంగయొక్క ప్రతి పాదమును
> మూడు చిన్న పాదములుగా విభజించవచ్చును.
>
I find this interesting. Is అశ్వధాతి a horse walk, trot, canter
or a gallop? which movement is it more close to?
Does the composition " Bolero" by Maurice Ravel have any similarity
to అశ్వధాటి ?
> సారంగ
>
It is quite beautiful. All different meanings of this word are also
beautiful.
I like to try writing one. please check if it sounds right.
కోయిలమ్మ కూతలా
క్రిష్న శాస్త్రి గీతిలా
గలమెత్తీ పాట పాడరా
కిన్నెరసాని నడకలా
విశ్వనాథ పలుకులా
ఉప్పొంగీ ఊగిపోవరా
Does the song below have similar beat? Is this సారంగ ? I love
this song. Do you remember the whole song?
ఎయ్రా ఏసెయ్ర గడా
తొయ్రా తోసెయర పడవ
గోదారీ మేట ఏసెరా
Thanks Mohana Rao garu.
lyla.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Sri "ari_sitaramayya" gAru wrote:
>> --- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Sri VNR gAru wrote:
>> We inherited great literature in Telugu, which includes poets like
>> Nannyya, Tikknna, Srinatha, Peddana and host of others, and the
>> lullabies our grandmothers sang and tales they told at bedtime.
>> We knew how to distinguish a good poem from bad.
>> I wonder what happened to that taste.
>
> This may sound irreverent, but I don't understand why Nannaya is a
> better poet than SriSri. I don't remember one poem Nannaya wrote,
> but I remember a dozen of SriSri's poems.
I hope Sri Ari gAru doesn't mind my responding. I did not understand
after reading Sri VNR gAri post, that he attempted to rank poets.
I understood it to distinguish and discern the artistic ability of
sculpting beauty with words, from the overriding priority to
emphasise a particular theme or ideology. Also he expressed concern
about the taste for writing craftsmanship giving way to preferring
only labels/themes of the end product- however personally appealing
those themes/topics might be for us.
> Think of a jeweler who made ornaments for the queen. He made
> fantastic jewelry. But only a queen could afford his creations.
> Maybe there were six others who could also afford. Today, the same
> jewelry may be found in a museum. Ordinary women do see them in the
> exhibits and appreciate the beauty and the craftsmanship, but the
> jewelry they themselves wear is quite different. Some may not even
> be wearing gold, but silver and beads. Do we say the tastes in
> jewelry have deteriorated?
I am not sure if this analogy applies. Firstly, this assumes that
the ornate jewelry has always been available to only chosen few.
Completely contrary to it, Telugu Literary gems (poems, lullabies
etc.), have been available and recited by many even so called
illiterate masses too, in addition to classes. Secondly, if
erstwhile royal jewelry is locked up to be found only in museums,
the rich heritage of literary gems is freely available in addition
to, now getting extinct species of people's lips, in the pages of
books too.
Also, this is not to construe that the best is only limited to past,
but the ability to pick and prefer the best is becoming a past trait.
Before keyboards are thumped away protesting about who determines
the best or good, let me hasten to say, they as deemed by only
oneself! How so? Again analogies can only go so far, but this seems
more like the rapacious appetite for fast food in stead of
nutritious and delicious food. Who doesn't eat fast food and who
among those doesn't know it is not the best? I do know, but I fall
for it often! Falling for such taste may be what Sri VNR might be
alluding to, I imagine with impudence. I let Sri VNR gAru to correct
any misinterpretations or mischaracterizations on my part.
చివరగా భర్తృహరి మాటల్లో కాదు, శ్రీ పాద వారి మాటల్లో చెప్పాలంటే,
రత్నాలను తక్కు ధరకు కడితే, ఆ రత్నాలది కాదా తప్పిదము.
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From rajpalla@y... Tue Oct 19 22:35:19 2004
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>I have a question about a name. It may not be a telugu >name. I
>heard 'Nargis' is a flower. Can some one tell me what >flower it is
>and in which language? Thanks.( i know there was a Hindi >actress by
>that name.)
Nargis means Daffodil(narcissus). It is persian variant of narcissus, I guess. Now what is, daffodil called in telugu?
Saleem
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
Velcheru Narayana Rao
My apologies to all RBites. I haven't been able to keep up with the
discussion, some of which has been generated
after my post. I may not able to respond to all of the issues raised, but I
will try to address some of them.
I must first thank Lyla garu for the great opening she provided to me by
making critical statements against Sri Sri.
My statements against Ravi Sastry are of the same nature.
I said in my last post that there is a crisis of taste in Telugu
literature. Simply stated, it is caused by confusing, themes, ideas
political positions and social action with literature. This has been age
old problem with Telugu literature, but it
gained almost universal acceptance in the last thirty years. I can't do any
better than quote Ari Sitaramayya
garu to present the problem succinctly. Ari garu wrote:
"Now, for hundreds of years, poetry was written to propagate religion. For
another 2 or 3 hundred
years it was written in praise of kings and queens. Nobody ever wrote about
me until the 20th century. Finally we had SriSri."
This is what I would call crisis of taste.
To present an analogy: a sculptor could use gold or a base metal, marble or
ordinary clay -- to create his/her work of art.
I don't know if I would decide its artistic quality based on my attitude to
the material used. Kings, queens, or religious themes,
common people or secular thoughts do not make anything artistic by
themselves. I could take a very admirable social theme and write
a totally ridiculous poem.
Literature is independent of the subject matter on which it is commonly
supposed to be based.
There is nothing right or wrong with the subject matter, the raw material,
for literature. But let's face it -- for all our love for progressive/liberal
ideas and ideologies, there's not one great writer that emerged from this
context yet.
I know, as well as you do, that Sri Sri and Ravi Sastry loved revolution
and class war. But that was their personal understanding.
When they wrote -- they were NOT Marxists. That's why they failed..The
person who talks, eats and pays bills, and who signs his name at the end of
his work, is NOT the writer. I don't know I am making sense, and may not be
able to make my point clear within the space I have here.
If you are interested read Brecht. He is about the only writer who WROTE AS
A MARXIST and succeeded.
Marxism and other modern ideologies have not yet produced a writer in
Telugu. Many of our good writers tried and failed. They tried to mould their
ideas with their literary skills. In the end they ruined their literary
work and their ideas too. They ended up being
preachers, messengers of confused thoughts which appeal to some of us
because we love those ideas in some vague way. But in the process,we lost our
judgement to see that they failed as writers.
I have nothing against progressive ideas and philosophies of social action
but I don't depend on my writers and poets to teach them to me.
It would have been a great loss to the world if Marx wrote a poem instead
his celebrated work, The Capital. (Perhaps you know that Marx also
wrote poetry.)
We inherited great literature in Telugu, which includes poets like Nannyya,
Tikknna, Srinatha, Peddana and host of others, and the lullabies
our grandmothers sang and tales they told at bedtime. We knew how to
distinguish a good poem from bad.
I wonder what happened to that taste.
VNR
t 01:24 PM 10/15/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> > > పతితులార, భ్రష్టులార, బాధాసర్ప దష్టులార.
> > దీనులార హీనులార.
> > దగాపడిన తమ్ములార.
> > ఏడవకండేడవకమ్డి.
> >
> > If some one says those things to me and make me feel like a useless
> > bum and then proceed to wipe my tears, God be my witness I will slap
> > him.
>
>Lyla garu, no piece of literature is ever written for everybody. A
>writer writes with a particular worldview and the reader responds to
>it because of his/her own worldview. Go ahead and
>slap him if you are offended. But he wasn't addressing you, you were
>mistaken, it was me he was talking to.
>
>Regards,
>Ari Sitaramayya.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to: racch...@yahoogroups.com
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
Ramarao Kanneganti
----- Original Message -----
From: "srini_nagul" <srini_nagul@y...>
To: <racch...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:15 AM
Subject: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
> --- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
> wrote:
>> There is an inevitable decline in the average readers taste,
>> because there are more readers. However, there are more people with
>> better taste than ever before. It is simply statistics.
>
> I disagree that number of readers or statistics, has anything to do
> with the tastes for artistic beauties and heart-touching splendours.
> Sun set and the infant's chuckle are beautiful no matter how much
> the human population increases and how advanced statistics gets.
> What touches the human sensitivities and stirs up an evocative
> imagery of vision, is, I believe, not constrained by numbers,
> although numbers by themselves may present an awesome grandeur to
> a trained eye like that of Ramanujan.
>
> Regards
> -Srinivas Nagulapalli
Huh? How does beauty of sunset has anything to with artistic taste of
people? By your token since the sunset has the same beauty, the artistic
tastes of people, even before there were people, were the same. And,
Ramanujan? Trained eye? It is called many things, but trained it is not. If
any it is considered an intuitive eye, perhaps.
What touches human sensitivities and evokes an image is not constrained by
numbers -- how does this statement support or contradict what I said
earlier. It is a nonsequitar. Apropos nothing.
--
Rama
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
wrote:
> There is an inevitable decline in the average readers taste,
> because there are more readers. However, there are more people with
> better taste than ever before. It is simply statistics.
I disagree that number of readers or statistics, has anything to do
with the tastes for artistic beauties and heart-touching splendours.
Sun set and the infant's chuckle are beautiful no matter how much
the human population increases and how advanced statistics gets.
What touches the human sensitivities and stirs up an evocative
imagery of vision, is, I believe, not constrained by numbers,
although numbers by themselves may present an awesome grandeur to
a trained eye like that of Ramanujan.
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From chavakiran@g... Tue Oct 19 22:35:43 2004
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http://www.eenadu.net/vipnew3/display1.asp?url=vip-kathalu.htm
Incase you already know I am sorry.
konni kathalu baagunnayi
Thanks,
Kiran Kumar Chava
--
http://chavakiran.rediffblogs.com naa sOdi
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
ari_sitaramayya
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao <vnrao@w...>
wrote:
> We inherited great literature in Telugu, which includes poets like
Nannyya,
> Tikknna, Srinatha, Peddana and host of others, and the lullabies
> our grandmothers sang and tales they told at bedtime. We knew how to
> distinguish a good poem from bad.
>
> I wonder what happened to that taste.
This may sound irreverent, but I don't understand why Nannaya is a
better poet than SriSri. I don't remember one poem Nannaya wrote, but
I remember a dozen of SriSri's poems. You can say that I am ignorant
and that I don't know the difference between good and bad.
At the risk of repeating what I said in the past, I don't think the
tastes in literature have deteriorated. The times have changed. We can
still tell the difference between good poetry and bad, but what we
called good then and what we call good today may be different. If you
don't accept that, then only the poetry of old is good for you.
Think of a jeweler who made ornaments for the queen. He made fantastic
jewelry. But only a queen could afford his creations. Maybe there were
six others who could also afford. Today, the same jewelry may be found
in a museum. Ordinary women do see them in the exhibits and appreciate
the beauty and the craftsmanship, but the jewelry they themselves wear
is quite different. Some may not even be wearing gold, but silver and
beads. Do we say the tastes in jewelry have deteriorated?
Regards,
Anandaswarup Gadde
>From one of the articles recommended by Sri Srinivas Paruchuri, I
came across the following passage about the idealogical bias of some
Telugu writers:
" Amidst the galaxy of Telugu poests of the age spreading the
revolutionary message, Nannaya stands alone as the defender of
traditional brahminical systems. Nannaya, though born in an orthodox
brahmin family of that age, and well versed in traditional learning
in Sanskrit, vedas and sastras, deviated from the norm of brahminical
scholarship of the day and used the vernacular in writing the
Mahabharata-perhaps to counteract the new movement with the same
weapon it had begun to wield in the course of propogation of its
message. He is a master poet and did his job creditably. Whether it
is the greatness of the vedas, the supremacy and sanctity of
brahmins, the importance of adhering to customs and conductas
prescribed by the dharmasastras, he would convey these subtly but
effectively by making use of the various situations in the story
line, side by side with its gripping narration (Arudra,1989:146-186)".
The artcle is 'Reginal Identity ...' by D.Nagaraju in Social
Scientist,(1975),269-271, page 19.
Swarup
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> - 'women are like shallow brooks. They make pleasant
> sounds, but they have no deapth.' is applicable to SriSri. He just
> put some nice sounding words together and made some noise. Sounds
> 'full of fury, means nothing.'
>
> But what do I know! I am a woman and a lay person in literary
> science.:-)
>
Have you tried reading Krishna Sastri, yet? While you move on, can I
suggest you to please donate that book of SriSri.
regards, viplav
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
lylayer
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "vcjampala" <cjampala@d...> wrote:
>
>
...కృష్ణశాస్త్రి పద్యాలు చదివి,
శ్రీశ్రీ అగ్గిపుల్లలోనూ, కుక్కపిల్లలోనూ
కవిత్వం
...
"ఏమిటి వంతెన మీద నుంచుని చూస్తున్నావు?"
"సంధ్య కేసి."
"ఎవరు ఆమె?"
అంటే ఏం మాట్లాడగలిగాను?
(excerpted from చెలం, 17-7-40)
Regards -- V. Chowdary Jampala
సముద్రపు ఒడ్డున, ఇసుకలో పవ్వళిమ్చి ఒక బేల తాబేలు. :-)
"భావోద్యానమునన్ కోరికల్ తేవల్ సాగి,లతామ్గి,
ఏకమైపోదమీ ప్రాకున్నేరద పమ్క్తికిమ్ద
పులకిమ్చన్ పూర్వ పుణ్యావళుల్"
అనే ప్రియ 'క్రిష్నా గేతాలు వింతుంతే,
దిప్ప మీద కొట్టి, పై మాటలు చెప్పినప్పుడు తాబేలు, ప్రేమతో, ఇలా
అమ్ది...
కావలి! అదృష్టవంతులు మీరు...
కావలి! వడ్డించిన విస్తరి మీ జీవితం
"ఆకులో ఆకునై, పూవులో పూవునై" అనే
'అరుణా కల రమణుదు, చౌదరికి
చెలం, అరుణాచెలం, రమనాచెలం కన్నా,
సంధ్యల అరునారున కాంతులగురిమ్చి
ఇమ్కా ఎక్కువ తెలియాలని నా ఆశ!
God Bless!
Lyla.
P.S: Girls slap, but side step the return slaps.:-)
how ever, when I comment on telugus, or mankind ( any one under
the species - Homo sapiens) women are always included.
I am responding to may be - three of your posts in one.
From lylayfl@a... Fri Oct 15 15:47:06 2004
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Subject: Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
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--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
wrote:
>
> Lyla garu, no piece of literature is ever written for everybody. A
> writer writes with a particular worldview and the reader responds
to
> it because of his/her own worldview.
Finally we had SriSri. Go ahead and
> slap him if you are offended. But he wasn't addressing you, you
were
> mistaken, it was me he was talking to.
>
>
Ari garu:
A few posts back Viplav asked for my Sri Sri books. Now you, Ari garu
you want to have Sri Sri all for yourself . Not so fast gentlemen.
Not so fast. What are you gentle men? Modern Robin Hoods? :-)
I can be critical of certain aspects of a writer's writing with out
losing respect for the certain other aspects.
I respond to Sri Sri's poetry.
Sold on the sentence ఏవి తల్లీ నిరుడు కురిసిన హిమ సమూహములు? I
know it is a translation. I still like it.
(I like to say 'Where are the snows of yester years?' too. I think
it sounds good.)
అన్నమయ అన్నట్టు ' ఒక్క సమ్కీర్తనమే చాలు, తక్కినవీ పదివేలూ,
దాచుకో
Have a good evening.
lyla.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao
<vnrao@w...> wrote:
>I said in my last post that there is a crisis of taste in Telugu
>literature. Simply stated, it is caused by confusing, themes, ideas
>political positions and social action with literature. This has been
age
>old problem with Telugu literature, but it
>gained almost universal acceptance in the last thirty years. I can't
do any
>better than quote Ari Sitaramayya
>garu to present the problem succinctly. Ari garu wrote:
>"Now, for hundreds of years, poetry was written to propagate
religion. For
>another 2 or 3 hundred
>years it was written in praise of kings and queens. Nobody ever
wrote about
>me until the 20th century. Finally we had SriSri."
>This is what I would call crisis of taste.
Long ago a learned professor-emeritus at our school proposed the
following (painting with words was his property).
He declared that there was an ethical crisis in the nation. He
wondered just as Sri VNR, that we all have multiple dimensions to
each of our perspectives. Our ethical mannerisms he stated differed
from situation to situation. Circumstance to circumstance. We wish
to be good citizen of the world, work for a better nation, build
great societies as professionals, all at the same time as we also
tend to work for a belief system each of us have outwardly and
inwardly. The complexity of such existence leads to conflict and
also to a sort of crisis in ethics, more than ever before.
Another equally accomplished professor had a different
perspective/take on this same question, as he drew a few vertical
lines on the chart (drawing lines was his specialty) -
Here is the ethics line he said, drawing a twelve inch vertical line
on the chart, in the 1950s. He drew one for 1960, and for 1970 and
for 1980 - each an inch or so shorter than the previous line. It is
not appropriate to attribute crisis in ethics to a manner of
complexity and the inability to deal with conflict – because, it is
also possible that we accepted `what is ethical' for the present
knowing full well that it may not be the same in future, which leads
to a paradoxical view of decline, when in reality there was no such
decline.
I believed at the time that the two were speaking about two different
things.
Just as I believe now that Sri Ari garu speaks of the decline as no
decline at all, because we stand closer to the lines that are drawn
today. He believes that the literature of the today encompasses
wider themes.
Sri VNR is looking at the time series produced by the "confusing,
themes, ideas, political positions and social action" and concludes
that there is a decline in taste as a result of such a conflict.
I am not certain if each of these two ambiguous positions with out
the consideration provides a complete picture.
I am intrigued more by a statement by Ms. Lyla a few days ago: `I
love poetry. If one writes poetry for poetry's sake it is fine.'
What is writing poetry for poetry's sake, in her opinion?
Apart from above a few more queries:
>To present an analogy: a sculptor could use gold or a base metal,
marble or
>ordinary clay -- to create his/her work of art.
>I don't know if I would decide its artistic quality based on my
attitude to
>the material used. Kings, queens, or religious themes,
>common people or secular thoughts do not make anything artistic by
>themselves. I could take a very admirable social theme and write
>a totally ridiculous poem.
Great example.
I just would like to know what makes Sri VNR think that a totally
ridiculous writing will survive simply because it addresses a very
admirable social theme. Does he believe Kanyashulkam would have
survived if it was not for its beauty (does anyone know alternative
dramas or writings during the same period addressing the same social
theme, that have not survived – Pl answer it before Srinivas
Paruchuri gets to it) –
One recent memory, regardless of how admirable the concepts were, the
recent TANA award-winning stories were trounced as mediocre. None of
them will survive the time, at least in good light. Some of them
perhaps will - as examples of poor writing where great concepts that
can be ruined in poor hands.
Therefore, Sri VNR's thesis that some great works of any specific
theme, religious or communist, survived simply because of the theme
and not because of their quality, holds no water. Now I do reserve
the right to be wrong, just as he, if a compelling argument is
presented showing otherwise.
Regards,
-viplav-
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
Ramarao Kanneganti
Hear, hear!
I can answer where that taste that VNR is asking went
conclusively. It became better and better with
education, and it flowed into other areas. It went
into Jampla's psychology practice, it went into Ari's
eye research, Palana's botany search, Srinath's stock
market work, Paruchuri's work on that new Telugu
encyclopedia, and Suresh's software coding.
In fact, even in literature, there are more people with
better tastes than before. It may be that they are not
reading Telugu these days, but even in Telugu, just a
few years back, there were several readers with great
taste.
When I was growing up, literature was the only way you
could talk meaningfully to intelligent girls. As I
understand it, these days there are lot of other
options :-)!
It is also true that democratization of any elite ideas
leads to the tragedy of commons. There is an inevitable
decline in the average readers taste, because there are
more readers. However, there are more people with
better taste than ever before. It is simply statistics.
Consider any of the poets you mentioned: For example,
Peddana's characterization of varoodhini is quite
weak. We make allowances for times and mores, and
styles. We respect the elders of the literature. But,
if I were to write a story with such weak characters,
why, I would be criticised thoroughly.
I have the book at home, but I could show poem after
poem with poor characterization, shallow descriptions,
copying of themselves. I am aware of books that show
these works in great light so that we go "wow", but
largely these books are extensions, embellishments, or
even Barthesque readings. The originals, if we remove
all the historical baggage acquired, are brilliant at
places and poorly executed in lot of places.
We can show respect to the elder writers, and still
criticize them (just as we do for Sri Sri). As always,
we cannot escape the history and its baggage.
Now coming back to Sri Sri, I have not seen (apart from
some old sanskrit masters -- jayadeva, sankaracharya,
and valmiki come to mind) writing with such power over
matraa chandassu. I know the accusations against how
his biases corrupted his capability as a poet deserve
another posting -- so I will stop here.
There! Did I offend all the dead poets, and living
readers?
--
Rama
----- Original Message -----
From: "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
To: <racch...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
> --- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao <vnrao@w...>
>
> wrote:
>> We inherited great literature in Telugu, which includes poets like
>
> Nannyya,
>> Tikknna, Srinatha, Peddana and host of others, and the lullabies
>> our grandmothers sang and tales they told at bedtime. We knew how to
>> distinguish a good poem from bad.
>>
>> I wonder what happened to that taste.
>
> This may sound irreverent, but I don't understand why Nannaya is a
> better poet than SriSri. I don't remember one poem Nannaya wrote, but
> I remember a dozen of SriSri's poems. You can say that I am ignorant
> and that I don't know the difference between good and bad.
>
K.V.Giridhararao
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
wrote:
>
>
> --- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao
<vnrao@w...>
>
> wrote:
> > We inherited great literature in Telugu, which includes poets
like
>
> Nannyya,
> > Tikknna, Srinatha, Peddana and host of others, and the lullabies
> > our grandmothers sang and tales they told at bedtime. We knew how
to
> > distinguish a good poem from bad.
> >
> > I wonder what happened to that taste.
>
> This may sound irreverent, but I don't understand why Nannaya is a
> better poet than SriSri. I don't remember one poem Nannaya wrote,
but
> I remember a dozen of SriSri's poems.
చిన్న సందేహం:
పద్యాల్లో కవిత్వ సారాన్ని నిర్థేసించే అంశం గుర్తుండే గుణమా?
తేలిగ్గా గుర్తుండే పద్యాలు వ్రాయడము కవి ప్రతిభకు నిదర్శనమా
లేక పాఠకుడి జ్పకశక్తికి గీటురాయా?
Regards,
Giri
P.S. evari j~pakaSaktini SaMkiMcuTa lEdani manavi.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
wrote:
> The curse is that it inherently colors our impressions, creating a
> context from which we can never escape.
Is that statement also inherently colored and expressed by one who
never escaped too? Or is it an escaped one giving us the truth to
those who are conclusively determined and doomed to never escape
the supposed "curse"? Is there actually anything called "curse"?
I am sorry for being dense, but I pray it to be defined please.
> We justify our choices under the name of "justifiable pride in
> one's own culture". The premise of deconstruction is to escape from
> the center to understand things from other positions. We are bound
> by what we are conditioned to like.
Really? Who discovered how others justify choices, let alone
figure how choices are made? Help me with the context but, is the
one saying that we are all bound, is also bound and conditioned?
Or is it from someone unbound and unconditioned? And how does one
know?
> Then again, if the greatness of a work is measured by how
> illiterates can recite poems, all I can say is look at nursery
> rhymes!
What does this mean? Nursery rhymes or any less great? May be in
other cultures. But speaking only for Telugu, not just rhymes,
but we have కాదేదీ కవిత కనర్హం. Beauty of moon can also be
shown in a tiny little hand-mirror by an adept hand. That in no
way reduces the moon's stature.
> I can safely say that I rather be a fan of Dickens than consider
> Tirupati Venkata Kavulu as the epitome of poetic excellence.
I respect that. For me, I am fortunate to know and learn both and
I feel enriched and inspired by both. Also, Tirupati Venkata kavulu
are not known just for poetic excellence, which they might have,
but also for stupendous intellectual eminence. I humbly submit I
neither have the scholarship nor even the impudence or need to rank
them or judge them. I also think many who claim to do so, also don't
have it either.
>
> I am not sure if you understood the meaning behind "moment of
greatness
> flicker". Incidentally, it too is from a poet, nobel prize winning,
called
> "T.S. Eliot". It meant despite all the things, I do see flashes of
genius,
> but nothing consistent enough for me champion it. Since I cannot
escape my
> context, am I imagining the greatness, or is it really there?
I do not know why T.S.Eliot said what he said and I am sure he
has his reasons. I respect that. What inspires me more than that
quote is ఎందెందు వెతకి చూచిన అందందే కలడు pAdaM of Pothana.
Not seeing at one time/place, but seeing that greatness and beauty
everywhere where sight falls one, made that one's seeing, well seer.
> Well, there is a reason why nuanced writing is not popular in AP.
Blame the
> readers!
If failure to communicate is also a form of nuanced writing and
if blaming readers is the attitude of writers, I don't think
such writers are of much help and service anyway, and readers will
not respond likewise blaming them, but will not miss them either a
bit.
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From rama@k... Thu Oct 14 11:58:14 2004
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From: "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
Subject: Re: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
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I am deliberately ignoring the righteous indignation and faux politeness in
your posting. In particular, you are making an implicit, ah heck, actually
very explicit assumption that I do not, not did not read or enjoy Telugu
poetry or prose. While I am under no illusion that it is as high quality as
the best in the world, I do enjoy telugu books, even the inferior ones, more
than the better books in other langugages out there. It is so especially
true for Telugu movie songs and poetry. That, I consider a limitation, a
curse, that I have to live with. Of course, I am not particularly sorry
about that fact; lot less sorry than I am about choosing to participate in
this thread this long.
lylayer
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "J. K. Mohana Rao" <jkmrao@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> >
> SrISrI's contributions to modern telugu literature
> cannot be mesaured just by his output alone.
Supposedly the complete works of Sri Sri contains 20 books, as
brought out by విరసం
I am not sure if the project was completed or not. Those that
attended Vanguri's
conference in New jersey may be able to tell us.
I have only read Sri Sri's ఖడ్గ స్రుస్టి, మహాప్రస్థానం, views and
reviews and essays. (including the essay on VNR's తెలుగులొ కవితా
విప్లవ స్వరూపము.
Is that enough reading to talk about Sri Sri. I think so. I can learn
more from those who read more in the process of discussion.
So if I may, I will be commenting as I quote him.
Sri Sri in his preface to మహప్రస్థానం says: (translated by me)
' In my work , All I have done is I have diagnosed the disease of
the society.'
If it is not a grandiose statement full of hot air - tell me what it
is.
He says -"This is our world. This is how our people are." He
continues to say " This is correct diagnosis. But it should not stop
here. One should look for the right medicine for the diseases. These
diseases will not go away by rubbing ointments. They need surgery.
That is what I call revolution."
Now, what is all that? If some one tells me this is not lot of
baloney and empty talk, try and convince me, showing what was
accomplished after such talk.
I suppose this is how Sri Sri saw the people around him.
పతితులార, భ్రష్టులార, బాధాసర్ప దష్టులార.
దీనులార హీనులార.
దగాపడిన తమ్ములార.
ఏడవకండేడవకమ్డి.
If some one says those things to me and make me feel like a useless
bum and then proceed to wipe my tears, God be my witness I will slap
him.
Listen to this:
మీ కోసం కలం పట్టి.
జగన్నాధుని రధ చక్రాల్
భూమార్గం పట్టీస్తాను
భూకంపం పుట్టీస్తాను
Have you seen that chariot? That is what I call grand talk. No real
work. Words 'Full of Fury signifying nothing'
dear writer! Sri Sri! you are holding that pen just for me! How sweet!
How about if I give back same అక్షర లక్షలు
Here he goes again:
అరె ఝూ! ఝూ! ఝతక్, ఫటక్..
What is he? మాయల ఫకీరు? డవిద్ ఛొప్పెర్ఫిఎల్ద్?
ఈ లొవె పోత్ర్య్. ఈఫ్ ఒనె వ్రితెస్ పోత్ర్య్ ఫొర్ పోత్ర్య్ధస్్కె ఇత్ ఇస్ ఫినె.
భుత్ ఇఫ్ ఒనె సయ్స్ ఈ అం వ్రితింగ్ ఇత్ విథ్ అ పుర్పొసె అంద్ ఈ వంత్ తొ స్తిర్ ఉప్
పెఒప్లె -ఈ లికె థత్ పెర్సొన్ తొ షౌ మె వ్హ్య్? అంద్ వ్హత్ వస్ అచిఎవెద్.
ణొ దౌబ్త్, శ్రి శ్రి స్తర్తెద్ వెల్ల్. ఒల్లౌఇంగ్ ఇన్ థె పథ్ ఒఫ్
gurajADa. ఛ్రీతింగ్ నెవ్ సౌంద్, నెవ్ ర్హ్య్థ్ం. ణొ దౌబ్త్ హె వ్రొతె గూద్
పోత్ర్య్ తొ రీద్. ఆంద్ గ్రీత్ చినెమ సొంగ్స్ తూ. శొమె ఒఫ్ హిస్ ఎస్సయ్స్ అరె
గూద్. ఈన్ సొమె బూక్ రెవిఎవ్స్, హె దోస్ణ్త్ ఎవెన్ బొథెర్ అబౌత్ థె బూక్స్,
హె ఇస్ సుప్పొసెద్ తొ రెవిఎవ్.
భుత్ అస్ హె వస్ వ్రితింగ్, ంఅర్క్షిస్ం వస్ థ్రుస్త్ ఒన్ హిం, అంద్ హిస్ వ్రితింగ్స్.
ఆంద్ హె ప్రొబబ్ల్య్ హద్ నొ చొఇచె ఎకష్చెప్త్ తొ తకె ఒన్ థె రొలె, హిస్ సొచిఎత్య్
అంద్ థె దీర్ పెఒప్లె ఇన్ ఇత్ వంతెద్ హిం తొ తకె. హె హద్ అ పయ్మెంత్ తొ
మకె, తొ చల్ల్ హింసెల్ఫ్ mahAkavi. హె హద్ తొ ఈత్ హిస్ ఔన్ చకె.
ఠొసె అరె అ ఫెవ్ ఒఫ్ మ్య్ థౌఘ్త్స్. ఆల్వయ్స్ విల్లింగ్ తొ లిస్తెన్ తొ యౌర్స్,
అంద్ ఒథెర్స్.
ఋఎగర్ద్స్
ల్య్ల.
> థుస్ ఎంచౌరగింగ్ హొర్దెస్ ఒఫ్ నెవ్ వ్రితెర్స్.
> హె ఇస్ థుస్ అ పితామహ ఒఫ్ మాత్రాఛందస్ ఇన్ గేయకవిత్వ.
> శౌంద్ (ధ్వని) మీన్స్ ఉఇతె అ లొత్ ఇన్ పోత్ర్య్ అంద్ ఫుర్య్
> సొమెతిమెస్ ఇస్ అ నెచెస్సర్య్ విర్తుఎ!
> ఋఎగర్ద్స్! - మోహన
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--- ఈన్ రచ్చబందయహూగ్రౌప్స్.చొం, "ల్య్లయెర్" <ల్య్లయ్ఫ్ల్అ...> వ్రొతె:
> patitulAra, BrashTulAra, bAdhAsarpa dashTulAra.
> dInulAra hInulAra.
> dagApaDina tammulAra.
> EDavakanDEDavakamDi.
>
> ఈఫ్ సొమె ఒనె సయ్స్ థొసె థింగ్స్ తొ మె అంద్ మకె మె ఫీల్ లికె అ ఉసెలెస్స్
> బుం అంద్ థెన్ ప్రొచీద్ తొ విపె మ్య్ తీర్స్, ఘొద్ బె మ్య్ విత్నెస్స్ ఈ విల్ల్
స్లప్
> హిం.
వౌల్ద్ సొమెఒనె థత్ సయ్స్
adRshTavaMtulu meeru...
vaDDiMcina vistari mee jeevitam
బె లికెల్య్ తొ ఎస్చపె థత్ స్లప్?
ఋఎగర్ద్స్ -- వ్. ఛౌదర్య్ ఝంపల
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
sreenadh@g
To put this into perspective, I suggest we broaden the scope of the question
posed in the subject line.
Arguably, Indians, and Telugus in particular, are much closer to parity (many
will in fact argue that they are actually superior!) with the west in hard
sciences. Yet how many Telugus have won a Nobel prize in Math, Physics,
Chemistry, Medicine? Actually, the answer is quite pathetic. We think it's big
news if a Telugu kid wins the spelling bee.
While it is hard to "grow" genius, I think the educational systems in place in
India need rethinking, to produce independant thinkers. (Maybe it is happening
now, but it wasn't when I was in school). Only then can we dream of Nobel Prizes.
- Sreenadh
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
J. K. Mohana Rao
--- lylayer <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
>
> Sri Sri is nowhere near Viswanadha. What Oscar Wlide says about
> women :-) - 'women are like shallow brooks. They make pleasant
> sounds, but they have no deapth.' is applicable to SriSri. He just
> put some nice sounding words together and made some noise. Sounds
> 'full of fury, means nothing.'
>
SrISrI's contributions to modern telugu literature
cannot be mesaured just by his output alone. He
influnced a geneation of writers. He borrowed
the old prosodial patterns of bygone Sanskrit and
Telugu poets and refurbished them and made them
acceptable thus encouraging hordes of new writers.
He is thus a pitAmaha of mAtrAChaMdas in gEyakavitva.
Sound (dhvani) means quite a lot in poetry and fury
sometimes is a necessary virtue!
I am neither a litterateur nor a learned man.
My ideas may be fossilised ones! But this is what
I personally feel.
Regards! - mOhana
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
ari_sitaramayya
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Anandaswarup Gadde"
<gaddeswarup@y...> wrote:
Nannaya, though born in an orthodox
> brahmin family of that age, and well versed in traditional
learning
> in Sanskrit, vedas and sastras, deviated from the norm of
brahminical
> scholarship of the day and used the vernacular in writing the
> Mahabharata-perhaps to counteract the new movement with the same
> weapon it had begun to wield in the course of propogation of its
> message. He is a master poet and did his job creditably. Whether
it
> is the greatness of the vedas, the supremacy and sanctity of
> brahmins, the importance of adhering to customs and conductas
> prescribed by the dharmasastras, he would convey these subtly but
> effectively by making use of the various situations in the story
> line, side by side with its gripping narration (Arudra,1989:146-
186)".
>
> The artcle is 'Reginal Identity ...' by D.Nagaraju in Social
> Scientist,(1975),269-271, page 19.
> Swarup
Interesting. Arudra used a lot of words in the above description for
the isms promoted by nannaya, but only a few, meaningless words
(master poet, creditable job) for his poetry. With apologies to VNR
garu, it looks to me that nannaya would have been a great poet if he
wasn't a vedist, brahminist and dharmasastrist.
I would like to see a good, critical, academic analysis of the
poetry of all the classical writers. How much of it is poetry for
poetry's sake? How much of it is brahministic propaganda? Do you see
consistent practice of brevity and musicality in their poetry? Were
the descriptions appropriate? Is the behavior of their characters
logical? Stuff like that. If we do that, how will the classical
poets stack up against contemporary poets?
Going back to nannaya and his being credited for writing in the
vernacular, please hold the applause. There is more decency in
recent telugu movies than telugu in nannaya's poetry. If we are
going to criticize contemporary writers for unnecessarily using
English words in their writings, which, by the way, I completely
agree with, then let us apply the same standard for nannaya.
According to one report nine out of ten words he wrote were of
sanskrit. If you are looking for a real revolutionary of that
period, a champion of telugu, my nomination is for paalkuriki
sOmanaatha. sOmanaatha doesn't get any credit, doesn't find any
place in required reading in text books, because he was an anti-
brahminist and anti-vedist. I even heard an unconfirmed rumor that
he was a closet marxist!
Ari (irreverent) Sitaramayya.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
ari_sitaramayya
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "viplavreddy" <viplavreddy@y...>
wrote:
> All he is saying is if you are a 'believer' then it is impossible
> for you to be independent. Recall his comments on Raavi Sastri -
to
> paraphrase, 'when he wrote, he was not a Marxist - if he was, then
> he could not be a great writer'.
>
> Now do we agree?
Viplav garu, it is difficult enough for me to say clearly what is in
my head. I would rather not paraphrase what VNR garu meant.
I personally do not separate the person from the writer. You cannot
be a different person when you take the pen. Irrespective of whether
your ism is brahminism, nationalism, romanticism or marxism, you can
write good poetry if you are skilled. My belief is that the poetry
of the last century is as good or better than the poetry of the
classical period. Same goes for storytelling.
Regards,
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao
<vnrao@w...> wrote:
>What they claim to believe in, or support is not always
>the same as
>what they end up writing. Meaning of any good
>writing does not sit on the surface of the text.
<snipped>
>That is the reason why a good work of literature outlasts its
immediate
> "purpose,"
As I finish this thought, my cheeks are burning from the constant,
repetitive wiping of my tears that refuse to stop.
My hopes of writing anything good ever are dashed for-ever, as I
begin to kill that notion once and for all. The temptation of
picking up the same pen for being an activist seeking clarity in
order to serve an immediate purpose is too great to resist. That's
what I shall do and I shall never regret it.
These above words could be from Late raavi saastri if he were to
respond to what Sri VNR is saying. The opening is to dramatize the
event, don't rush with a tissue yet. (Raa. Saa. is just a place
holder, it could be anyone).
As writing for writing's sake lights up the sky emulating a మకర
జ్యోతి and as people are awestruck and line up to view the same
with blinds all around them to the extent of not noticing wavering
candles that they are holding, that are put out by an ephemeral wind
rushing to see the same great light, each of those small flickers of
a light that can only form a shadow of its own snuffed out and does
not inspire any awe as that giant of white light -- are those small
fires not more important for the mere mortals?
the value of a matchstick that has lit a thousand lights, will we
ever be able to measure using the same standard as an eternal
flickering of a virtual flame that has no end? Is it not waste of
an attempt to discriminate the usefulness of 'such fire that has a
purpose' with the beauty of that జ్యోతి, that great light, which
neither is recognized when written nor when read, possibly for
centuries -
Thanks & regards,
-viplav-
PS. సౌండు లేదు ఇటుపక్కనుంచయితే, అటేమైనా వినపడుతోందా?
I close with a sincere thanks to the teacher. I am glad I stayed on
the board long enough to hear what he had to say. I agree with his
premise under the title we are discussing this.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
J. K. Mohana Rao
--- ari_sitaramayya <ari@O...> wrote:
> If you are looking for a real revolutionary of that
> period, a champion of telugu, my nomination is for paalkuriki
> sOmanaatha. sOmanaatha doesn't get any credit, doesn't find any
> place in required reading in text books, because he was an anti-
> brahminist and anti-vedist.
>
Well, in my recent ramblings on udAharaNa, due credit
was given to sOmanAtha repeatedly. I hope readers
noticed it. Regards! - mOhana
Ramarao Kanneganti
----- Original Message -----
From: "srini_nagul" <srini_nagul@y...>
To: <racch...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 2:29 PM
Subject: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
> It contradicts your assertion that tastes decline
> with increase in readers. Furthermore, who discovered the proof
> of declining tastes with increase in readers- any references?
>
> Regards
> -Srinivas Nagulapalli
Basically, reducing the barriers to entry lets even casual users in. If the
barriers are high, a self selection takes place. [Books not being available,
education being difficult, earning livelihood is difficult => self
selection -- only the motivated people go and read books]. If barriers are
too high, then there is no critical mass. It is too low, then it leads to
low common denominators.
The proof in these matters is not really discovered by one person. If you
are looking for a good proponent of these concepts, the theory of self
selection and commonization of tastes is dealt by Amos Tversky. You may
refer to his works with Daniel Kahneman. Please be prepared for some
probability theory though.
Velcheru Narayana Rao
I am afraid I did not make myself clear enough. I am drawing a distinction
between the person who writes, and the person
who does other things, though both inhabit the same body. If Sri Sri or
Ravi Sastry believed in Marxism AS WRITERS -- they would
have succeeded in producing good Marxist writing. While they may have
believed in Marxism as individuals, their literary personalities
are not Marxist. The Marxism they adopt in their literary endeavors sits
uncomfortably on their work and ruins both itself and the work.
My claim is that there is not one good Marxist writer yet in Telugu,
comparable to Brecht in German. Marxist writers in Telugu end up being
slogan mongers, and noise makers -- rather than poets and writers. The same
writers succeed eminently in their non-Marxist works. Sri
Sri and Ravi Sastri are excellent modernists. Examples are in Sri Sri's
poem which Lyla garu translated and Ravi Sastry's varsham.
You can't say the same thing about Nannaya or Kalidasa (sorry for bringing
a Sanskrit poet into this argument). Their literary personalities,
(which are the only personalities we know anyway) are fully embedded in
their beliefs and world views. They succeed as poets while
they communicate their beliefs and world views. That's also the reason why
you can enjoy them as poets irrespective of their
beliefs.
A poet can belive in anything, including a philosophy you may not like, but
she is a poet, as long as she writes a good poem.
Conversely, a poet is NOT a poet just because she adopts a philosophy you
happen to like.
Now the question is what is a good poem? A good short story, novel or any
other piece of writing?
That's the area of literary criticism, an area hopelessly underdeveloped in
Telugu, and good taste, which is under attack in Andhra, though luckily
not in RB.
vnr
At 09:30 PM 10/21/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
>wrote:
> > (master poet, creditable job) for his poetry. With apologies to
>VNR
> > garu, it looks to me that nannaya would have been a great poet if
>he
> > wasn't a vedist, brahminist and dharmasastrist.
> >
>I understood Sri VNR with a slight difference.
>
>(a) If Sri VNR were to agree Nannaya to be a great poet, he would be
>basing that on the fact that he wrote independently of his beliefs.
>All he is saying is if you are a 'believer' then it is impossible
>for you to be independent. Recall his comments on Raavi Sastri - to
>paraphrase, 'when he wrote, he was not a Marxist - if he was, then
>he could not be a great writer'.
>
>Now do we agree?
>
>thanks & regds,
>-viplav-
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
wrote:
> I would like to see a good, critical, academic analysis of the
> poetry of all the classical writers. How much of it is poetry for
> poetry's sake?
I think Viplav gAru asked this earlier, and I also would like to
know what exactly is this writing poetry for poetry's sake.
> Do you see consistent practice of brevity and musicality in their
> poetry?
Since when poetry is being judged based on consistent practice of
brevity? మరో ప్రపంచం, మరో ప్రపంచం, మరో ప్రపంచం పిలిచింది
I like it this way, and it would feel like chicken with its head
cut-off if brevity ruled that! And what musicality exists if
brevity rules to the roost?!
> Going back to nannaya and his being credited for writing in the
> vernacular, please hold the applause. There is more decency in
> recent telugu movies than telugu in nannaya's poetry.
You mean అచ్చ తెలుగు when you say Telugu? Are there any doubts
about the more difficulty in comprehending an acca-telugu work
than telugu work as we know?
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From sreenadh@g... Thu Oct 21 11:21:10 2004
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ఆ సినిమా చూడలేదుగానీ there is another interesting flower in Sreekrishna
Tulaabhaaram - the director's visualization of the పారిజాతం. In fact, the
tree it grows on was even more bizzare, especially as regards the relative sizes
of tree/flower!
- Sreenadh
Quoting Narasimham Paranandi <paalana@y...>:
> avunu kAnI - A "saugaMdhikA pushpaM" asalu pErEmi? mIku telusunA? adi
> BImAMjanEya yuddhaM sinImA anukuMTAnu (eMTI rAmArAvu BImuDigA naTiMcina
> citraM) - pedda puvvokaTi SRshTiMcADu darSakamahAtmuDu. vicitramaina
> pushpamE!
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao
<vnrao@w...> wrote:
>
> I am afraid I did not make myself clear enough. I am drawing a
distinction
> between the person who writes, and the person
> who does other things, though both inhabit the same body. If Sri
Sri or
> Ravi Sastry believed in Marxism AS WRITERS -- they would
> have succeeded in producing good Marxist writing. While they may
have
> believed in Marxism as individuals, their literary personalities
> are not Marxist. The Marxism they adopt in their literary
endeavors sits
> uncomfortably on their work and ruins both itself and the work.
This is the part that is not clear to me. Rest is somewhat easy in
understanding the argument. I admit I also have relatively no
knowledge base in "literary matters & measures". May be people
would say I have no business in these matters - I am actually
waiting for Sri Veluri to pull his whip out, fortunately he may be
busy elsewhere.
I will make a final attempt here in public.
Does VNR garu believe that a literary endeavor/personality is
different from that of the individual's belief system?
I attempt this time in mathematical terms: Does Sri VNR think that
literary pursuit is the third dimention one must adhear to despite a
skillful/articulated attempt at writing from a belief.
regards,
-viplav-
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
V.Narayana Rao
This has nothing to do with Telugu Nobels and we might as well change the
topic.
The received wisdom which Arudra, and whole bunch of literary historians
before him, somewhat lazily
accept in their portrayal of Nannya is not supported by facts. We have no
information about the social, literary or cultural context
of Nannya's enterprise. We don't even know for certain
what prompted him to write in Telugu. It is very possible there was a large
group of writers in Telugu
by the time Nannaya was writing and he is by no means the "first" writer we
think he is.
Rajarajanarednra, whom Nannaya describes as a great warrior, is not much of
a warrior nor did he provide
a sustained patronage. The literary production of the time, perhaps, like
during many other times, is a self
sustaining process and did not depend as much on royal funding as we
assume, or for that matter as the poets
themselves describe.
It is not difficult to imagine that many books are lost --for no other
reason than that no one chose to copy
the book periodically. A palm leaf manuscript lasts about four hundred
years and decays.
Furthermore, the glory literary historians assign to Nannaya of saving the
Brahminic religion from the Jains and so on
is another piece of fiction repeated again and again in Telugu histories of
literature, with absolutely
no evidence.
I do not know how one could save a whole religion by just writing a book,
which was not even completed.
We can posit an active literary community which preserves the books that
appeals to them, and we might even posit
the existence of a group of people who actively burn books, even though
evidence is difficult to produce in support
of the latter line of argument. We can talk of a literary patronage that
supports certain kind of books, but again
there is no evidence that absence of patronage blocks literary production
of a different kind of books effectively.
We have very little understanding of how, during Nannaya's time, a book was
circulated, disseminated, and promoted.
Who were the readers/listeners? How large a population was it? How
influential?
Meanwhile mouthing simple notions like Arudra does helps little to
understand why Nannyya has such sustained
literary stature among kavya poets in Telugu, nor why he is viewed to be
such a great poet in general.
Arudra falls into the same trap that most modern critics of Telugu have
fallen -- of confusing literature with
ideologies and social movements.
Only one critic, Viswanatha Satyanarayana, tried to analyze Nannaya on
literary terms. His
Nannayyagaari Prasannakathaakalitaarthayukti is worth reading, badly
printed as it is.
vnr
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
lylayer
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "V.Narayana Rao" <vnrao@w...>
wrote:
>
> Only one critic, Viswanatha Satyanarayana, tried to analyze Nannaya
on
> literary terms. His
> Nannayyagaari Prasannakathaakalitaarthayukti is worth reading,
badly
> printed as it is.
>
> vnr
Appreciate your post.
May be I understand a little better why విశ్వనాథ appeared as
నన్నయ to స్రీ స్రీ in what he called as a అతివాస్తవిక రచన
which according to him is the very first attempt of such style in
telugu.
I will quote - Well! No -let me translate two paragraphs of Sri Sri
for rb readers, for fun. ( no malice of course ) It is a piece called
మాటల మూట from ఖడ్గస్రిస్టి
Sack of words (Title)
One fine Friday ( oh! how good it is!) I just bundlled up my language
and threw the sack on my back, and have my dog follow me. The sun was
shining. The flowers were smiling. ( opening paragraph )
Lo! and behold! Viswanadha appeared. He was in the attire of Nannaya.
I wished him. He did not believe me. he said 'open that bundle.' I
said 'Why don't you change your attire.' he said 'No'. I said 'You
have to'. While we are having this big fight, Rukmini nadha sAstri
came. He was in his own attire. He came as himself. He said " I know
what is in that bundle. It has only two letters( aksharAlu ). Only
two. No more. they are - Sri Sri!" I was so surprised. Surprised
that I was carrying only myself all this time. (closing paragraph).
Regards
lyla.
P.S: I will leave it to VNR garu and rbites - to make all the
comments. ( including my translation skills.) :-)
Friends, if you are wondering why so many posts from lyla, i declared
today as rbday for myself. No pressure on others to respond at all.
thanks.
From viplavreddy@y... Thu Oct 21 14:33:22 2004
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From: "viplavreddy" <viplavreddy@y...>
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Subject: Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
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--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "ari_sitaramayya" <ari@O...>
wrote:
> (master poet, creditable job) for his poetry. With apologies to
VNR
> garu, it looks to me that nannaya would have been a great poet if
he
> wasn't a vedist, brahminist and dharmasastrist.
>
> master poet, creditable job) for his poetry. With apologies to VNR
> garu, it looks to me that nannaya would have been a great poet if
he
> wasn't a vedist, brahminist and dharmasastrist.
I understood Sri VNR with a slight difference.
(a) If Sri VNR were to agree Nannaya to be a great poet, he would be
basing that on the fact that he wrote independently of his beliefs.
If he wrote about the 'vedist etc.,' beliefs he is still acting
outside of his personal belief system, which could be different from
what he wrote about;
(b) IF Nannaya believed and wrote about his personal beliefs as
a `vedist, brahminist and dharmasaastrist' then Nannaya does not get
a pass as a great poet, because he loses the balance needed, as per
Sri VNR. Not the otherway around as said above.
All he is saying is if you are a 'believer' then it is impossible
for you to be independent. Recall his comments on Raavi Sastri - to
paraphrase, 'when he wrote, he was not a Marxist - if he was, then
he could not be a great writer'.
Now do we agree?
thanks & regds,
-viplav-
PS. this thread has been a run away train. I hope Sri Velcheru at
the end of the semester not only will grade us but will provide a
report card along with a fat bill. It's a great ride though, I must
admit.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
lylayer
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, Velcheru Narayana Rao
<vnrao@w...> wrote:
>
>> That is the reason why a good work of literature outlasts its
immediate
> "purpose,"
> >
> Gurajada may have "intended" his play to work in support of social
reform
> against the "evils" of the society.
> But what he actually did is quite the opposite and far more
profound.
>
> vnr
>
>
I loved this post. it is right after my heart.
I want to talk a little bit along the same lines.
Another play wright we can use as an example is Bernard shaw, who
wrote about 50 plays over a span of 50-60 years.
His 'Pygmalion" was intended to be a didactic work where by he aimed
to teach the importance of phoenetics, reformed spelling. He also
wanted to poke fun at the social strata in london society in the
early 20th century. ( interestingly gurajada also has language and
social reform as the two reasons for his play.)
however the intent of Shaw's play really was never realised. the
immense success of the play was because of its unusual plot, the
superb scenes, the wonderfully comical and unique dialogue, the
lovable and memorable characters, the over all wit and the satire -
same case with Gurajada's work.
Both writers had observed many human beings and had immense joy about
the varied rogue/rascal traits in many men and women. That is what
spilled into their writing and that is what makes people continue to
laugh each time they open the book or watch the play/movie.
Who cares about their original motives to change things. I don't.
I will stop here.
regards
lyla.
P.S:I don't know if a comparitive study /essay was done on Gurazada
and Shaw. But if VNR thinks it is a good idea I will be happy to work
with him. If any research student wants to take up this project it is
fine too. Thanks.
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
wrote:
>
> The proof in these matters is not really discovered by one person.
> If you are looking for a good proponent of these concepts, the
> theory of self selection and commonization of tastes is dealt by
> Amos Tversky. You may refer to his works with Daniel Kahneman.
> Please be prepared for some probability theory though.
Thanks for the info. Often, difficulty lies not in concepts, but in
applying. While I am prepared to handle probability theory, I am not
sure if I am prepared to accept all the hypotheses and assumptions
made, even before the probability theory is begun to be applied. The
rub is in those details. And as I did not read it, I reserve my
right to limit my responses and disagreements to only the posts
here, where I specifically furnished examples where I disagreed.
Also, in the same post where you made that assertion, you also write
and I quote, guilty of out-of-context:
> In fact, even in literature, there are more people with better
> tastes than before.
So the concept couldn't hold itself through the length of a single
RB post - yours! :-)
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From paalana@y... Thu Oct 21 10:10:14 2004
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From: Narasimham Paranandi <paalana@y...>
Subject: Re: [racchabanda] Re: telugu pErlu - tanikeLLa bharaNi
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lylayer <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
> Shocked!
>Could he have seen 'dandeloins' instead of daffodils?
>regards
>lyla
Oh! No! There are like apples vs. pine apples. For "Daffodils" we are having a debate whether to choose between నార్శి పుష్పం or నార్శి పూలు or నార్సి పువూ. Don't even think about coming up with a Telugu Name for డందెలిఒన్.
Actually, the English name "Dandelion" originated from the French name "dent de lion" - because the leaf looks like the tooth of a lion. I saw a Telugu Equivalent in a book for that - సింహధణ్స్ట్రి or something like that. Srinadh gAru! Look at this Telugu Equivalent for Dandelion coined by a Telugu Wordsmith.
Lyla gAru! Simply say "siMhaM pannAku" for Dandelion if the Telugu itch bothers so much. But please don't make the reader fall a prey to సింహధంస్ట్రి.
Regards
--pAlana
Velcheru Narayana Rao
Individual beliefs are rarely a system. We believe in many things often
self-contradictory. Writers are not different. What they claim to believe
is not always the same as what they end up writing. Meaning of any good
writing does
avowed intentions. Sources of creativity are often unknown to the very
person who does
the creative work.
That is the reason why a good work of literature outlasts its immediate
"purpose,"
If you take an obvious example: Kanyasulkam is still a great work, in a
society where there are
no child marriages, no bride-price, no courtesans, and even the language
used in it is no
more spoken.
Gurajada may have "intended" his play to work in support of social reform
against the "evils" of the society.
But what he actually did is quite the opposite and far more profound.
vnr
viplavreddy
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "lylayer" <lylayfl@a...> wrote:
>
> Friends, if you are wondering why so many posts from lyla, i
declared
> today as rbday for myself. No pressure on others to respond at
all.
Why would I be pressurized even if you were to declare it as rbweek
for youself. Keep'em coming. I mean those translations from Sri
Sri.
I wish for you to get hold of some of live revolutionary writers as
well, they are more fun besides why bother dead poets, when there
are plenty living ones you can translate from?
always appreciating a fresh air -
rgds, viplav
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/
srini_nagul
--- In racch...@yahoogroups.com, "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
wrote:
> It is the curse being born a telugu.
It is better if one speaks for one self. I sympathise with
anyone Telugu or non-Telugu, for feeling so and low.
> We are the slaves of our memories.
No, we are not. Banish the thought and you wouldn't be either.
I also would like to be enlightened about who the "masters" of
memories are, and where can they be found.
> When we sing "dESa bhaashalandu telugu lessa", we don't even get a
> sneaking suspecion that we may be wrong.
So I pray to be told what is the "right". What is wrong in having
pride in one's heritage, language and culture, as long as it
does not denigrate or denounce any other? Among all the
grand-mothers in the world, if I say my illiterate grand-mother is
the greatest and I am proud of her, it only conveys my regards and
feelings, isn't it?
> Strange as it may seem, we find poetry even in the mundane
> words of the language. The odd jumble of words trigger
> associations. Heck, we even look for and find poetry in
> dubbed songs. Yes, it is a curse. There is no escape.
That I respect fully. So the "curse" must be in that "looking"
and that "finding" only.
> A friend of mine asked me, "aren't you proud of being born a
> Telugu"? Being proud of an accident of birth? హథ
> విధీ! But, is there something I would miss if I were born
> elsewhere?
> Perhaps nothing.
I respect this too- some one's personal opinion can be anything,
including nothing. May be that friend can tell if it is proved that
birth is by accident? My Science teacher taught, there is nothing
called "accident" and birth is in fact the first victory of anyone,
winning the race against all the sperms to reach the egg!
> There is equally great literature all over. There is no unique
> Telugu genius that transcends time and space. [I think of Thomas
> Mann, Shakespere, Dostovesky here].
Firstly, this is out of line to the thread's title as it draws in
pre-Nobel era luminaries. Secondly, who gave the verdict and to
whom that Thomas Mann, Shakespeare, Dostovesky transcended time and
space? Is this statement made in time/space or beyond time/space?
> There is no unique Telugu intellect that captures the
> times and mores so well that they offer a deep perspective.
> [I think of Charles Dickens, Jane Austen here].
Something to consider is, if every intellect captures the times
and mores, may be that wouldn't be so unique after all. Telugu
intellects pondered and propounded something profounder.
I would also say, the cognoscenti and fans of Dickens or Jane
Austen, if not cannot, definitely did not, yet even begin to fathom
the genius of Telugu intellects. While many so called English
literates cannot recall and haven't read Dickens/Austen or even
Shakespeare, the species is not yet completely extinct, where
so called Telugu illiterates recite with ease the works of
Telugu writers. Only words from the depths of the writer can engage
the depths in others. And in this, the Telugu intellects achieved
stupendous heights with their depths, that their works were
preserved and propagated not by the pages of the books, but by the
lips and hearts of many.
> As I said before, I have seen the moment of greatness
> flicker. All too briefly, but I did. But then, is it my
> imagination?
May not be imagination. Without eye-glasses, sometimes I also see
things flicker. If commending Telugu works (including
*specifically* pre-Nobel writers too) as the greatest and perfect
is to be blind to any other, so too condeming all Telugu works is
to be blind to it.
Regarding post-Nobel writers and their inability to achieve
Nobel laurels, I share the angst and lament too, but I will never
consider it "curse" to be born as Telugu. On the contrary, I am
grateful and even proud. Why? Being Telugu does not deprive me
of reading all the writers mentioned/lauded here, but it also
enables me to partake the beauty, majesty, wisdom and unparalleled
heart-touching word-paintings of Nannaya, Pothana, Vemana, DhUrjaTi
and many others. The unique and unparalleled genius of Tirupati
Venkata Kavulu, Kappurapu Kavulu to Subbanna SatAvadhAni et.al
who composed poems under the gun amidst noisy clamour, where *some*
of the poems excel in their beauty even those written at leisure,
is only something a Telugu can perform and outperform. Being a
Telugu only adds, not substracts.
Regards
-Srinivas Nagulapalli
From rama@k... Wed Oct 13 23:22:03 2004
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From: "Ramarao Kanneganti" <rama@k...>
Subject: Re: [racchabanda] Re: Why no Telugu Nobels?
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After watching the debates, I have come to appreciate the power of context
free quotes, but I trust that people here will read the context and the
statements fully.
Yes, it is a curse to be born Telugu. Or German. Or Swahili. [Lest people
should think that I singled out only these languages, it means "for all x,
where x is a culture/language, it is a curse to be born x"]. The curse is
that it inherently colors our impressions, creating a context from which we
can never escape. We justify our choices under the name of "justifiable
pride in one's own culture". The premise of deconstruction is to escape from
the center to understand things from other positions. We are bound by what
we are conditioned to like.
Of course, is it dangerous? Not particularly.
Then again, if the greatness of a work is measured by how illiterates can
recite poems, all I can say is look at nursery rhymes!
The greatness of a work is difficult to measure, I concede. Though, I am
mystified why the fans of Dickens cannot fathom Telugu intellect. I can
safely say that I rather be a fan of Dickens than consider Tirupati Venkata
Kavulu as the epitome of poetic excellence.
I am not sure if you understood the meaning behind "moment of greatness
flicker". Incidentally, it too is from a poet, nobel prize winning, called
"T.S. Eliot". It meant despite all the things, I do see flashes of genius,
but nothing consistent enough for me champion it. Since I cannot escape my
context, am I imagining the greatness, or is it really there?
Well, there is a reason why nuanced writing is not popular in AP. Blame the
readers!
--
Rama
Courtesy: http://www.kanneganti.com/