ICTR&D Funda

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Jamal Shamsi

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Jul 7, 2010, 1:57:53 PM7/7/10
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6 Directors of ICTR&D , Plus Top man of HEC Sohail Naqvi have been’REMOVED’ after dispute with Lateef Khosa

Inspirex

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Jul 8, 2010, 12:54:56 AM7/8/10
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The govt is hijacking control of funds that are not taxpayers money.

Interestingly, Mr. Khosa argues as to why the ICTR&D fund and USF should be run by people who are remnants of Musharraf's era.
What he forgets, is that the 26-30 bn funds he wants control of, are also remnants of Musharraf's era. And they they are not tax payers funds at all.

His opinion of an able funds manager and administrator of an R&D + remote communications project is none other than his son in law.

Imtiaz

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Jamal Shamsi <jamal....@gmail.com> wrote:

 

6 Directors of ICTR&D , Plus Top man of HEC Sohail Naqvi have been’REMOVED’ after dispute with Lateef Khosa

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Saqib Ilyas

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Jul 8, 2010, 1:31:44 AM7/8/10
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All I can see is http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=29922, which mentions that the PPP is pressing Javiad Leghari to go and that he has declined. Do you have a credible source for this? Sohail Naqvi is a rather useful person to have at HEC.

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Jamal Shamsi <jamal....@gmail.com> wrote:

 

6 Directors of ICTR&D , Plus Top man of HEC Sohail Naqvi have been’REMOVED’ after dispute with Lateef Khosa

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Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
Lahore University of Management Sciences

tenveer

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Jul 8, 2010, 1:56:25 AM7/8/10
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Jamal Shamsi

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Jul 8, 2010, 2:23:45 AM7/8/10
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I got the news from my contacts at 4PM Wednesday  - and It was reported on 8 AM news @ DAWN Thursday

Ammar Faheem

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Jul 8, 2010, 2:42:59 AM7/8/10
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On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Saqib Ilyas <msa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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Best Regards
Ammar Faheem
http://www.ammar360.com

Adnan Zafar Khawaja

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Jul 8, 2010, 1:26:26 PM7/8/10
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Is there anything we can do to put an end to this anarchy???

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Jamal Shamsi <jamal....@gmail.com> wrote:

 

6 Directors of ICTR&D , Plus Top man of HEC Sohail Naqvi have been’REMOVED’ after dispute with Lateef Khosa

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misbaha...@googlemail.com

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Jul 9, 2010, 7:28:48 AM7/9/10
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No one questions the unbridled abuse of powers from the Directors of
ICT R&D Fund.
I had written a few weeks ago on this as well, [June 01, thread title
'Claim to Fame of Pakistan']

http://groups.google.com/group/telecom-grid-pakistan/browse_thread/thread/1fd16092f0dac162/2f1e6eb4789143d5?lnk=gst&q=foss+#2f1e6eb4789143d5

The only question I want ICT R&D Fund Directors to answer is, why is
it that all the proposals from Islamabad / Lahore based Institutes
get funded so swiftly, but none from Sind?
With power comes immense responsibility. Those Fund Directors were
clearly abusing their powers, approving only handpicked institutes.
Even they gave money to Microsoft to use it for their marketing.

ICT RnD Fund required that the proposal be a joint venture between
industry & academia. The Islamabad based institutes easily fooled (if
they really needed to) by creating on paper /ghost companies to show
'industrial affiliation' with those projects. Indeed, they were all
university professors of Islamabad abusing the fund. If those
companies really existed, I need to know what business were/are they
doing? How were they paying salaries to their employess, as ICT Fund
allowed a %age of salary (based upon time they invested in project).
So if someone from industry claimed he was giving 50% of his time to
that project, how was he getting the rest of 50% of salary, & what
indeed he was doing in the rest of the 50% of his time,considering
that no one outside the university ever knew the existence of that
company, hence no sales-no salaries.

If you say that those industry people were good enough to live with
that 50% of salary, then I must question the reason that company was
opened. You say,'it was created to pursue that nice research proposal.
Once the proposed product would get completed, they would have
regained all that money they sacrificed by selling that product'. As a
matter of fact, this is really what should be going on. But is there
any single approved proposal on ICT RnD Fund list that has/will made/
make money? Did any of the approved proposals ever brought in sales? I
am talking strictly about sales.....

Probably there was one proposal, but it was withdrawn as it was
submitted from Sind!

Almost all the proposals say, 'after the completion of project, we
will gift it to the telecom industry as open source'. Good, but plz
dont use Nation's money for your bread. Do make alot of FOSS, fill the
sourceforge space, make everything free & open, 'laiken apney kharchey
pe'! If you use ICT RnD fund, you must repay to the nation in the form
of making sellable product. Generate long term jobs for local
talent,if you
make ................................................... :) I already
have written about that in above link. Those islamabad based
professors were using it as a source of extra income, had long teams
of 12 or even more members, no one from the ICT Review team objected
over such huge teams, but they did object to long timelines over
proposal submitted from Sind, just because the team was lean. Neither
they ever asked the teams of industry side how much experience they
had in industry (most of them were/are again, university people who
have never worked in local telecom industry).

One more point that I need to answer, which was raised by Ashiq Anjum
in the above shared thread. 'Most of the academic projects in top
notch universities are released as
open source and this is increasingly becoming a practice now.'
Well dear, the academic projects are/were always for the public (even
100 years before this Open source term was invented), you call it open
source or not.All the academic findings of Civil engineering, Medicine
etc are submitted to public, without using the word 'Open source'. Did
any one charge me for using Thevenin Theorem, Norton Theorem? Simply
attaching the name of open source doesn't serve any purpose,(except
ofcourse leeching funds from ICT RnD Grant)

The ICT RnD Fund Directors should not just be fired, they should be
tried in court for abusing the fund & resources. They should be
charged for

1. Abuse of power & resources
2. Causing huge loss to national fund
3. Favouring their fellows using nation's money.



On Jul 8, 9:26 pm, Adnan Zafar Khawaja <adnan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there anything we can do to put an end to this anarchy???
>

Zaeem Arshad

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Jul 9, 2010, 10:25:54 AM7/9/10
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Dear Misbah,

Do you have substantial evidence to prove them in a court of law?
Latif Khosa's team may be interested in your version of the events. :)

Cheers

Zaeem

Ashiq Anjum

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Jul 9, 2010, 11:02:43 AM7/9/10
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Dear Misbah,

I do not want to discuss this topic endlessly but to my best
understanding ICT R&D fund is doing a great job. I should
explicitly disclose that I never submitted a proposal to
the fund as we have been targeting various other donor
agencies in Europe and UK. You will be justified in your
criticism if you can share:

1. A proposal was rejected by ICTR&D but was accepted in
another funding call of a different funding agency? In
this case I can blame the  ICTR&D fund, otherwise, there
may be  flaws in the proposal.

Sometimes a great idea may not be enough. A funding agency will
always look into the profile of the applicant before a grant is
approved (#more in step 2).

2.  What is the acceptance rate of the proposals submitted
to the  ICTR&D fund?

For your information, roughly five out of a hundred proposals
are supported by FP7 and EPSRC. Recently our two proposals were
rejected but we knew the issues behind the rejection and we
never blamed the funding agencies.

3. What is the demographic distribution of the funds? Do you
know that 80 percent of the research funds in UK/Europe and USA are
won by only 5 percent of their top tier institutions?

Funds should be clustered to people/institutions who can bring best
out of it. There may be only a few world class institutions in each
subject that should be supported to become centers of excellence.

4. In modern world, an all industry or an all academic proposal is
simply a failure. The funding agencies aim to bring the best minds
from academia and industry together to create maximum impact. Academic
partners are good in research, industrial parts should develop the
research in product and market it and this is their strength.

Without this, the Russia like model of research failed to make any impact
where there was no linkage between industry and academia. Both the open source
and patent based models are fine to me as soon as they can bring something
novel out of the investment. Academic partners may write papers and industrial
partners may trial out new products as both are contributing something to
the fabric of a society.

We need to think globally and follow best practices. The research funds are
hard to win but we should not lose heart and keep on looking around for various
sources of funding to investigate and explore the ideas of our interest that can
have some impact on the society.

Best Regards
Ashiq Anjum

misbaha...@googlemail.com

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Jul 9, 2010, 2:08:46 PM7/9/10
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Dear Zaeem,

Yes, I do have evidences, I wouldnt have said all this without knowing
it inside out; though I may not have the time to meddle into court
issues. The information can be easily obtained from the records of ICT
RnD Team, most of the info is available online.


Thanks,

On Jul 9, 6:25 pm, Zaeem Arshad <zaeem.ars...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Misbah,
>
> Do you have substantial evidence to prove them in a court of law?
> Latif Khosa's team may be interested in your version of the events. :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Zaeem
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 4:28 PM, misbahabdul...@googlemail.com
>
> <misbahabdul...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > No one questions the unbridled abuse of powers from the Directors of
> > ICT R&D Fund.
> > I had written a few weeks ago on this as well, [June 01, thread title
> > 'Claim to Fame of Pakistan']
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/telecom-grid-pakistan/browse_thread/th...

Adnan Zafar Khawaja

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Jul 9, 2010, 11:44:52 AM7/9/10
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I second Mr. Anjum's point of view that one cannot make a sweeping remark about the Directors being prejudiced against a set of institutions just because their proposals were rejected. I know it may create a bad feeling if some proposals are rejected more times than not. Perhaps it could be recommended that the process of approval and rejection can be made very transparent so as to dispel the notion of favourism etc. Even so, this issue cannot possibly be compared to gravity of the situation arisen by blatant violation of rule of law through whimsical management of the ICTFunds as exhibited by the current Chairman.

Regards,
Adnan

misbaha...@googlemail.com

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Jul 9, 2010, 2:04:08 PM7/9/10
to Telecom Grid Pakistan
Dear Ashiq,

Sorry, but 'your best understanding' is incorrect. ICT RnD Fund has
failed in the objectives it was created for. Check out the talk of
Jehan Ara with Dr Qasim Sheikh, aired over CIO webstudio.

ICT RnD Fund of Pk differs vastly from the european donor agencies.
The objectives & requirements are different. Hence it makes no sense
to compare the two agencies, & similarly its wrong saying that if the
proposal was accepted by some other agencies, ICT RnD may be
incorrect, et al.
The only proper way to judge if a proposal was correctly funded is to
check if it fulfills the requirements of the fund/grant. So, a
'research for the sake of research' may easily get funds from some
European donor agency, but its inappropriate for the ICT RnD Fund as
it doesnt fit the requirements. This is indeed what you said in point
4, sounds like you agree with me :)

Finally, if you or anyone wants to challenge me in real sense, plz
answer the questions I raised.

1. Why all the proposals from Islamabad/Lhr got so swift action? While
the proposals from Sind, which fulfilled the requirements more than
any other proposal from Islamabad/Lhr, took 8 months with 'still
approval pending', after which the applicant decided to withdraw the
application for grant.
If you want to compare the competence of Sind universities, let me
know. But be prepared for considerably informed response. (Some one
said, 'sounds like a trap') You may not be in a good position to
challenge me, as I have been quite closely connected with academia :)

2. What were/are (will be) those companies associated with Islamabad/
Lahore based universities doing in business. How are they surviving/
will survive without any sales for so long?

3. Why the innovations of Medicine/ Civil engineering etc donont need
any qualifiers as 'Open source', 'Free' but still serve the public
times better than FOSS? Why doesnt the ICT RnD grants team (or your
honorable European donor agencies) ask Actix, Aircom & Ericsson to
open source their tools & hence serve the humanity, or else ban their
usage in Pakistan/Europe?

4. Did any product funded by ICT RnD Grants ever make any sales? If
no, this must question the credibility of the Directors. The agency
has been there for quite some time now.

Plz dont ask further unless you answer the above questions.

Thanks for your concern & time.
> http://groups.google.com/group/telecom-grid-pakistan/browse_thread/th...

bstr...@gmail.com

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Jul 9, 2010, 11:01:40 AM7/9/10
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I 200% agree to Misbah's look at the situation. The directors' accountability is in order before any one else is held for misuse of power let alone the minister.


I would recomend that as a subsequent step Minister IT&T should ask FIA to investigate these irregularities exercised by the dismissed directors. They should not be let off the hook this plainly.


Thanks.



***Persona BlackBerry***

Ahmad Nadeem Syed

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Jul 10, 2010, 1:15:57 PM7/10/10
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It is pitty that this forum of professionals is being used for provincialism.
 
We must discourage this practice.
 
Regards

Wahaj us Siraj

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Jul 10, 2010, 2:50:46 AM7/10/10
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We'd have been glad had Khosa ordered an independent inquiry into the
alleged "corruption" by the Directors and then taken action on the
basis of that report. Please also keep in mind that the fund in not
operated by tax payers money but by revenue share of telecom operators
including my company. So if something has been going wrong for a long
time, it must have been telecom operators that would be worried about
the situation. People in industry very well know the reputation of the
most of the Board Directors vis-a-vis Latif Khosa. I still welcome
anyone bringing the allegations of corruption against board members in
front of an independent inquiry team or a court of law.

Kind regards....Wahaj

On Jul 9, 8:01 pm, bstrea...@gmail.com wrote:
> I 200% agree to Misbah's look at the situation. The directors' accountability is in order before any one else is held for misuse of power let alone the minister.
>
> I would recomend that as a subsequent step Minister IT&T should ask FIA to investigate these irregularities exercised by the dismissed directors. They should not be let off the hook this plainly.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ***Persona BlackBerry***
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "misbahabdul...@googlemail.com" <misbahabdul...@googlemail.com>
>
> Sender: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 04:28:48
> To: Telecom Grid Pakistan<telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: ICTR&D Funda
>
> No one questions the unbridled abuse of powers from the Directors of
> ICT R&D Fund.
> I had written a few weeks ago on this as well, [June 01, thread title
> 'Claim to Fame of Pakistan']
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/telecom-grid-pakistan/browse_thread/th...

Wahaj us Siraj

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Jul 11, 2010, 7:06:13 AM7/11/10
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Also, if Board members have done alleged corruption, then why not all
10 Board members have been removed? It's not rational to assume that
only six directors from private sector/academia were responsible for
alleged corruption while others had no role. Four members from
Government's side are still on the BoD of the R&D Fund. These include
Chairman PTA, Additional Finance Secretary, Member Telecom MOIT and
Secretary IT. So the message is quite clear. Only those directors who
were resisting Khosa's designs have been removed while others are
still on board.

Kind regards....Wahaj

Saqib Ilyas

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Jul 10, 2010, 1:58:18 AM7/10/10
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Misbah
Please read http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/05/secret-lives-of-professors.html. A Harvard computer science faculty member says he spends about 40% of his time writing funding proposals. He mentions that only 6 out of 31 of his proposals were accommodated by NSF.
Please give up on this rotten Sindh vs Punjab argument. Personally, I know of only maybe 4 or 5 professors in Karachi who could probably write a "good" proposal. I also know for a fact that with the type of administrative (read clerical) work that they do, they will never be able to write one. I also know for a fact that the number of faculty member who could write a good proposal in "your" Lahore/Islamabad institutes is much higher. Some of these guys have little administrative responsibilities, thanks to ex forces guys at the top. Sometimes these faculty members do write a good proposal. There is not a single faculty member at the CS department of a (your) Lahore based university that I am studying at, who has not had more ICT proposals rejected than accepted (despite them being good researchers and good proposal writers). Note that I know people first hand at more Karachi based institutes than I do at Lahore/Islamabad, so I do know what I am talking about.
So, to summarize, the lack of ICT funding to your Sindh based institutions is primarily due to lack of good proposal writers at those institutes. Furthermore, even if those institutes won more proposals than Lahore/Islambad based institutes the outcome of the projects would at best be no better than the present. Similar workforce is available across my Pakistan.
Concerning the failure of these projects, what fraction of projects in a software house are a success? We have humiliating figures worldwide. Are they all incompetent?
Instead of whining about the Lahore/Islamabad institutes winning grants, it is time that your Sindh based institutes take proposal writing seriously and try to seriously locate the reason why other institutes are winning the proposals.
As for any industry-impractability of the outcome of these projects, I have already written in an earlier thread that the onus for changing the situation lies on the industry practitioners, and will not say any further in this thread.
Thanks and best regards

Adnan Zafar Khawaja

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Jul 11, 2010, 8:08:03 AM7/11/10
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This is the first time we're hearing issues about irregularities of the directors. The timing of this and the circumstances seem to be politically motivated. An independent judicial inquiry would clarify things as well as about the actions of the "honorable" minister.  

Jamal Shamsi

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Jul 11, 2010, 9:30:16 AM7/11/10
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I believe it is all mudslinging and simply an effort to justify removal.

-----Original Message-----
From: telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:telecom-gr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Wahaj us Siraj
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:06 PM
To: Telecom Grid Pakistan
Subject: Re: ICTR&D Funda

bstr...@gmail.com

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Jul 10, 2010, 2:09:42 PM7/10/10
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This is absolutely unfair by the board in not giving equal reperesentation to all corners. The pity is not how the forum is being used, the pity is when educated people like you take sides of something that is running in clear violation. Where is the representation from Fronteir? Sindh? Balochistan?
 
I would again recomend that Federal Investigation Agency a sub of Interior Ministry should get involved immediately, scrutinize these fired people and take them to task for authority abuse. If I was the Minister in Khosa's place I would have not ended the story here and would have gone till their careers are completely finished.
 
Thanks.

Fawad Niazi

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Jul 12, 2010, 10:08:44 AM7/12/10
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By the way! i am Pakistani :(

I am against declaring myself from any one specific province as if we would be treating members as Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi or KP (NWFP)...Please for Allah sake do not spoil this thread/group with ethnic or provincial politics...have faith in your self...opportunities can never be left for "losers" in the name of quota or given out of fear of being called "against some province".

Just imagine about the pity of those Pakistanis living in diff provinces whose parents and real relatives got "Shadat" in acheiving this home-land.

Just go ahead and spoil all things by putting label of province on your face to do the politics but go away from this group at least !

I plea for optimistic thoughts on this group amidst so many things to worry about.Pardon me for being emotional as our fore-fathers gave lot of sacrifices for this land-called PAKISTAN so do yours!

My two cents !!
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