What is Legal & Illegal in Call Centers in Pakistan

[Shariq Khan]

Dear Members,

I am associated with the call center industry in pakistan and provide software consultancy services to call centers. But i am always confuse about the PTA/PSEB policies for VoIP in call centers. Can anyone please answer correctly to clear my confusions.

• What type of ISPs allowed for VoIP traffic or all ISPs allowed?
• If only LDIs are allowed then where can i get the updated list of LDI operators?
• Does VoIP allow in call centers who has (PSEB) license and using SIP / Skype on Ptcl Broadband DSL?
• I heard that VoIP is not allowed on ADSL and allowed on SDSL (i.e expensive, i think). Is it true?
• Policies are same for Wimax, EvDO, Copper, Cable (coaxil) and Fiber or any difference like ADSL SDSL?
• Static IP always required for VoIP or not?
• Skype is included in (PTA) VoIP dictionary or not?
• If Skype has allowed for all, then is it necessary for call centers who are completely running on skype software?
• How a single person can do business legally in pakistan related to international call center for starting his working at home? does he also need call center license?
• How a call center agent can dial/receive calls legally from/to his USA office for doing work at home (in pakistan)? does he also need call center license?

Thank You.

Regards,

Shariq Khan

[Muhammad Shomail Haider]

I think PTA or PSEB themselves are quite confused, which makes everyone else confused and not being able to answer all you question. Even personal at ISPs are not able to answer, different people giving different information.

Personally speaking I think they are leaving loopholes to keep thing confused so than can make changes in their policies anytime without informing. I'm not sure if there is a complete document they have for it or not.

Regards,

Shomail 

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[Tee Emm]

This is quite a list of questions that you've asked Shariq.

In terms of what is okay and what is not, here are some points that are prevalent these days in the corridors of PTA: (Note that this is absolutely not necessary that all these dos-and-donts are legal and/or make sense. It is just what is going on. Towards the end, you'd also see some net-neutrality issues popping up where regular ISPs are banned from carrying [not originating or terminating - just carrying] the voip traffic. But I guess we will keep these fine discussion topics for a PTA 2.0 - if we see it in our lifetimes.).

1. Voice traffic is being detected at the international gateways. PTA has placed commercial systems for this and have consultants on-board for this job. See previous discussions on TGP for some in-depth review of these systems. 
2. Voice traffic detection is done both at protocol and pattern level. Hence, it is product independent. Skype included. Pattern detection targets symmetry in the traffic and guesses that 'it must be voice' triggering 'investigations'.
3. Sustained voice traffic is actively curbed unless it is cleared by virtue of being in a white-list maintained by PTA for this purpose.
4. Voice traffic can be generated/received by licensed LL and LDI operators.
5. Voice traffic can be generated/received by Registered Call Centers.
6. Call Centers must be registered with PSEB to be considered legal.
7. Only LDI/LL operators can offer connectivity services that carry voice. This needs to be followed up to the cable/infrastructure level.
8. If there is any involvement of a simple/regular CNVS holding ISP anywhere in the equation, this arrangement is not allowed.
9. There are only x (I guess x = 16) licensed LDI operators in Pakistan at the time of this writing. Under the current rules, only these can provide voip services to end users/customers.
10. Infrastructure used to reach customers in #9 above must be either the LDI operator itself or a valid LL operator.
11. If any third party is used as a conduit to realize #9 or #10 above in between the arrangement, this is considered illegal and is not allowed.
12. Static IP is not required technically but since there is a holy whitelist that exists and valid Voip users would want a hassle free experience, they generally ask for a fixed IP address and their licensed provider then works to get the IP in the PTA's whitelist.
13. Well known voice ports are blocked at both LDI, LL and PTA's systems and allowed only for valid/cleared exceptions.
14. Skype traffic, due to its variable port assignments, keeps on working for end users/subscribers/ISP users but sustained usage of skype from an end user will raise the alarm at PTA's system and the service will experience disruption (and probably a query will be raised to the ISP by PTA to find out the 'culprit').
15. If a call center is licensed, I believe an all-skype solution  will work for them under the current PTA scheme of rules.

Hope this helps.

Tariq Mustafa

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Shariq Khan <shariqr...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Ghulam Mustafa]

Shariq,

Go ahead with Skype it's legal in Pakistan. you can probably use FreeSWITCH to create a skype to skype voice trunk between your US and PK servers :)

Ghulam Mustafa
cell: +92 333.611.7681
sip: cyre...@ekiga.net
mail: mustafa.pk@gmail.com
web: cyrenity.wordpress.com

[qasim...@gmail.com]

As far as i know and i may be wrong and please correct me if i am. You cannot use gateways i.e. convert VoIP traffic to any other form, if you are keeping VoIP as it is its legal. So skype, msn, google call etc all are legal.

Regards,
Qasim Ayyaz Khan

[Ashar Iqbal]

Agree with TM - PTAs rules don't seem to correlate too well with the
Law. However that is of little comfort if you have the police breaking
down your door.

On 11/11/10, Tee Emm <tariq....@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is quite a list of questions that you've asked Shariq.
>
> In terms of what is okay and what is not, here are some points that are
> prevalent these days in the corridors of PTA: (Note that this is absolutely
> not necessary that all these dos-and-donts are legal and/or make sense. It
> is just what is going on. Towards the end, you'd also see some
> net-neutrality issues popping up where regular ISPs are banned from carrying
> [not originating or terminating - just carrying] the voip traffic. But I
> guess we will keep these fine discussion topics for a PTA 2.0 - if we see it
> in our lifetimes.).
>
>

> 1. Voice traffic is being detected at the international gateways. PTA has

> placed commercial systems for this and have consultants on-board for this
> job. See previous discussions on TGP for some in-depth review of these
> systems.

> 2. Voice traffic detection is done both at protocol and pattern level.

> Hence, it is product independent. Skype included. Pattern detection
> targets symmetry in the traffic and guesses that 'it must be voice'
> triggering 'investigations'.

> 3. Sustained voice traffic is actively curbed unless it is cleared by

> virtue of being in a white-list maintained by PTA for this purpose.

> 4. Voice traffic can be generated/received by licensed LL and LDI
> operators.
> 5. Voice traffic can be generated/received by Registered Call Centers.
> 6. Call Centers must be registered with PSEB to be considered legal.
> 7. Only LDI/LL operators can offer connectivity services that carry

> voice. This needs to be followed up to the cable/infrastructure level.

> 8. If there is any involvement of a simple/regular CNVS holding ISP

> anywhere in the equation, this arrangement is not allowed.

> 9. There are only x (I guess x = 16) licensed LDI operators in Pakistan

> at the time of this writing. Under the current rules, only these can
> provide
> voip services to end users/customers.

> 10. Infrastructure used to reach customers in #9 above must be either the

> LDI operator itself or a valid LL operator.

> 11. If any third party is used as a conduit to realize #9 or #10 above in

> between the arrangement, this is considered illegal and is not allowed.

> 12. Static IP is not required technically but since there is a holy

> whitelist that exists and valid Voip users would want a hassle free
> experience, they generally ask for a fixed IP address and their licensed
> provider then works to get the IP in the PTA's whitelist.

> 13. Well known voice ports are blocked at both LDI, LL and PTA's systems

> and allowed only for valid/cleared exceptions.

> 14. Skype traffic, due to its variable port assignments, keeps on working

> for end users/subscribers/ISP users but sustained usage of skype from an
> end
> user will raise the alarm at PTA's system and the service will experience
> disruption (and probably a query will be raised to the ISP by PTA to find
> out the 'culprit').

> 15. If a call center is licensed, I believe an all-skype solution will

> work for them under the current PTA scheme of rules.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Tariq Mustafa
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Shariq Khan <shariqr...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Members,
>>
>> I am associated with the call center industry in pakistan and provide
>> software consultancy services to call centers. But i am always confuse
>> about
>> the PTA/PSEB policies for VoIP in call centers. Can anyone please answer
>> correctly to clear my confusions.
>>

>> - What type of ISPs allowed for VoIP traffic or all ISPs allowed?
>> - If only LDIs are allowed then where can i get the updated list of LDI
>> operators?
>> - Does VoIP allow in call centers who has (PSEB) license and using SIP

>> / Skype on Ptcl Broadband DSL?

>> - I heard that VoIP is not allowed on ADSL and allowed on SDSL (i.e

>> expensive, i think). Is it true?

>> - Policies are same for Wimax, EvDO, Copper, Cable (coaxil) and Fiber

>> or any difference like ADSL SDSL?

>> - Static IP always required for VoIP or not?
>> - Skype is included in (PTA) VoIP dictionary or not?
>> - If Skype has allowed for all, then is it necessary for call centers

>> who are completely running on skype software?

>> - How a single person can do business legally in pakistan related to

>> international call center for starting his working at home? does he
>> also
>> need call center license?

>> - How a call center agent can dial/receive calls legally from/to his

[Usman]

Dear Shariq, 

i was waiting for some one to answer here, Mr. Shomail Haider is right, there us GREY area.

As per my knowledge, find answers in Bold... ;-)

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Shariq Khan <shariqr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Members,

I am associated with the call center industry in pakistan and provide software consultancy services to call centers. But i am always confuse about the PTA/PSEB policies for VoIP in call centers. Can anyone please answer correctly to clear my confusions.

• What type of ISPs allowed for VoIP traffic or all ISPs allowed?

 Any ISP, all you need to get the IPs assigned to you white listed by PTA (You can do it your self or thru ISP, takes 1-3 days)

• If only LDIs are allowed then where can i get the updated list of LDI operators?

thru LDI / LL

• Does VoIP allow in call centers who has (PSEB) license and using SIP / Skype on Ptcl Broadband DSL?

in my experience PTA white list if you have PSEB licence, just go for it and dont ask more questions to them.

• I heard that VoIP is not allowed on ADSL and allowed on SDSL (i.e expensive, i think). Is it true?

Not true, nothing to do with ADSL, SDSL..bla bla 

• Policies are same for Wimax, EvDO, Copper, Cable (coaxil) and Fiber or any difference like ADSL SDSL?

All Same, all u need white listed IPs 

• Static IP always required for VoIP or not?

Yes: for white listing. 

• Skype is included in (PTA) VoIP dictionary or not?

huh ? 

• If Skype has allowed for all, then is it necessary for call centers who are completely running on skype software?

for 1-2 lines &%^%# ....       For more.. go for a right way. 

• How a single person can do business legally in pakistan related to international call center for starting his working at home? does he also need call center license?

not clear here, single skype session should not bug any one. 

• How a call center agent can dial/receive calls legally from/to his USA office for doing work at home (in pakistan)? does he also need call center license?

if you are terminating calls on IP, by passing LDI.. you need to have licence. 

Thank You.

Regards,

Shariq Khan

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[Ashar Iqbal]

The law, if I remember correctly, says that you need a licence if you
"provide" a telecom service., connect to a telecom device outside of
your own premises.

On 11/12/10, Usman <jat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Shariq,
>
> i was waiting for some one to answer here, Mr. Shomail Haider is right,
> there us GREY area.
> As per my knowledge, find answers in Bold... ;-)
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Shariq Khan <shariqr...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Members,
>>
>> I am associated with the call center industry in pakistan and provide
>> software consultancy services to call centers. But i am always confuse
>> about
>> the PTA/PSEB policies for VoIP in call centers. Can anyone please answer
>> correctly to clear my confusions.
>>

>> - What type of ISPs allowed for VoIP traffic or all ISPs allowed?
>>
>> *Any ISP, all you need to get the IPs assigned to you white listed by PTA
> (You can do it your self or thru ISP, takes 1-3 days)*
>
>>
>> - If only LDIs are allowed then where can i get the updated list of LDI
>> operators?
>>
>> *thru LDI / LL*
>
>>
>> - Does VoIP allow in call centers who has (PSEB) license and using SIP

>> / Skype on Ptcl Broadband DSL?
>>

>> *in my experience PTA white list if you have PSEB licence, just go for it
> and dont ask more questions to them.*
>
>>
>> - I heard that VoIP is not allowed on ADSL and allowed on SDSL (i.e

>> expensive, i think). Is it true?
>>

>> *Not true, nothing to do with ADSL, SDSL..bla bla *
>
>>
>> - Policies are same for Wimax, EvDO, Copper, Cable (coaxil) and Fiber

>> or any difference like ADSL SDSL?
>>

>> *All Same, all u need white listed IPs *
>
>>
>> - Static IP always required for VoIP or not?
>>
>> *Yes: for white listing*.
>
>>
>> - Skype is included in (PTA) VoIP dictionary or not?
>>
>> *huh ? *
>
>>
>> - If Skype has allowed for all, then is it necessary for call centers

>> who are completely running on skype software?
>>

>> *for 1-2 lines &%^%# .... For more.. go for a right way*.
>
>>
>> - How a single person can do business legally in pakistan related to

>> international call center for starting his working at home? does he
>> also
>> need call center license?
>>

>> *not clear here, single skype session should not bug any one. *
>
>>
>> - How a call center agent can dial/receive calls legally from/to his

>> USA office for doing work at home (in pakistan)? does he also need call
>> center license?
>>

>> *if you are terminating calls on IP, by passing LDI.. you need to
> have licence. *